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Thread: True Detective

  1. #121
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Yes! I love the show's shifting structure as well. For what it's worth, Pizzolatto's first public tweet reads:

    Ep 1-3 = Act One. Ep 4-6 = Act Two. Ep 7 & 8 = Act Three. #TrueDetective


    BTW, Pizzolatto has endured quite a bit of criticism--from the usual sources--about the underdevelopment of True Detective's female characters. While I wouldn't be arrogant enough to dismiss that type of criticism in general, in this case, I think it's off base. Firstly, I think Pizzolatto and Michelle Monaghan have created a fascinating, complex character in Maggie Hart. And, secondly, surely the fact that the rest of the females are viewed through the perspective of the male characters is intentional and says something --I'm not quite sure what yet--about the limitations men consciously and unconsciously place on women. Pizzolatto seems to be too insightful not to have more compelling female characters up his sleeve--I'm sure we'll see one or two in the next season.

  2. #122
    Member chbludevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    I like this guys theory:

    Marty is not the killer, but he is connected to one of them. Here is my theory:

    First off, in episode 5, Dewall says to Cohle "I will see you Carcosa". This is related to a short story and is a fictional city in the story. Another writer would later use themes from this to create a series of short stories called "the king in yellow" where a church man is the ghost or antagonist. This makes me believe Reverend Tuttle is involved. These are religious murders of sinners and they are cleansing them of their sins. This would explain the devil catchers, to stop the devil from getting the sinners they just cleansed/purified.

    I believe Cohle realizes quickly that this is a part of a cult killing. He also realizes the connection to Tuttle and most likely, a lot of religious and important people in the community are involved. One of those people is Marty's father in law. He tells Marty how he believes the world is becoming worse (drugs, kids with #$%$ on their faces). Now skip to Audrey, we see her recreating the rape scene with the dolls/toys (notice there are 5 people around the woman being raped) when she is young with her sister, then she draws the pictures and the threesome. Finally, the autopsy on Dora Lange showed vaginal intercourse. The people behind the murders want to cleanse the community of sinners and bad people, so they drug them, rape them and kill them. Marty's daughters may have been staying at the grandparents house, woke up at night and witnessed her grandfather involved in one of the murders, which would explain why she is so messed up and how she expresses what she saw.

    Cohle is an anti-hero, the lone ranger and he quits the police force to pursue the real killer(s) as a vigilante. I believe he begins to suspect this after Guy Francis' suicide. Obviously Guy Francis was told to kills himself, or they would kills his sisters, nephews and nieces. When he sees the video of the cops saying something to Francis, he asks about audio, then asks for the log. I believe he realizes what is going on so he quit the force to investigate it, knowing the police and higher ups are involved or corrupted. Also when he is in 2012, in the interview, he makes 5 lone star men, like when Audrey did 5 males dolls raping a female one her back (not 100% sure about this one so if I'm wrong let me know). He's been active the whole time trying to catch the killers, the yellow king, only to come back after Billy Lee Tuttle's death, knowing it was somehow significant to their cult or to what was going to happen next.

  3. #123
    Member BobCaygeon's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Quote Originally Posted by RageAgainstTheAoki View Post
    BTW, Pizzolatto has endured quite a bit of criticism--from the usual sources--about the underdevelopment of True Detective's female characters. While I wouldn't be arrogant enough to dismiss that type of criticism in general, in this case, I think it's off base. Firstly, I think Pizzolatto and Michelle Monaghan have created a fascinating, complex character in Maggie Hart. And, secondly, surely the fact that the rest of the females are viewed through the perspective of the male characters is intentional and says something --I'm not quite sure what yet--about the limitations men consciously and unconsciously place on women. Pizzolatto seems to be too insightful not to have more compelling female characters up his sleeve--I'm sure we'll see one or two in the next season.
    Slate's television critic made essentially the same argument today.
    "This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption." - Malcolm Tucker

  4. #124
    old school TickleMeElmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Quote Originally Posted by bobert View Post
    Exactly. I thought last night's episode was great. A lot of the events felt inevitable, and I love the way that show's structure keeps shifting as the various story lines converge and the action begins to move to the present day. I'll be curious to see if they continue to use flashbacks now that the core interviews have been completed and our two leads have been reunited.
    Well I think Maggie is still interviewing so she may have some more flashbacks but I'm assuming we'll get some more when Cohle tells Hart what he's been up to the past several years.

    BTW, Pizzolatto tweeted out this link which seems more along the lines of what's really going on...

    True Detective is pretty popular around these parts and there’s good reason for it: The show is fantastic. And while I don’t condone calling a show “the greatest” or even ranking shows based on some standard that’s set by the media gods, the high quality of Nic Pizzolatto and Cary Fukunaga’s series is not in question.

    But what I do question is the rash of theories that have been flooding the Internet over the past two weeks. Talk of the Yellow King, Carcosa and the depth of the murder investigation represent the controlling dialogue on the series, but I think it all could be missing the biggest “theory” of all. Could True Detective possibly be hiding nothing in its meticulously crafted story?

    I point to Pizzolatto’s vision for the series as my main sticking point for why I think that True Detective is a lot more to the point than we are giving it credit. From The LA Times:

    “To achieve a personal vision that deeply investigates character, it makes sense to choose as a delivery vehicle a genre where an investigation is already underway…You can probably tell I don’t give a … about serial killers, and I certainly don’t care to engage in some sort of creative cultural competition for who can invent the most disgusting kind of serial killer,” he said. “This is just a vehicle. You could have engaged the same obsessions in a doughnut shop. But the show probably wouldn’t have sold.”

    It should be noted that I would watch Hart and Cohle philosophizing in a doughnut shop for an entire series. Give me a web series immediately!

    But what I really take from this quote is that while the mystery and theories are fun, the point of the series reaches towards another level. Knowing who The Yellow King is at the end of the series isn’t as important as knowing these characters and how they exist in the world that Pizzolatto has created.

    The book is open and the pages are flipping by while everyone is looking for text written in the margins. It isn’t wrong to do so, but it could be seen as misguided.

    From the beginning, it’s been about the relationship of Rust and Marty. Their motivations and philosophy. Being able to decode their being is what the story allows us to do, but it is also breeds the illusion that plot is all that matters. It can get you pretty far, sure, but I don’t know if the focus is fully warranted.

    And while the references to Carcosa and The King In Yellow are interesting, I don’t feel that any real answers lie within the pages of that story in connection with True Detective. I credit Pizzolatto’s academic background and noted attention to detail with a desire to connect the different works together. It provides a mythology to explore for literary exploits, but it reveals more about the characters than any concrete details in the story.

    The madness those who read The King In Yellow experience provides a nice parallel to the experiences of Rust Cohle and Marty Hart during their investigation into the murder of Dora Lange. It has pushed them in all different directions, be it past lives they thought they had left behind in Texas or out from behind a curtain of deceit in their personal lives and within their families.

    If the identity of The Yellow King means anything, it means that there is still more to find out about these characters and their relationship. It’s Pizzolatto in that interrogation scene with Rust Cohle, telling him that his investigation isn’t over yet. It’s a creator tempting his creation with something he knows he can’t resist, much like those who read the cursed words of the play.

    Of course I say this with the stern belief that Rust Cohle is not the murderer and not The Yellow King. Anyone who theorizes knows they can be wrong and will be wrong a good percentage of the time. If you believe Cohle is the “monster” at the end of this story, I’m not out to disprove you or sway you.

    But I think to say that the tag line, “the darkness becomes you” is about the descent of a man into being a murderer is misguided, especially in relation to Cohle.

    A man becoming obsessed and surrounded by his obsession is far more reasonable. And I think it shows that True Detective has had nothing to hide from the beginning. From The Daily Beast:

    "Let’s start with Matthew McConaughey. As Rust Cohle, McConaughey gives what I consider the best performance of his career.

    Matthew just got it—the dialogue especially, as baroque as it is. He was like, “No, no, this is the way this man talks.” And the 2012 Cohle talks differently than the 1995 Cohle. Matthew has this incredibly complicated chart of where Rust Cohle is emotionally and physically at every beat of those 17 years.

    A written chart?

    A map of his mental and emotional state. That’s why you notice that Cohle’s delivery in 2012 and 1995 is different. And that’s significant. If we’d had a lesser actor than Matthew playing Cohle, I would have had to rewrite the role. Not every actor can handle dialogue of this verbal complexity, and even fewer actors can understand the ideas and intentions hiding behind those verbal complexities.

    But if you have thoroughbreds, let ‘em run. You don’t try to make your dialogue more common. You gauge exactly how great their skill is and you try to use that skill. To me, it would have been misuse of actors like Matthew and Woody to do something safer—to not give these guys steak to chew all the time."

    In the end I feel this is a series more about the perfection of execution and character as opposed to the mystery behind the actual case. I feel we could be focusing on the appetizer as opposed to the main course, which is fine and makes for a lot of interesting thought. But at the same time, I think it takes bits away from the real genius at work.

    I certainly didn’t write this to undermine any ideas or fun being had. At the very base level, I’m just a fan of the show and I’m looking to have my point of view established on a grander stage.

    I love theories and fan speculation for the most part, having done quite a bit myself in the past with shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad. But I’ve always tried to keep it to the side in an effort to focus on the greatness in front of me.

    I also feel that covering all avenues is important, especially in regards to criticism. So I say treat this like any of the other theories you read out there. It is really no different. Feel free to agree or disagree because that’s where this found its origins and most importantly, continue to enjoy the show how you want to enjoy it.

    The bottom line, above all else, is that True Detective has established itself as one of the best shows on television at the moment. That’s no theory, it’s pure fact.
    Last edited by TickleMeElmo; 02-25-2014 at 01:41 AM.
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  5. #125
    old school shotglass75's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Check out Sleeping is Giving in for great mixes and other cool stuff

  6. #126
    old school shotglass75's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    I really added some depth to this conversation with that last post, huh?

    Enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and interpretations.
    Check out Sleeping is Giving in for great mixes and other cool stuff

  7. #127
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Ha. I liked your little meme, Shotglass.

  8. #128

    Default Re: True Detective

    Quote Originally Posted by shotglass75 View Post
    Beat me to it!
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  9. #129
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Sounds like we might be getting two female detectives on the yet to be confirmed season 2 of True Detective.

    Man, if they can go seriously a-list, this could be amazing. Well, it will be amazing regardless. Imagine.... Tilda Swinton, Cate Blanchett, Julianne Moore, Sissy Spacek, Sigourney Weaver, Diane Lane, Annette Benning, Naomi Watts, Charlize Theron, Michelle Pfeiffer, Nicole Kidman, Jennifer Connelly....

  10. #130
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Meryl Streep and Judi Dench in True Detective: Oscar
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    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
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    It's hard to argue with that.

  11. #131
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Oh God. Please no.

  12. #132
    Member chbludevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Angela Lansbury would be perfect for season 2!

  13. #133
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    I know you two are just having fun, but I'm kind of taken aback at the naked misogyny on display in the comment sections of sites like io9, AV Club and Variety, which were reporting on this possible development today. The fucking neanderthals are making these idiotic claims that the show would be ruined if they pivoted to a female team in s2. As though Pizzolatto isn't talented enough to write compelling female characters and as if there are no actresses with the chops and gravitas to anchor a dark, ambitious police procedural. Apparently Helen Mirren, Jill Gascoine, Gillian Anderson, Mireille Enos, S. Epatha Merkerson, Mariska Hargitay and Holly Hunter have just been faffing around and giggling about boys in their girly tv shows. Ugh.

  14. #134
    Member FEELS's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Rooney Mara

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  15. #135
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    I could see that. Especially if paired with an older actress.

  16. #136
    Member MusicIsMyBoyfriend's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Rooney Mara & Catherine Zeta Jones.




    Oh wait....
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  17. #137
    old school TickleMeElmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Julianne Moore & Natalie Portman
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    It's a bit unfair though, when I change an MP3 halfway through a song at a party I get yelled at, whereas Skrillex probably got a blow job.

  18. #138

    Default Re: True Detective

    SPOILERS AHEAD

    Welp, it's all coming together quite nicely. I said to my girlfriend that it was the lawnmower guy until Marty called Rust away from him because they were so on to Ladoux. So I forgot about him until they ended episode five with Rust back in that school where he first met Childress. Makes sense that it's him since he has a contract with all of the parishes but I still think there are a couple of curveballs coming our way. I'm gonna have to go back and watch the whole thing again this week, and then I'll probably do it again after it's over.

  19. #139
    Coachella Junkie Neighborhood Creep's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Christian Bale and a female
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  20. #140
    Coachella Junkie stinkbutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    That wasn't the same mower dude was it?
    Quote Originally Posted by roboto View Post
    And stinkbutt leaving a motorhead set when you know he's dying just to talk shit ? Your a shitty person as well .please let mja give you an anal love disease .

  21. #141
    old school xanman86's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    I could have sworn the girl in the video was going to be Marty's daughter. Would have been even more fucked up...

    She definitely was molested by someone with a mask, either with a beard or with the scars:

    http://i.imgur.com/Q5Fklh7.jpg

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  22. #142
    Coachella Junkie Neighborhood Creep's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    ^NSFW

    That would have been interesting, Xan. I already forgot about that part.
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  23. #143
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Quote Originally Posted by xanman86 View Post
    I could have sworn the girl in the video was going to be Marty's daughter. Would have been even more fucked up...
    You seriously have the worst fucking excuse for plot intuition I have ever seen exhibited in a (semi) human being.
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  25. #145
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    I understand why this episode had to happen. They needed to move the story forward, they needed to reunite our protagonists, and Rust needed to catch Marty up on his multi-year investigation. But, it somehow didn't feel as special as the prior episodes. I mean, that was a hell of a lot of exposition for one hour. In the prior six eps, I was completely immersed in the experience. While this ep was still better than anything else on tv right now, I found it much easier to step outside of the narrative and question some of the choices being made. For example, I know that without those damning photographs and videos, Rust would have had a much harder time convincing Marty to join him, but the whole grand larceny/crime caper bit about Rust invading Tuttle's home felt a bit far fetched for the world of True Detective--felt more like a Breaking Bad plot point. I know that seems like such a minor quibble, but in a show that's gotten it so right prior to this it felt uncharacteristic.

    While I know that this has been telegraphed from the earliest episodes, I kind of hate that we're headed to the unveiling of some grand conspiracy involving a weird extended family cult. Conspiracy theories almost always ring false to me because I find it hard to believe that no one breaks rank and tries to come clean. And, yeah, I get that this show is arguing that the state PD and other local law enforcement groups are in on the conspiracy--sometimes without realizing it--but it still beggars belief.

    I'm still really interested in seeing how Dora Lange is connected. She certainly wasn't a virgin, so that either means the group wasn't just interested in "innocent" victims or perhaps that she learned of the crazy cult, tried to get word out and was ritualistically tortured and killed to send a message to anyone else contemplating doing the same. I'm probably whining for no good reason. Perhaps Pizzolatto will find a way to tie this all together in the remaining hour that doesn't ring false. Quibbles aside, I still can't wait.
    Last edited by RageAgainstTheAoki; 03-05-2014 at 01:57 PM.

  26. #146
    Coachella Junkie stinkbutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    The break in didn't bother me because it was used as a tool to show how far off the deep end he had gone. The real problem I have with it, and every other one of his crazy suspicions is that he is always right. The crazy dude is always right. Someone pointed that out, and for whatever reason it has just bothered me since I noticed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by roboto View Post
    And stinkbutt leaving a motorhead set when you know he's dying just to talk shit ? Your a shitty person as well .please let mja give you an anal love disease .

  27. #147
    Loveable Curmudgeon TallGuyCM's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    It did show far off the deep end he'd gone, but I agree with Rage it felt like a completely different show. The tone/mood that those first episodes established was gone, and I half expected the Mission Impossible theme song to play but with a banjo or something. That was only a small part though, it didn't bother me all that much.
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  28. #148

    Default Re: True Detective

    Man, so many nuggets throughout this show. Can't wait to rewatch everything after the finale.

    https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/sta...681154/photo/1

  29. #149
    old school RageAgainstTheAoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    Ha. That's some good cropping there^. As I recall, Marty yelled at Rust to come back to the car because they had to get to another location and Rust barely had any time to talk to lawnmower man.

  30. #150
    Coachella Junkie stinkbutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Detective

    If it is the same lawnmower guy, how the fuck did Rust not notice the scars?
    Quote Originally Posted by roboto View Post
    And stinkbutt leaving a motorhead set when you know he's dying just to talk shit ? Your a shitty person as well .please let mja give you an anal love disease .

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