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Thread: prohibition is over

  1. #31

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Yeah, this isn't important because now people in Colorado can finally smoke weed after being deprived for so long, it's important as a challenge to federal drug prohibition and as (in my opinion) one of the first serious steps towards making weed legal everywhere, and maybe looking at how terrible the War on Drugs is in general (though I won't hold my breath on this one).

    Basically everything that happens from this point forward is going to be interesting:

    - prices in CO (I think they'll go down)
    - DEA's response
    - Obama's response
    - increased revenues in CO
    - increased crime in CO (lol)
    - if people still buy from dealers
    - how other states react in upcoming elections

    etc. etc. I'd say this is as important as when MMJ first began in terms of getting rid of this stupid fucking prohibition. I'm thinking most people will buy from the stores, honestly... buying from a dealer sucks and why would you do that unless it was way more convenient or way cheaper? I mean people will still cop from friends/neighbors who grow but if you're just a normal person and you want weed you're gonna go to a store so you can pay with your credit card and so you don't have to watch the end of a Family Guy episode before your dude weighs you out a sack.

  2. #32
    Rover canexplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I still buy from stores just for a change, but my crop is the best and does the job as it were ...cr****
    Have Another Hit Of Colorado Sunshine

  3. #33
    Coachella Junkie Mugwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Actually I believe prices will go up, more citizens will feel less stigma about doing it. Those who have been law-abiding fearful citizens their whole lives will maybe take a chance and toke. There is never enough weed for the demand, and if the feds don't step in, that's basically a green light to the industry and the people. Sure more people may grow, but the work and quality of bud most people can grow thems (not to mention the clones they obtain) won't be what they enjoy. Local neighborhood dealers will probably just setup a storefront, but most likely will stay underground if the license to sell is a high cost. Even with storefronts, people will probably still call their dealer as he is the guy most likely doing whole sale to the store. So he can compete with the prices and I'm sure all local growers/dealers won't undercut eachother like idiots into being poor.

    Those who want to pay with a credit card will still have to deal with the stoner at the store watching family guy.

  4. #34

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    The craft breweries and younger brewers that are changing beer as we know it is a huge example of what to expect in the CO marijuana scene. The younger generation is breaking all perceptions of what most think it will be. Perfection in craft through science and a local mindset will create a market here in Colorado that changes perceptions in all areas. Accessibility in limited quantities, but available to everyone. Quality of the highest standards.

    You can see it the food mind set too. Restaurants all over the world are shifting the perceptions craft niches.

    I might just be rambling but the quality of many items these days blows my mind.

  5. #35
    Coachella Junkie Mugwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    All the young kids love Dabs now anyways.

  6. #36
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubesock Shakur View Post
    Ummmmm we don't need cards anymore. We legalized it. You will be able to buy it at stores that apply for a Marjuana license. It is regulated the same way liquor is now. If the 7-11 is a 1000ft from schools or libraries and doesn't have over abundant marijuana advertising it will be sold the same as alcohol.

    The mmj dispensaries can change their business models if they choose now to be more like a liquor store.

    I can also have six plants in my front window if I want.
    my mistake. I was under the impression that MMJ weren't necessarily open to the public, it was explained to me in more of a complete decriminalization way. Do the MMJs have an automatic public license now?

    Any idea how expensive and rigorous will the licensing process be? And what are the rules for how the weed is sourced to these licensees?
    I can see an expensive bureaucracy developing around this.

  7. #37
    Rover canexplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    my mistake. I was under the impression that MMJ weren't necessarily open to the public, it was explained to me in more of a complete decriminalization way. Do the MMJs have an automatic public license now?

    Any idea how expensive and rigorous will the licensing process be? And what are the rules for how the weed is sourced to these licensees?
    I can see an expensive bureaucracy developing around this.
    It used to cost about $40 for an a doc eval. I know it might change things here in Co..... times are a changing..... They say be careful about what you wish for .cr****
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  8. #38

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I gotta completely disagree with your assessment of prices. I'm not sure how the MMJ thing works in CO but in California production and distribution to the MMJ clubs is still kind of iffy and quasi-black market.

    Weed is easy as fuck to grow when you don't have to worry about hiding it, and you won't unless you're trying to be the CO Weed Kingpin or whatever and you get on the DEA's radar.

    Buying from a dealer is still going to be cheaper, I'd say, but just like most people don't go out of their way to buy homebrewed beers locally I think the majority of weedsmokers are going to be fine paying a bit more if it means they can park their car and walk in and buy some legit weed with a card and punch their "10 eights = a free eighth" card and go on about their business. The sense of legitimacy of the storefront shouldn't be discounted, I don't think.

    I will say you are wrong about buying from dealers directly. Unless you're very lucky, it sucks and nobody is going to miss it. I mean, when the difference is $10 I'm personally going to choose the storefront every time.

  9. #39
    old school Drewski27's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    It will be interesting to see how it affects regular drug dealers. I am pretty sure they wont give a shit though. The legal weed they're gonna sell will be more expensive than what the common pusher would ask for.
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  10. #40
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

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  11. #41

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Yes, probably, but legal storefronts have a lot of benefits that justify the difference in price.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
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  12. #42

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    my mistake. I was under the impression that MMJ weren't necessarily open to the public, it was explained to me in more of a complete decriminalization way. Do the MMJs have an automatic public license now?

    Any idea how expensive and rigorous will the licensing process be? And what are the rules for how the weed is sourced to these licensees?
    I can see an expensive bureaucracy developing around this.
    MMJ dispensaries are not open to the public currently. From my understanding they can keep the current business model of doctors note required. This will work in the favor of those under 21. Our dispensaries are also for profit unlike California.

    The MMJ dispensaries do not have automatic public licenses now. They will have to file with the state and change up their business model, but their current applications are grandfathered in and can obtain one at a lower cost. The thing is with Colorado no dispensary has a license just "applications" this because federal law has yet to approve the applications. From what I have heard and read obtaining an application is one of the most difficult things you can get in the state of Colorado. Current mmj dispensary licenses run$5,000. Marijuana is currently grown in house that the CBI has total watch over cameras on front doors where you flash your red card to cameras on all grow areas. The CBI division does routine in house audits too. As far as bureaucracy I don't think they want to stray much from current mmj models.

    I don't know if you will get the giant warehouse growers to move in and try to dominate over the smaller shops, but from what I understand now is that most are happy with current models.

    For example with Liquor stores Colorado voted against grocery store, convenience store, gas station sales eith the exception of 3.2, but who drinks that piss. We have a majority mind set of small business is good. We did approve that big grocers can have only one of their stores to carry alcohol. I can see it following this type of model.
    Last edited by Tubesock Shakur; 11-07-2012 at 11:11 AM.

  13. #43
    Coachella Junkie Mugwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I disagree, the microbrew beers isn't the same as a few LBs of good MJ. A 100LBs of OG/Bubba from a top grower may still never hit a storefront due to the price being too high for a storefront (usually storefronts are cheap mother fuckers who want a Mercedez for the price of a KIA) and yet in the underground market, will still fetch ~2500-3200lb depending on how much of it is purchased at once. Ounces from those pounds with high quality will still fetch $250-$300.

    I find it very hard to imagine it going under $200/oz for high quality ganja, sure maybe the shitshow that Charlie down the street grows will be $100 an oz or cheaper, but as you're smoking that cheap shit from the store and your friend puff's some vegetable candy, you'll reconsider your source.


    **Storefronts in CA are usually asking for $2400 or less, usually buying in a single LB or wanting a 1/2lb, while the street would still fetch $3000-$3100 when buying in singles or split packs.

    I just hope for you in CO you don't get swamped with a bunch of noobs trying to get rich quick with ganja. It's been awful in CA. A poor friend of mine is convinced he can obtain large numbers by growing ganja according the formula the hydro store gives him. All those guys are doing is telling him to buy the most expensive organic ingredients, and most likely he's choking his girls with a terrible PPM ratio by putting too much in the water.
    Last edited by Mugwog; 11-07-2012 at 11:17 AM.

  14. #44

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Here in Colorado storefronts are required to be the grower no outside buying allowed unless you are a caregiver. Most of the time if you are buying from a caregiver you know who you are buying from.

    This is why our business model for mmj has flourished and California has run into trouble. California is still on the fringe of black market.
    Last edited by Tubesock Shakur; 11-07-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  15. #45

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    You can get rich quick here but you better be a pioneer and one of the first in the game and know what the fuck you are doing. Consumers are becoming way more informed these days and are running the bullshit out of town. Thank you Internet reviews.

  16. #46
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I do not miss the liquor laws outside of CA. You can get pretty much any type of alcohol anywhere here. It's glorious to be able to buy wine and liquor in the grocery store. 2 damn aisles devoted specifically to it. One stop shopping. club card specials. I'll take that over legal weed any day.

  17. #47

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I like the liquor stores we have here. They range from specialty wine, to just craft beers, or giant superstores that carry everything and have informed employees. its nice to go in and shoot the shit with a store owner that suggests stuff or if you want to hurry up and buy, they are cool with that too.

    I feel a disconnect with the grocery stores as they just sell what some higher up told them to buy from a distributor because they can get a discount buying in bulk.

    We also get way more choices when stores buy direct from independent brewers, distilleries, and vineyards. It may be limited and more expensive but damn its good.
    Last edited by Tubesock Shakur; 11-07-2012 at 11:44 AM.

  18. #48
    Coachella Junkie Mugwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    How is your rum selection in CO? As a rum fan, I find most places have Bacardi or some spiced bullshit.

  19. #49
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    So what J is saying is that I need to get rich enough to afford higher priced commodities before I move to Colorado?
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    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  20. #50

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugwog View Post
    How is your rum selection in CO? As a rum fan, I find most places have Bacardi or some spiced bullshit.
    I can walk into one of the more upscale liquor stores and find a full isle dedicated to 100+ different types of Rum from the cheap shit to up scale premium.

    Here is an example http://www.argonautliquor.com/ A fucking two story liquor store!! If they dont have it the will specialty order it at no extra cost most of the time. THEY DELIVER TOO. PIZZA PARTY AND BOOZE WITHOUT LEAVING MY COUCH.
    Last edited by Tubesock Shakur; 11-07-2012 at 12:03 PM.

  21. #51

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    So what J is saying is that I need to get rich enough to afford higher priced commodities before I move to Colorado?
    Not at all, competition still keeps prices down.

  22. #52
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I'm really curious how this plays out in terms of federal prosecution & enforcement. I'm assuming they'll consider it essentially decriminalized and opt not to pursue arrest and charges for users/buyers/growers of smaller amounts? How much of a blind eye can they turn to large-scale growing and distribution? Do they just hassle a fraction of those involved in manufacture & sale as a token measure? I'm certainly no expert but my understanding was that the federal government has no ability to legalize or even decriminalize manufacture/sale without violating international (UN) treaties. For the US to legalize marijuana fully at the federal level, we would first have to get the UN policy changed or violate UN policy and accept the resulting sanctions, no?

    A month ago, I had a really long chat with a MMJ farm & dispensary owner who was saying that the feds seemingly target, first and foremost, the farms who are guilty (or suspected to be guilty) of other charges, for example, tax evasion being a common factor. I could see that continuing to be a policy as to have token enforcement without directly battling state laws.

  23. #53

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by chiapet View Post

    A month ago, I had a really long chat with a MMJ farm & dispensary owner who was saying that the feds seemingly target, first and foremost, the farms who are guilty (or suspected to be guilty) of other charges, for example, tax evasion being a common factor. I could see that continuing to be a policy as to have token enforcement without directly battling state laws.
    This is the biggest problem with legalization we will have. Currently banks do not accept deposit from MMJ dispensaries as doing so would violate federal banking laws. So how will they ensure that the correct amount of Tax is collected?

    As Colorado banks have dropped medical marijuana-related accounts in order to comply with federal regulations, MMJ business owners are looking for advice on how to manage their now often cash-only enterprises. And they're not the only ones asking, as Robert Frichtel recently discovered.

    Bloomberg News recently contacted Frichtel, managing partner of the Colorado-based Medical Marijuana Business Exchange, a for-profit company providing consulting services for MMJ outfits in Colorado and other states where medical marijuana is legal, who wrote an op-ed on behalf of his clients, advocating for legal access to banking for the MMJ industry.

    Frichtel says his phone has been "off the hook" since the piece ran in Bloomberg last week (it was reprinted in the Denver Post Sunday), adding that it seems like he's "getting the conversation started." Of his estimated fifty clients in Colorado, a majority have lost their banking relationships. "This is something that a lot of people who look at the medical marijuana industry don't even realize has happened," Frichtel notes.

    But those in the MMJ industry certainly recognize the problems that running a cash-only business presents. "The major, major challenge comes in with the federal payroll system and the way you have to submit taxes," Frichtel says. "By the elimination of people having access to banks, it's at odds with submitting payroll taxes." Submitting payroll taxes under an electronic system, without access to a bank account, is "an absolute nightmare," he adds.

    There are other challenges, too. "We have started to work closely with tax lawyers to have the business owners best manage their businesses in an all-cash environment," Frichtel explains. "It's easier to lose track of cash, so it means, really, an additional layer: an accounting cash-management layer inside of the business."

    The federal crackdown on bank accounts for MMJ businesses has been remarkably successful across the nation - in part, Frichtel says, because of how owners have branded their MMJ companies. "Marketing 101 says to name your business to tell people what you do, so when you go into a bank, you're immediately identified by what you do," he explains. And while some MMJ companies are now using less specific names, that's not a long-term solution. "I advise people to be honest all the time," Frichtel concludes. "I don't tell people to go in and lie to a bank. But if it can be slightly more generic, there are people giving that advice."

  24. #54
    Member thewoodenman's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    It's the beginning for sure (but it had to start somewhere besides dispensaries), there are still 48 to go.. Going to be an interesting development indeed. You know fast food chain execs and potato chip manufacturers everywhere are elated right now.
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  25. #55
    Coachella Junkie Mugwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    What about the trimmer's union!

  26. #56

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubesock Shakur View Post
    MMJ stores will stick around for those people under 21
    wait what's the age requirement for MMJ? is there any?

    Also, I'm assuming this will not affect workplace drug testing...that's the biggest reason why I don't "smoke weed every day" (or more than a handful of times, really.) Not to get into a 101 discussion of how long it stays in your system, etc...but will CO workplaces that drug test still continue to test for marijuana? Will it still fall under "illegal drugs"? Quite possibly if they go by the federal list. I'm pretty sure drug tests also include alcohol but that's never been a problem for me. I'm just curious how workplaces will react to this in CO.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Employers don't want people working under the influence of anything regardless of its legality. This will not have an impact on workplace drug-testing.
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  28. #58
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    It's a slightly sticky issue because if there are pre-employment drug screens and THC pops up...well, it stays in your system a long time, plus it's technically legal. Not to say that private employers have to honor the legality, they're free to make whatever rules they want. But I suppose they could be (probably unsuccessfully?) challenged.
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  29. #59
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by xuclarockerx View Post
    wait what's the age requirement for MMJ? is there any?

    Also, I'm assuming this will not affect workplace drug testing...that's the biggest reason why I don't "smoke weed every day" (or more than a handful of times, really.) Not to get into a 101 discussion of how long it stays in your system, etc...but will CO workplaces that drug test still continue to test for marijuana? Will it still fall under "illegal drugs"? Quite possibly if they go by the federal list. I'm pretty sure drug tests also include alcohol but that's never been a problem for me. I'm just curious how workplaces will react to this in CO.
    I have a friend that works in the HR office for a company in Ft. Collins, and she told me last year that even if someone has a card to purchase marijuana for medical reasons, they will still deny a person employment if they test positive. She said that it was an ongoing discussion, but based on that information, I have to think that some employers may still fire/not hire someone if they test positive. My questions is, if this happens, can people sue for being denied employment due to doing something outside of work that is completely legal.

  30. #60

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I think that will have to shake out in the courts, probably a while from now... Cigarette smoking is only explicitly protected in a handful of states, and in the rest you can fire/refuse to hire people for smoking. This would potentially be different because weed has medical benefits in ways that tobacco does not, but it's going to be a while before we have an actual, legal answer to that.

    Drinkey isn't fully correct. Weed is fucking weird in that it works equally well for the cancer patient who needs his appetite back as it does for the teenagers who want to rip bongz and play videogames all afternoon. It's entirely possible that being under the influence of weed at work could be protected for those with a legitimate medical need for it (just like any prescription), at least in some jurisdictions.

    Basically though, this is why I'm so happy this passed, because these questions are going to start showing up in the courts before too long.

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