2013: The Year Without Headliners

[Giannid6]

Modest Mouse is clearly the headliner for Friday. I don't think I've ever been so excited to ditch the "headliner" for the real deal. Britchella just isn't working for me. I'll listen to a couple more Blur records in their entirety, but I will still very likely not be there to see the live. I'm not much of a Radiohead fan, but even I had to stand there and watch them. Stone Roses/ Blur? Fuck that. I'm glad you guys who like them are happy and getting excited for their sets, but I would suck Coachella's tits off for a real headliner on Friday of Weekend 2. Now, does anyone else wonder how YYYs got such high standing for this? They basically blew last time they were at Coachella, and haven't released anything of note since. Is this how it works? As long as you technically exist four years later, you will be bumped up? Beyonce and JT should have headlined Friday/ Saturday. Someone had to take it there. WHY, GV? WHYYYYYYYY?!?!?! Ah, fuck it. I'll check out whoever is still playing when MM finish their set.

tbh

[Bumblebee]

Moving units doesn't equate to a sell out. Let me say it like this.... Frontgate sold out their Coachella ticket stock. That much may be true, but if all of the tickets do not go into the hands of attendees, then it was technically NOT a sell out. If it's to be considered a sell out when it's far below capacity, then it's hype. Is this starting to make sense to you? If you're hyping your show too much, you'll lose money when people decide not to buy into the hype based on the actual lineup. In this case, it can result in a loss of money when stubhub and ticket master both buy smaller amounts of tickets next year based on poor sales this year, letting the ACTUAL DEMAND control the sales. The festival will be completely tarnished when it's revealed that the ACTUAL DEMAND does not sell out within hours, or days, but in weeks, or not at all. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out where the festival goes from there.

Basically all 160,000 passes have been sold minus some pricey hotel packages.

All the scalper tickets will re-sell for something close to face value or a modest mark up. Resale prices will be watched closely, though keep in mind that finding a place to sleep will be a challenge for latecomers.

The "hype" that's been busted is Paul Tollett's claim that the festival has enough demand to sell out 4 weekends.

[Bumblebee]

I fucking love the Stone Roses but a lot of people on this forum were talking about how so-so they are live. I haven't had the chance to see them live, but I guess we'll find out in April.

Maybe some vintage Roses gigs and Ian solo gigs. Reviews of the Roses reunion have all be very strong.

[JustSteve]

If Goldenvoice sells out of their allotment of passes it is sold out for them. The secondary market has no bearing on the term. All passes are out oftheir hands and into the hands of the general public. Sure they may not all end up being used, but their initial sale still stands

[PulpOne]

If Goldenvoice sells out of their allotment of passes it is sold out for them. The secondary market has no bearing on the term. All passes are out oftheir hands and into the hands of the general public. Sure they may not all end up being used, but their initial sale still stands

Exactly.

To say its not sold out because the venue isn't at maximum capacity is ridiculous. In other words you're implying that aslong as there is a secondary market, it can't be 'truly' sold out.

[Zafocaine]

Exactly.

To say its not sold out because the venue isn't at maximum capacity is ridiculous. In other words you're implying that aslong as there is a secondary market, it can't be 'truly' sold out.

If the festival sells out tickets that don't get used, it hurts the food/ merchandise sales, which leaves a mark. The secondary market not selling out their stock would lead them to readjusting their deal with Frontgate/ GV. Regardless... if passes are being sold, it's not sold out. It's not a sell out unless each ticket is sold to an attendee. As there are thousands of tickets for sale on the internet right now, the show is not sold out. Goldenvoice merely sold their stock of tickets.

[Highly Refined Pirate]

you are an imbecile, with your logic essentially no concerts or sporting events could ever be "sold out"

[Zafocaine]

you are an imbecile, with your logic essentially no concerts or sporting events could ever be "sold out"

Mostly correct. Selling out would be very rare for large venues like this. When you're dealing with rare acts in small clubs, it's fairly easy to sell out. When it comes to Coachella, selling out may not be entirely possible. What do you want to call the remainder of tickets that don't get resold or used? Does that just get ignored? It may technically be a sell out, but it's not an actual sell out, making it something of a forgery to claim it a sell out. Tickets unavailable through frontgate, yes. Tickets sold out? No. They will be on sale every day between now and April 22nd, post Coachella. Nothing about that is indicative of a sell out.

[Phantasma Del Mar]

Every ticket was bought, it doesn't matter if they're resold or not. Say a couple thousand passes don't get used. Goldenvoice still sold all of their inventory. I don't understand why you're so intent on disputing this definition.

[concertgoer]

I can never tell if Zafocaine is just the biggest troll or if he is just actually that fucking stupid

[bemerritt]

If the festival sells out tickets that don't get used, it hurts the food/ merchandise sales, which leaves a mark. The secondary market not selling out their stock would lead them to readjusting their deal with Frontgate/ GV. Regardless... if passes are being sold, it's not sold out. It's not a sell out unless each ticket is sold to an attendee. As there are thousands of tickets for sale on the internet right now, the show is not sold out. Goldenvoice merely sold their stock of tickets.

So spicy pie will pay them less money to set up shop because <1% of tickets aren't used. sounds about right.

[nathanfairchild]

I can never tell if Zafocaine is just the biggest troll or if he is just actually that fucking stupid

it's the latter.

[travelfan]

The "hype" that's been busted is Paul Tollett's claim that the festival has enough demand to sell out 4 weekends.

Why? Because it took just under 24 hours instead of 3 to sell out? We thought a six day sellout for one weekend in 2011 was crazy successful. Just because it didn't sell out as fast as last year does not mean the demand wasn't there.

For example, I know people that were "on the fence" that probably would have bought a ticket had the sale gone for even a week longer, but didn't pull the trigger quickly enough. What this shows is that the people who were gung ho enough to have already budgeted, planned, and mentally committed to going for Coachella were able to get tickets, whereas in the past (up to 2010 even) the majority of attendees might have mentally made the decision three weeks after the lineup came out. People who would like to wait for the lineup, budget it for a couple weeks and plan didn't stop existing, they just won't be able to get tickets now.

[PointBlank]

I don't usually flame people, but Zafocaine, your argument is the dumbest fucking thing I've read on this message board in a long time, and that's saying something.

[PulpOne]

I can never tell if Zafocaine is just the biggest troll or if he is just actually that fucking stupid

I was also suspecting the same then settled on the fact that he must be.

[99styles]

wtf is BLur or Phoniex doing headling oh yah and the Stone Roses.....ahh If anything New Order should be headling i can't believe they are that old that hipsters dont know who they are anymore

[Zafocaine]

So spicy pie will pay them less money to set up shop because <1% of tickets aren't used. sounds about right.

You really think it'll end up being so few tickets? Where is the major demand for the festival this year? Outside of festival junkies, and people who are just devoted to going to Coachella, who is seeing this lineup as visionary? Who, outside of this group of people, will buy tickets for a 150%+ markup now that the lineup is out? Are you kidding yourself? Have you seen all the people trying to get rid of their tickets on the board, or trying to trade their weekend one tickets for more than they're worth like weekend 1 is worth more than weekend 2? I would say that Spicy Pie will always exist as long as the Coachella festival exists, regardless of what deal they have to make. Supply and Demand. Simple economics. There is an overabundance of unsold tickets. Calling it a sell out will instantly raise demand, sending people to places like stubhub to pay the markup. If the lineup just isn't that great, then even calling it a sell out when there are still tens of thousands available tickets remaining to be sold won't matter, and the festival will tank. Are you all so easily duped? Blur/ Stone Roses may be Coachella's swan song. Give it room to breath, guys. There aren't enough devoted message board users attending annually to keep weak headliners from effecting Coachella in the long run.

[Zafocaine]

Every ticket was bought, it doesn't matter if they're resold or not. Say a couple thousand passes don't get used. Goldenvoice still sold all of their inventory. I don't understand why you're so intent on disputing this definition.

You'll be sitting there in 2015 wondering how a "Sold out" festival doesn't exist anymore (unless they happen to book true headliners in the next two years).

[gswhooper]

You really think it'll end up being so few tickets? Where is the major demand for the festival this year? Outside of festival junkies, and people who are just devoted to going to Coachella, who is seeing this lineup as visionary? Who, outside of this group of people, will buy tickets for a 150%+ markup now that the lineup is out? Are you kidding yourself? Have you seen all the people trying to get rid of their tickets on the board, or trying to trade their weekend one tickets for more than they're worth like weekend 1 is worth more than weekend 2? I would say that Spicy Pie will always exist as long as the Coachella festival exists, regardless of what deal they have to make. Supply and Demand. Simple economics. There is an overabundance of unsold tickets. Calling it a sell out will instantly raise demand, sending people to places like stubhub to pay the markup. If the lineup just isn't that great, then even calling it a sell out when there are still tens of thousands available tickets remaining to be sold won't matter, and the festival will tank. Are you all so easily duped? Blur/ Stone Roses may be Coachella's swan song. Give it room to breath, guys. There aren't enough devoted message board users attending annually to keep weak headliners from effecting Coachella in the long run.

Why do you type fucking paragraph responses for everything? Also, What is your WPM rate?

You'll be sitting there in 2015 wondering how a "Sold out" festival doesn't exist anymore (unless they happen to book true headliners in the next two years).

LOL.No. Coachella will continue selling out for years if they put one decent headliner on the poster, with a consistently strong undercard.

[Zafocaine]

Why do you type fucking paragraph responses for everything? Also, What is your WPM rate?



LOL.No. Coachella will continue selling out for years if they put one decent headliner on the poster, with a consistently strong undercard.

Not sure about WPM. Never timed myself properly, I suppose. No arguing there's a worthy undercard, but there are no headliners. RHCP is arguably headliner stature, as they've headlined before, and are still doing pretty major tours, but very anti-climactic considering our expectations for the show. I'm almost disappointed not to see fun. at this point. Maybe the festival will go on for many years to come... but don't say there weren't early obvious warning signs if it ends up disappearing, or becoming something else entirely.

[Bumblebee]

Why? Because it took just under 24 hours instead of 3 to sell out? We thought a six day sellout for one weekend in 2011 was crazy successful. Just because it didn't sell out as fast as last year does not mean the demand wasn't there.

For example, I know people that were "on the fence" that probably would have bought a ticket had the sale gone for even a week longer, but didn't pull the trigger quickly enough. What this shows is that the people who were gung ho enough to have already budgeted, planned, and mentally committed to going for Coachella were able to get tickets, whereas in the past (up to 2010 even) the majority of attendees might have mentally made the decision three weeks after the lineup came out. People who would like to wait for the lineup, budget it for a couple weeks and plan didn't stop existing, they just won't be able to get tickets now.

2013 took longer to sell out than previous years - and has stronger competition from other US festivals since 2010. We'll have to wait 6 months to see if it's simply a off year for headliners. Your friends can find a 2013 pass for face value with some patience.

A hypothetical 2013 third Coachella weekend would have been a sales disaster.

I'm also curious how many wristbands some here think are never scanned. I think very low hundreds at most. There are "bottom feeder" scalpers willing to pick those up.

[travelfan]

2013 took longer to sell out than previous years - and has stronger competition from other US festivals since 2010. We'll have to wait 6 months to see if it's simply a off year for headliners. Your friends can find a 2013 pass for face value with some patience.

A hypothetical 2013 third Coachella weekend would have been a sales disaster.

I'm also curious how many wristbands some here think are never scanned. I think very low hundreds at most. There are "bottom feeder" scalpers willing to pick those up.

It took under 24 hours to sell out two whole weekends, plus pre-sale. The only year it has ever sold out quicker was last year, prior to that the record was six days just to sell out one weekend. Was it as fast as last year? No, of course not. But you can hardly call that unsuccessful for a festival...last year, Bonnaroo either didn't sell out or sold out just before the event took place.

[Coachella Bound]

Who said Coachella sold out? Go google search Coachella tickets. If moving mass amounts to second-hand distributors upon public release equates a sell-out, then sure. It's becoming clear to me that Coachella has never sold out, or filled to maximum capacity. It's all hype. Are you going to pay a markup because your ticket got sold to stubhub, or are you going to say fuck this careless capitalist festival??? I got my tickets, so I don't care what you do. Just curious ;D

This takes the cake.... Man i tried to side w/ you, pretended like people were just being mean because you were new. But wow.... you have got to be the dumbest mother fucker on the planet. Please just stop and reevaluate what it is you are actually trying to argue.

Basically all 160,000 passes have been sold minus some pricey hotel packages.

All the scalper tickets will re-sell for something close to face value or a modest mark up. Resale prices will be watched closely, though keep in mind that finding a place to sleep will be a challenge for latecomers.

The "hype" that's been busted is Paul Tollett's claim that the festival has enough demand to sell out 4 weekends.

and then this..... how can the hype have been busted if 4 weekends dont exist? They would have had to fail selling four weekends worth of tix for this to have been busted.

[Bumblebee]

It took under 24 hours to sell out two whole weekends, plus pre-sale. The only year it has ever sold out quicker was last year, prior to that the record was six days just to sell out one weekend. Was it as fast as last year? No, of course not. But you can hardly call that unsuccessful for a festival...last year, Bonnaroo either didn't sell out or sold out just before the event took place.

I've never called it unsuccessful. I just said it was less successful and the lineup reflected a SLOWER sellout and an influx of secondary tickets that are much more affordable than the last couple years. It's virtually confirmed(judging by forced shuttle tickets/capacity) that more tickets were sold in pre-sale than the onsale this week.

how can the hype have been busted if 4 weekends dont exist? They would have had to fail selling four weekends worth of tix for this to have been busted.

Tollett said they could do 4 weekends. Given demand the last couple years I could definitely believe 3 weekends. This lineup and this week sales show that only a lunatic would think you could fill up the field a hypothetical 3rd time.

My overall point is that headliners do matter and "weak"/"new" headliners over a couple years isn't a good business plan. Some of this is speculative but it will be interesting seeing if W2 ticket ever drop noticably below face value come March and how everyone reacts.

[MotorAve]

Begging to be mocked.

HTDA - don't play arenas. (This is not NIN)
Passion Pit - arenas are the exception, not the rule
Bassnectar - see Passion Pit
Dog Blood - don't play arenas (Not Skrillex)
Phoenix - see Bassnectar
Sigur Ros - see Phoenix
Puscifer - plays clubs and theaters (Not Tool)
Postal Service - don't play arenas (nothing Gibbard is involved in plays arenas consistently anyway)

Do you even bother looking at tour dates? Or are you just stupid enough to take 2-3 arena dates in the biggest markets and 20-30 amphitheater dates on a tour and label it an "arena level" act? For future reference, playing MSG doesn't make you an arena-level act. Playing MSG plus 30 other arenas on the same tour, does.

There's exactly ONE band on the entire poster that consistently plays arenas: RHCP. End of story.

Do you even bother to read? I didn't say HTDA is NIN, or that Puscifer is Tool. I said they're Trent Reznor and Maynard James Keenan. Both of those guys front, nay are, major arena acts. Puscifer is not a big draw only because it's a big joke (actually, Tool is a lot bigger of a joke than Puscifer, but never mind that), but HTDA has yet to play live and let's be clear that you have no earthly idea what its drawing power will be.

Did I say every act above plays arenas consistently? No, I didn't. End of story. Though, I do need to note your fail in seeking to distinguish between arenas and amphitheaters - most large amphitheaters in America are arena-sized, and several are larger than any arena. Oh, and Skrillex has headlined the largest-capacity arena in America.

Incidentally, Los Angeles happens to be one of the 2-3 biggest markets in the country. Coachella isn't in Los Angeles, you say? No shit - it's bigger than just about any venue in LA. Moron.

[AlexHeindel]

Why does every thread end up in an argument about ticket sales and hype? Take your shenanigans elsewhere.

Back to the topic.
Yes. The headliners are disappointing. I saw a quote earlier about Blur and the Stone Roses making the point that most people at the festival were going to read it and only know one song (Song 2) by Blur, between both bands. And I was like, holy shit! That's me! It was one of the most underwhelming lineup-revealing moments of the past years. I honestly believe they were a last second addition because GV couldn't close on someone much bigger. Someone that would have blown us away (referring to the much more acclaimed British rock group we were all hoping for.) But what's done is done.

Moving on.
Phoenix was an interesting pick. They've had major succeses and put on a decent show but their new album has to be pretty incredible for me to consider them a true headliner. But if they were trying to make up for the first day, then they fell short regardless. And finally we have the chili peppers. I'm not sure why most of you dislike RHCP. They're an iconic band that spawned from the L.A. punk scene (with obvious funk influences as well) and they can definitely put on a show. Saw them at Lollapalooza last year and they absolutely
killed it. RHCP, the Black Keys, and Black Sabbath was one badass hard-hitting headlining group.

[Zafocaine]

This takes the cake.... Man i tried to side w/ you, pretended like people were just being mean because you were new. But wow.... you have got to be the dumbest mother fucker on the planet. Please just stop and reevaluate what it is you are actually trying to argue.

Right on.

[nake13]

All I wanted about this poster was to not see RHCP on it... THAT'S ALL I WANTED... I would have taken pretty much anyone else this year. ANYONE. Jesus Paul. WHY?!
ughs.. okay, I'll get over it.

/rant

LOL.

Same here.

Did you hear/read that RHCP were booked just 1 hour before the lineup release?

Lame on you GV!

[travelfan]

Tollett said they could do 4 weekends. Given demand the last couple years I could definitely believe 3 weekends. This lineup and this week sales show that only a lunatic would think you could fill up the field a hypothetical 3rd time.

I am giving this one last try, and if you can't understand it, you can't understand it.

Let's say they had a hypothetical third weekend. Based on the time it took two weekends to sell out (under 24 hours), you would be correct if your argument was that they would not be able to instantly sell out three weekends. You are making an assumption based on one year of data (2012) that a sell-out is only possible in the first day, and that if it takes longer than 24 hours, then it won't sell out.

The truth is that all this proves is that to get into the first two weekends, you would have to be so gung-ho about the decision that you a) would have bought it pre-lineup during the pre-sale, or b) would buy it within 24 hours, and take time off work, buy hotels, plane tickets, etc after. There are many more people who may not pull the plug immediately on a festival of this size, but after a couple weeks of analyzing the lineup, comparing hotel fares and plane tickets, roping in friends/getting permission from parents, and making sure they can take the time off work, would eventually buy tickets. They will not be able to get into Coachella as it is structured now, but that does not remove them from under the category of "demand" for additional weekends that Paul was referring to.

In 2011, Coachella took 6 days to sell out. In 2010, it took months and months. In 2008, it didn't even sell out. So, clearly, in many past Coachellas, the majority of attendees were actually from the second group, the group that took their time.

All that you are able to prove from your "data" is that there are only enough "die-hard, we're going no matter what!" attendees to fill two weekends. Do you realize how silly it is to make a claim that there is no way another weekend would have sold out since it took twoweekends less than 24 hours to sell out, especially when in the past it took months to sell out a Coachella? You are making the claim that if an event does not sell-out instantly, it will not sell out.

Like I said, if you can't get it, you can't get it. Whatever.

[Bumblebee]

I honestly believe they were a last second addition because GV couldn't close on someone much bigger. Someone that would have blown us away (referring to the much more acclaimed British rock group we were all hoping for.) But what's done is done.

Nothing backs up the claim that Roses were a late booking. Blur was done a good 6 months ago.

Phoenix is the one I wonder about. When they came into the picture to top their day and if they were ever a sub in the past 2 months.