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Thread: 9/11 conspiracy theories

  1. #91

    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Blinken View Post
    It took hours to ground all the planes. they don't just magically land once the order to ground air traffic gets issued. Remember the second attack was at 9:03 am and the attack on the Pentagon was at 9:37. Before the second attack everyone thought it was isolated incident. so you have 34 minutes between the two attacks not an hour like you said. That is not enough to ground any air traffic, or identify other planes that have been highjacked to shoot down, then get presidential approval and shoot it down.
    You can't go by when the planes hit the towers. It all starts when the planes deviate from their flightpath, lose radio contact, turn off their transponders. It sends immediate redflags to the FAA. After Payne Stewart's plane lost pressure and everyone passed out, the plane lost radio contact with the FAA and deviated from its planned flightpath. It took 23 minutes for fighter jets to scramble and intercept the plane. People, who question the official story of why we couldn't intercept these planes on 9-11, want to know why there are drastic differences in response times between these two similar events and the answers offered up are ridiculous at best and insulting at worst. As Tom said:
    conspiracy theorists try to drag everything back to the level of common sense
    Last edited by Wheres the beef?; 03-16-2009 at 04:06 PM.

  2. #92

    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    NORAD Mission and Structure. NORAD is a binational command established in 1958 between the United States and Canada. Its mission was, and is, to defend the airspace of North America and protect the continent. That mission does not distinguish between internal and external threats; but because NORAD was created to counter the Soviet threat, it came to define its job as defending against external attacks.96
    ...........
    ....
    ....................
    .........
    http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
    TL;DR

  3. #93
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    I'm saying in normal operating procedure there should have been some fucking jets either following that plane by that point OR patrolling Pentagon/House Of Congress air space. There was neither.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  4. #94
    Coachella Junkie Blinken's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsblend420 View Post
    You can't go by when the planes hit the towers. It all starts when the planes deviate from their flightpath, lose radio contact, turn off their transponders. It sends immediate redflags to the FAA. After Payne Stewart's plane lost pressure and everyone passed out, the plane lost radio contact with the FAA and deviated from its planned flightpath. It took 23 minutes for fighter jets to scramble and intercept the plane. People, who question the official story of why we couldn't intercept these planes on 9-11, want to know why there are drastic differences in response times between these two similar events and the answers offered up are ridiculous at best and insulting at worst. As Tom said:
    As Tom pointed out they didn't know what they were dealing with until the first plane hit the towers. I was wrong about my accident statement, that was only the media that thought that not the FAA. We got caught with our pants down and were not prepared in any way for the attacks. Tom's long post that you didn't read explains why they were not intercepted, but you didn't care to read it.

  5. #95
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    I'm sorry, wait, did you see what the explanation was?

    The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target's location. Second, a "generic" flight plan-prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly-incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go "090 for 60" superseded the original scramble order.153

    After the 9:36 call to NEADS about the unidentified aircraft a few miles from the White House, the Langley fighters were ordered to Washington, D.C. Controllers at NEADS located an unknown primary radar track, but "it kind of faded" over Washington. The time was 9:38.The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46. The Langley fighters were about 150 miles away.
    Are you fucking kidding me? You're telling me the country was under attack by commercial airplanes and they accidentally ordered ALL the fucking fighter jets to flying due east across the fucking ocean for 60 minutes? And NOBODY caught this while they were, oh I dunno, tracking the plane headed for D.C.? Srsly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  6. #96
    Coachella Junkie Blinken's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    I'm sorry, wait, did you see what the explanation was?



    Are you fucking kidding me? You're telling me the country was under attack by commercial airplanes and they accidentally ordered ALL the fucking fighter jets to flying due east across the fucking ocean for 60 minutes? And NOBODY caught this while they were, oh I dunno, tracking the plane headed for D.C.? Srsly?
    It was probably a order that was in place for an outside attack, during the Cold War era, and the person issueing orders that morning followed the manual for scrambling fighter jets. Is it really that hard to believe that out government and first responders could fuck up this badly?
    Last edited by Blinken; 03-16-2009 at 04:38 PM.

  7. #97
    Coachella Junkie Alchemy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    How do the mole men figure into all of this?
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    I try to be politically pc more than most here: As a dude, anyone who could put a shark up a gals pc body, is pretty creepy, different and interesting. Just saying big time ..... cr****

  8. #98
    man-homie obzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    theres no way it was rigged to explode either-it was a matter of how hot those fires got and how much jet fuel was burning.

    in the fields where they took the remnants of the fallen towers theres I-beams that are bent so clean-they completely folded without any cracks.

  9. #99
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Blinken View Post
    It was probably a order that was in place for an outside attack, during the Cold War era, and the person issueing orders that morning followed the manual for scrambling fighter jets. Is it really that hard to believe that out government and first responders could fuck up this badly?
    It's a little bit hard to believe that in the midst of all this they not only followed an antiquated procedural order which for some reason was written to scramble all jets as far the fuck AWAY from the stuff they're supposed to protect as possible and that they didn't catch it for an hour. Yes. That is hard to fucking believe. We're not talking about the government here, we're talking about basic fundamentals of fucking military disaster strategy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  10. #100
    Member BKsaysAction!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
    How do the mole men figure into all of this?
    Theres the explanation for tower 7, that or ninja turtles.

  11. #101
    Coachella Junkie Blinken's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    It's a little bit hard to believe that in the midst of all this they not only followed an antiquated procedural order which for some reason was written to scramble all jets as far the fuck AWAY from the stuff they're supposed to protect as possible and that they didn't catch it for an hour. Yes. That is hard to fucking believe. We're not talking about the government here, we're talking about basic fundamentals of fucking military disaster strategy.
    which weren't in place, you see who well the military did in Iraq. You want to believe that they are all good at their jobs and make the right calls under pressure, if they don't then something larger must be at work. NORAD was the military definition of antiquated, they weren't getting funding and were the subject of numorous cut backs. I really doubt they had the cream of the military crop working at those alert statations.

  12. #102
    Member BKsaysAction!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Blinken View Post
    which weren't in place, you see who well the military did in Iraq. You want to believe that they are all good at their jobs and make the right calls under pressure, if they don't then something larger must be at work. NORAD was the military definition of antiquated, they weren't getting funding and were the subject of numorous cut backs. I really doubt they had the cream of the military crop working at those alert statations.
    We fucked up Iraq because after we liberated them we let riots go unwatched, we didn't secure important buildings, and we layed off thousands of soldiers who were in the bath party by force and wanted to help the rebuilding process.

    So we have thousands of out of work Iraqi ex soldiers pissed off because their country is in total chaos and they're not allowed to help so when the extremists show up to set up shop and offer these pissed off ex soldiers a chance to "get their country back" what do you think they do?

    You can thank ole Donny Rumsfeld for that one and 9/11 for carelessness.

  13. #103

    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by obzen View Post
    theres no way it was rigged to explode either-it was a matter of how hot those fires got and how much jet fuel was burning.

    in the fields where they took the remnants of the fallen towers theres I-beams that are bent so clean-they completely folded without any cracks.
    It was thermite.

  14. #104
    old school Drewski27's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    this is terrible. why? why was this terrible thread made? silly politics
    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyCM View Post
    ICYMI: Today the two board members with the most questionable approach to music held mirrors up to each other; no one learned a thing and nothing will change.

    April 10/11/12 - Coachella wknd 1 - Indio
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  15. #105
    Coachella Junkie frozen pilgrim's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    this is all retarded.

  16. #106
    man-homie obzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    true.

  17. #107
    Member OnlyNonStranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Dude! I totally heard we didn't even land on the moon!

  18. #108
    Coachella Junkie Alchemy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyNonStranger View Post
    Dude! I totally heard we didn't even land on the moon!
    Obviously you are not familiar with conspiracy theories, or else you would know...

    That's no moon...

    It's a space station:

    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    I try to be politically pc more than most here: As a dude, anyone who could put a shark up a gals pc body, is pretty creepy, different and interesting. Just saying big time ..... cr****

  19. #109
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Blinken View Post
    which weren't in place, you see who well the military did in Iraq. You want to believe that they are all good at their jobs and make the right calls under pressure, if they don't then something larger must be at work. NORAD was the military definition of antiquated, they weren't getting funding and were the subject of numorous cut backs. I really doubt they had the cream of the military crop working at those alert statations.
    Dude, you're talking about basic procedures for controlling the air space over the fucking Pentagon. I'm sorry, I mean I think the military and the government are retarded and all, but I refuse to believe that the nearest air force base doesn't have SET IN FUCKING STONE guidelines that when there is a national security scare--ESPECIALLY A THREAT FROM FUCKING AIRCRAFT--that jet fighters are responsible with protecting the air space over D.C.

    We monitor and patrol the air space over other countries. You can't tell me that if they have heard hijackers have taken two airplanes confirmed to have been used as terrorist weapons in attacks against two highly populated national monuments (monuments to capitalism, America's true religion) and that two-plus other airliners have diverted from course and discontinued radio contact and are suspected of being hijacked--ONE OF WHICH MIGHT BE HEADED TOWARDS D.C.--that there is a fucking chance the proper air force protocol response is for those jets to all take off and fly straight east over the fucking ocean to leave D.C. completely unprotected.

    I'M SORRY. BUT THAT IS PATENTLY FUCKING RIDICULOUS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  20. #110
    Coachella Junkie Mr. Dylanja's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories


  21. #111

    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    I bet you're NOT sorry.

  22. #112
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Are you fucking kidding me? You're telling me the country was under attack by commercial airplanes and they accidentally ordered ALL the fucking fighter jets to flying due east across the fucking ocean for 60 minutes? And NOBODY caught this while they were, oh I dunno, tracking the plane headed for D.C.? Srsly?
    60 miles, not minutes. but still, it makes no sense.

    I think what the long narrative I posted shows is that it took a very long time for people in charge to even understand we were "under attack by commercial airplanes". NORAD learned about the Pentagon strike on the news. It was a scenario the FAA and the defense dept didn't anticipate, didn't plan for, and hence didn't train anyone for. Read the excerpt closely and you'll even see that the FAA (Boston Unit) called an AF base that was closed. Significant clusterfuck. But by the time of the last fight, UA 93, some people had figured it out and so it suffered a "passenger counterattack" and "crashed". (or, it was shot down).

  23. #113
    man-homie obzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    ^this is true.

    ^
    (i cant believe i typed that)

  24. #114
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    60 miles, not minutes. but still, it makes no sense.

    I think what the long narrative I posted shows is that it took a very long time for people in charge to even understand we were "under attack by commercial airplanes". NORAD learned about the Pentagon strike on the news. It was a scenario the FAA and the defense dept didn't anticipate, didn't plan for, and hence didn't train anyone for. Read the excerpt closely and you'll even see that the FAA (Boston Unit) called an AF base that was closed. Significant clusterfuck. But by the time of the last fight, UA 93, some people had figured it out and so it suffered a "passenger counterattack" and "crashed". (or, it was shot down).
    I admit, I'm not that willing to read the whole transcript, and fact is I'd probably never trust it entirely. I don't entirely believe any of the pieces of record regarding this matter are being repeated entirely in truth. Given the whole story of that silly excuse for Pearl Harbor (Oh, well even though there was a World War going on, we just figured the radar was broken. That's why we didn't react) it just feels like typical government coverup bullshit.

    I dunno, I guess it's become hard by this point to think of our military or government emergency systems as being remotely efficient. But I just remember how my grandfather used to talk about all the scenarios and actions they had in place--had already had in place for several years--specifically just to deal with dozens of different scenarios in response to the threat of nuclear attack. How depending on the variaton of attack methods they had a given set of priorities and responses to each possible inbound attack and on and on... and it just feels incredibly hard for me to believe that ANY of these scenarios dictate for the protective air force squadron to fly ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FUCKING MILES OFF-SHORE away from the crucial national security targets they were scrambled to protect.

    No matter what else you want to argue, by the point those fighters are scrambled their job was to patrol air space. They knew something was suspect, they weren't sure which planes were legitimate threats yet and which weren't. But weren't fucking none of them hanging out 150 FUCKING MILES over the Atlantic.

    Look, I think almost all the conspiracy theorists are fags too. I really do. It's so silly. But when something sounds just too dubious for my brain to possibly tolerate having to reconcile... I can't. I just can't.

    My mind, in all honestly, will not allow me to accept this. It would be more retarded than anything I could fathom if this were the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  25. #115

    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    I'm still not understanding what happened to the Israeli spies that were connected to 9-11, rounded up, and deported a week or so after. Fox News, of all people, reported on the story then it suddenly disappeared off their website.



    it goes on and on..............
    Last edited by Wheres the beef?; 03-16-2009 at 09:10 PM.

  26. #116
    Coachella Junkie Blinken's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    I admit, I'm not that willing to read the whole transcript, and fact is I'd probably never trust it entirely. I don't entirely believe any of the pieces of record regarding this matter are being repeated entirely in truth. Given the whole story of that silly excuse for Pearl Harbor (Oh, well even though there was a World War going on, we just figured the radar was broken. That's why we didn't react) it just feels like typical government coverup bullshit.

    I dunno, I guess it's become hard by this point to think of our military or government emergency systems as being remotely efficient. But I just remember how my grandfather used to talk about all the scenarios and actions they had in place--had already had in place for several years--specifically just to deal with dozens of different scenarios in response to the threat of nuclear attack. How depending on the variaton of attack methods they had a given set of priorities and responses to each possible inbound attack and on and on... and it just feels incredibly hard for me to believe that ANY of these scenarios dictate for the protective air force squadron to fly ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FUCKING MILES OFF-SHORE away from the crucial national security targets they were scrambled to protect.

    No matter what else you want to argue, by the point those fighters are scrambled their job was to patrol air space. They knew something was suspect, they weren't sure which planes were legitimate threats yet and which weren't. But weren't fucking none of them hanging out 150 FUCKING MILES over the Atlantic.

    Look, I think almost all the conspiracy theorists are fags too. I really do. It's so silly. But when something sounds just too dubious for my brain to possibly tolerate having to reconcile... I can't. I just can't.

    My mind, in all honestly, will not allow me to accept this. It would be more retarded than anything I could fathom if this were the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target's location. Second, a "generic" flight plan-prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly-incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go "090 for 60" superseded the original scramble order.153
    It was 60 miles, and 150 away from DC not 150 miles off shore. They only had four fighters on alert for the East Coast,so the ones from New York had to fly down to DC, after going 60 miles off shore.

    The thing is that they didn't seriously expect this kind of attack, these systems were developed during the Cold War when we had the kind protections in place that your grandfather was talking about. Since the wall fell we became more and more complacent in protecting ourselves, and still believed that any attack would come from outside the US. According to the report almost all of the drills and theories involved planes from abroad being highjacked and then taken into the US. that is why they might have had the 90 for 60 order on the books. It really was a clusterfuck and the military just wasn't ready for that type of attack. You are right it is fucking stupid, but that doesn't make it anyless true.

  27. #117
    Coachella Junkie frozen pilgrim's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    me @ this thread:

  28. #118
    Coachella Junkie Blinken's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsblend420 View Post
    I'm still not understanding what happened to the Israeli spies that were connected to 9-11, rounded up, and deported a week or so after. Fox News, of all people, reported on the story then it suddenly disappeared off their website.



    it goes on and on..............
    You aren't serious about this shit and the thermite are you? It was an early report that was wrong. Lots of early reporting is inaccurate.

  29. #119
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Blinken View Post
    It was 60 miles, and 150 away from DC not 150 miles off shore. They only had four fighters on alert for the East Coast,so the ones from New York had to fly down to DC, after going 60 miles off shore.

    The thing is that they didn't seriously expect this kind of attack, these systems were developed during the Cold War when we had the kind protections in place that your grandfather was talking about. Since the wall fell we became more and more complacent in protecting ourselves, and still believed that any attack would come from outside the US. According to the report almost all of the drills and theories involved planes from abroad being highjacked and then taken into the US. that is why they might have had the 90 for 60 order on the books. It really was a clusterfuck and the military just wasn't ready for that type of attack. You are right it is fucking stupid, but that doesn't make it anyless true.
    Um, no. I don't think you understand where D.C. is. There is no way they flew 150 miles at a bearing of dead east and were only 60 miles off-shore. D.C. practically IS the fucking shore. You're Canadian. Just stay out of it.

    They flew at a bearing of 090 (due East) for what was supposed to be sixty miles. Somehow they ended up 150 miles in that direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  30. #120
    Coachella Junkie boarderwoozel3's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories

    Either way, I don't buy that our military was caught unprepared. As the richest and therefore most powerful war machine in the world, I refuse to believe that we could be caught with our pants down. Did we have a step 1-2-3-etc. for that exact scenario? Who knows, but surely they could hash out a general idea of how to something like that on the fly. (no pun intended, sort of)

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