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Thread: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

  1. #571
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    I am sorry you are dense enough that he needed to clarify his argument by comparing guns to nuclear weapons. You don't have to keep trying to explain what his point was; you've repeated it enough the glass of water next to me has caught on. To those of us with higher brain function the point about a small scale arms race was already clearly illustrated in the article even before he got on to nuclear weapons.

    Which is what my objection is; further illustrating the point using something universally feared was not necessary and was only done to manipulate.

    I am not going to bother to respond to you when you, once again, offer an explanation of what his point was.
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  2. #572
    AMBIVALENT bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    You two should consider putting each other on ignore. There would be more dignity in it.

  3. #573
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    I am sorry you are dense enough that he needed to clarify his argument by comparing guns to nuclear weapons. You don't have to keep trying to explain what his point was; you've repeated it enough the glass of water next to me has caught on. To those of us with higher brain function the point about a small scale arms race was already clearly illustrated in the article even before he got on to nuclear weapons.

    Which is what my objection is; further illustrating the point using something universally feared was not necessary and was only done to manipulate.


    I am not going to bother to respond to you when you, once again, offer an explanation of what his point was.

    I'm only repeating because you keep saying the same ridiculous crap over and over and I'm desperately trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
    Did you seriously not remember anything you've posted before calling out the repetition? But doubt is gone. You're being a narrow minded little imp who can't comprehend the mind of anyone else but his own. Anyone who doesn't argue exactly how you want them to is a dishonest bullshitter. What a guy.

    If you think I'm too dense to understand you've got the reading comprehension of a fucking toddler who can only organize one little focused objection without realizing what's actually being said. I didn't say I fucking needed the analogy, I said the argument is an appeal to those who haven't considered guns in the context of an arms race due to them being perhaps too familiar and commonplace in their own lives. Not every damn article is written only for you. The irony here is that you are so simple minded here that you can't understand how someone can make a simple obvious analogy without trying to equate them. It's not "scare" tactics. It's just a simple damn analogy and you're too wound up to see it for what it is.

    In your tiny little world the only permissible way to convince someone is to use calm gentle comparisons of one thing to the exact same thing. Any scant hyperbole simply to illustrate a point is BULLSHIT MANIPULATION. It's boring.
    Benefit of doubt expired.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 12-28-2012 at 04:22 PM.

  4. #574

    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Who remembers the Koreans protecting their stores with assault weapons during the LA Riots? I have liberal friends who to this day still hate Koreans.
    "why are you so annoying" TheKlein25

  5. #575
    Endearingly Dislikable RotationSlimWang's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    ... You have liberal friends who hate Koreans because they protected their stores from looting? Um... pretty sure they're not liberals.
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  6. #576
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    this is an interesting take on the AR-15. i'm not sure the constitution directly covers the "shit hits the fan" argument, but i think it's worth discussing when talking about gun control, no matter how paranoid it may be.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/201...nting_and.html

    The NRA Claims the AR-15 Is Useful for Hunting and Home Defense. Not Exactly.
    By Justin Peters

    On Dec. 24, in Webster, New York, an ex-con named William Spengler set fire to his house and then shot and killed two responding firefighters before taking his own life. He shot them with a Bushmaster AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle—the same weapon that Adam Lanza used 10 days earlier when he shot and killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary. James Holmes used an AR-15-style rifle with a detachable 100-round magazine this past summer when he shot up a movie theater in Colorado. (Though the AR-15 is a specific model of rifle made by Colt, the term has come to generically refer to the many other rifles built to similar specifications.)

    Three makes a trend, as we all know, and many people have reacted by suggesting that the federal government should ban the AR-15 and other so-called assault weapons. Gun advocates have responded with exasperation, saying that, despite appearances, AR-15-style rifles are no more dangerous than any other gun. In a piece today on humanevents.com titled “The AR-15: The Gun Liberals Love to Hate,” NRA president David Keene blasted those critics who “neither understand the nature of the firearms they would ban, their popularity or legitimate uses.” Keene noted there are several valid, non-murderous uses for rifles like the AR-15—among them recreational target shooting, hunting, and home defense—and argued that law-abiding firearms owners shouldn’t be penalized because of homicidal loners who use semi-automatics like the AR-15 for criminal purposes.

    I generally consider myself a Second Amendment supporter, and I haven’t yet decided where I stand on post-Newtown gun control. I would own a gun if New York City laws didn’t make it extremely difficult to do so. But I nevertheless find Keene’s arguments disingenuous. It’s odd to cite hunting and home defense as reasons to keep selling a rifle that’s not particularly well suited, and definitely not necessary, for either. Bolt-action rifles and shotguns can also be used for hunting and home defense. Unfortunately, those guns aren’t particularly lucrative for gunmakers. The lobby’s fervent defense of military-style semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15 seems motivated primarily by a desire to protect the profits in the rapidly growing “modern sporting rifle” segment of the industry.

    The AR-15 was designed in 1957 at the behest of the U.S. Army, which asked Armalite to come up with a “high-velocity, full and semi auto fire, 20 shot magazine, 6lbs loaded, able to penetrate both sides of a standard Army helmet at 500 meters rifle,” according to ar15.com. When it entered Army service in the 1960s, it was renamed the M16, in accordance with the Army Nomenclature System. “AR-15” came to refer to the rifle’s semi-automatic civilian equivalent. From 1994 to 2004, AR-15-style rifles were subject to the now-expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Since then, the rifle and others like it have become tremendously popular. Last month, I estimated that upward of 3.5 million AR-15-style rifles currently exist in the United States. People like the rifle because it is modular and thus customizable (one article calls the AR-15 “perhaps the most flexible firearm ever developed; in seconds, a carbine can be switched over to a long-range rifle by swapping upper receivers”), because it is easy to shoot, and because carrying it around makes you look like a badass.

    But the AR-15 is not ideal for the hunting and home-defense uses that the NRA’s Keene cited today. Though it can be used for hunting, the AR-15 isn’t really a hunting rifle. Its standard .223 caliber ammunition doesn’t offer much stopping power for anything other than small game. Hunters themselves find the rifle controversial, with some arguing AR-15-style rifles empower sloppy, “spray and pray” hunters to waste ammunition. (The official Bushmaster XM15 manual lists the maximum effective rate of fire at 45 rounds per minute.) As one hunter put it in the comments section of an article on americanhunter.org, “I served in the military and the M16A2/M4 was the weapon I used for 20 years. It is first and foremost designed as an assault weapon platform, no matter what the spin. A hunter does not need a semi-automatic rifle to hunt, if he does he sucks, and should go play video games. I see more men running around the bush all cammo'd up with assault vests and face paint with tricked out AR's. These are not hunters but wannabe weekend warriors.”

    In terms of repelling a home invasion—which is what most people mean when they talk about home defense—an AR-15-style rifle is probably less useful than a handgun. The AR-15 is a long gun, and can be tough to maneuver in tight quarters. When you shoot it, it’ll overpenetrate—sending bullets through the walls of your house and possibly into the walls of your neighbor’s house—unless you purchase the sort of ammunition that fragments on impact. (This is true for other guns, as well, but, again, the thing with the AR-15 is that it lets you fire more rounds faster.)

    AR-15-style rifles are very useful, however, if what you’re trying to do is sell guns. In a recent Forbes article, Abram Brown reported that “gun ownership is at a near 20-year high, generating $4 billion in commercial gun and ammunition sales.” But that money’s not coming from selling shotguns and bolt-action rifles to pheasant hunters. In its 2011 annual report, Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation announced that bolt-action hunting rifles accounted for 6.6 percent of its net sales in 2011 (down from 2010 and 2009), while modern sporting rifles (like AR-15-style weapons) accounted for 18.2 percent of its net sales. The Freedom Group’s 2011 annual report noted that the commercial modern sporting rifle market grew at a 27 percent compound annual rate from 2007 to 2011, whereas the entire domestic long gun market only grew at a 3 percent rate.

    As the NRA’s David Keene notes, a lot of people do use modern sporting rifles for target shooting and in marksmanship competitions. But the guns also appeal to another demographic that doesn’t get nearly as much press—paranoid survivalists who worry about having to fend off thieves and trespassers in the event of disaster. Online shooting message boards are rife with references to potential “SHTF scenarios,” where SHTF stands for “shit hits the fan”—governmental collapse, societal breakdown. (Adam Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, has been described as “a gun-hoarding survivalist who was stockpiling weapons in preparation for an economic collapse.”) An article on ar15.com titled “The Ideal Rifle” notes that “the threats from crime, terrorism, natural disaster, and weapons of mass destruction are real. If something were to happen today, you would need to have made a decision about the rifle you would select and be prepared for such an event. So the need to select a ‘survival’ rifle is real. Selecting a single ‘ideal rifle’ is not easy. The AR-15 series of rifles comes out ahead when compared to everything else.” Depending on where you live, it’s perfectly legal to stockpile weapons to use in the event of Armageddon. But that’s a far different argument than the ones firearms advocates have been using since the Newtown shootings.

    As I said, I generally think of myself as a Second Amendment supporter, and a month ago, I would’ve probably agreed with the NRA’s position. But the Newtown shooting caused me to re-examine my stance—as is, I think, fitting—and to question some of the rhetoric advocates use to defend weapons like this. In his piece at Human Events, Keene ridiculed the notion that AR-15-style rifles ought to be banned just because “a half dozen [AR-15s] out of more than three million have been misused after illegally falling into the hands of crazed killers.” But the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire. When someone like Adam Lanza uses it to take out 26 people in a matter of minutes, he’s committing a crime, but he isn’t misusing the rifle. That’s exactly what it was engineered to do.
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  7. #577
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    disingenuous indeed. Those stats about the growth of "modern sport" weapons vs. home defense weapons is simply a matter of labeling.

    idiots will still always willfully exercise cognitive dissonance to exaggerate the chances of their "SHTF" scenarios while ignoring the far far larger comparable odds of near term abuses or accidents with those very same guns. How many "shit hit the fan" scenarios have there been compared to how mass shootings or accidents?

    Also the fucking ego on these people to believe that when the "SHTF" it's their own shit that the roving brigands will be coming for first. Ironically if anything will make them an early target it'll be those guns they're hoping to defend themselves with.



    The article does somewhat demonstrate one hopeful sign within the NRA though. Not sure exactly to what extent it exists, but there would seem to be a bit if a controversy within the NRA regarding assault rifles. Perhaps not enough to make a crack in the 2nd amendment fundamentalist rhetoric for now, but perhaps there's the seed of a potential compromise on assault weapons.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 01-03-2013 at 12:55 PM.

  8. #578
    Member Baby Sandwich's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    I didn't think it was humanly possible to feel sympathy for Piers Morgan


  9. #579

    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Sandwich View Post
    I didn't think it was humanly possible to feel sympathy for Piers Morgan

    Alex Jones is like the Fox news of conspiracy theories. A fear monger who sheds some light on the funny business in this world and twists it. a dis-info con to the fullest.

    we all know that fat fuck is con look at his theatrics

    look all this shit is being done not to take are guns away its just so we americans can have ANOTHER issue to squabble over

    that is all
    Last edited by ONION; 01-08-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  10. #580
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Our Shurf who is a known bigot, media whore, racist and vile piece of garbage is putting together a plan to place a bunch of other old white racists with guns outside all the schools. The unincorporated town of Guadalupe who the Shurf had run ins with before isn't too keen on this idea. You see this volunteer posse is also the same posse that spent a considerable amount of time investigating Presient Obama's Birth Certificate and came to the conclusion that Obama was not born in 'Merica. You can see why the people of Guadalupe have cited their legitimate fears publicly.

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  11. #581
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    What's a "Shurf"?

  12. #582
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    That's cartoon talk for sheriff, boy. That couldn't have been too difficult to figure out maroo.

  13. #583
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence


  14. #584

    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    get ready. the derpisphere is about to blow up in 30 minutes when Obama annouces plans to "take der ghunz!"
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  15. #585

    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Shooting games are hurtin the kids!!!


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  16. #586

    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Fuck the NRA

  17. #587
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Every time the NRA opens its mouth these days, we get one step closer to true gun reform.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
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  18. #588
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Hahaha! Love this shit. Wish I had more time today to read it.

  19. #589
    Coachella Junkie getbetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    What about nailguns hasnt anyone played Quake...Im part jewish and I have seen what they to dome to one jew.They have made necklaces to remind everyone.
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  20. #590

    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    NRA life member
    "why are you so annoying" TheKlein25

  21. #591
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    our state is so fucking arbitrary about what federal laws it wants enforce (marijuana prohibition) and which ones it won't (immigration/guns). i mean, i know this hasn't happened yet, but it's still silly.

    http://www.havasunews.com/news/lawma...9bb2963f4.html

    Lawmaker proposes making Arizona enforcement of federal gun laws illegal
    Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:01 am
    By Howard Fischer Capitol Media Services


    PHOENIX -- A proposal to make it illegal for some Arizonans to enforce federal gun laws is raising concern by the nation's largest defender of the Second Amendment.

    Todd Rathner of the National Rifle Association said he appreciates the sentiment behind the proposal by Rep. Steve Smith, R-Maricopa, to provide some protection for those who believe that new laws and regulations being proposed by the president are illegal.

    "I like the message he's trying to send,'' Rathner said. But the Tucson resident said Monday he has "real concerns'' about how such a state law would affect federally licensed firearms dealers who would be put in a position of whether to obey state or federal laws.

    "I worry about putting federal firearms licensees in the middle of a fight between us and the federal government,'' he said. "It puts them between a rock and a hard place because they worry about committing a federal crime or a state crime.''

    The legislation comes just days after President Obama announced a series of executive orders designed to deal with gun violence. And the president also asked Congress for new restrictions on certain types of guns and magazines.

    Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Tucson, chided Smith for what he said is a knee-jerk reaction.

    He said no one knows exactly how the president's orders would work. And Gallego also pointed out that Congress has yet to act on anything.

    "He's ceding to this paranoia that is out there that somehow the president and Washington are going to take their guns,'' he said.

    HB 2291 would make it illegal for any public servant to enforce federal laws or rules about firearms that remain within the state's boundaries. What specifically concerns Rathner is that prohibition also would apply to federally licensed firearms dealers.

    "If they don't follow the federal laws ... they're going to have their license yanked,'' he said. "So they're not going to get guns from the manufacturers.''

    Smith acknowledged the problem his legislation could create for federally licensed firearms dealers.

    But he pointed out that his measure contains no penalty for either public servants or dealers who ignore its provisions. Smith that that means firearms dealers fearing federal sanctions could ignore the state law without fear of state penalties.

    Rathner, however, said that provides little comfort.

    "Placing any further burden on a federal firearms licensee in terms of compliance with any law gives me great pause,'' he said.

    "They already have a book 5-inches thick they have to comply with in terms of federal laws,'' Rathner explained. "Do we really want to place another state burden on an FFL?''

    But Charles Heller, a spokesman for the Arizona Citizens Defense League said he sees one benefit to what Smith is trying to do: Get the issue in front of a judge.

    Heller said anyone challenging a federal law needs legal "standing'' to bring such a case. He said anyone who is forced to choose between conflicting state and federal laws automatically has such standing.

    One section of Smith's legislation, though, does have a penalty: Any federal official or agent who sought to enforce new federal firearms laws and rules in Arizona could be found guilty of a felony and sent to prison.

    Gallego said he believes Smith's measure goes too far even for the Republican majority in both the state House and Senate. And he suggested that even Smith realizes that, saying it's designed to get attention rather than enactment.

    "It just brings another black eye to Arizona so Steve Smith can go to his local tea party and thump on his chest and show how tough he is,'' Gallego said.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  22. #592
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    The last sentence of that article makes it all worthwhile, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  23. #593
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    http://www.khou.com/news/editors-pic...187912461.html

    HARRIS COUNTY -- At least three people, including a possible suspect, have been shot at Lone Star Community in North Harris County, according to Precinct 4 deputy constables.

    Dozens of law enforcement officers are searching for the gunman who got away. One of the places they are searching is a wooded area north of the campus.

    Witnesses say two males were arguing when one of them pulled a gun and opened fire.

    At least three people were wounded, including the man involved in the argument, according to witnesses.

    KHOU 11 News stringer Lloyd Overcash saw one male being brought out of the library on a stretcher. He was reportedly handcuffed to the stretcher, according to witnesses.

    Mark Zaragosa, an EMT student, got some hands-on experience when he spotted two victims before police arrived.

    "I actually had just come out of EMT class and I noticed that there were two downed victims so I stopped to render assistance," Zaragosa said. "The two people that I took care of had just minor injuries. One gentleman had a gunshot to the knee and the [other] actually had an entry wound to the lower buttocks area."

    The shooting happened around 12:30 p.m. at the campus in the 2700 block of W.W. Thorne Drive, near Bush Intercontinental Airport.

    One student said she and other people dove under their desks when they heard the gunshots.

    The campus is on lockdown, but students are being allowed to leave. No one is being allowed to enter the campus.

    Harris County Sheriff Adrian Garcia tweeted "we have an active shooter on the campus. stay away from the area," at 1:40 p.m.

    Several Aldine ISD schools are also on lockdown while the search for the suspect continues. They are Nimitz High School, Nimitz 9th Grade Campus, Parker Intermediate and Dunn Clifford Elementary.

    We'll have more details as they become available

  24. #594
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Think he would have gotten away if everyone was armed?

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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    You're allowed to carry guns on Texas campuses. Are you suggesting forced arming of students, because if not, this is the result of someone being allowed to carry a concealed weapon on campus. This is also where most gun injuries come from: escalated arguments that turn into shootings because people are allowed to carry concealed weapons in public.
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by marooko View Post
    Think he would have gotten away if everyone was armed?
    Grrr No....cr****

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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    You guys crack me up some times. I like it.

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    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Hey, guns make people safe. Clearly the safest places are the ones with the most guns. Like, say, at a gun show.

    5 accidentally shot at gun shows in North Carolina, Ohio and Indiana.

    All incidents were accidents and all occurred on Saturday, January 19. None of the injuries were life-threatening.
    In NC a shotgun went off when being removed from its case for a private sale. Three attendees were struck.
    In OH an exhibitor's gun (type not identified) went off when the box it was in was opened. His partner was hit.
    In IN an attendee was loading his .45 auto while leaving and shot himself in the hand.
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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    Hey, guns make people safe. Clearly the safest places are the ones with the most guns. Like, say, at a gun show.

    5 accidentally shot at gun shows in North Carolina, Ohio and Indiana.

    All incidents were accidents and all occurred on Saturday, January 19. None of the injuries were life-threatening.
    In NC a shotgun went off when being removed from its case for a private sale. Three attendees were struck.
    In OH an exhibitor's gun (type not identified) went off when the box it was in was opened. His partner was hit.
    In IN an attendee was loading his .45 auto while leaving and shot himself in the hand.
    Gun appreciation day. America.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

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    Default Re: In which we discuss: Guns, Second Amendment, Weaponry, and Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by getbetter View Post
    What about nailguns hasnt anyone played Quake...Im part jewish and I have seen what they to dome to one jew.They have made necklaces to remind everyone.


    seriously though...Rifles of all kinds combined with shotguns only account for approximately 1/4 of all gun related homicides over the last 30 or so years. The emotional argument behind "assault" rifles needs to be tempered with a little of this reality.

    Hand guns are the issue that needs to be addressed if we want to reduce gun violence in our country.
    Last edited by Cheddar's Cousin; 01-22-2013 at 06:57 PM.
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    Replies: 89
    Last Post: 10-25-2009, 07:14 PM
  5. GUNS!!
    By marooko in forum Misc. Lounge
    Replies: 261
    Last Post: 07-08-2008, 11:20 PM

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