The 2012 MLB Thread

[Miroir Noir]

I think the pro-Trout hypothetical is more along the lines of "if the front office hadn't wasted the first six weeks of the season spending good money after bad with Wells and Abreu, and started the kid in the bigs . . . "

[ManImCool]

MVPosey

[HotHamWater]

Here's a weird thought, both Trout and Cabrera had MVP seasons and both deserved the award. But only one got it, so congrats to Cabrera.

[Newro7ic]

Here's a weird thought, both Trout and Cabrera had MVP seasons and both deserved the award. But only one got it, so congrats to Cabrera.

I'm a huge Trout fan, but this is what it is. The guy who makes it to the World Series is going to have the upper hand in voting, and doesn't make either player less deserving.

[TomAz]

The Angels finished in 3rd place in the AL West. Without Trout, they would have finished in 3rd place in the AL West. How could he possibly be 'most valuable'?

[Miroir Noir]

6-14, 83-59. This isn't that difficult to figure out.

We also have this amazing wizard-age stat called Wins Above Replacement that can help sort this thing out.

[TomAz]

Baseball is being taken over by guys with pocket protectors. Fuck them.

[Miroir Noir]

haha, but do you really believe that Cabrera's season was "more valuable" than Trout's because his team finished seventh in the American League and made the playoffs (because it had the good fortune of playing in a poor division), where Trout's team finished sixth in the American League and didn't make the playoffs (because it had the bad fortune of playing in a quality division)? It's such an unpersuasive argument to make.

[zonarob]

Baseball is being taken over by guys with pocket protectors. Fuck them.

Amen

[bmack86]

I agree. A MVP should be a player who truly changed the team dynamic, a leader in stats and on the field. Not just some dude with numbers.

[Miroir Noir]

But that's part of my argument, if you want to award the MVP on a "narrative" argument, how is the Trout-led turnaround of LAA as a rookie phenom not a credible story about his value? In this case, we don't need a hypothetical about "what would the team's season have looked like without the player?," we know from the record.

[theklein25]

In the end people will remember that Miguel Cabrera got the triple crown, the first one in 45 years. People overlook the fact that Trout dropped off hard in September. Sometimes it's a close race and not everyone will agree, but whoever of them won the MVP certainly deserved it.

[heart cooks brain]

haha, but do you really believe that Cabrera's season was "more valuable" than Trout's because his team finished seventh in the American League and made the playoffs (because it had the good fortune of playing in a poor division), where Trout's team finished sixth in the American League and didn't make the playoffs (because it had the bad fortune of playing in a quality division)? It's such an unpersuasive argument to make.

actually, i believe that the tigers record vs non-divisional opponents was better than in-division.

[Miroir Noir]

That may be the case, but I wasn't pointing out the divisional aspect just to argue that the Tigers beat up on the Royals, Indians, and Twins, but more to point out that they ultimately made the playoffs because they had the best record among those poor teams, and certainly not because they finished better than Trout's team did.

[stuporfly]

Melky Cabrera Will Sign With the Blue Jays

Melky Cabrera will sign with the Toronto Blue Jays, according to a report from ESPNDeportes.com. According to the report, Cabrera will sign a two-year, $16 million contract with the Canadian club.

Cabrera will come to Toronto after a 2012 season with the San Francisco Giants that was, to say the least, up-and-down. Cabrera hit extremely well in the first half of the season – well enough to earn his first All-Star nod. Cabrera won the All-Star game MVP award, but that would be his last honor of the season. Cabrera was suspended for 50 games by MLB a month after the All-Star break after testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs.

Cabrera, who at that point was a shoe-in for the NL batting title, requested that he be made ineligible to win the award. Cabrera’s suspension ran out in the Giants’ run to the 2012 World Series title, but he did not play a part in the postseason.

[Gribbz]

Honestly, I don't think the advanced saber metrics people will ever go back to the old way of thinking... same goes with the traditionalists. C'est la vie.

I agree. A MVP should be a player who truly changed the team dynamic, a leader in stats and on the field. Not just some dude with numbers.

Stick that in your pocket protector and smoke it.

[TomAz]

Stick that in your pocket protector and smoke it.

ha, I heard Mike & Mike this morning too.

[Gribbz]

ha, I heard Mike & Mike this morning too.

Hahaha. I also chuckled when that one journalist from the Baseball Writers Association called Cabrera winning "embarrassing."

[Miroir Noir]

Keith Law's Wikipedia page has been updated:

[stuporfly]

rediculous

[dorkfish]

Melky Cabrera Will Sign With the Blue Jays

Kinda hoped that we would give him another chance, but ignoring the fact that there was no way we would resign him--there's no way we would have given him $8M a season.

[stuporfly]

(Sh)it happened

MIAMI -- The Miami Marlins' latest payroll purge received final approval Monday from the commissioner's office, and as the team's top baseball executive began to discuss the deal during a conference call, a bad connection generated waves of reverberating noise that filled the phone line.

Nearly a week after the Marlins swung their widely ridiculed trade with Toronto, negative feedback keeps coming.

Commissioner Bud Selig approved the blockbuster deal, however, even though it made Marlins fans irate and made the team a nationwide punch line. The trade sends All-Star shortstop Jose Reyes to the Blue Jays along with pitchers Mark Buehrle and Josh Johnson, catcher John Buck and outfielder Emilio Bonifacio for seven players, none of whom has a big-money contract.

Miami received infielders Yunel Escobar and Adeiny Hechavarria, pitchers Henderson Alvarez, Anthony DeSclafani and Justin Nicolino, catcher Jeff Mathis and outfielder Jake Marisnick. By swinging the deal only months after the Marlins moved into a new stadium built with taxpayer money, they pared from their books $154 million in payroll, which does not account for cash they agreed to send the Blue Jays.

Marlins president of baseball operations Larry Beinfest said he understood why fans were mad, and confirmed the trade was necessary because owner Jeffrey Loria wanted to pare payroll. Beinfest also conceded the deal will make it harder for the team to recruit free agents in the future.

But Selig decided not to block it.

"This transaction, involving established major leaguers and highly regarded young players and prospects, represents the exercise of plausible baseball judgment on the part of both clubs (and) does not violate any express rule of Major League Baseball and does not otherwise warrant the exercise of any of my powers to prevent its completion," Selig said in a statement. "It is, of course, up to the clubs involved to make the case to their respective fans that this transaction makes sense and enhances the competitive position of each, now or in the future."

The players traded by the Marlins have combined guaranteed salaries of $163.75 million through 2018, including $96 million due Reyes.

"I understand the pause the fans have with the instability in our roster at a time when we were hoping to be very stable in the new stadium," Beinfest said. "It's not a lot of fun."

By contrast, the trade stamps the Blue Jays as contenders in the AL East. They haven't reached the playoffs since winning their second consecutive World Series in 1993.

Miami also finalized a deal with outfielder Juan Pierre, who agreed to a $1.6 million, one-year contract. That leaves the Marlins with an estimated opening-day payroll of $36 million for active players, which would be their lowest since 2008. In the latest figures, Oakland had the lowest payroll in the majors this year at $59.5 million.

While Beinfest said the Marlins acquired championship-caliber talent, fans believe owner Jeffrey Loria's goal was to increase his profits in the new ballpark rather than put increased revenue into the roster.

"We did receive a payroll range from ownership that we needed to achieve," Beinfest said. "With this transaction, we have achieved that payroll range."

The Marlins flopped as big spenders. They began the year with a franchise-record payroll of $112 million, then went 69-93, their worst record since 1999.

After sinking to last place by midseason, the Marlins traded former NL batting champion Hanley Ramirez, second baseman Omar Infante, right-hander Anibal Sanchez and closer Heath Bell. Reyes, Buehrle and Bell signed multiyear deals as newcomers a year ago during an unprecedented Marlins spending spree, and Beinfest acknowledged other free agents might be now reluctant to sign with Miami.

"It'll be a factor," he said. "I don't think we're happy about this at all. I understand there may be some disdain in the marketplace. We won't know until we get into those negotiations with free agents. It's definitely not great for the club, and we're going to have to deal with it."

Miami's biggest remaining star, slugger Giancarlo Stanton, has been among those expressing anger about the trade. Beinfest said he hadn't talked with Stanton about the deal.

"I know this is an emotional time," Beinfest said. "I'm sure it has been tough for him. Our feeling was to maybe let the dust settle a little bit and then talk to Giancarlo. I hear the frustration. It's not unexpected. This has been a tough go, but we think it's best for us moving forward."

Players' union head Michael Weiner withheld comment, saying he was awaiting more input from Major League Baseball.

In January 2009, the union reached an agreement with MLB and the Marlins covering 2010-12 which Weiner said was a "response to our concerns that revenue sharing proceeds have not been used as required. As part of the deal, Weiner said the team planned to "use such proceeds to increase player payroll annually as they move toward the opening of their new ballpark."

Selig said he was sensitive to how Marlins fans reacted to the trade.

"Baseball is a social institution with important social responsibilities, and I fully understand that the Miami community has done its part to put the Marlins into a position to succeed with beautiful new Marlins Park," Selig said. "Going forward, I will continue to monitor this situation with the expectation that the Marlins will take into account the sentiments of their fans, who deserve the best efforts and considered judgment of their club. I have received assurances from the ownership of the Marlins that they share these beliefs and are fully committed to build a long-term winning team that their fans can be proud of."

[paulb]

Fuck yes. Why did it take so long anyways? I look forward to seeing what the Blue Jays bring next year.

[EastLos01]

Fuck yes. Why did it take so long anyways? I look forward to seeing what the Blue Jays bring next year.

Although I'm a Dodger fan, I can't wait to see how Ricky Romero Bounces back. Hoping he's finally healthy enough to fully bring it.

[Miroir Noir]

The 2013 Hall of Fame Ballot is out:

Sandy Alomar Jr. 1988-2007 1st
Jeff Bagwell 1991-2005 3rd
Craig Biggio 1988-2007 1st
Barry Bonds 1986-2007 1st
Jeff Cirillo 1994-2007 1st
Royce Clayton 1991-2007 1st
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 1st
Jeff Conine 1990, 1992-2007 1st
Steve Finley 1989-2007 1st
Julio Franco 1982-94, 1996-97, 1999, 2001-07 1st
Shawn Green 1993-2007 1st
Roberto Hernandez 1991-2007 1st
Ryan Klesko 1992-2007 1st
Kenny Lofton 1991-2007 1st
Edgar Martinez 1987-2004 4th
Don Mattingly 1982-95 13th
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 4th
Mark McGwire 1986-2001 7th
Jose Mesa 1987, 1990-2007 1st
Jack Morris 1977-94 14th
Dale Murphy 1976-93 15th
Rafael Palmeiro 1986-2005 3rd
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 1st
Tim Raines 1979-2002 6th
Reggie Sanders 1991-2007 1st
Curt Schilling 1988-2007 1st
Aaron Sele 1993-2007 1st
Lee Smith 1980-97 11th
Sammy Sosa 1988-2005, 2007 1st
Mike Stanton 1989-2007 1st
Alan Trammell 1977-96 12th
Larry Walker 1989-2005 3rd
Todd Walker 1996-2007 1st
David Wells 1987-2007 1st
Rondell White 1996-2007 1st
Bernie Williams 1991-2006 2nd
Woody Williams 1993-2007 1st

[HotHamWater]

I expect Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio, and maybe Tim Raines, Curt Schilling and Jack Morris to get in.

[Miroir Noir]

Biggio and Piazza are clear no-brainers. Those guys put up exceptional numbers for their positions and were iconic players for their era. Tim Raines absolutely should be in, but he'd have to jump over Morris, Bagwell, and Lee Smith relative to the 2012 voting, as well as all of the new guys.

I would vote for:

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines

Morris and Schilling are closer calls for me -- and strikingly similar players -- but I'd probably put both in on the strength of playoff heroics. I maintain that Edgar Martinez is the best pure hitter that I've ever seen in my life; he started his career late and played DH, both real problems. He's a tough call for me. So are the '80s guys -- Trammell, Murphy, Mattingly -- not sure if we are undervaluing them or overvaluing them today in light of the steroids era.

[bmack86]

I vote Pete Rose

[getbetter]

When I was a waiter Pete Rose came in and I got wait on him.He likes tequila.

[Miroir Noir]