Fuck the Republican Party.

[TomAz]

So you think that the educational system will right itself when high school funding is bankrupting several states and we are about to go into a merit based system that will be the biggest clusterfuck anyone has ever comprehended?

I didn't say that either. I said that your arguments are meritless. Got it yet?

[Newro7ic]

Calling an IT technician a "technology job" is like calling an auto-mechanic an engineer.

IT = Information Technology

If you'd like to redefine the acronym, you should write a sternly worded letter to the high council of acronym creation. Do not confuse Tech support or help desk with actual work in the IT industry. They are basically service people.

In my experience, in the technology sector, it's who you know more than what degrees or certifications you have, although, those can help. Who you know gets your foot in the door.

[kreutz2112]

Semantics. My point still stands. Tom said it better:

I consider IT a trade these days.

[malcolmjamalawesome]

If a reporter thinks online classes are hard ...

[getbetter]

I consider IT a trade these days.

Sounds like something you go to DeVry for.

[jackstraw94086]

All of your perceptions of "IT" are formed by sitcoms.


those late night ads for "exciting careers in the IT field" are aimed at one particular small notion of IT.

[amyzzz]

My husband is a software engineer, and he worked his way up through entry-level sales to system administration to programming and coding getting tons of experience along the way. Every once in a while his employer has him do a certification here or there to look good, but he has no related college education.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Most of my professional experiences with IT folks have been just like this ^

[VigoTheCarpathian]

But there are a lot of leftover hackers from the 80s

[chairmenmeow47]

If a reporter thinks online classes are hard ...

just wait 'til she sees your dick?

it's a silly anecdote, i know.

[RotationSlimWang]

Yeah, everybody who doesn't work in the technology field should please shut the fuck up, seriously. Tom I wouldn't begin to hypothesize about what goes into being an actuarial or whatever the fuck it is you do, and I sincerely doubt that you know anything more about the reality of people who end up with jobs as infrastructure architects, or run the server farms that make your entire company capable of doing their jobs, or program software, or keep the fucking internet alive and well. Most of the most famous technological minds of our time were college dropouts with good reason--we could give two fucks about theory. You learn better through practical.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Randy: famous technological mind

[RotationSlimWang]

Vigo: Famously Ugly Dumb Fuck.

[SlowMotionApocalypse]

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...on-the-prairie

479: Little War on the Prairie
NOV 23, 2012
Growing up in Mankato, Minnesota, John Biewen says, nobody ever talked about the most important historical event ever to happen there: in 1862, it was the site of the largest mass execution in U.S. history. Thirty-eight Dakota Indians were hanged after a war with white settlers. John went back to Minnesota to figure out what really happened 150 years ago, and why Minnesotans didn’t talk about it much after.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Talking about Native Americans always makes liberals uncomfortable.

[TomAz]

Yeah, everybody who doesn't work in the technology field should please shut the fuck up, seriously. Tom I wouldn't begin to hypothesize about what goes into being an actuarial or whatever the fuck it is you do, and I sincerely doubt that you know anything more about the reality of people who end up with jobs as infrastructure architects, or run the server farms that make your entire company capable of doing their jobs, or program software, or keep the fucking internet alive and well. Most of the most famous technological minds of our time were college dropouts with good reason--we could give two fucks about theory. You learn better through practical.

Actually, I help hire those people.

Calling IT a 'trade' is no insult; it's just reality. The distinction between profession and trade is the form the education takes; professions emphasize formal academic training while the trades emphasize apprenticeship. Your arguments support my position.

[chairmenmeow47]

when you say you think IT is a trade, do you mean individual hardware? what about architecture/design/coding/testing etc.? what about network hardware? i'm not trying to pretend i know what i'm talking about (even though my job title includes IT for some strange reason).

[RotationSlimWang]

Actually, I help hire those people.

Calling IT a 'trade' is no insult; it's just reality. The distinction between profession and trade is the form the education takes; professions emphasize formal academic training while the trades emphasize apprenticeship. Your arguments support my position.

So professions can only be learned through schooling?

[jackstraw94086]

Actually, I help hire those people.

Calling IT a 'trade' is no insult; it's just reality. The distinction between profession and trade is the form the education takes; professions emphasize formal academic training while the trades emphasize apprenticeship. Your arguments support my position.

you are talking about one relatively small department within IT in any company of appreciable size.
Most positions within the IT organization of a company that relies to any significant extent on technology require actual college education.

[jackstraw94086]

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...on-the-prairie

479: Little War on the Prairie
NOV 23, 2012
Growing up in Mankato, Minnesota, John Biewen says, nobody ever talked about the most important historical event ever to happen there: in 1862, it was the site of the largest mass execution in U.S. history. Thirty-eight Dakota Indians were hanged after a war with white settlers. John went back to Minnesota to figure out what really happened 150 years ago, and why Minnesotans didn’t talk about it much after.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Talking about Native Americans always makes liberals uncomfortable.

"mass extinction" lol

[RotationSlimWang]

Bill Gates is a tradesman, huh?

[TomAz]

No. You are a tradesman. Bill Gates is an entrepreneur.

[grannock]

I didn't say that either. I said that your arguments are meritless. Got it yet?

So my arguments are without merit but you agree with me?

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Yeah, its like if you said the world is round like a tomato

[TomAz]

So my arguments are without merit but you agree with me?

See now you're just trolling.

[chairmenmeow47]

i'm still interested to know if tom thinks ALL IT jobs are "trade work" or not.

[TomAz]

I think any job where you learn by doing rather than through academic study constitutes a trade, by definition. Electrical engineering is not a trade, so no, not all "IT" jobs are trades. The kinds of jobs Randy was describing, however, where individuals learn though a sort of informal apprenticeship program, certainly are more like trades than professions.

[bobert]

I think any job where you learn by doing rather than through academic study constitutes a trade, by definition. Electrical engineering is not a trade, so no, not all "IT" jobs are trades. The kinds of jobs Randy was describing, however, where individuals learn though a sort of informal apprenticeship program, certainly are more like trades than professions.

Couldn't that logic be applied to numerous professions though? Seems like there must be millions of examples of people starting their own businesses without any formal education and learning on the job. To me, "trade" always implied some kind of manual labor or construction.

[jackstraw94086]

Jesus. the critical difference is how specified the task is that you're performing.

[scenicworld]

I think any job where you learn by doing rather than through academic study constitutes a trade, by definition. Electrical engineering is not a trade, so no, not all "IT" jobs are trades. The kinds of jobs Randy was describing, however, where individuals learn though a sort of informal apprenticeship program, certainly are more like trades than professions.

IT is an ever evolving industry so you're always going to learn new skills on the job by doing rather than though academic studying. Electrical engineering really hasn't changed much, if at all, in the last 30 years.

[jackstraw94086]

Electrical engineering really hasn't changed much, if at all, in the last 30 years.

Oh really?