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Thread: prohibition is over

  1. #61
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Employers don't want people working under the influence of anything regardless of its legality. This will not have an impact on workplace drug-testing.
    I don't think that will be true. Employers don't want people working under the influence of anything that can cause impairment, even if it's legal, and they have a right to prohibit employees from coming to work under the influence, consuming drugs/alcohol at the workplace, or even just bringing drugs/alcohol into the workplace. However, there's a pretty significant difference between testing abilities for alcohol and other drugs, ie, it is easy to prove or disprove that an employee has come to work intoxicated on alcohol or has consumed alcohol while at work. The drug test for marijuana would come back positive even if you've never violated your employment code by consuming at work or coming to work under the influence.

    Of course employees would have no protection under federal law, but I bet people would bring unlawful termination suits against companies if and unless the company could prove there was use that violated the employment code.

  2. #62
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Trick Loves The Kids View Post
    Weed is fucking weird in that it works equally well for the cancer patient who needs his appetite back as it does for the teenagers who want to rip bongz and play videogames all afternoon. It's entirely possible that being under the influence of weed at work could be protected for those with a legitimate medical need for it (just like any prescription), at least in some jurisdictions.

    Basically though, this is why I'm so happy this passed, because these questions are going to start showing up in the courts before too long.
    That is very true, and unless companies change their employment policies to indicate that they will terminate employees for breaking the federal laws while not on work premises, there is not going to be jack that companies can do about employees who decide to smoke while not at work. And while you "can" fire someone for smoking, you can also bring suit for wrongful termination.

  3. #63
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    You can test for active THC versus metabolized THC though, which is how the DUIs are going to work...possibly that's how employers will screen?
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
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  4. #64
    old school SepaGroove's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Really curious to see how this all shakes out. You guys made some interesting points, I wish I joined in on the convo a few hours ago.

    IMO people are just going to continue to pick up off their dealer. I think the market will be flooded with shitty ganj.

  5. #65
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Yeah, in practical terms this makes 0 difference for me since I don't partake. I'm just really intensely interested in/curious about how all the questions get answered and how the retail structure gets set up.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

  6. #66
    Member fetuspiniata's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Employers don't want people working under the influence of anything regardless of its legality. This will not have an impact on workplace drug-testing.
    I'm sure the legality of screening for THC will come into question. An employer should not be able to deny you employment for having a "legal" substance in your system when it can stay there for 30+ days even though its effects only last 2-3 hours.

  7. #67
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by miscorrections View Post
    You can test for active THC versus metabolized THC though, which is how the DUIs are going to work...possibly that's how employers will screen?
    I'd read that the blood tests could still report active THC up to a couple of days after you'd last consumed, though. I'm not aware of any test that can prove a person has smoked within the last "x" hours. I think employers are going to have a really tough time terminating employees when they can't prove the person has come to work high or consumed at work.

  8. #68
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Well, there have been studies - which is how our DUI cutoff was reached (5 ng/ml active THC) - and you fall well below the active THC limit within 3 hours after smoking. So it shouldn't be a big deal.
    Last edited by miscorrections; 11-07-2012 at 03:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

  9. #69
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Just fyi, a California case (so not ruling law in Wash or Colorado, but at least influential) has stated that companies can still test and fire medical marijuana users for violating their standards and practices as well as federal law. Legal outside of work doesn't cut it as an argument legally.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  10. #70
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    which makes perfect sense if the company is being honest about why they're testing for marijuana use (i.e. workplace/customer safety)

  11. #71
    old school nosurprises12's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Could that really be used as a precedent though, considering the regulations/laws concerning possessing and purchasing marijuana "legally" in California are rather different than those which just passed? I can understand a place choosing not to accept the prescriptions as a legal reason to have it on you (Coachella anyone?), but if marijuana is just as legal as alcohol isn't there not much to be done about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by roberto73 View Post
    I'd contribute to this discussion but I'm still busy reminiscing about the halcyon days of punk. You know, the mid-90s.

  12. #72

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    MMJ, at least in CA, isn't a prescription, it's a recommendation by a doctor that you have a condition that would be alleviated with access to marijuana.

  13. #73
    old school nosurprises12's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    That helps make my point a bit stronger, actually - can we compare use based off of what a doctor recommends to use based off of a legal activity which I am allowed to do in my time away from work?
    Quote Originally Posted by roberto73 View Post
    I'd contribute to this discussion but I'm still busy reminiscing about the halcyon days of punk. You know, the mid-90s.

  14. #74

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I don't think so, I don't think a precedent established based on MMJ's current status in California would necessarily apply to weed that was prescribed by a doctor under some hypothetical framework where such things happen.

  15. #75
    old school nosurprises12's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Sorry, I may not be being very clear as I didn't mean to imply a hypothetical framework - I was wondering if you could compare precedent established on Cali. MMJ laws to what is now the law in Colorado and Washington.
    Quote Originally Posted by roberto73 View Post
    I'd contribute to this discussion but I'm still busy reminiscing about the halcyon days of punk. You know, the mid-90s.

  16. #76
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    The legal arguments were (my guess is purposefully) broad enough that they didn't encompass just medical marijuana but seemed to extend to recreational use. The suggestion in the case was that, for all intents and purposes, medical marijuana in California is legalized marijuana.

    It's still not precedent, but I could easily see the argument being extended.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  17. #77

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I think you're right. I guess I'm arguing from the perspective where a doctor can, in the future, prescribe you marijuana like he'd prescribe ambien or whatever. Who knows if that'll ever happen, though, or if it'll just be legalized and people will be able to self-medicate for their ailments.

  18. #78

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by miscorrections View Post
    Well, there have been studies - which is how our DUI cutoff was reached (5 ng/ml active THC) - and you fall well below the active THC limit within 3 hours after smoking. So it shouldn't be a big deal.
    ...http://blogs.westword.com/latestword...imit_sober.php

    THC blood test: Pot critic William Breathes nearly 3 times over proposed limit when sober
    By William Breathes Mon., Apr. 18 2011 at 12:46 PM
    112 Comments
    Categories: Marijuana, Mile Highs and Lows

    *
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    *
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    Thumbnail image for Breathes.Blood.JPG
    Last week, in advance of today's Senate debate over a bill that would set THC driving limits, I had blood drawn (for a second time) to see just how much active THC was in my blood even after a night of sleep and not smoking for fifteen hours.

    As it turns out, I've got a lot. So much that I and thousands of other medical marijuana patients may be risking arrest every time we drive if the measure passes. Even when deemed sober by a doctor, my active THC levels were almost triple the proposed standard of 5 nanograms per milliliter of blood.

    Among the concerns about HB 1261, the THC driving bill first offered by Representative Claire Levy, is the fact that THC can stay in the body days after patients medicate. And my latest test offers proof.

    The lab ran a serum/plasma test which showed my THC count to be at 27. According to Dr. Alan Shackelford, who ordered the blood work and evaluated my results, the number of active THC nanograms per milliliter count is about half of that total, or 13.5 nanograms of THC per milliliter of blood.

    In short: If this bill passes and I was pulled over by police, I would be over the limit by 8.5 nanograms. By that logic, I would be more likely to have mowed down a family in my car on my way to the doctor's office that day than actually arriving there safely. But I didn't -- because I wasn't impaired.

    Don't take my word for it. According to Shackelford, who evaluated me before writing the order to have my blood drawn last Wednesday, I was "in no way incapacitated." According to him, my test results show that it would not be uncommon to see such a high level in other people who use cannabis regularly -- like medical marijuana patients. "Your level was about 13.5 for whole blood... which would have made you incapacitated on a lab value," he said. "They need to vote this sucker down based on that alone."

    Frankly, I didn't even need to go through this effort to prove that. Levy appears to understand that the limit might unintentionally hurt patients like me, since she's shared her concern that 5 nanograms is too low. Yet the bill still moved through to the senate.

    Now, with some actual proof from a Colorado medical marijuana patient that this is the case, could someone curb this bill?

    The Senate Judiciary Committee will discuss HB 1261 today at 1:30 p.m. at the Capitol Building. The hearing will offer the last time public comment will be heard about the proposal.

  19. #79
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    ^ that is why I would not have voted for it if I were in WA. The DUID implications worry me more than buying pot illegally.

  20. #80

    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Its the only way they could get on the ballot. Lawyers loved that provision, along with one ounce, and being 21+. It will be a compromise that is contested heavily in upcoming years. Lawyers just created a lot of revenue for themselves. Im okay with it though, even if they did trick the voting public it still shows that most want the war on drugs to end.
    Last edited by Tubesock Shakur; 11-07-2012 at 04:41 PM.

  21. #81
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Before if it popped up at all during a DUI blood screen it would've been a much bigger issue, so really this provision only helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

  22. #82
    Gummi bear sultan miscorrections's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Plus just don't drive like a doofus. Jeez. If you're not obviously incapacitated and get pulled over for something like a tail light it's not like you're forced into a mandatory blood draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

  23. #83
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    How typical are blood screenings for (alcohol) DUIs, though? Isn't the standard a field test and breathalyzer? From what I've read, WA only gave blood tests to drivers if they were unconscious. So, it seems like this sets a precedence for requiring a blood test any time you are suspected of being under the influence of anything at all, no?

  24. #84
    old school SepaGroove's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Yeah I agree to a certain extent, but a cop would probably know if you were really stoney when they pulled you over. I've heard of saliva THC testing too so I wonder if that would ever be put to use.
    Last edited by SepaGroove; 11-07-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  25. #85
    old school SepaGroove's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by chiapet View Post
    How typical are blood screenings for (alcohol) DUIs, though? Isn't the standard a field test and breathalyzer? From what I've read, WA only gave blood tests to drivers if they were unconscious. So, it seems like this sets a precedence for requiring a blood test any time you are suspected of being under the influence of anything at all, no?
    I wouldn't think they would be common at all.

  26. #86
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Logistically that just wouldn't make sense though. You can detect alcohol more cost-effectively and efficiently with a breathalyzer. Just for efficiency sake I don't see blood tests becoming the norm for alcohol.

    You can always request a blood test though.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  27. #87
    old school SepaGroove's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Logistically that just wouldn't make sense though. You can detect alcohol more cost-effectively and efficiently with a breathalyzer. Just for efficiency sake I don't see blood tests becoming the norm for alcohol.

    You can always request a blood test though.
    My buddy got out of a DUI by doing that. Cops pulled him over and he had a few beer in his system, they eventually tried to breathalyze him and he requested a blood test and had under the limit.

    Unless that fuck was making that up cuz he is a liar.

  28. #88
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by miscorrections View Post
    Plus just don't drive like a doofus. Jeez. If you're not obviously incapacitated and get pulled over for something like a tail light it's not like you're forced into a mandatory blood draw.
    right, while you're at it get an agreement from every other driver on the road to never hit you.

  29. #89
    Coachella Junkie chiapet's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    I'm not suggesting that blood tests would become the norm for alcohol DUI checkpoints, and I'm not complaining really that DUID is an issue with "legalized" marijuana, you can be issued a DUID even when under the influence of legal or prescribed drugs. I was just under the impression that confirmation of DUID with blood tests were really uncommon practice right now, and that I'm uncomfortable with blood tests becoming a more standard practice when there is suspicion of DUID. With blood testing for impairment they essentially have to arrest you and take you into custody to administer the test. To me, that is a lot different than being asked to submit to a field test or breathalyzer while in the field.
    Last edited by chiapet; 11-07-2012 at 05:37 PM.

  30. #90
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: prohibition is over

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubesock Shakur View Post
    I will be finally able to go to my corner store and pick an ounce of weed with my morning coffee. That is huge. Not looking over my shoulder or feel like a criminal is awesome. I don't even smoke that often. It's just a huge step in a fucking stupid idealism of prohibition. The hemp industry of packaging, biofuel, stronger fibers for textiles ect will shape future industry too.

    The old black and white thought process is dying off and it's beautiful.
    I mean I get that, I'm just not as excited. I also live in California, we've had it a while so maybe I'm just jaded. Now if this was about hemp, in my opinion, that would be a cause for celebration.

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