And I sincerely doubt that any of them were actually making a living off of that band except maybe the lead whatever the fuck based on that. They probably all had some day jobs they had to do since the limited amount of money you make off a show doesn't split too well 26 ways. Amanda is trying to live off of her art and probably live comfortably, and goddammit as long as she's cheating her audience I really don't see how that's a problem. I guess you could condemn every musician who wants to make more off a show than the absolute bare minimum they need to live, but you'd be a fucking idiot for doing so.
She's helping save some money on her tour and giving her fans a chance to be a part of something that they'd all kill to do. How you assholes are turning this into her abusing her fans is fucking ridiculous. You should all be ashamed. I would love it if Arcade Fire came through town and asked for fans willing to come up on stage and play some percussion. I'd show up for free and be fucking thrilled to bang the shit out of their drums. Would that somehow be different?
You also assume that even paying a local horn/string player would have her go broke. Her tour is playing venues that can gorss upwards of $30,000 per night on ticket sales alone.
Are you saying that it's OK for AFP to pocket kickstarter money for unrelated lifestyle choices?
I think that using the money to pay rent/bills/flights incurred while focusing on creating a record while having no other source of income is fine because it is part of making the record. Paying the people that were working for her for those few months is acceptable as well.
I'm saying you have absolutely no authority on touring costs. You are speculating based on comparisons to other bands. The Kickstarter fund was not just for her tour--it was to produce the album, it was to manufacture all the special items she sent to her donors, it was for a lot of things. You're making a lot of character assassinations about a case that you know practically none of the financial details of and you're doing it for a fucking stupid reason to boot. The musicians she's having volunteer for these shows aren't totally ESSENTIAL. She could perform without them. But if she wants to ask volunteers to add to the value of her show in a way that the budget for her tour just doesn't allow, what the fuck is the problem?
WHAT ARE YOU DICKHEADS ANGRY ABOUT?
Would you say that Steve Albini knows a thing or two about recording, and/or touring? About the mysterious and unknowable costs of recording and touring?
I don't have authority, no, but like.... Palmer's playing the Fillmore when she comes to SF. There are ~50 shows scheduled at the Fillmore (it's a fairly big, really nice, historic theater here) and as far as I know Amanda Palmer is the sole artist out of those 50 who needs people to play for free in order to put on the show. Is it possible that she has these mysterious costs and really just can't possibly find a way to pay every member of the band, despite that the other 49 scheduled acts have somehow managed to make the funds work? Yes, but more likely she's either terrible with money or wants to get out of paying people when she can get them to work for free.Given that the typical budget for albums I work on is less than $10,000, you can take your pick of line-items in her budget, divide by ten and still have an order of magnitude worth of waste from my perspective. I haven't looked at the breakdown since I first saw it so don't quote me on it (haha, "don't quote me," I just said something funny), but I recall that she skimmed a couple hundred grand off the top for her pleasure prior to beginning to make the record. That alone is enough to make the record of your dreams a couple times over and seems like a straight-up "fuck you" to everybody who pledged money to the project.
It's crazy that I have to explain to you how ridiculous it is to blow a million dollars. More than a million dollars. Just say it out loud and think about how much fucking money a million dollars is. That's several really nice houses with a Jaguar in each garage. A lifetime's wages. It's just an incredible sum, enough to make a hundred records. Palmer had more than that at her disposal and now claims not to have enough left to pay musicians. To pay them for gigs she is also being paid to play. This coming from someone who already had a successful career before she had her audience begin paying all her expenses in advance. A millionaire pleading poverty and asking for additional charity. It's fucking ridiculous and it mocks all the bands who genuinely need their audience to help them conduct their business.
I'm saying that if she's willing to let amateur non-professional musicians who want to perform with her do so in exchange for beer and hugs and getting to hang out with a person they idolize so that she can make a little more money, she should be allowed to fucking go for it. 1.2 million from Kickstarter isn't exactly enough money to retire on. 10 percent gets taken right off the top, then half to taxes, then paying for all the recording and actual production of the merchandise that gets sent out to the people who donated to her campaign. The bitch has invested hours and hours of her life fostering a fiercely loyal group of devoted followers by constantly interacting with them and making herself personally accessible. It's finally actually paying off, and you're gonna begrudge her the right to make a couple hundred grand off an album release? Jesus Christ, fuck yourselves.
Hmm. You seem a bit heated.
Perhaps it's time for me to cool this conversation off.
I just don't get it. Filesharing has made it impossible to make money off record sales and rendered record labels that used to fund shit like tours obsolete. This chick found a way through delivering a personal relationship with her fanbase to actually make some money off a completely independently produced album and tour. She's trying to prove that if you take the time to actually establish a connection to your fans you can still be compensated well for being an artist. Rather than spend a bunch of money on putting up another three or four musicians in hotel rooms and paying for their travel and everything else, she decided instead to try and save some money by giving her fans--most of whom will not be professional musicians probably--to get up and play with her. She's not offering them any money 'cause, well, she doesn't have to and what if they're not really any good. The fans are happy to do it. She's proven you CAN be a profitable musician without any industry help. Why the fuck do you feel like you should begrudge her those profits if her fans feel lucky to get to play with her for beer and high-fives and the experience? What the fuck is it to you?
I got to attend one of her AFP house parties and it was great to see an artist so humble and connected with her fans. She is constantly video chatting with her fans, interacting with them. I feel like she worked really hard to develop a relationship with her fan base.
My bad, $35 is with fees. The tickets are indeed $25. Still, my point stands.
I don't see how it would be better to play with just the members she is currently touring with and exclude the fans that would love to come up and play strings and brass on a few songs (which aren't necessary for the show, but an addition that will enhance the audiences and the fans experience).
I think it would just be better if an act made sure to pay all of the people responsible for performing on a night when said act will be taking home a fair amount of money?
Fans getting an unprecedented chance to play with someone they idolize is a lot more interesting than a few traditional musicians getting a payday, ones that may not know or care about the artist in question. I think that artists in need of a more just compensation ought to be taking notes on this level of openness and fan inclusion.
And you all know this controversy is just going to inflame that us vs them mentality and make the fans latch onto her even harder. Imagine what she will be able to dump an obscene amount of money into after the next kickstarter.
12/16-18 Day for Night
you guys are funny. there's nothing wrong with having fans play. the only thing she did wrong was the way she presented it. after you've had an extremely successful fan-fuelled fundraiser you probably shouldn't talk about not being able to afford things. it may be true the kickstarter funds weren't enough to go far enough to afford all those extra touring musicians, but that still was not a tactful thing to say. "ugh! all your generosity only afforded me THREE diamond rings..."
Except that you assholes have no idea how much it cost her to make any of this shit that had to go out to the people who donated, or how much it cost to hire the touring musicians she did hire, or how much it costs to tour the fucking country period.
It's a tactless thing to say, definitely. But how much of the uproar has been over the lack of grace versus the act of having fans play for free?
12/16-18 Day for Night
In Atlanta she had two additional fans that volunteered one of which was considering driving to New Orleans on the 17th cuz he had such a great time. Interesting view points on both sides but in 2009 i allowed myself to be AFP's bitch and got painted with latex paint and was part of her "Amanda Fucking Palmer" people at the beginning of her show. It cost me a good 3 hours of my Coachella and you know what, was worth every minute of it and I would do it again in a heart beat. It was damn nice that after the show she hung out and talked with us after doing a meet and greet for 1k plus people, was about 145 am at this point and she was pretty fucking awesome for doing so.
Whether you like her or not or her business practices the show was stellar and had a great mix of DD as well as AFP songs....the change up in "Miss me" is AWESOME. If she was playing closer by id definitely go again.
"The Coachella Valley wasn't always like this, there's been a great many changes made since I came here some 67 years ago"
All this AFP talk has got me wondering what Thom Yorke has to do with this. (I get it, but it took me a minute to get it).
the busy bee has no time for sorrow.
Well, she's paying them now.