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Thread: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

  1. #1
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    If a thread like this exists, I couldn't find it; apologies. I think it is important that people think about how their privacy is being eroded by the government and by private industry. You know those supermarket discount cards? they use those to track your purchases so they can target market to you. etc etc.

    Anyway use this thread to bitch about privacy issues.

    Saw this today:





    WASHINGTON — Many motorists don’t know it, but it’s likely that every time they get behind the wheel, there’s a snitch along for the ride.

    In the next few days, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is expected to propose long-delayed regulations requiring auto manufacturers to include event data recorders — better known as “black boxes” — in all new cars and light trucks. But the agency is behind the curve. Automakers have been quietly tucking the devices, which automatically record the actions of drivers and the responses of their vehicles in a continuous information loop, into most new cars for years.

    When a car is involved in a crash or when its airbags deploy, inputs from the vehicle’s sensors during the 5 to 10 seconds before impact are automatically preserved. That’s usually enough to record things like how fast the car was traveling and whether the driver applied the brake, was steering erratically or had a seat belt on.

    The idea is to gather information that can help investigators determine the cause of accidents and lead to safer vehicles. But privacy advocates say government regulators and automakers are spreading an intrusive technology without first putting in place policies to prevent misuse of the information collected.

    Data collected by the recorders is increasingly showing up in lawsuits, criminal cases and high-profile accidents. Massachusetts Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray initially said that he wasn’t speeding and that he was wearing his seat belt when he crashed a government-owned car last year. But the Ford Crown Victoria’s data recorder told a different story: It showed the car was traveling more than 100 mph (160 kph) and Murray wasn’t belted in.

    In 2007, then-New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine was seriously injured in the crash of an SUV driven by a state trooper. Corzine was a passenger. The SUV’s recorder showed the vehicle was traveling 91 mph (146 kph) on a parkway where the speed limit was 65 mph (105 kph), and Corzine didn’t have his seat belt on.

    There’s no opt-out. It’s extremely difficult for car owners to disable the recorders. Although some vehicle models have had recorders since the early 1990s, a federal requirement that automakers disclose their existence in owner’s manuals didn’t go into effect until three months ago. Automakers who voluntarily put recorders in vehicles are also now required to gather a minimum of 15 types of data.

    Besides the upcoming proposal to put recorders in all new vehicles, the traffic safety administration is also considering expanding the data requirement to include as many as 30 additional types of data such as whether the vehicle’s electronic stability control was engaged, the driver’s seat position or whether the front-seat passenger was belted in. Some manufacturers already are collecting the information. Engineers have identified more than 80 data points that might be useful.

    Despite privacy complaints, the traffic safety administration so far hasn’t put any limits on how the information can be used. About a dozen states have some law regarding data recorders, but the rest do not.

    “Right now we’re in an environment where there are no rules, there are no limits, there are no consequences and there is no transparency,” said Lillie Coney, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a privacy advocacy group. “Most people who are operating a motor vehicle have no idea this technology is integrated into their vehicle.”

    Part of the concern is that the increasing computerization of cars and the growing transmission of data to and from vehicles could lead to unintended uses of recorder data.

    “Basically your car is a computer now, so it can record all kinds of information,” said Gloria Bergquist, vice president of the Alliance of Automotive Manufacturers. “It’s a lot of the same issues you have about your computer or your smartphone and whether Google or someone else has access to the data.”

    The alliance opposes the government requiring recorders in all vehicles.

    Data recorders “help our engineers understand how cars perform in the real world, and we already have put them on over 90 percent of (new) vehicles without any mandate being necessary,” Bergquist said.

    Safety advocates, however, say requiring data recorders in all cars is the best way to gather a large enough body of reliable information to enable vehicle designers to make safer cars.

    “The barn door is already open. It’s a question of whether we use the information that’s already out there,” said Henry Jasny, vice president of Advocates for Highway and Automotive Safety.

    The National Transportation Safety Board has been pushing for recorders in all passenger vehicles since the board’s investigation of a 2003 accident in which an elderly driver plowed through an open-air market in Santa Monica, Calif. Ten people were killed and 63 were injured. The driver refused to be interviewed and his 1992 Buick LeSabre didn’t have a recorder. After ruling out other possibilities, investigators ultimately guessed that he had either mistakenly stepped on the gas pedal or had stepped on the gas and the brake pedals at the same time.

    When reports of sudden acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles cascaded in 2009 and 2010, recorder data from some of the vehicles contributed to the traffic safety administration’s conclusion that the problem was probably sticky gas pedals and floor mats that could jam them, not defects in electronic throttle control systems.

    “Black box” is a mechanic’s term for a part that should only be opened by someone with authority to do so. The term is most widely used to refer to flight data recorders, which continually gather hundreds of data points about an aircraft’s operation during flight. Aircraft recorders, by law, are actually bright orange.

    Some automakers began installing the recorders at a time when there were complaints that air bags might be causing deaths and injuries, partly to protect themselves against liability and partly to improve air bag technology. Most recorders are black boxes about the size of a deck of card with circuit boards inside. After an accident, information is downloaded to a laptop computer using a tool unique to the vehicle’s manufacturer. As electronics in cars have increased, the kinds of data that can be recorded have grown as well. Some more recent recorders are part of the vehicle’s computers rather than a separate device.

    Democratic Rep. Michael Capuano has repeatedly, and unsuccessfully, introduced legislation to require that automakers design recorders so that they can be disabled by motorists

    A transportation bill passed by the Senate earlier this year would have required that all new cars and light trucks have recorders and designated a vehicle’s owner as the owner of the data. The provision was removed during House-Senate negotiations on the measure at the behest of House Republican lawmakers who said they were concerned about privacy.

    “Many of us would see it as a slippery slope toward big government and Big Brother knowing what we’re doing and where we are,” Rep. Bill Shuster, R-Pa., who is slated to take over the chairmanship of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee in January, said at the time. “Privacy is a big concern for many across America.”
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Smart phones.

  3. #3
    Coachella Junkie Neighborhood Creep's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I'm getting paranoid

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    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Patriot Act.

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    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  7. #7
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    IF YOU'RE DOING NOTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  8. #8
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    The drones here caused a HUGE ruckus. I don't know that their usage has been resolved yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

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    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    This post, this thread, this forum, Facebook, google, yahoo, Amazon.....the fucking internet. Privacy?! Ha!

  10. #10
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Marooko (Af-Carabi المغرب, al-Maġrib, ama Boqortooyada Marooko.waa wadan ku yaalo woqooyiga Afrika. Marooko waa wadan carbed, oo weeninkiiso yahay 710.850 km˛, hadii lagu daro Saxaraha Galbeedka. shacabka ku nool neh waxee gaarayaan 31,993,00 qof. Marooko waxee xad la wadaagtaa wadamanka Al jeeriya,dhinaca woqooyi neh waxaa kaga dhagan Badweynta Atlaantik, iyo Galbeedka Sahara. oo ah meel haysata maamul hoosaad.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  11. #11
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Audit logs are detective in nature. With GPS and the extensive GSM network, why not transmit these events real-time so authorities can hone in on potential risk and prevent incidents BEFORE they happen.

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    Brackish African wmgaretjax's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Audit logs are detective in nature. With GPS and the extensive GSM network, why not transmit these events real-time so authorities can hone in on potential risk and prevent incidents BEFORE they happen.
    i think there are plenty of reasons why not... but despite those, there is no reason for the retention to be that extensive.

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    Member EastLos01's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I hate that I try to download an app and one of the conditions is that they can use my phone camera to record or take pics at any time, or read my accounts. I stay away from those.
    You know, but that's valid because if we are all gonna die anyway shouldn't we be enjoying ourselves now? You know, I'd like to quit thinking of the present, like right now, as some minor insignificant preamble to something else.

    ---------------------------------------------------
    It's that tad bit of Crazy that keeps me Sane...

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I fully support this thread, as privacy seems to be a thing of the past, and it shouldn't be. The problem with this type of discussion is eventually someone throws around the word "conspiracy", followed by "crazy", and then any credibility that any side has turns to shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by RotationSlimWang View Post
    Smooches. =)

  15. #15
    old school ThatGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Facebook "locations". If you post or update status or a photo, it notes your location. No thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by M Sparks View Post
    It's all riding on this. You've got big dreams to ride to the top of the Flash Mob world. Well internet fame costs. And right now is when you start paying for it...in sweat.
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    hey. get your own colonoscopy thread, bitch.

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    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgaretjax View Post
    i think there are plenty of reasons why not... but despite those, there is no reason for the retention to be that extensive.
    The mitigation would outweigh any other reasons. Clearly, there’d be no capacity to address everyone whose car signals-in that they’re barely speeding or are driving wasted, but drivers should at least be put on watch if they start breaching multiple thresholds like speeding AND drunk or loud music AND high heart-rate or excessive lane switching AND no turn signal, etc…

    And then there is this:
    A patent application from Verizon describes a DVR that would watch the living room for "ambient actions" like people singing, fighting, or even cuddling. It would then choose "appropriate" advertisement to show based on its analysis. It isn't the first attempt at this kind of thing, but it might be the creepiest.

    The patent, filed May 26, 2011, is entitled "Methods and Systems for Presenting an Advertisement Associated with an Ambient Action of a User." The idea is simple enough: using a built-in camera, the DVR would check that state of the people watching, and make changes to advertising based on that.

  17. #17
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Audit logs are detective in nature. With GPS and the extensive GSM network, why not transmit these events real-time so authorities can hone in on potential risk and prevent incidents BEFORE they happen.
    THOUGHT CRIMES THOUGHT CRIMES
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  18. #18
    Brackish African wmgaretjax's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Clearly, there’d be no capacity to address everyone whose car signals-in that they’re barely speeding or are driving wasted, but drivers should at least be put on watch if they start breaching multiple thresholds like speeding AND drunk or loud music AND high heart-rate or excessive lane switching AND no turn signal, etc…
    if you are joking, i applaud you for your masterfully executed dryness. if not... well... ok. i forget that people actually exist that are comfortable with ideas like this.

    might as well put those resources into self-driving cars instead.
    Last edited by wmgaretjax; 12-07-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  19. #19
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I want those resources put into self-arresting criminals.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  20. #20
    Coachella Junkie GuyInTucson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I am awaiting faxman's inevitable contribution to this thread.
    10/8 - Little Dragon @ Marquee (Tempe, AZ)
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    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Faxman's gone off the grid for good. He's planning to live off nothing but his goatee for the next five years.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

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    old school JorgeC's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Audit logs are detective in nature. With GPS and the extensive GSM network, why not transmit these events real-time so authorities can hone in on potential risk and prevent incidents BEFORE they happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by wmgaretjax View Post
    i think there are plenty of reasons why not... but despite those, there is no reason for the retention to be that extensive.
    Tom Cruise already invented this in Minority Report.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Which healthcare provider will euthanize you the fastest as a service to society?
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    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyInTucson View Post
    I am awaiting faxman's inevitable contribution to this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    Faxman's gone off the grid for good. He's planning to live off nothing but his goatee for the next five years.
    lololol
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  24. #24
    Member EastLos01's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    And then there is this

    A patent application from Verizon describes a DVR that would watch the living room for "ambient actions" like people singing, fighting, or even cuddling. It would then choose "appropriate" advertisement to show based on its analysis. It isn't the first attempt at this kind of thing, but it might be the creepiest.

    The patent, filed May 26, 2011, is entitled "Methods and Systems for Presenting an Advertisement Associated with an Ambient Action of a User." The idea is simple enough: using a built-in camera, the DVR would check that state of the people watching, and make changes to advertising based on that.
    Thats the first thing that came to mind the first time I saw the X Box Kinect.
    You know, but that's valid because if we are all gonna die anyway shouldn't we be enjoying ourselves now? You know, I'd like to quit thinking of the present, like right now, as some minor insignificant preamble to something else.

    ---------------------------------------------------
    It's that tad bit of Crazy that keeps me Sane...

  25. #25
    Brackish African wmgaretjax's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    patents really are meaningless in terms of indications of what a company will actually do. microsoft has a patent on charging more for streaming video rentals based on the number of people in the room re kinect... but would be an absurd thing to try and implement. the behavioral advertising seems like something some stupid company would actually try. although some folks are perfectly fine with web-based tracking (probably in part because they don't understand the granularity of it), i'd bet a lot more folks would start to freak out over the prospect of targeting ads based on physical behavior in the home.

  26. #26
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread


  27. #27
    Coachella Junkie Alchemy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I have a friend who reconstructs accidents and I remember he mentioned those "black boxes" once. (He actually did a IAmA once on Reddit that was quite successful.)

    He says that the box is usually under the driver's seat, in the center tunnel; or underneath the dashboard, on the driver's side. It's a kind of plug.

    He also posted this list, saying that a similar list exists that also says where the box can be located: http://www.cdr-system.com/pdf/CDR_v5...erage_List.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    I try to be politically pc more than most here: As a dude, anyone who could put a shark up a gals pc body, is pretty creepy, different and interesting. Just saying big time ..... cr****

  28. #28
    old school thefunkylama's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    This is just the kind of thing that makes a woman consider building a bunker in the mountainside somewhere.


  29. #29

    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    Verizon is trying to patent a cable box that can detect how many people are in the room, using microphones, thermal imaging, etc. Then, depending on the the box's assessment of the situation, it will tailor adverts specifically to whoever is in the room.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...matically.html
    Quote Originally Posted by TickleMeElmo View Post
    Coachella will come out of the closet announcing it's gay. Most will applaud it while some will sell their passes.

  30. #30
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big Brother Is Watching You Thread

    I heard that too somewhere.

    Also, I heard that there's this cable box that can detect things in the room like what they're doing and how much popcorn they're eating.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

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