View Poll Results: Which Board Member Do You Want To Hit The Most?

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  • TheLastGreatMan

    7 14.89%
  • DeltaSigChi

    11 23.40%
  • Psychic Friend (she's into that sort of thing)

    3 6.38%
  • TomAz

    4 8.51%
  • Bug on your lip

    1 2.13%
  • Full On Idle

    1 2.13%
  • Suprefan

    6 12.77%
  • Ewiggy

    3 6.38%
  • Yablonowitz

    7 14.89%
  • SubBass

    4 8.51%
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Thread: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

  1. #211
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    As far as the history goes, I'm saying change the priority of how the material is presented from chronology to relevancy. Half of my American history classes were completely useless knowledge, truly were, but because the system was designed to explain what happened from this year to this year we had to go through it. I want the curriculum structured by themes and let them jump in time, not by time itself. Teach that which is most important first, not which came first first.
    History can't and shouldn't be reduced to a collection of events categorized into genres to color our modern lives. There is more to a knowledge of the past than being able to use it to inform your personal decisions and opinions. The very process of teaching a linear progression of cause and effect plotpoints and all the effort requried on the part of the student to analyze and retain that information is key to specific areas of mental development. What happens when 10 years down the line what is relevant to the present changes dramatically and one generation is left with an entirely different collection of gaps in historical data than the last? What happens when those children grow up and what they were taught in school is no longer relevant? Things can certainly be done better in the education system, but there are hundreds of years of thought behind the general methods by which education takes place.

  2. #212
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    that didn't answer my question randy.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  3. #213
    Coachella Junkie algunz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Teachers are nailed to the standards. Our jobs are beginning to depend on those standards, especially here in CA. We, as teachers, don't make those standards, but we have to do what we can to incorporate them into our curriculum. Do I give two shits about those standards? No, I don't. But, if I ignore them, then I am not doing my job according to the government. Yes, these standards need to be reevaluated. But, I have so much more going on in my life beside my job that I don't have the energy to "fight the powers that be."

  4. #214
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algunz View Post
    Teachers are nailed to the standards. Our jobs are beginning to depend on those standards, especially here in CA. We, as teachers, don't make those standards, but we have to do what we can to incorporate them into our curriculum.
    that's the whole point of having standards.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  5. #215
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Pot, you're assuming I'm talking about only what is relevant to this immediate present. This is not the case, and there is no reason why my curriculum cannot dip just as much into the extents of history as the current methods, except with 25 percent of the time spent on the last century instead of less than 10 percent. The idea is not to just be teaching the present, but to be teaching all the way through the past in accordance with the traceable patterns in all fields of relevance and not just moving from A-B.

    Think of The Prince, right? That tiny book is a pretty goddamn good education in itself about all government in general but obviously not so modern. Machiavelli is effective because he doesn't try to teach the Prince by starting with the first ruler ever and proceeding down the line--he goes in subjects, and parses back through history with each subject. As far as I'm concerned, that book might be the best example of an educational text you can find--it's concise and provides excellently reasoned cases with specific examples that cover an extremely wide range of both time and geography. Why can't we design our own system in a similar manner?
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  6. #216
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    TomAz - Yes, but who's to say that these standards fit the current climate and demographic of all of our schools.

  7. #217
    MENACING Courtney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    So I finally bothered to read this thread in its entirety. Boy do you all like to ramble on.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    All that it is right now is a facade to keep kids off the streets and teach them socialization, the supposed "education" is largely irrelevant after 6th grade or so. All high school is classes to prepare you for the classes you'll have to take in college that will all end up being completely worthless when they graduate.
    Surely you don't mean this. Maybe you consider your particular educational experience to be worthless, but a good education is not. I think it's fairly self-evident what the value is of critical thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    (b) Shift the focus of the entire history department off of early American History (I dunno about y'alls, but my school required two years American History that ended around Vietnam and only one year World History that ended sometime in the 16th century) and start designing the curriculum to trace the broader trends throughout history and their specific relevance to current events.

    (c) Make all maths above algebra 2 (if that far) completely optional. Instead, make at least one of each of the following courses mandatory: philosophy, sociology, psychology, government, macroeconomics, and a couple others, you get the idea.
    My high school actually did these things you're suggesting. It emphasized world history over American history, only required math classes through Algebra II and then you were allowed to place out, and required that you take your choice of several electives including things like philosophy, psychology and economics. It worked very well, but then again its success may also have been due to the kinds of teachers and students it attracted, not necessarily the curriculum itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by amyzzz View Post
    (I was number 8 in my high school class--surprise, surprise)
    Gold star.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    I was joking/baiting with the comment, although in all seriousness how about we compile some lists of the great literary works and see what the balance of gender is amongst the authors? Only female writer I've ever known to be particularly tolerable is Amy Hempel, although I know a lot of you are Ayn Rand fans (still can't fathom how).
    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    But tell you what--why don't you all throw down as many supposedly good female writers as you like--except for Jane Austen, she will not be acknowledged. All you ladies can collaborate on it, team up on me, do your absolute best. Again, this was largely tongue in cheek. But I'll bet each of you fifty bucks that I alone--and I promise to not even cheat and use the net--can name more male authors that almost everyone will either acknowledge to be a great author or at least recognize that the literary cognoscenti seem to believe they are. Your list will be contain vastly more "what did she write again?" than mine.

    Or, we could just go through any of those 100 greatest novels of all time style lists and see how the genders stack.
    I agree entirely with you here. There are in fact more great male authors. This is a fact. But if you read my original comment, you'll see that what I was saying is that this imbalance has more to do with societal factors than any sort of innate talent. It's not that men are smarter, or more talented. It's that historically men have been more encouraged to write, and have been more often given the opportunities to develop and be recognized as great authors. It's no surprise that today the canon of great Western literature is 90% male-written.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Nope, I didn't finish high school--I dropped out to start college a year early. Was a real loser move on my part, I know. It's nice when your SATs, awards, and a G.E.D. can get you into just about any second-tier University you want, though.
    What on earth kind of crappy college would let you attend after only three years of high school at a (from your description) mediocre school? That's some irresponsible shit. The only college I know of that does that is Simon's Rock College of Bard, but that doesn't even really count as a real college.

    Quote Originally Posted by SubBass49 View Post
    Do you realize that teachers with Masters Degrees make less than business majors thata re fresh out of college with a Bachelors? Do you know aobut the stresses teachers handle on a daily basis?
    Sorry, but getting a master's degree doesn't make you all that special. They're probably the easiest degree to get out there. Certainly easier to get than a bachelor's. And if you were silly enough to pay for it yourself instead of going to teach at a private school where they'd pay for it for you, don't get mad at us about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    1) Your personal experiences, assuming you're telling the truth about them, are in no way substantial evidence to judge the teaching profession as a whole.
    I find myself shocked by how much I'm agreeing with that was said by Randy here.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    History is only relevant in demonstrating repeating trends that we can use to predict the future, and America's short lifespan makes it a lesser resource for these trends.
    Wow; you didn't really say that, did you? Yes, history is useful so that we as a society and nation don't repeat past mistakes. But as an academic discipline, it's just another vehicle for learning how to read, process information, create substantial individual thought express said thoughts. Surely that's the real value of history classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    But one can rather easily determine that Shakespeare is going to strike less of a chord with most short-attention spanned students who can't understand the very language of the play anyway than, say, Catcher In The Rye which still hooks a decent number of kids despite being utter tripe.
    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    What we should be doing with the public schools is (a) completely changing the reading curriculum to focus on books that might actually engage children's desire to read instead of stuffing Shakespeare and Dickens and other "classics" that only make sense to 90 percent of them because the entire English class is spent by the teacher explaining whatever chapters they read last night back to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    All I'm saying is from grade 7-12 the ration of shit written prior to 1900 against modern was ridiculous, like 15:1. Let's at least spend half our time in this century, and again I'd like to see more focus on truly recent authors that might still be writing, and thus could engage students to want to follow their career, making a literature fan out of them. The key is that we get them interested in reading again.
    So I take it that you don't like Shakespeare, Dickens, and the like. I don't either, to tell you the truth. They're boring. But I do think that you need to learn them anyway, because they are part of a shared cultural currency. The same thing goes for the Bible in my opinion. Even though something like Hamlet may not be the most enjoyable thing to read, you need to know it because it is ingrained in our culture and you'll miss a lot of really interesting references if you don't. And that includes references in modern and contemporary writing that you probably find more acceptable like James Joyce or Aldous Huxley.

  8. #218
    zeezus amyzzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Courtney, that's about all it was worth (a gold star). Oh, and I got free state college tuition.
    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    i fucking hate women with their lives together who try and help other people. where are the needy bitches at?!

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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Tom--you mean about the Christian right? Dude, the truth is I pretty much don't support anything unless I'm the one who's going to be in charge. No, of course I wouldn't be happy about it being designed by the Christian right, but who's to say that it isn't already and that that's our problem that my overhaul might be resolved? American schools' history is overly ethnocentric. Fuck it, I'm going to argue that your hypothesis is not a hypothesis at all but in fact our current reality--we're dealing with the mistakes of a Christian-designed history curriculum, so that's why we need these changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Oh my god you fuckers are requiring me to type a shitload here... Courtney, goddammit, I'm exhausted already. But alright, another big long fucking reply post coming...
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Tom--you mean about the Christian right? Dude, the truth is I pretty much don't support anything unless I'm the one who's going to be in charge. No, of course I wouldn't be happy about it being designed by the Christian right, but who's to say that it isn't already and that that's our problem that my overhaul might be resolved? American schools' history is overly ethnocentric. Fuck it, I'm going to argue that your hypothesis is not a hypothesis at all but in fact our current reality--we're dealing with the mistakes of a Christian-designed history curriculum, so that's why we need these changes.
    see, this is where I suspected you were going all along. You want things shaped according to your priorities and your viewpoints and fuck what anyone else thinks. that's not how democracy works. you (or me or anyone else) don't get your way all the time. other people with different viewpoints, who also have the right to vote, get to have input too. you can disagree with their viewpoints, but you can't (in any principled way) disagree with their right to have their say and try to influence things any more than they can disagree with yours.

    So, no, I don't think we have a Christian-designed history curriculum, at least not in most places. We have a history curriculum that was designed by a political process which by necessity had to factor in what everybody wanted, christians and othewise.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  12. #222
    MENACING Courtney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Oh my god you fuckers are requiring me to type a shitload here... Courtney, goddammit, I'm exhausted already. But alright, another big long fucking reply post coming...
    Try to be concise please. Or at least as much as is possible for you. I have a short attention span.

  13. #223
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    It must have been too much MTV.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Pot, you're assuming I'm talking about only what is relevant to this immediate present. This is not the case, and there is no reason why my curriculum cannot dip just as much into the extents of history as the current methods, except with 25 percent of the time spent on the last century instead of less than 10 percent. The idea is not to just be teaching the present, but to be teaching all the way through the past in accordance with the traceable patterns in all fields of relevance and not just moving from A-B.
    You basically missed my point. You're talking about something more akin to sociology than history. Courtney summed it up fairly well, history is one method by which we develop educated human beings. Chronological history. It is not a tool for shaping minds ideologically.

  15. #225
    minorse wrangler ewiggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    im leaning towards yabs. that fucker.

  16. #226
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Why do teachers complain so much about their pay? If the pay was really that bad, nobody would elect to become a teacher.

    I reject the idea that teaching is more stressful than most other jobs. All jobs have stress.

    Teachers get far more vacation time than nearly every other regular profession. Most working people get 2 lousy weeks of vacation and a few holidays. Teachers get the whole summer off (with pay), along with a very generous list of holidays (such as a week for spring break). On top of this, they usually also get to take at least 2 weeks paid vacation.

    Finally, teachers enjoy job security that most people don't. Tenured teachers basically can't be fired, unless they literally commit a crime or violate a major code of ethics. Again, such job security isn't typically seen in other professions. Even non-tenured teachers get way too many "second chances" after screwing up.

    Bottom line: Like most professions, teaching has its good points and bad points. I'm tired of teachers acting like they're constantly getting the short end of the stick, because they're not. Furthermore, nearly everyone who goes into teaching is aware of the pay and the requirements of the job. If that's not for you, don't head down that career path.
    Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

  17. #227
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    I wanna hit all my teachers.

  18. #228
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    I peronsally think teachers should be paid more.
    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    i fucking hate women with their lives together who try and help other people. where are the needy bitches at?!

  19. #229
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    So I finally bothered to read this thread in its entirety. Boy do you all like to ramble on.

    Surely you don't mean this. Maybe you consider your particular educational experience to be worthless, but a good education is not. I think it's fairly self-evident what the value is of critical thinking.
    Courtney, you misread me--I consider a good education experience to be fucking invaluable, but that is not what our schools are currently focused on doing. They are designed to socially engineer and babysit, education is distantly second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    My high school actually did these things you're suggesting. It emphasized world history over American history, only required math classes through Algebra II and then you were allowed to place out, and required that you take your choice of several electives including things like philosophy, psychology and economics. It worked very well, but then again its success may also have been due to the kinds of teachers and students it attracted, not necessarily the curriculum itself.
    Was this a public school? If so, bravo to them, but it doesn't sound like it could be. But either way, you're providing anecdotal evidence to back my argument. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    I agree entirely with you here. There are in fact more great male authors. This is a fact. But if you read my original comment, you'll see that what I was saying is that this imbalance has more to do with societal factors than any sort of innate talent. It's not that men are smarter, or more talented. It's that historically men have been more encouraged to write, and have been more often given the opportunities to develop and be recognized as great authors. It's no surprise that today the canon of great Western literature is 90% male-written.
    Right, but I don't think I was responding to you, I was responding to somebody else saying that girls naturally develop verbal and language skills faster. If that's the case, is it just that they don't progress as far in the long run? And even if we disregard the long history of literature, let's take present day--women in the civilized world are given just as much encouragement as men (if not more) to pursue academia, and still no particularly good authors ('cept for Amy Hempel, who fucking RULES). But I really don't want to get into this whole argument, I'm already starting to feel beaten down by this thread. I've just always found that whole "girls learn this better" and "boys learn this better" stuff to be weird, and suspect that it's bullshit, so I was poking a hole at it with the "girls learn English faster" example. But please, let's not get into a thing, I beg of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    What on earth kind of crappy college would let you attend after only three years of high school at a (from your description) mediocre school? That's some irresponsible shit. The only college I know of that does that is Simon's Rock College of Bard, but that doesn't even really count as a real college.
    Monmouth University. Not a great school by any means, certainly not where I was supposed to be going when I started high school, but it was nearby and it's not a complete jerkoff. I dunno, anyone that wants to knock me down a peg feel free to see what it's ranking or rating or whatever the fuck is, I'd be interested sorta. My SATs saved me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    Sorry, but getting a master's degree doesn't make you all that special. They're probably the easiest degree to get out there. Certainly easier to get than a bachelor's. And if you were silly enough to pay for it yourself instead of going to teach at a private school where they'd pay for it for you, don't get mad at us about it.
    Word up to all that. Which reminds me--at least four times I had teachers and professors say to me, "I have a Master's Degree, you're not going to prove I'm wrong." In all cases they were wrong, of course, and in all cases cunts about it, as demonstrated. A debate teacher even pulled that on me once, and I was like, "Um, argument from authority? Don't you remember teaching us how that's invalid only like two weeks ago?" Such very, very stupid people, so convinced that their jobs mean they're smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    I find myself shocked by how much I'm agreeing with that was said by Randy here.
    Um, thanks? ::shrug::

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    Wow; you didn't really say that, did you? Yes, history is useful so that we as a society and nation don't repeat past mistakes. But as an academic discipline, it's just another vehicle for learning how to read, process information, create substantial individual thought express said thoughts. Surely that's the real value of history classes.
    None of my history classes ever did that, Court. What they did is had us copy notes while they talked all period, then prepare us for the essay tests, then take the essay tests. And I'd say that by focusing on learning how to trace causality, identify patterns in human behavior, analyze mass social trends, understand cultural differences, et cetera, that you would almost certainly in the process accomplish the comprehension goals you set forth. It's just like Philosophy--Philosophy teaches you fucking nothing useful except how to think. History can do both, but currently isn't doing either in our public schools particularly well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    So I take it that you don't like Shakespeare, Dickens, and the like. I don't either, to tell you the truth. They're boring. But I do think that you need to learn them anyway, because they are part of a shared cultural currency. The same thing goes for the Bible in my opinion. Even though something like Hamlet may not be the most enjoyable thing to read, you need to know it because it is ingrained in our culture and you'll miss a lot of really interesting references if you don't. And that includes references in modern and contemporary writing that you probably find more acceptable like James Joyce or Aldous Huxley.
    Um... nope, sorry, the focus of the school should be on fostering passion, interest, and understanding of the subject matter, not making sure that every kid has read some half-century old shit just because stodgy old bastards say it's important. I think in this day and age with falling literacy rates and a dying fiction literature industry, we should be focusing English classes on returning enjoyment of books to the culture. I also believe that the only way to learn to write well is to read good writing, so cultural relevance takes a far backseat to overall quality, and between Dickens' serialization and Shakespeare's Olde English neither could be said to be useful in teaching children how to write effectively.

    And I'm almost positive Ulysses is unreadable, actually. Huxley's fine, but Brave New World didn't really grab me by the balls the way that it seemed to for most people.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by amyzzz View Post
    I peronsally think teachers should be paid more.
    If teacher pay was insufficient, there would be a huge shortage of teachers. But somehow there isn't such a shortage.
    Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

  21. #231
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    I thought there was a shortage of teachers. Just look at how big class sizes are.
    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    i fucking hate women with their lives together who try and help other people. where are the needy bitches at?!

  22. #232
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    lots of jobs with insufficient pay are well staffed.

    people take jobs for reasons other than the money, sometimes.

  23. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    see, this is where I suspected you were going all along. You want things shaped according to your priorities and your viewpoints and fuck what anyone else thinks. that's not how democracy works. you (or me or anyone else) don't get your way all the time. other people with different viewpoints, who also have the right to vote, get to have input too. you can disagree with their viewpoints, but you can't (in any principled way) disagree with their right to have their say and try to influence things any more than they can disagree with yours.

    So, no, I don't think we have a Christian-designed history curriculum, at least not in most places. We have a history curriculum that was designed by a political process which by necessity had to factor in what everybody wanted, christians and othewise.
    Tom, that's all I ever want. See, you've mislabeled me as an attention whore, when in actuality I'm just a solipsist with a god complex. And I don't even understand your argument here--are you just saying that I shouldn't expect to get my way? I don't. At least, not unless my plans to seize power actually pan out some day. But if you're just saying "well you want the world to work the way you think it should," um... everyone does.

    Was our history curriculum designed a political process? If so, was anyone involved non-Christian, do you think? What percentage? We're talking about American politicians here, right? Sounds like it was probably pretty fucking Christian. Like you said, this is a democracy--it doesn't necessarily handle what everybody wants, it handles what the democracy wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  24. #234
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Right now in OC, we are dealing with a shortage of students. My school is losing 3 teachers because we don't have enough kids. They are all moving out to the 909.

  25. #235
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    You basically missed my point. You're talking about something more akin to sociology than history. Courtney summed it up fairly well, history is one method by which we develop educated human beings. Chronological history. It is not a tool for shaping minds ideologically.
    No, I get your point, but see my response to Courtney and I think what we end up with is just a difference of opinion about whether or not my non-chronological method could accomplish our shared goals. Any chronological history is going to have gaps too, gaps are unavoidable. I'd like the gaps to be moved to sometime that isn't the past thirty years. Maybe, just maybe, the youth vote would actually have turned out against Bush if they'd ever been educated about the last few decades and all collectively realized, "Hey, wait a minute... every time the Republicans are in power recently some fucked up shit happens. I mean, it almost looks like their... fucking bastards. Maybe I won't listen to Mom and Dad telling me to vote for lower taxes." Not to turn this into a political thing, it's just a thought I had when I noticed how many kids STILL voted for Bush in 2004.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  26. #236
    minorse wrangler ewiggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by algunz View Post
    Right now in OC
    What school do you teach at?

  27. #237
    MENACING Courtney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Brevity!! Please

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Courtney, you misread me--I consider a good education experience to be fucking invaluable, but that is not what our schools are currently focused on doing. They are designed to socially engineer and babysit, education is distantly second.
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Was this a public school? If so, bravo to them, but it doesn't sound like it could be. But either way, you're providing anecdotal evidence to back my argument. Thanks.
    No, it was private. I'm not sure how feasible the things you suggested would be in a public school, unless the entire school funding system was fairly drastically altered.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    And even if we disregard the long history of literature, let's take present day--women in the civilized world are given just as much encouragement as men (if not more) to pursue academia, and still no particularly good authors ('cept for Amy Hempel, who fucking RULES). But I really don't want to get into this whole argument, I'm already starting to feel beaten down by this thread. I've just always found that whole "girls learn this better" and "boys learn this better" stuff to be weird, and suspect that it's bullshit, so I was poking a hole at it with the "girls learn English faster" example. But please, let's not get into a thing, I beg of you.
    I think it's fairly obvious that there's a normal lag time when it comes to historical inequalities in society. But we don't need to get into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Monmouth University. Not a great school by any means, certainly not where I was supposed to be going when I started high school, but it was nearby and it's not a complete jerkoff. I dunno, anyone that wants to knock me down a peg feel free to see what it's ranking or rating or whatever the fuck is, I'd be interested sorta. My SATs saved me.
    Sorry, I guess my comment might have seemed a little bitchy. I didn't mean it as a personal attack. I just think it's irresponsible that colleges take kids who haven't finished high school.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    None of my history classes ever did that, Court. What they did is had us copy notes while they talked all period, then prepare us for the essay tests, then take the essay tests. And I'd say that by focusing on learning how to trace causality, identify patterns in human behavior, analyze mass social trends, understand cultural differences, et cetera, that you would almost certainly in the process accomplish the comprehension goals you set forth. It's just like Philosophy--Philosophy teaches you fucking nothing useful except how to think. History can do both, but currently isn't doing either in our public schools particularly well.
    Your history classes sound shitty. That sucks. But it doesn't mean that history is worthless, and it doesn't mean that you need to generalize it to the point of trying to make everything relevant to current events in order to make history useful. One aspect of history that I think you're perhaps discounting is the way it helps you to think about sources of information, and their varying levels of validity.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Um... nope, sorry, the focus of the school should be on fostering passion, interest, and understanding of the subject matter, not making sure that every kid has read some half-century old shit just because stodgy old bastards say it's important. I think in this day and age with falling literacy rates and a dying fiction literature industry, we should be focusing English classes on returning enjoyment of books to the culture. I also believe that the only way to learn to write well is to read good writing, so cultural relevance takes a far backseat to overall quality, and between Dickens' serialization and Shakespeare's Olde English neither could be said to be useful in teaching children how to write effectively.

    And I'm almost positive Ulysses is unreadable, actually. Huxley's fine, but Brave New World didn't really grab me by the balls the way that it seemed to for most people.
    I agree, school SHOULD foster an understanding of the subject matter. But what I'm saying is that there is no way you can understand and appreciate contemporary literature without understanding its various references and historical precedents. Of course Joyce's Ulysses is going to seem incomprehensible if you don't read Homer's Odyssey first.

  28. #238
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, the youth vote would actually have turned out against Bush if they'd ever been educated about the last few decades and all collectively realized, "Hey, wait a minute... every time the Republicans are in power recently some fucked up shit happens. I mean, it almost looks like their... fucking bastards. Maybe I won't listen to Mom and Dad telling me to vote for lower taxes." Not to turn this into a political thing, it's just a thought I had when I noticed how many kids STILL voted for Bush in 2004.
    yet you want to limit the teaching of mathematics. I say everyone should be required to take a statistics course and an economics course in high school. they'd be better able to sniff out the bullshit way politicians use statistics and economic info.

    to wit: here's something I just googled and found on Rush Limbaugh's website: the top 5% of earners in the US pay 56% of the taxes. sniff that bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  29. #239
    MENACING Courtney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    yet you want to limit the teaching of mathematics. I say everyone should be required to take a statistics course and an economics course in high school. they'd be better able to sniff out the bullshit way politicians use statistics and economic info.
    I've taken a hell of a lot of economics classes, and I STILL don't understand whether or not a balanced budget is a good thing. But I agree with you that everyone should at least take macro, micro and stat.

  30. #240
    I <3 Fall Out boy Yablonowitz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Board Member's Head Would You Most Like To Go Upside Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by caco0283 View Post
    i love how caitlin voted for greg...thats cute
    ME TOO!!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by ByTheWay, View Post
    If anyone raped or molested my wife or child i'd off them myself so I guess it doesn't matter. If you don't feel those type of emotions in that situation then that is you and in my opinion makes you a twisted person from a twisted state (UTAH) if that is where your from!

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