Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

[schoolofruckus]

I agree entirely with you here. There are in fact more great male authors. This is a fact. But if you read my original comment, you'll see that what I was saying is that this imbalance has more to do with societal factors than any sort of innate talent. It's not that men are smarter, or more talented. It's that historically men have been more encouraged to write, and have been more often given the opportunities to develop and be recognized as great authors. It's no surprise that today the canon of great Western literature is 90% male-written.

Right, but I don't think I was responding to you, I was responding to somebody else saying that girls naturally develop verbal and language skills faster. If that's the case, is it just that they don't progress as far in the long run? And even if we disregard the long history of literature, let's take present day--women in the civilized world are given just as much encouragement as men (if not more) to pursue academia, and still no particularly good authors ('cept for Amy Hempel, who fucking RULES). But I really don't want to get into this whole argument, I'm already starting to feel beaten down by this thread. I've just always found that whole "girls learn this better" and "boys learn this better" stuff to be weird, and suspect that it's bullshit, so I was poking a hole at it with the "girls learn English faster" example. But please, let's not get into a thing, I beg of you.

What I really want to know is, what's the ratio of drug use between girls and boys?

[thelastgreatman]

Brevity!! Please

Brevity isn't one of my strong suits as you can see, but it's about to become so because I just can't talk about this anymore--I'm dying, and I suspect most of you are as well.

No, it was private. I'm not sure how feasible the things you suggested would be in a public school, unless the entire school funding system was fairly drastically altered.

Greater funding would definitely be part of the change, but I think we could offset a lot of the costs by cutting out junior and senior year. 18 is too old to still be babysitting, I think we should get them off to college or into the work force earlier.

Sorry, I guess my comment might have seemed a little bitchy. I didn't mean it as a personal attack. I just think it's irresponsible that colleges take kids who haven't finished high school.

Not everyone is lucky enough to get to finish high school, Court. I was forced out of mine. Some kids have to drop out to support their families if a parent dies. Also, if you'd attended public schools you might have a VERY different opinion of whether or not it's worth your time to stay and finish or drop out. I wish my parents had let me drop out when I turned sixteen and gone to college then--my SAT scores from when I was a freshman were better than when I was a junior, I could've saved two years of shit living.

Your history classes sound shitty. That sucks. But it doesn't mean that history is worthless, and it doesn't mean that you need to generalize it to the point of trying to make everything relevant to current events in order to make history useful. One aspect of history that I think you're perhaps discounting is the way it helps you to think about sources of information, and their varying levels of validity.

I don't know why you take away from my idea that I think history is worthless--in fact I have tremendous respect and place high priority on history, which is why I care a great deal about how it is taught. All history is relevant to current events one way or another, so there's no reason anything need be excluded unless it's truly less educational. And let's please not criticize my very rough outline for what would be a complicated system by assuming that it wouldn't also include elements such as validity of sources and revisionism, et cetera. Nothing need be left out, I just want it taught in a way to make a truly better informed populous, capable of making better decisions.

Somehow we still didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam when we went into Iraq. This is fucked up. If there were more education about the nature of historical success in occupying forces in similar situations, maybe the support wouldn't have been so strong. On the other hand, for some reason Hitler didn't know to ignore Russia, so who the fuck knows? People don't learn, it seems. Maybe his teachers sucked too. =)

I agree, school SHOULD foster an understanding of the subject matter. But what I'm saying is that there is no way you can understand and appreciate contemporary literature without understanding its various references and historical precedents. Of course Joyce's Ulysses is going to seem incomprehensible if you don't read Homer's Odyssey first.

I dislike the idea of having to read one ancient book that's not going to interest most of the students just so they can possibly gain more understanding of another incredibly dense book they're probably not going to appreciate either. Frankly, this is the problem with pre-modern literature--it requires explanation of all kinds of references and influences and other shit. A work should be able to stand on its own. We have a very limited amount of time in which we are allowed to force education upon these kids, let's not waste it by doubling up books that take forever to read and even longer to be explained to the class after having been read. Save that for Classic Literature courses in college.


Alright gang, seriously, I gotta call it quits. I've been writing in this thread all day instead of writing stuff I might actually benefit from. I'm sure you're all glad that it's over too, but I beg of you to just let this die right now 'cause I can't trust myself to resist responding. Good debate, gang.

EDIT: I'm going to respond to the posts that showed up while I was typing all this, then I'm out.

[thelastgreatman]

yet you want to limit the teaching of mathematics. I say everyone should be required to take a statistics course and an economics course in high school. they'd be better able to sniff out the bullshit way politicians use statistics and economic info.

to wit: here's something I just googled and found on Rush Limbaugh's website: the top 5% of earners in the US pay 56% of the taxes. sniff that bullshit.

I listed econ and statistics (maybe I left out statistics, but that was an oversight on my part--I LOVE statistics when applied to societal trends) in the courses I wanted to be mandatory in place of shit like Trig. It's not that I don't value math--but purely academic math is a waste of time unless you want to be a math major, and we could be teaching those much more relevant math-related courses instead. We're in agreement here.

[thelastgreatman]

What I really want to know is, what's the ratio of drug use between girls and boys?

At first I was kinda annoyed that you keep busting my balls about the drugs thing every chance you get, but then I reread it and that's pretty funny. Also, let's find out and see whether or not we can use that as further proof for my claim. And for the last time, goddammit, my argument was not that drug use causes great art, but that great artists are drawn to drug use.

Seriously though, Gabe, my balls hurt. You've hit me with a crack about that convo like seven times in this thread alone I think, is it getting dropped any time soon? =)

I'm reading your script today. You free this weekend for beers?

[TomAz]

I listened econ and statistics in the courses I wanted to be mandatory in place of shit like Trig. It's not that I don't value math--but purely academic math is a waste of time unless you want to be a math major, and we could be teaching those much more relevant math-related courses instead. We're in agreement here.

your definition of what constitutes 'purely academic math' is probably a lot different from mine.

[thelastgreatman]

How about Calc? And a lot of the higher trig functions. Anything that requires a calculator should be banned.

EDIT TO PREVIOUS ABANDONING OF THREAD: if I can respond in two sentences I will. But please stop for my sake, I can't help myself, I'm addicted to debate.

[Courtney]

wtf? You need calc to do a lot of basic economic stuff that's very useful to understand the real world.

[ewiggy]

i have skipped just about every randypost in this thread.

he has nothingman syndrome.

[TomAz]

How about Calc? And a lot of the higher trig functions. Anything that requires a calculator should be banned.

EDIT TO PREVIOUS ABANDONING OF THREAD: if I can respond in two sentences I will. But please stop for my sake, I can't help myself, I'm addicted to debate.

calculus is definitely not 'purely academic math'. but it's not for everyone, i agree.

nor is trig. Hell trig was invented to be useful, it was never 'purely academic' even when it was brand new.

[schoolofruckus]

At first I was kinda annoyed that you keep busting my balls about the drugs thing every chance you get, but then I reread it and that's pretty funny. Also, let's find out and see whether or not we can use that as further proof for my claim. And for the last time, goddammit, my argument was not that drug use causes great art, but that great artists are drawn to drug use.

Seriously though, Gabe, my balls hurt. You've hit me with a crack about that convo like seven times in this thread alone I think, is it getting dropped any time soon? =)

I'm reading your script today. You free this weekend for beers?

Well, considering that I still chuckle somewhat whenever I make one of those snarky remarks, probably not. I'm not going to beat the dead horse forever, but I'm also not going to sell high on a cash cow.

I might be free Sunday. Hit me up when you're finished and we can discuss it then.

[thelastgreatman]

Basic economic stuff? I don't ever remember seeing a practical application for the calc problems I did, but I dropped out a few months into it.

[thelastgreatman]

calculus is definitely not 'purely academic math'. but it's not for everyone, i agree.

nor is trig. Hell trig was invented to be useful, it was never 'purely academic' even when it was brand new.

Basic trig's cool and should be mandatory, in a combined class with Alg 2 which gets pretty unnecessarily academic pretty fast. Fine, I retract the "purely."

[thelastgreatman]

i have skipped just about every randypost in this thread.

he has nothingman syndrome.

Why is it that so many of you seemingly/supposedly intelligent, literate, mature folks who spend your whole day just killing time on this board refuse to read a paragraph longer than five sentences?

I blame the teachers.

[Courtney]

Basic economic stuff? I don't ever remember seeing a practical application for the calc problems I did, but I dropped out a few months into it.

Sure, you need derivatives to be able to calculate something like marginal cost or marginal revenue. These things are useful for figuring out how to optimize a production function.

But don't quiz me on this, please. It's all a little fuzzy. I mean, for goodness sakes, I'm an art critic not an economist!

[ewiggy]

Why is it that so many of you seemingly/supposedly intelligent, literate, mature folks who spend your whole day just killing time on this board refuse to read a paragraph longer than five sentences?

naw, it's not that i won't read paragraphs longer than five sentences - it's that i won't read your paragraphs longer than five sentences.

[thelastgreatman]

I'm pretty sure you could absorb basic macro and microecon classes without knowing calc.

Ewig--you should re-think your position on that, words are my shiznit.

[ewiggy]

ugh.

[SubBass49]

The experience of an educator is secondary to the experience of a student, Sub, because what we're trying to accomplish here is about the students, not you and your fellow "examples." All of you cunts need to be stripped of your control and the structure rebuilt to make you accountable.

Oh, and I hope you get a little dose of some Virginia Tech appreciation for your noble efforts from your students. Seriously, I do. You're a dumb cunt, you shouldn't be teaching.

Last time I checked, WE WERE ALL STUDENTS AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER...damn fool...you need to quit the drugs. Talk about a dumb cunt for fuck's sake.

And yeah...I appreciate the wishes of death for doing my job and trying to make a difference...I really do. But see, the thing is that the kids wouldn't WANT to go after me like that, because lots of times I'm the only one that's ever bothered to listen to them. I've been teaching for almost 6 years now, and I've probably gotten psychological counseling for AT LEAST twelve kids...probably more...that were ready to commit suicide. I've gotten help for many more that were ready to do violent things, who had serious eating disorders, who were in abusive home situations, etc. I've provided shelter & protection to the kids who didn't fit in anywhere on campus to come to my classroom during breaks and lunch to be safe and have fun rather than worrying about who was going to push them around that day. So sorry to burst your little bubble, but even though my school is not seen as "safe" by outsiders, I feel VERY safe when I'm there, because the kids know I actually care.

Oh, and nevre mind what I said about you becoming a teacher...I don't think you're mentally stable enough (or capable for that matter). You strike me as a danger to yourself and others.

[algunz]

OMG!

Are you people still talking?

[thelastgreatman]

I don't think you should be shot just because you're a teacher, I think you should be shot because you're a self-righteous twat who can't stop patting himself on the back in every thread I read where you're involved.

Oh, and also you should be shot just because of the lyric in your sig--that's the most amateur political coupling I've ever heard.

[algunz]

All extremists should be shot.

[SubBass49]

Why do teachers complain so much about their pay? If the pay was really that bad, nobody would elect to become a teacher.

I reject the idea that teaching is more stressful than most other jobs. All jobs have stress.

Teachers get far more vacation time than nearly every other regular profession. Most working people get 2 lousy weeks of vacation and a few holidays. Teachers get the whole summer off (with pay), along with a very generous list of holidays (such as a week for spring break). On top of this, they usually also get to take at least 2 weeks paid vacation.

Finally, teachers enjoy job security that most people don't. Tenured teachers basically can't be fired, unless they literally commit a crime or violate a major code of ethics. Again, such job security isn't typically seen in other professions. Even non-tenured teachers get way too many "second chances" after screwing up.

Bottom line: Like most professions, teaching has its good points and bad points. I'm tired of teachers acting like they're constantly getting the short end of the stick, because they're not. Furthermore, nearly everyone who goes into teaching is aware of the pay and the requirements of the job. If that's not for you, don't head down that career path.

Pretty funny how many false ideas there are about teachers getting fired...most unions don't have a problem with bad teachers being fired, but they DO require documentation of problems in order to keep it from being politicized. The REAL bottom line is that you don't know what you're talking about. There are formal evaluations and written reprimands placed in a teacher's file before they can be removed from a school. The only times whena teacher gets away with horrible shit is when either no one complains, or the admin team is too lazy to do their jobs and document it. BOTTOM LINE. Oh, and by the way...I DON'T get paid during the summer. From the last day of June until the last day of September, I'm living off the money I was able to save during the school year, which usually isn't much.

[SubBass49]

If teacher pay was insufficient, there would be a huge shortage of teachers. But somehow there isn't such a shortage.

Actually there is is most places...

I thought there was a shortage of teachers. Just look at how big class sizes are.

Partially due to politicians being afraid to raise property taxes (in most places the primary means of funding schools).

[thelastgreatman]

Algunz, let's shoot both the extremists and the moderates and let the indifferents make all the decisions. It'll be great.

[algunz]

Then we'll end up like the planet in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. What were those guys called?

We'd drown in beaurocracy. That's all that indifference creates. Hmmm . . . wait a second . . .

[SubBass49]

OMG!

Are you people still talking?

I was at work all day while you guys carried on...didn't get a chance to respond to most of this until just now.

I don't think you should be shot just because you're a teacher, I think you should be shot because you're a self-righteous twat who can't stop patting himself on the back in every thread I read where you're involved.

Oh, and also you should be shot just because of the lyric in your sig--that's the most amateur political coupling I've ever heard.

Hahaha! Hahahahaha!!! Wow...the idea of YOU calling ME a self-righteous twat...damn. You really have no sense of irony do you? You...the man who spent an entire day arguing on a message board about how he wants to remake the entirety of public education in America in his own image of what education should be, while wishing death upon teachers repeatedly...has the nerve to call ME a self-righteous twat. Amusing.

As for the lyric in my signature, at least I have the balls to put something out there into the public space rather than running from my own emotions by abusing hard drugs and wasting my life away...talking big but living small.

[algunz]

And don't forget that LGM is milking money away from good things like education by abusing the Unemployment program.

[algunz]

I just realized it. LGM, you're campaigning to win this poll. I'll wear your stickers and help you hang your posters.

[SubBass49]

Haha...not for long though...California's new budget calls for elimination of some of the wasteful welfare programs and shortened stays on the rolls...enjoy your welfare-to-work program LGM. Perhaps you can try to poison my donut at Krispy Kreme...

[ewiggy]

algunz, i asked you a question but it got buried about a page back.

where do you teach?