The Cooking Thread

[malcolmjamalawesome]

Speak of the devil I just found this http://www.crateandbarrel.com/all-cl...ith-lid/f53612

[Courtney]

BOOM.

[chairmenmeow47]

i want to hear more about this lid preference

[malcolmjamalawesome]

It's not so much of a "preference" as sheer practicality. Sometimes you need to cover what's cooking in your skillet.

[jackstraw94086]

All-clad's 9" french skillet has an awesome domed lid.
It's an awesome all around general purpose pan.

Here it is on sale
http://www.chefscornerstore.com/all-...A#.Ut4knBw75L8

stay away from all-clad's latest 11" french skillet.

[chairmenmeow47]

It's not so much of a "preference" as sheer practicality. Sometimes you need to cover what's cooking in your skillet.

well yeah, but i guess i've never been frustrated with a lid so i'm not sure what sort of problems people run into.

[nosurprises12]

So I'm going to try making a simple chicken broth, as I have 8 raw thigh bones with some meat still on them. Reading online it seems pretty simple, but for those with some experience is this essentially what the process is?

Put bones in a stock pot or Dutch oven with some roughly chopped carrot, celery, onion, parsley, and bay leaf
Pour in filtered water an inch or two above solids and bring to boil
Reduce to low simmer and let it go for a long time, skimming the stuff which comes to the top
Run through colander and place liquid in fridge overnight
Skim fat in the morning

Are there any steps I am missing/could do a bit differently? Also, I have a 6qt. stock pot and a 5.5qt. Dutch oven - is one better than the other to use?

[TomAz]

peppercorns.

the "inch or two above solids" is fine but what you get will be a function of the dimensions of your pan and how many solids you put in. You can always add water if there's not enough or reduce, when you're done, if it's too watery.

the key here is to not let the boiling get too vigorous. you want to be able to skim as many of the impurities as you can. a rolling boil will just emulsify a lot of that.

After draining through the colander, you could further strain the broth if you have a fine mesh strainer. this will get specks and shit out. if that's important to you.

don't salt it until you're done. if you salt it to taste then reduce it, you'll wind up with something too salty.

another option is to roast the bones first but if you just want a simple broth that's not necessary.

I would use a stock pot, this sort of thing is what it is designed for. the dutch oven will give you a different ratio of liquid to solid and also a different evap rate (wider pot = more surface area = higher evap rate, all other things being equal).

but these are all details. you have it right. it's not rocket science.

[TomAz]

one other thing: 8 thigh bones isn't a lot of bones. you may find you need to reduce the final broth more than you thought to get it to taste the way you want.

[mountmccabe]

I agree with what Tom says.

You want the water you use to start out cold. And you want to pick the pot that is the tallest, which probably means the stock pot.

I tend to roast bones and even vegetables before making the stock but this is a flavor preference and not necessary.

I would also add about a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, white vinegar or white wine. This will help break down the bones.


I like to make ice cubes with the stock I am not going to use right away (the stock will only keep like 3 days) which makes it easy to add a splash of stock to a sauce, roasted vegetables, etc.

[TomAz]

for what it's worth:

http://shadowcook.com/2007/11/29/tho...chicken-broth/

[nosurprises12]

Thanks for the advice, guys; I realize making stock is a relatively simple process, but like all simple things the devil is in the details so these little tips really are helpful.

With the small amount of bones I currently have, would it be better to just wait until I get some more (they came from an 8-pack of chicken thighs which I deboned) or just use, like, one carrot, half an onion, and a few stalks of celery along with the herbs and spices?

[mountmccabe]

for what it's worth:

http://shadowcook.com/2007/11/29/tho...chicken-broth/

What the hell. 40 minutes? I understand it'll take a while to get to that point but shit.

Ahh, reading the comments the blogger notes that Keller is after a light taste and does not want any gelatin. This short cooking time is also why he has to finely dice his aromatics. And no vinegar or wine. I might at some point try out a light stock but what I have made thus far has been heavier, thicker stocks (hence roasting the bones).

If you are going for a thicker, heavier stock with gelatin I would plan for a light simmer for at least 6 hours, until the bones start to break down. And if this is the case there is no reason to dice your aromatics.

Thanks for the advice, guys; I realize making stock is a relatively simple process, but like all simple things the devil is in the details so these little tips really are helpful.

With the small amount of bones I currently have, would it be better to just wait until I get some more (they came from an 8-pack of chicken thighs which I deboned) or just use, like, one carrot, half an onion, and a few stalks of celery along with the herbs and spices?

I would probably save them until you have three or more pounds of bones because of how much time making the stock takes. Though yes, you certainly could make a small batch and that would be a good way to do it. (The other way would be to make it a Mostly Vegetable Stock with a little Chicken).

I keep fowl bones, beef bones and excess vegetables in separate bags the freezer. Whenever I buy too much celery, carrots, onion, leeks or whatever it gets rough chopped and thrown in the bag. Next time I have a free weekend I am going to make beef stock and I already have enough vegetables ready to defrost and use.

[TomAz]

I agree, save the bones (you can freeze them) till you have a bunch more.

[nosurprises12]

Thanks again guys!

[jackstraw94086]

I have the luxury of having couple butchers close that sell chicken (and other) bones very cheap. I realize others don't, but many don't even realize that's even a thing. I'd look into it.

[nosurprises12]

^ Great idea; there are a few stores in my area that I can think of to ask.

[Courtney]

I also think that's why Keller chooses to include chicken feet in his recipe: super cheap for lots of flavor.

I'm like John in that I keep ziplock bags in my freezer with bits and pieces to eventually add to stock. Every single time I peel a carrot, chop the end off a celery stalk, or peel an onion, all that extra stuff goes in the stock bag instead of the compost bin. I cook regularly, but I'm still always surprised at how quick the bag fills up.

[mountmccabe]

Actually I don't use scraps and peels, really. It is my understanding that they will make a bitter stock.

What I mean is I will buy a head of celery, use four or five stalks and then the rest will sit. I don't use it in that many things and don't eat it raw. I would buy four stalks if they sold them that way (for less than a full head) but they don't. So half a head would just be thrown out so instead I will cut off the base and the leaves and put the otherwise good stalks in the freezer bag. The base and the leaves go in the compost bin (in season) or trash.

Most other stock vegetables are somewhat similar, though I will eat carrots a lot and use onions and leeks far more often. And I suppose I don't generally eat fennel stalks, onion stalks or similar anyway so when available they just get trimmed and stuck in the freezer. And, really, these things I buy almost as much for the stalks to make stock as for the standard vegetable part.

Though I have never using peelings, leaves, bases, etc for stock. It might be interesting to make a (Mostly) Vegetable Stock with bits like that and see how it comes out. If I can't taste any problems that would increase my ability to make stock.

[jackstraw94086]

I'd be wary of adding too many leaves as they might produce an unappetizing color without imparting significant flavor. If you try it you might want to keep extra onion skins around to balance the color if it matters.

[marooko]

this stock talk is turning me on.

[chairmenmeow47]

had quite the adventure in the kitchen yesterday making birthday cake. my friend is a producer, so i made little records and tried to write the name of is songs, but only had enough frosting for one. the devils food cake stuck to the pans and took forever to get out. i made fudge frosting and dyed it black to look like a record. the frosting recipe called for making a different fudge recipe, but i was stupid though and instead of keeping it warmer to spread, i let it cool to fudge. so i had to heat it back up and added some milk. it tasted ok, just a little dry. then i made decorative frosting for the label and forgot to add the water. still turned out ok, i just also added blue dye to the whole thing. so i scooped out a tiny bit of white to write with. it was my first time making this kinda frosting though. all in all, it turned out ok!

[Courtney]

Actually I don't use scraps and peels, really. It is my understanding that they will make a bitter stock.

What I mean is I will buy a head of celery, use four or five stalks and then the rest will sit. I don't use it in that many things and don't eat it raw. I would buy four stalks if they sold them that way (for less than a full head) but they don't. So half a head would just be thrown out so instead I will cut off the base and the leaves and put the otherwise good stalks in the freezer bag. The base and the leaves go in the compost bin (in season) or trash.

Most other stock vegetables are somewhat similar, though I will eat carrots a lot and use onions and leeks far more often. And I suppose I don't generally eat fennel stalks, onion stalks or similar anyway so when available they just get trimmed and stuck in the freezer. And, really, these things I buy almost as much for the stalks to make stock as for the standard vegetable part.

Though I have never using peelings, leaves, bases, etc for stock. It might be interesting to make a (Mostly) Vegetable Stock with bits like that and see how it comes out. If I can't taste any problems that would increase my ability to make stock.

I just meant that we are similar in that we both stockpile stock ingredients in the freezer.

I don't tend to notice any bitterness when I use scraps, and I include absolutely everything (celery leaves, onion skins, whatever), but I'm also using lovely produce from my local CSA delivery so that could be part of the reason -- or it could be that it's just what I'm used to. I think the only scrap I would be reticent to include would be carrot greens.

[insbordnat]

Couple of thoughts on what has already been said -

Thigh bones aren't the best for making stock, you're ideally going for bones that serve as structure to the rest of the animal and thus have a lot of gelatin and other cartilage/connective tissue. Feet, wings, wing tips, backs, necks, etc. all work great.

I brown my vegetables/meat if I want a darker color and more of a rounded flavor - it depends on what I'm using the stock for.

Time wise I usually aim for about 4 hours on the stove. I'm not one to like the bones to break down too much, despite straining you add a lot of "particulates" which will make the stock murky. Again, depends on what you're using the stock for. If it's a clear soup, you'll want to avoid that. I find with 4 hours that's plenty for all of the flavor to extract and collagen/gelatin to be pulled out. My stock gels in the fridge no problem.

I also agree about the slow slow simmer (not boil) and skimming being critical.

Lastly, for anyone with a pressure cooker I'm curious as to results à la Heston Blumenthal's method.

[Shaxspear]

Lastly, for anyone with a pressure cooker I'm curious as to results à la Heston Blumenthal's method.

I'll give it a whirl sometime. What is the relevance of the skim milk powder?

I did the beef stock recipe from ChefSteps and it turned out really freaking good.

[insbordnat]

I'll give it a whirl sometime. What is the relevance of the skim milk powder?

I did the beef stock recipe from ChefSteps and it turned out really freaking good.

Milk powder apparently helps with the mallard reaction.

[TomAz]

had quite the adventure in the kitchen yesterday making birthday cake. my friend is a producer, so i made little records and tried to write the name of is songs, but only had enough frosting for one. the devils food cake stuck to the pans and took forever to get out. i made fudge frosting and dyed it black to look like a record. the frosting recipe called for making a different fudge recipe, but i was stupid though and instead of keeping it warmer to spread, i let it cool to fudge. so i had to heat it back up and added some milk. it tasted ok, just a little dry. then i made decorative frosting for the label and forgot to add the water. still turned out ok, i just also added blue dye to the whole thing. so i scooped out a tiny bit of white to write with. it was my first time making this kinda frosting though. all in all, it turned out ok!

That record on the left.. does that say 'fore skin'?

[chairmenmeow47]

close! foreign skin

[mountmccabe]

I have about three quarts of beef stock cooling in the refrigerator now. I used the bones from some short ribs I had in the freezer and added some beef chuck neck bones I bought at a new meat market today.

I already have plans to go back to Big Apple Meat Market, the neck bones plus a half pork shoulder (for tomorrow's pulled pork) weren't enough. I plan to get some ducks, lamb and more. They also have chicken neck bones (for $0.88/pound) for next time I am making chicken (slash duck) stock.

[insbordnat]

^Sounds good.

Day after valentine's day dinner - Insalata Rucola, Spaghetti alla Bottarga, Pollo all'Arrabiatta, and a Zabaglione over berries for dessert. Bottle of Heitz '08 Cab.