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Thread: Soberchella 2013

  1. #121

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    The AA Grapevine was losing money, so they did this...

    "The AA Grapevine ‘Keep-It-Simple’ Challenge

    The AA Grapevine, Inc. is totally self-supporting and does not receive AA group contributions or income from advertising or membership fees.

    Grapevine publications are financed entirely by the sales of the Grapevine magazine, AudioGrapevine, Digital Archive and other related books and CDs.

    The magazines and all other items are never priced to earn a profit, but to cover basic operating expenses and to cover escalating fixed costs (such as postal increases of 40% over a 10-year period).

    A Little Can Mean A Lot

    100 new Grapevine magazine and/or AudioGrapevine subscriptions per area can assure that the AA Grapevine, Inc. is fully self-supporting in 2007.

    What You Can Do to Help

    If the Grapevine makes a difference in your sobriety, then please pass the word on by encouraging your area to increase its circulation this year by at least 100 subscriptions (that’s 7/10ths of one percent of our estimated 1.3 million members).

    Please get the word out about this challenge by:

    • Announcing it at your home group, area assemblies, wherever you find AAs members and/or by

    • Posting this page in your newsletter, on your website, or at your local InterGroup or Central office.

    It’s that simple.

    We will keep you posted of the results of the ‘Keep-It-Simple’ challenge at www.aagrapevine.org beginning October 2007.

    Thank you.
    "Hey guys, you know any other people suffering under the weight of addiction? Tell them to BUY OUR MAGAZINE!"

  2. #122
    Member santasutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Ok, So let's say that I become such a drunk that I lose my job, my house, my car and my family.

    And then let's say i go to an AA meeting when I've hit "rock bottom" and it helps me get to a point in my life where I get everything back and then some.

    And let's say that I want to support this concept/institution in my annual charitable giving (now that I'm doing well again) and pledge... let's say a grand a year.

    And let's say that there are others out there like me, some with more to give, some with less.

    I'm trying to find the "evil" here but you'll have to do better, MB.
    Quote Originally Posted by MotorAve View Post
    Careful, while the threats are amusingly clueless, I could probably have this whole board shut down with one phone call.

  3. #123
    Cult Leader koryp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Media Blitz View Post
    The AA Grapevine was losing money, so they did this...


    "Hey guys, you know any other people suffering under the weight of addiction? Tell them to BUY OUR MAGAZINE!"


    Seems pretty smart to me. What can you tell us about NA. I mean really since I spend more time there, I was wondering if you could help shine some light on the dark secrets lurking there that we've all been overlooking while you've been searching for what's really going on. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

    In case anyone may have clicked onto page 5 of this fine thread it's actually about having 12 step meetings at Coachella. We do it every year cause we like it. First post in the thread lays it all out.

    Or

    tl;dr

    http://SOBERCHELLA.com
    Last edited by koryp; 04-02-2013 at 07:35 PM.
    Wow, 12 step meetings at Coachella, who knew? SOBERCHELLA.COM

    I'm a reasonable man, get off my case....

  4. #124

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by santasutt View Post
    Ok, So let's say that I become such a drunk that I lose my job, my house, my car and my family.

    And then let's say i go to an AA meeting when I've hit "rock bottom" and it helps me get to a point in my life where I get everything back and then some.

    And let's say that I want to support this concept/institution in my annual charitable giving (now that I'm doing well again) and pledge... let's say a grand a year.

    And let's say that there are others out there like me, some with more to give, some with less.

    I'm trying to find the "evil" here but you'll have to do better, MB.
    GSBAA - http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.co...0&Syndicate=No

    AAWSI - http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.co...0&Syndicate=No

    Look at the revenue numbers. Look at how much money these people are making, from the people on the board to Bill W's family. They've corporatized people's sobriety and found a way to throw Christianity into the process.

    I'm not trying to indict KoryP here, he doesn't even know what's going on or what cause he's serving. He doesn't understand that he is essentially serving a cult, who's top members are driving luxury cars and living in gigantic mansions because of the volunteer work he does.

    AA's goal is retention - someone could be clean for 7-10 years, AA still hammers in the notion that they are an addict and need AA's continued support, and that they need to go seek out other addicts and bring them into the fold. And when you've been in the fold awhile, they come to you and ask for money, then they ask for you to ask your addict friends for money. The goal is to keep you in the cycle - once you're clean, you're supposed to sponsor others, put on your own meetings, hand out their books, spread their values, etc. You're never "done."

    It's a pyramid scheme and the only people profiting are at the top.

    And if you want to know the truth, I know because it happened to my dad and pretty much ruined my childhood.

  5. #125
    old school LickTheLizzard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Media Blitz View Post
    who's top members are driving luxury cars and living in gigantic mansions because of the volunteer work he does.
    lulz
    This ain't no middle of the mall shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by theklein25 View Post
    For Linkin Park this is kind of embarrassing, but this song would be great live if you just wanna have fun and grind on a girl.
    Diarrhea Planet 2015

  6. #126
    Coachella Junkie algunz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    MB, I'm not discounting your accusations. What happened to your dad? A legitimate testimony might be more powerful.

  7. #127
    Member santasutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Media Blitz View Post
    GSBAA - http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.co...0&Syndicate=No

    AAWSI - http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.co...0&Syndicate=No


    AA's goal is retention - someone could be clean for 7-10 years, AA still hammers in the notion that they are an addict and need AA's continued support, and that they need to go seek out other addicts and bring them into the fold. And when you've been in the fold awhile, they come to you and ask for money, then they ask for you to ask your addict friends for money. The goal is to keep you in the cycle - once you're clean, you're supposed to sponsor others, put on your own meetings, hand out their books, spread their values, etc. You're never "done."

    Every charity to whom I've ever given a nickel asks me for more the next year.

    I've yet to get that letter that opens: "You were awesome last year. Why don't you take the year off and we'll re-connect in a few..."
    Quote Originally Posted by MotorAve View Post
    Careful, while the threats are amusingly clueless, I could probably have this whole board shut down with one phone call.

  8. #128
    Cult Leader koryp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Media Blitz View Post
    Look at the revenue numbers. Look at how much money these people are making...
    Kind of amazing we pay actual professionals to run our corporation. You know compensate them for work performed.


    I know because it happened to my dad and pretty much ruined my childhood.
    Now we're getting some where here.

    Tell us...


    Where did dear old dad touch you?
    Last edited by koryp; 04-02-2013 at 07:35 PM.
    Wow, 12 step meetings at Coachella, who knew? SOBERCHELLA.COM

    I'm a reasonable man, get off my case....

  9. #129

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by koryp View Post
    Kind of amazing we pay actual professionals to run our corporation. You know compensate them for work performed.
    Compensate them 6 figures, give the family millions in book royalties, then make the addicts self-manage and profit from their self-management... sounds totally acceptable.

  10. #130
    old school ocbruin84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    Kory P: CULT LEADER
    #KORYP2012
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    Hey here's an idea. You know those people who are desperately poor, down on their luck, uneducated, abused, and generally ill-equipped for life? Let's make fun of them.

  11. #131
    Cult Leader koryp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    I know it's a far cry from your socioeconomic status and all, so I can see how it'd take a bit of imagination for you, but yeah. I won't even take on a mid-level management position for anything less than 6 figures. Not worth the headache. Top tier management for a worldwide organization serving millions of members and managing assets in every country of earth requires competent, trained, and experienced personnel. I'd be pissed if they hired anything less. Seems to be working out pretty good too.

    So what's your real beef? None of this affects you personally.
    Wow, 12 step meetings at Coachella, who knew? SOBERCHELLA.COM

    I'm a reasonable man, get off my case....

  12. #132

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by algunz View Post
    MB, I'm not discounting your accusations. What happened to your dad? A legitimate testimony might be more powerful.
    My dad was (or "is" depending which logic you apply to addiction) an alcoholic. He was never abusive or any of the stuff that typically comes after "my dad was an alcoholic," but he was addicted to drinking.

    I'll be as short as possible as this is rather personal - He started off going to 1 meeting a week, then that became 2, then came Christianity, suddenly my dad was doing 4 meetings a week and church on Sundays (my father was not into religion at all prior to AA). He started sponsoring someone and spent a lot of the time he wasn't at meetings talking to the person he sponsored. All his time was spent doing something related to AA, reading the Big Book and the Bible over and over, having lunches and dinners with the people he sponsored, etc.. His sponsor demanded he "keep it in the family" when it came to his business affairs and let's just say that failed him miserably. His personality completely shifted and he lost all his inspiration to write (which was his job). Meanwhile, he had a wife and son who rarely got to see him. He started to resent me because I didn't buy into the church and stopped going with him on Sundays. It gets deeper but I'm not terribly comfortable going into it with strangers.

    One day, he woke up, realized he'd been taken advantage of, and quit AA and the church. It's been almost a decade since that day and he still hasn't had a sip of alcohol. I essentially spent the end of elementary, middle and high school without a father because of this shit.

    AA is designed to keep addicts feeding the beast - part of your recovery is helping others recover (a tactic people who work at actual treatment facilities advise against - you're not supposed to use another's recovery as therapy for yourself). Addicts run the meetings, sponsor each other, etc. No one doing any of the actual groundwork is being paid.

    I respect people for getting clean, but I wanted to see if people would think about doing their own Soberchella group where they simply support each other and help each other handle the weekend while staying clean, without the AA/12 Step nonsense. I don't like seeing people getting taken advantage of.

  13. #133
    Cult Leader koryp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    And how exactly do you think AA or NA benefits financially from Soberchella?
    Wow, 12 step meetings at Coachella, who knew? SOBERCHELLA.COM

    I'm a reasonable man, get off my case....

  14. #134
    AMBIVALENT bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Media Blitz View Post
    My dad was (or "is" depending which logic you apply to addiction) an alcoholic. He was never abusive or any of the stuff that typically comes after "my dad was an alcoholic," but he was addicted to drinking.

    I'll be as short as possible as this is rather personal - He started off going to 1 meeting a week, then that became 2, then came Christianity, suddenly my dad was doing 4 meetings a week and church on Sundays (my father was not into religion at all prior to AA). He started sponsoring someone and spent a lot of the time he wasn't at meetings talking to the person he sponsored. All his time was spent doing something related to AA, reading the Big Book and the Bible over and over, having lunches and dinners with the people he sponsored, etc.. His sponsor demanded he "keep it in the family" when it came to his business affairs and let's just say that failed him miserably. His personality completely shifted and he lost all his inspiration to write (which was his job). Meanwhile, he had a wife and son who rarely got to see him. He started to resent me because I didn't buy into the church and stopped going with him on Sundays. It gets deeper but I'm not terribly comfortable going into it with strangers.

    One day, he woke up, realized he'd been taken advantage of, and quit AA and the church. It's been almost a decade since that day and he still hasn't had a sip of alcohol. I essentially spent the end of elementary, middle and high school without a father because of this shit.

    AA is designed to keep addicts feeding the beast - part of your recovery is helping others recover (a tactic people who work at actual treatment facilities advise against - you're not supposed to use another's recovery as therapy for yourself). Addicts run the meetings, sponsor each other, etc. No one doing any of the actual groundwork is being paid.

    I respect people for getting clean, but I wanted to see if people would think about doing their own Soberchella group where they simply support each other and help each other handle the weekend while staying clean, without the AA/12 Step nonsense. I don't like seeing people getting taken advantage of.


    Let's all thank Media for sharing with the group. Who would like to go next?

  15. #135

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Media Blitz View Post
    My dad was (or "is" depending which logic you apply to addiction) an alcoholic. He was never abusive or any of the stuff that typically comes after "my dad was an alcoholic," but he was addicted to drinking.

    I'll be as short as possible as this is rather personal - He started off going to 1 meeting a week, then that became 2, then came Christianity, suddenly my dad was doing 4 meetings a week and church on Sundays (my father was not into religion at all prior to AA). He started sponsoring someone and spent a lot of the time he wasn't at meetings talking to the person he sponsored. All his time was spent doing something related to AA, reading the Big Book and the Bible over and over, having lunches and dinners with the people he sponsored, etc.. His sponsor demanded he "keep it in the family" when it came to his business affairs and let's just say that failed him miserably. His personality completely shifted and he lost all his inspiration to write (which was his job). Meanwhile, he had a wife and son who rarely got to see him. He started to resent me because I didn't buy into the church and stopped going with him on Sundays. It gets deeper but I'm not terribly comfortable going into it with strangers.

    One day, he woke up, realized he'd been taken advantage of, and quit AA and the church. It's been almost a decade since that day and he still hasn't had a sip of alcohol. I essentially spent the end of elementary, middle and high school without a father because of this shit.

    AA is designed to keep addicts feeding the beast - part of your recovery is helping others recover (a tactic people who work at actual treatment facilities advise against - you're not supposed to use another's recovery as therapy for yourself). Addicts run the meetings, sponsor each other, etc. No one doing any of the actual groundwork is being paid.

    I respect people for getting clean, but I wanted to see if people would think about doing their own Soberchella group where they simply support each other and help each other handle the weekend while staying clean, without the AA/12 Step nonsense. I don't like seeing people getting taken advantage of.
    Wow, so you can't hold your dad accountable for neglecting his family? You want to blame the entire AA community? I know it's hard for you to accept, but AA didn't take daddy away. He just didn't want to be there.
    Oh look it stopped snowing...

  16. #136
    Member involvelemons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    My family are so happy I'm back in their lives. I have a romantic partner of two years who can't believe how well I treat her. I have self esteem and self respect today. My grandfather used to clean up after my binges and pick me up off the bathroom floor when I was in blackouts, but after 7.5 years of sobriety I just spent the majority of February sitting by his bedside in hospice and eventually holding his hand as he died. My family is so grateful that I have to ability to show up for someone like that. I sponsor four men who tell me on a regular basis how much I've helped them and how grateful they are for me. I'm equally grateful for them. I don't help them because it's "therapy", I help them because I have experience dealing with what they are going through, and listening to someone and being there for them is the right human thing to do. I don't try to be their therapist: I'm not trained to be a therapist. I share my experience with them and tell them what worked for me. None of it has to do with Christianity or any other religion, for that matter. Not only did I go from dropping out of every class to actually graduating college, but I was subsequently accepted to a PhD program with a five year full ride scholarship, plus living stipend, at a tier-1 research university. I have self esteem today, and I sleep really well at night. I stopped hurting people so often and started helping people more often. I show up for the non-alcoholics in my life more than I ever could have dreamed when I was drinking.

    What did I pay for all of this?
    A couple bucks in the collection basket once or twice a week to cover the coffee I drink and the food I eat at meetings.

    Why do we defend AA so vigorously? Because it changed our fucking lives. And we try to pay it forward. For free and for fun.

    Next.
    1 Coachella before I got sober, 7 since. I support both versions. If you wanna do the sober version, roll with us:
    Click Soberchella 2013 for meeting details
    -------------------------------

  17. #137
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    This is retarded. Calling it a cult devalues the seriousness of real cults. Just because your dad became a bible banger and had a questionable sponser doesn't make AA a cult.



    Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised
    Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.

    Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

    Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

    ‪ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

    ‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    ‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    ‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    ‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    ‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    ‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    ‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    ‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    ‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    ‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    ‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

    ‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    ‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    ‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
    Last edited by captncrzy; 04-03-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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  18. #138
    Coachella Junkie algunz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    MB, although your story is sad and real, it says nothing about or against AA. Your dad had his issues. They were not with an organization that clearly helped him get sober. Blaming AA is like blaming your neighbor who helps bring in the mail when you're on vacation for your miscarriage. It doesn't make any sense.

  19. #139
    Member fredbull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    I would just like to take a second to thank media blitz for keeping this thread visible and helping us spread the word!

    www.soberchella.com!!!!!!!
    09-10-11-12-13-14

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  20. #140

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by fredbull View Post
    I would just like to take a second to thank media blitz for keeping this thread visible and helping us spread the word!

    www.soberchella.com!!!!!!!
    Absolutely!
    I'm also glad we are getting the opportunity to educate those that are just as ignorant about 12 step practices as he is! Keep it up media
    Oh look it stopped snowing...

  21. #141

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaks View Post
    Wow, so you can't hold your dad accountable for neglecting his family? You want to blame the entire AA community? I know it's hard for you to accept, but AA didn't take daddy away. He just didn't want to be there.
    No, I want to blame the corporation, because that's what AA is, a corporation.

  22. #142
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    AA is a corporation in the same way that your father is a writer.

    12/31: Derek Plaslaiko, Dave Aju @ f8
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  23. #143

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by algunz View Post
    MB, although your story is sad and real, it says nothing about or against AA. Your dad had his issues. They were not with an organization that clearly helped him get sober. Blaming AA is like blaming your neighbor who helps bring in the mail when you're on vacation for your miscarriage. It doesn't make any sense.
    They indoctrinated him. When one comes from a position of weakness (addiction), they will listen to whatever they are fed if they think it'll help them.

    Moreover, AA didn't "help" my dad, my dad helped my dad. Most of the people I know who've gone to AA have relapsed several times over. When my dad realized that AA did nothing for him and it was his own strength that did it, he kicked them and the Christian church to the curb.

    Finally, I mentioned this before but it's worth mentioning again - actual treatment centers tell their councelors that the absolute WORST thing they can do is use their treatment of others as a form of personal therapy, that if your focus is on yourself even in the slightest, you won't give your patient the best possible care. It's no wonder, then, that so many people who attend AA/NA meetings end up relapsing - they aren't getting cared for by professionals, they're being cared for by fellow addicts. Addicts shouldn't be treating addicts, to me this ignores the fact that addiction is a disease and not a choice.

    And the people at the top are making massive profits off of it, without doing any of the work or treatment themselves.

  24. #144
    Coachella Junkie algunz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Why do most treatment centers refer their patients to AA/NA for after care?

  25. #145
    Member involvelemons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Yeah, and I need to see some citations about treatment programs that discourage sponsorship. Like, seriously. Because I'm actually writing a doctoral dissertation on the topic of medicalization and addiction, and I don't see anything like that in any of the literature. You might want to start with any of the peer reviewed journals listed on this page: http://www.palgrave.com/nursinghealt.../journals.html. You might want to check non-addiction medical journals like Science and Nature as well.

    Also, don't get me started on all the literature within AA itself that expressly warns about the types of decisions your dad made. It sounds like he's had a hard time as it is.

    Look Media Blitz bro, it sucks that your family's shit went pear shaped. I mean that. AA clearly doesn't work for everyone. And that's ok. But is it necessary to make massive statements about things you're drawing inferences on based on a sample size of 1? You should probably quit while you're ahead.
    1 Coachella before I got sober, 7 since. I support both versions. If you wanna do the sober version, roll with us:
    Click Soberchella 2013 for meeting details
    -------------------------------

  26. #146
    Cult Leader koryp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Ahead of what exactly? If I was that guy I'd probably shoot myself in front of my dad. At least my dad had the balls to try and kick some sense into me. It didn't take, but at least he tried. MB's pops couldn't even be bothered to show up and emulate a man in front of his mistake.
    Wow, 12 step meetings at Coachella, who knew? SOBERCHELLA.COM

    I'm a reasonable man, get off my case....

  27. #147
    Pedley Rocks JustSteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Snapchella.

  28. #148
    Member involvelemons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Well, I don't wish harm on anyone. Humility, maybe, but not harm.

    But my points above still hold
    1 Coachella before I got sober, 7 since. I support both versions. If you wanna do the sober version, roll with us:
    Click Soberchella 2013 for meeting details
    -------------------------------

  29. #149
    Member involvelemons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    478

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Oh: and I'm glad your dad is sober, dude. We'll say it ourselves: AA has no monopoly on recovery. Whatever works for him works for him. I'm just glad he's doing better.

    If I had your experience I would probably have some nasty shit to say as well.
    1 Coachella before I got sober, 7 since. I support both versions. If you wanna do the sober version, roll with us:
    Click Soberchella 2013 for meeting details
    -------------------------------

  30. #150

    Default Re: Soberchella 2013

    Kory I want a refund you dick.

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