Amanda Palmer and the GTO

[Sigur Ros Stache]

according to a conversation I had with her tonight after her show in Atlanta they are playing coachella next year. The show was amazingly great btw!

[BobCaygeon]

Good news. I missed her on account of a conflict last time.

[IceyHotshot]

Will she pay her musicians in more than hugs?

[sonofhal]

Will she stand there just repeating praise she's got off people like she does every few minutes on twitter?

[Kyliediscope]

Will she pay her musicians in more than hugs?

I honestly am rolling my eyes at everyone's reaction to this. She has a group of musicians she is traveling with that are paid. They play with her at every show. She is asking for volunteers for a few songs for a string section. Traveling with all those band members she needs for some of the songs would mean she'd have to charge probably double for tickets because currently they are only 25 a pop. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask if fans would like to come up and play a few songs with the band. How excited would everyone be if Radiohead said "we are adding a string section for a few songs and would like to ask volunteers to come practice the day of and perform on stage."

[amyzzz]

I have a friend who is auditioning to play violin for the Phoenix show.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

She raised more than a million bucks and still wants strangers to perform an integral part of her set for beer and hugs? that's insane.

I don't begrudge anyone who would volunteer but the same reason people volunteer is why this is a bad thing on her part. She's basically exploiting her fans because they're her fans and pocketing the money anyway.

Plus, fuck, I saw P-Funk and the Polyphonic Spree for ~$25 a ticket. They each had like 20 band members and managed to do it without raising a literal million dollars beforehand

[getbetter]

I read she raised 1.2 million to make that album and string section would of costed 35 thousand dollars to go on tour with her.I personally don't care too much because all of this could of been stop by her fans.Yet they support it seems .

[shakermaker113]

to say that she raised a million dollars is a little short sighted. much of that money immediately went back to fans as kickstarter prizes, she only took away some percentage of that to spend on her album & tour.

I do think it is a bit cheeky to be asking for more having so recently asked for so much. I think the dialogue that followed is healthy.

I like the idea of community contributing to shows, but I think that her choice of timing is poor. she could have done stripped down versions this tour (like every other band who can't afford a string section) and tried this experiment another time.

and I'm pretty sure p-funk has a bit more money behind him. venues probably go out seeking him and offering him larger paychecks up front knowing he will attract a decent crowd. it's not quite fair to compare a musical legend with decades of career behind him vs an artist with a few albums.

[Kyliediscope]

Tricks,

Read her breakdown of what she had to spend money on. Some of the prizes for the kickstarted included custom painted turntables! I also attended one of the AFP house parties because a friend of mine donated 5K to her album. She paid to fly out and had to put herself up in a hotel and rented a car.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...r/posts/232020

[Trick Loves The Kids]

That breakdown is really questionable. $15 to make and ship a CD? Her CD's on Amazon for $10, I assume that's not the deluxe version or whatever but CDs are cheap as fuck to manufacture if you're ordering 7,000 of them, $15 seems like an incredibly high estimate. All of the figures are fairly arbitrary, I mean she cuts off $250k to begin with just because which really begs the question of what she was going to do has she only raised her goal of $100k. I don't even really take issue with the Kickstarter though, let people give her money... my problem is with her asking musicians to pay for free when she's making money.

I don't like that people bring up community music and just playing for fun, I don't think it's applicable here. If she said "hey, I'm gonna be at this venue, bring your instruments and we'll jam" or "I'm playing a charity show and need backing musicians" this wouldn't be an issue whatsoever, it's that she's charging $25 bucks for a ticket and only paying some of the musicians she deems necessary to fulfill her artistic vision. And really, P-Funk might be an extreme example, but seriously... she wanted 100k, got almost 12 times that figure, and still can't work up a budget where she can pay all the musicians she requires for this show?

This is like the unpaid internship of the music world, which is to say that it's bad. By this logic Metallica can pay their roadies in autographs and David Guetta can pay his limo drivers in sweat-soaked towels, 'cause they're fans and they're just thrilled to be a part of it at all, right? And yeah, I can't blame the fans whatsoever, I blame her for thinking this was acceptable in the first place.

[IceyHotshot]

I think crowdsourcing is a pretty questionable practice (e.g. musician has fans compete to create a tour poster, gives the winner $200, makes 10x that on sales) and it's even worse when you pay them nothing. Add to that the fact that the kickstarter should have paid for this (what's more important? a ridiculous prize package or paying the people who make your shows possible) and it's garbage. I have never listened to Amanda Palmer and I will boycott.

My comment was meant to point out that she surely will get paid some nice sum to play two weekends of Coachella, and if she still doesn't pay her string sections, it doesn't say much about her integrity.

I like musicians who appreciate fans, not ones who feel entitled to them. The level of arrogance in suggesting working for hugs is also off the charts.

[sonofhal]

Amanda Palmer and the GTFO.

[IceyHotshot]

I hope Paul Tollett is paying her in hugs and cookies.

[RotationSlimWang]

... yeah, I would be so fucking angry if one of my favorite musicians let me get on stage and perform with them and didn't pay me for it.

Holy shit you people are assholes.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Inviting fans on stage and asking musicians to show up, rehearse, and perform with you for free are intensely different things.

Also beyond the money issue, the idea that her artistic vision involves musicians who learned the songs earlier that day seems kind of questionable.

[RotationSlimWang]

Most orchestras will practice entire symphonies for all of a few hours as rehearsal. She isn't holding a gun to their head. Most of these people would pay money to get to rehearse with her. I really don't see what the problem is.

[Kyliediscope]

That 15 dollar cd book is a 25 page art book, cd, and thank you card. I'd bet that does actually cost about 15 dollars to manufacture and ship.

[shakermaker113]

Also beyond the money issue, the idea that her artistic vision involves musicians who learned the songs earlier that day seems kind of questionable.

questionable why? pop/rock music is never that complex.

[bmack86]

Ok, does no one else think it's ridiculous that her "Prior-to-beginning" debt is $250,000? What the hell is she doing in 8 months time to accrue that level of debt. My problem is that she just seems to think that it's okay to use fan money and fan time if they're willing to give it, rather than trying to be more self-sufficient and work within her means. She really annoys me.

And basically that has to do with all the extravagance of the show. Maybe people who are really into that are willing to pay the extra money up front to have the experience later, but it all seems kind of bombastic, pompous and extravagant to me.

[amyzzz]

If the show is really that extravagant, I'm looking more forward to seeing her Saturday. (My brother bought me the ticket as a birthday present, I'm not really a fan, and I have not decided how I feel either way on this issue)

[bmack86]

Oh, I also thought it was ridiculous that she said she'd pay for strings in certain larger markets, because obviously those shows matter more.

[Kyliediscope]

Or maybe because larger markets sell more tickets and therefore have the revenue to allow her to pay those artists.

[amyzzz]

Ok, THAT is shitty because I know I am in a smaller market.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

I'm sure there are musicians who can nail the sections with 20 minutes of rehearsals but I think if you want a consistent level of quality you'd probably pay people and take them on tour with you instead of relying on strangers who learned the songs that afternoon. It's not even "hey, let's try something cool with this tour, strangers will be my backing band!" it's literally and explicitly "I need these musicians but according to my own math I can't afford to pay them so I'm going to ask them to work for free."

This isn't Ghostface bringing up a fan to do ODB's verse, this is Ghostface having one of his fans act as his DJ for no pay because he doesn't want to pay for one.

[IceyHotshot]

Ok, does no one else think it's ridiculous that her "Prior-to-beginning" debt is $250,000? What the hell is she doing in 8 months time to accrue that level of debt. My problem is that she just seems to think that it's okay to use fan money and fan time if they're willing to give it, rather than trying to be more self-sufficient and work within her means. She really annoys me.

And basically that has to do with all the extravagance of the show. Maybe people who are really into that are willing to pay the extra money up front to have the experience later, but it all seems kind of bombastic, pompous and extravagant to me.

I agree with all of this.

[RotationSlimWang]

I'm sure there are musicians who can nail the sections with 20 minutes of rehearsals but I think if you want a consistent level of quality you'd probably pay people and take them on tour with you instead of relying on strangers who learned the songs that afternoon. It's not even "hey, let's try something cool with this tour, strangers will be my backing band!" it's literally and explicitly "I need these musicians but according to my own math I can't afford to pay them so I'm going to ask them to work for free."

This isn't Ghostface bringing up a fan to do ODB's verse, this is Ghostface having one of his fans act as his DJ for no pay because he doesn't want to pay for one.

Every charity in the world should just go fuck themselves. How dare they ask people to work for free who want to do it. Cocksucking fucks, giving people the freedom to participate in a show if they want to.

It costs money to tour across the country. When you're already bringing a bunch of paid musicians with you and you had to record your album yourself and are doing all your own promotions, there are a lot of people to pay I imagine. If her math says that she won't be making as much as she feels she needs to off the smaller market shows (because they pay her less money) and her answer is to ask her fans to come up and play and they're not only willing but EAGER to do so, I don't see how any of you dumb cunts can possibly object to it.

[RotationSlimWang]

I'm glad that you all have such firmly held opinions on exactly how much it costs to record, promote, and tour throughout a country that you can have incredibly definite opinions about what is and what is not financially plausible. Please, enlighten me with your ridiculous speculations and the fiscal realities of other subject matters you know fucking nothing about.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

You sound mad.

I think Ms. Palmer should get in touch with Of Montreal, they are independent as fuck, do huge tours all over the country with crazy production and manage to do it without asking anyone to play for free or raising $1,000,000 beforehand.

[Kyliediscope]

I....
agree with Randy.