An Open Letter To Paul Tollet

[GuyInTucson]

So it's a bad idea, right?

Sports franchises and college athletic programs give first choice to season ticket holders because they are deemed as the most loyal. When postseason comes around, they are given the opportunity to buy before everyone else as well. Sometimes they are charged a premium to hold a seat or ticket "liscense". They are given a specific time to renew and if they don't, their ticket is thrown back into the system and it's up for grabs. This type of stuff happens everywhere.

[Goatchella]

Love you more....and I love everyone here. I want the same things you all want.

[Goatchella]

So it's a bad idea, right?

Sports franchises and college athletic programs give first choice to season ticket holders because they are deemed as the most loyal. Sometimes they are charged a premium to hold season tickets. They are given a specific time to renew and if they don't, their ticket is thrown back into the system and it's up for grabs. This type of stuff happens everywhere.

and???.....this isn't the NFL. This isn't a franchise sports team. you wanna donate ten million under the table I bet you can get whatever fucking djs you want and get the drink of choice at all the stands. You will for sure get tickets as well. for free.

like i says.....money talks.


i bet the owners of those teams aren't on a fucking forum calling all the shots based on what the drunk testosterone pumping fans want. Seriously. Bad angle there with the sports BS.

[ADGZ662]

We the ho's in this house
we the ho's in dis house
ho's in da haus,ho's in da haus
ho's,ho's,ho's

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

Don't discount the people on a message board. This isn't 1996 anymore. Part of what I do for a living requires my presence on a message board. I can't tell you how many times I have read someone say something to the effect of, "You're dumb if you think players / coaches / AD's / etc. read these boards".... and what they don't realize is that they actually do read the boards. A certain message board member on our site who I know is one of the primary reasons a certain now-NBA basketball player received a scholarship offer from UA several years back. This place may be full of "mouth-breathers" to you, but if you think people's voices on certain message boards aren't heard then you are sadly mistaken.

Funny, my company does the same thing, it dedicates people to watch all sorts of social media (message boards, facebook, twitter, etc). One bad comment and we have someone from corporate sending you an email asking what is wrong and what we can do to fix it.

[Robin]

So it's a bad idea, right?

Sports franchises and college athletic programs give first choice to season ticket holders because they are deemed as the most loyal. When postseason comes around, they are given the opportunity to buy before everyone else as well. Sometimes they are charged a premium to hold a seat or ticket "liscense". They are given a specific time to renew and if they don't, their ticket is thrown back into the system and it's up for grabs. This type of stuff happens everywhere.

I wouldn't mind paying a little extra "premium" if it'll guarantee me a pass for the following year(s).

[Mr. Dylanja]

So it's a bad idea, right?

Sports franchises and college athletic programs give first choice to season ticket holders because they are deemed as the most loyal. When postseason comes around, they are given the opportunity to buy before everyone else as well. Sometimes they are charged a premium to hold a seat or ticket "liscense". They are given a specific time to renew and if they don't, their ticket is thrown back into the system and it's up for grabs. This type of stuff happens everywhere.

There he goes again...

[amyzzz]

crying has never skinned a cat.

I disagree. I cried all day about the 2 pass limit for the same address, then GV clarified that by saying you can use 2 different cards with 2 different names at the same address. FIXED.

[SoulDischarge]

I can't believe you guys are engaging Goatchella. Maybe you're all as stupid as he claims you are.

Emphasis.

[amyzzz]

Goddamnit.

[GuyInTucson]

There he goes again...

Shut the fuck up, Dylan.

[Goatchella]

luls......happy friday.

Hope you guys fix the things that torture your coachella experience.

I have a festival to attend...that no one cares about. It was easy to get tickets. I don't expect any special attention for being a return attendee. Love and Light. =)

[GuyInTucson]

At first he was like....

I want the same things you all want.

But then he was like....

I don't expect any special attention for being a return attendee.

[Neighborhood Creep]

This is one of ny top 3 favorite Goatchella meltdowns

[algunz]

I don't care about anybody but me and my husband. Paul are you listening? PM me and I'll pay big for a lifetime pass.

[Goatchella]

This is one of ny top 3 favorite Goatchella meltdowns

wait till you see me this weekend buddy.

Epic Melt down

[Wheres the beef?]

So it's a bad idea, right?

Sports franchises and college athletic programs give first choice to season ticket holders because they are deemed as the most loyal. When postseason comes around, they are given the opportunity to buy before everyone else as well. Sometimes they are charged a premium to hold a seat or ticket "liscense". They are given a specific time to renew and if they don't, their ticket is thrown back into the system and it's up for grabs. This type of stuff happens everywhere.

Season tickets are not something teams offer to people because they are "loyal". Sports teams make their money primarily from ticket sales, yes? Well when a team isn't doing that great, they don't sell out every game. If a team isn't selling out every game, their income can vary dramatically. This uncertainty makes it harder for them to run their business. Teams offer season tickets as a means of stabilizing their income. A season ticket is guaranteed income that helps reducing the uncertainty of how much revenue a team can expect. When tickets to any given game are widely available, buying a season ticket doesn't make much sense. But post-season tickets are harder to come by. Teams give season ticket holders an opportunity to secure their tickets ahead of public on sales, like you said. The sports team gets guaranteed income while the fan gets access to tickets in times of scarcity.

If Coachella was a sports team, they are selling out every game from now into the foreseeable future. Coachella has guaranteed income. They don't need anything for you. There is no incentive for them to offer you a special privilege of gaining access to tickets before anyone else. Although you might like to believe that you deserve some special privilege because of your past attendance, that just isn't how the world works.

Edit: The problem with your "season ticket analogy" is that every single ticket would instantly be converted to a "season" ticket with, I would say, at least a 100% return rate every year. And what I mean to say is that on any given year you can expect 100% of "season ticket holders" to renew their pass for the next Coachella. The rest of people who you have deemed as the unwashed and unable to get a "season ticket" will, I suppose, be placed on a waiting list? There is no penalty for not renewing your pass and if you ultimately decide not to go, it's a guarantee that you will be able to unload your pass either back through Coachella (who will in turn sell it to the next in line) or through the secondary market (where prices will be significantly higher). Plenty of people buy season tickets for their sports teams just for access to post season tickets and they sell their regular season tickets through out the year. I can't really make a comparison to coachella because we are comparing apples to oranges here but I think this further proves why your idea is not a very good one.

So, it seems to me, what you want is a select group bourgeois of Coachella Club Members with the ability to secure tickets before the public, who will secure their tickets then decide if they will go or not without penalty and continue to maintain their Coachella Executive Preferred Membership™.

Here, I've got a picture for you:

[Goatchella]

guaranteed income....which Coachella has weather it caters to your cries or not.

niggas getting paid. not concerned about the burnt out hood rats of the past.

[Goatchella]

Season tickets are not something teams offer to people because they are "loyal". Sports teams make their money primarily from ticket sales, yes? Well when a team isn't doing that great, they don't sell out every game. If a team isn't selling out every game, their income can vary dramatically. This uncertainty makes it harder for them to run their business. Teams offer season tickets as a means of stabilizing their income. A season ticket is guaranteed income that helps reducing the uncertainty of how much revenue a team can expect. When tickets to any given game are widely available, buying a season ticket doesn't make much sense. But post-season tickets are harder to come by. Teams give season ticket holders an opportunity to secure their tickets ahead of public on sales, like you said. The sports team gets guaranteed income while the fan gets access to tickets in times of scarcity.

If Coachella was a sports team, they are selling out every game from now into the foreseeable future. Coachella has guaranteed income. They don't need anything for you. There is no incentive for them to offer you a special privilege of gaining access to tickets before anyone else. Although you might like to believe that you deserve some special privilege because of your past attendance, that just isn't how the world works.

but they have people that read these forums....and AMyz once had a problem resolved...or addressed rather. Demands will not be met?

[RotationSlimWang]

Guys, seriously, it's not like you have any obligation to listen to me, but your playing into his trolling has now turned a thread of positive, useful discussion for the first two pages into three straight pages of arguing with the 30 year old male equivalent of Brokendoll.

It's your choice if you really wanna keep trying to rationally debate someone who clearly has no education, life experience, grasp of commerce, and who's only really doing this being he's too dumb to ever be right about anything and wanted to derail the thread.

I was ignoring him for a reason, so that if anyone in a position to think about adopting this policy again happened to check it out they wouldn't be turned off by how quickly these supposed "loyal fans" of Coachella degenerate into a slap-fight. Every post he ever made has been immature, feather-headed gibberish. Why not go make fun of the ones in other threads and just let him wear himself out trying to start a fight in here?

[Wheres the beef?]

Guys, seriously, it's not like you have any obligation to listen to me, but your playing into his trolling has now turned a thread of positive, useful discussion for the first two pages into three straight pages of arguing with the 30 year old male equivalent of Brokendoll.

It's your choice if you really wanna keep trying to rationally debate someone who clearly has no education, life experience, grasp of commerce, and who's only really doing this being he's too dumb to ever be right about anything and wanted to derail the thread.

I was ignoring him for a reason, so that if anyone in a position to think about adopting this policy again happened to check it out they wouldn't be turned off by how quickly these supposed "loyal fans" of Coachella degenerate into a slap-fight. Every post he ever made has been immature, feather-headed gibberish. Why not go make fun of the ones in other threads and just let him wear himself out trying to start a fight in here?

I know you had the best intentions but I think your proposed solution was a bit half baked and quite self serving. Let me pose a hypothetical scenario to you:

You said, "Well, with all these systems you've put in place it seems to me that you could easily create a much more motivating reason to register one's wristband: some limited advanced pre-sales for anyone who already has a coachella.com account from previous year's attendance." So assume that Coachella takes you up on your offer. But only those who attended Coachella in 2006 or any previous years may sign up for the advanced pre-sale. How do you feel now?

I get what you are trying to do. At some point we are going to be having a discussion about the proper ways to deal with ticket scarcity. I'm sure folks at GV are already talking about it. Having lived through the ticket fiasco of Burning Man and followed the near collapse of entire community over ticket scarcity this year, I've read way too many simple ideas to solve a complex problem. I hope we can have a fruitful discussion on the topic without treading the same ground that's already been tread. We have a lot of smart people here. And this is a topic I'm eager to discuss so, I'm with you in hoping we can have a discussion positively.

[amyzzz]

He seriously argues worse than I do.

[RotationSlimWang]

And all this arguing about whether we deserve preferential treatment is exactly what I thought I clearly explained is NOT the justification for this idea. It's not to reward us. Paul has spoken many times about how much he loves and appreciates the devotion people have for his fest. GV has been instituting a series of policy changes over the past several years clearly intended to help curb scalping, discourage attendance by people who aren't there to really get into the spirit of treating Coachella as a four-day immersive experience instead of just some bands playing in the desert (no single day passes, tripling the camping capacity), and numerous other additions to what we get for our money over the past few years. I don't believe that they're doing all that just to make money. GV seems to be one company who really does care about whether or not their guests fully appreciate what they've worked so hard to put together.

It's silly to think that they don't care who buys their tickets. Anyone who puts on a show hopes the audience will be positive and enthusiastic and get as much out of their work as possible. I'm not saying they should make this previous-attendee presale just for our sakes--I legitimately believe that Paul would at least consider that it might benefit the festival itself to make sure at least some portion of the passes get into the hands of people who've previously been and who are so passionate about going that they'd take extra steps just for the relief of knowing their most important weekend is a lock. If you've been at least one previous year you're less likely to be a source of trouble as you know what the rules are, you hopefully get into the vibe of things, you're less likely to end up a medical emergency... there's a lot of reasons why it would be good from their perspective, not just ours.

[GuyInTucson]

Season tickets are not something teams offer to people because they are "loyal". Sports teams make their money primarily from ticket sales, yes? Well when a team isn't doing that great, they don't sell out every game. If a team isn't selling out every game, their income can vary dramatically. This uncertainty makes it harder for them to run their business.

This was true maybe 10-20 years ago but sports teams get more income through TV revenue now so....

Teams offer season tickets as a means of stabilizing their income. A season ticket is guaranteed income that helps reducing the uncertainty of how much revenue a team can expect. When tickets to any given game are widely available, buying a season ticket doesn't make much sense. But post-season tickets are harder to come by. Teams give season ticket holders an opportunity to secure their tickets ahead of public on sales, like you said. The sports team gets guaranteed income while the fan gets access to tickets in times of scarcity.

The things is, when you purchase a season ticket, you are given the opportunity to purchase your same season ticket again the following year before other people are allowed to purchase anything. You own the rights to your ticket/seat in many instances, meaning they aren't just goint to throw it back on the market if you own the seat / ticket liscence. If you buy an available season ticket, it's yours for the forseeable future (if you choose to renew) and not just one year. They also cap the amount of PSL's / season tickets they sell; they can do the same in a similar program at a music festival. Provide a certain amount of liscences for people who plan on attending every year to purchase and give them first crack. You have the option of renewing it on a specific date and if you don't wan't to, then your liscence opens up for someone else to purchase.

If Coachella was a sports team, they are selling out every game from now into the foreseeable future. Coachella has guaranteed income. They don't need anything for you. There is no incentive for them to offer you a special privilege of gaining access to tickets before anyone else. Although you might like to believe that you deserve some special privilege because of your past attendance, that just isn't how the world works.

The Pittsburgh Steelers, for example, are generally successful and don't need to do anything specific for an individual season ticket holder either because someone else will be happy to take their place. Their waiting list for season tickets is pretty long and they could just throw them all back on the market every year for different people to purchase and they would sell them out no problem. Instead, current season ticket holders are allowed to renew and many fans who have waited years for season tickets are left hanging.

Edit: The problem with your "season ticket analogy" is that every single ticket would instantly be converted to a "season" ticket with, I would say, at least a 95% return rate every year. And what I mean to say is that on any given year you can expect 95% of "season ticket holders" to renew their pass for the next Coachella. The rest of people who you have deemed as the unwashed and unable to get a "season ticket" will, I suppose, be placed on a waiting list? There is no penalty for not renewing your pass and if you ultimately decide not to go, it's a guarantee that you will be able to unload your pass either back through Coachella (who will in turn sell it to the next in line) or through the secondary market (where prices will be significantly higher).

The penalty for not renewing your pass is that you lose the rights to it. It's not like I am asking there to be anywhere close to 150,000+ "personal pass liscences" or anything. People will still have a chance to go to the festival every year.

So, it seems to me, what you want is a select group bourgeois of Coachella Club Members with the ability to secure tickets before the public, who will secure their tickets then decide if they will go or not without penalty and continue to maintain their Coachella Executive Preferred Membership™.

Here, I've got a picture for you:

Hey jackass, read around the fucking thread. It's not just me who is in support of some loyalty program.

[Wheres the beef?]

And all this arguing about whether we deserve preferential treatment is exactly what I thought I clearly explained is NOT the justification for this idea. It's not to reward us. Paul has spoken many times about how much he loves and appreciates the devotion people have for his fest. GV has been instituting a series of policy changes over the past several years clearly intended to help curb scalping, discourage attendance by people who aren't there to really get into the spirit of treating Coachella as a four-day immersive experience instead of just some bands playing in the desert (no single day passes, tripling the camping capacity), and numerous other additions to what we get for our money over the past few years. I don't believe that they're doing all that just to make money. GV seems to be one company who really does care about whether or not their guests fully appreciate what they've worked so hard to put together.

I don't disagree with this at all.

It's silly to think that they don't care who buys their tickets. Anyone who puts on a show hopes the audience will be positive and enthusiastic and get as much out of their work as possible. I'm not saying they should make this previous-attendee presale just for our sakes--I legitimately believe that Paul would at least consider that it might benefit the festival itself to make sure at least some portion of the passes get into the hands of people who've previously been and who are so passionate about going that they'd take extra steps just for the relief of knowing their most important weekend is a lock. If you've been at least one previous year you're less likely to be a source of trouble as you know what the rules are, you hopefully get into the vibe of things, you're less likely to end up a medical emergency... there's a lot of reasons why it would be good from their perspective, not just ours.

I don't disagree with this either.

Tell me if I have this right: Tickets for Coachella are being increasingly scarce. It is becoming harder and harder for Coachella "regulars" to secure their tickets with each passing year. GV and Coachella have a demonstrated track record of "going above and beyond" what some might expect from a festival. Indeed, one might say that Coachella sets the standard about what we could and should expect from a music festival, no? And that track record includes incorporating feedback from it's fans and working to improve their experience. So it's not unreasonable to suggest they might implement a system to ensure their most loyal fans get tickets. Or is it?

I think we need to first establish why this is necessary. Because I think that would help identify what solutions are both possible and fair. We can agree that tickets are becoming increasingly harder to get and we expect that trend to continue, no? So why are tickets becoming more scarce? Is it a scalper problem or a popularity problem?

If it's a scalper problem, then I think that your solution of an advanced pre-sale doesn't work. Scalpers will inevitably take advantage of the presale and whatever is left for the public sale. There are other, better solutions imo.

If it's a popularity problem, where there just aren't enough tickets to go around, then your problem is defining who gets access to the presale and who doesn't. And that is where I think the problem is because any criteria will be inherently unfair to someone. And like the saying goes, you can't please everyone. So I think one of the best solutions is to just do nothing. Everyone is equally unhappy.

[RotationSlimWang]

I know you had the best intentions but I think your proposed solution was a bit half baked and quite self serving. Let me pose a hypothetical scenario to you:

You said, "Well, with all these systems you've put in place it seems to me that you could easily create a much more motivating reason to register one's wristband: some limited advanced pre-sales for anyone who already has a coachella.com account from previous year's attendance." So assume that Coachella takes you up on your offer. But only those who attended Coachella in 2006 or any previous years may sign up for the advanced pre-sale. How do you feel now?

I get what you are trying to do. At some point we are going to be having a discussion about the proper ways to deal with ticket scarcity. I'm sure folks at GV are already talking about it. Having lived through the ticket fiasco of Burning Man and followed the near collapse of entire community over ticket scarcity this year, I've read way too many simple ideas to solve a complex problem. I hope we can have a fruitful discussion on the topic without treading the same ground that's already been tread. We have a lot of smart people here. And this is a topic I'm eager to discuss so, I'm with you in hoping we can have a discussion positively.

Well, I was there in 2006, actually, but man did you ever miss like half of what I said. That would be a great rebuttal, except last year was the first year you could register your wristband officially in this system and your identity be verified thanks to the addition of the RFID chips. It's a new thing they did so they could scan you in and out and you could participate in scanning-related activities around the fields. The registration system that started last year has no knowledge of years prior, nor could it. If they made the rule that only 2006 and prior attendees counted, well, firstly it would be a very arbitrary and seemingly baseless rejection of my exhaustively repeated explanation that there should be absolutely no discrimination based on how many or what years you attended. One year is no different than 11, making distinctions like that is discriminatory, not to mention irrelevant since only 2012 attendees could possibly be eligible (had they done it this year) due to it being the first time they had any technology that could let you register your ticket/wristband to your name permanently, which could then be associated with the user's frontgate account therefore making it possible to prove that you went last year before being allowed in to the presale waiting room.

[Wheres the beef?]

The penalty for not renewing your pass is that you lose the rights to it. It's not like I am asking there to be anywhere close to 150,000+ "personal pass liscences" or anything. People will still have a chance to go to the festival every year.

Sorry, maybe I didn't word this right.

Edit: The problem with your "season ticket analogy" is that every single ticket would instantly be converted to a "season" ticket with, I would say, at least a 95% return rate every year. And what I mean to say is that on any given year you can expect 95% of "season ticket holders" to renew their pass for the next Coachella. The rest of people who you have deemed as the unwashed and unable to get a "season ticket" will, I suppose, be placed on a waiting list? There is no penalty for not renewing your pass and if you ultimately decide not to go, it's a guarantee that you will be able to unload your pass either back through Coachella (who will in turn sell it to the next in line) or through the secondary market (where prices will be significantly higher).

In your scenario, I am a typical "coachella season pass holder". I'm going to renew my pass every year forever even though I don't plan on going every year and I will either sell my pass on the secondary market (at a profit) or back to Coachella (at no cost to me). I still retain my "rights" for the following year and I suffer no consequences if I don't go. The same goes for the other 149,999 passes while who knows how many thousands stand by on the waiting list. Do you not see the problem with this?

[fatbastard]

[Wheres the beef?]

Well, I was there in 2006, actually, but man did you ever miss like half of what I said. That would be a great rebuttal, except last year was the first year you could register your wristband officially in this system and your identity be verified thanks to the addition of the RFID chips. It's a new thing they did so they could scan you in and out and you could participate in scanning-related activities around the fields. The registration system that started last year has no knowledge of years prior, nor could it. If they made the rule that only 2006 and prior attendees counted, well, firstly it would be a very arbitrary and seemingly baseless rejection of my exhaustively repeated explanation that there should be absolutely no discrimination based on how many or what years you attended. One year is no different than 11, making distinctions like that is discriminatory, not to mention irrelevant since only 2012 attendees could possibly be eligible (had they done it this year) due to it being the first time they had any technology that could let you register your ticket/wristband to your name permanently, which could then be associated with the user's frontgate account therefore making it possible to prove that you went last year before being allowed in to the presale waiting room.

I'm confused. Are you saying that you would have a special presale and that there would be no criteria for who would be eligible?

[RotationSlimWang]

I don't disagree with this at all.



I don't disagree with this either.

Tell me if I have this right: Tickets for Coachella are being increasingly scarce. It is becoming harder and harder for Coachella "regulars" to secure their tickets with each passing year. GV and Coachella have a demonstrated track record of "going above and beyond" what some might expect from a festival. Indeed, one might say that Coachella sets the standard about what we could and should expect from a music festival, no? And that track record includes incorporating feedback from it's fans and working to improve their experience. So it's not unreasonable to suggest they might implement a system to ensure their most loyal fans get tickets. Or is it?

I think we need to first establish why this is necessary. Because I think that would help identify what solutions are both possible and fair. We can agree that tickets are becoming increasingly harder to get and we expect that trend to continue, no? So why are tickets becoming more scarce? Is it a scalper problem or a popularity problem?

If it's a scalper problem, then I think that your solution of an advanced pre-sale doesn't work. Scalpers will inevitably take advantage of the presale and whatever is left for the public sale.

If it's a popularity problem, where there just aren't enough tickets to go around, then your problem is defining who gets access to the presale and who doesn't. And that is where I think the problem is because any criteria will be inherently unfair to someone. And like the saying goes, you can't please everyone. So I think one of the best solutions is to just do nothing. Everyone is equally unhappy.

Maybe the presale limit one ticket per registered account. You can buy a ticket for yourself, it's automatically tied to your name and frontgate account exclusively. Anybody who scalped a ticket last year (meaning bought tickets with the express intention of selling them) almost certainly didn't register the wristband to their scalper name before selling it, therefore that scalper couldn't buy a ticket in my theoretical presale. Plus single ticket limits make scalping insanely high risk speculating, in fact no real scalper would ever bother because unless you have at least a pair you have almost no chance of selling to their most desired clientele (rich people who want to have a glamorous time and never want to do it alone).

They would still take some bite out in the regular onsale sure, but just because the plan doesn't eliminate all scalping doesn't mean there's no value to it. If it helps get tickets into the hands of loyal fans and only loyal fans I'd call that a success.

Popularity is a factor too. I don't have any problem defining who gets access to the presale--if you read my post, I explain very clearly who gets access. People with registered wristbands from 2011, or next year 2011 and 2012. GV would be able to see that the wristband was sold to John Smith through his frontgate account, then that his wristband was registered to John Smith on coachella.com, then that the wristband had been scanned in at the turnstiles. There ya go, dude went, he's eligible: proof. The reason we can finally advocate a system like this is it took the RFID bands, the Frontgate ticket system, and the registering your RFID chip with your name and info to make verifying any of this possible.

Now it's possible. Let's do it.