A young'uns guide to purusing extensive artist discographies

[breakjaw]

I got super-excited when I heard Prince was going to do a set of only covers of Neutral Milk Hotel,My Bloody Valentine,and Boards Of Canada songs.

[greghead]

There is no way to win, lol.

Seriously, dude, this is some exciting shit. Prince is an amazingly talented artist, he always surrounds himself with the best artists, the Super Bowl performance 2 years ago was more epic than anything before or ever after (poor Tom Petty), and you think I'm going to be a jaded asshole and say that his addition is more harmful to the festival than good JUST because I'm clueless about his music?

What the fuck do you want? Unwarranted, ignorant dismissal, or believing the hype. It's Prince, he's just going to become more amazing as I discover his music.
Can't catch a goddamn break.

If you aren't familiar with his music, why are you all over the board posting about how awesome he is? I know it's fun to be in the cool crowd, but maybe you should spend more time listening to his albums than posting about how he is going to melt your brain or shred your face or whatever it is you people say to describe a good set.

[bmack86]

I was in the cool crowd once. It was the best two hours of my life.

[bballarl]

You are still in the cool crowd Bryan. Even without your mustache.

[PassiveTheory]

If you aren't familiar with his music, why are you all over the board posting about how awesome he is? I know it's fun to be in the cool crowd, but maybe you should spend more time listening to his albums than posting about how he is going to melt your brain or shred your face or whatever it is you people say to describe a good set.

I haven't once posted that Prince is going to melt my brain or shred my face... I'm just really excited because the guy is KNOWN for putting on fantastic fucking live shows. If his show is even a SLIVER of a FRACTION of the Super Bowl performance a few years back, then I will be more than satisfied, especially because I will have the opportunity to witness it live.

And about being in the cool crowd... Please. I piss on the White Stripes and Kanye West all the time. And used to about Radiohead. Cool crowd, fuck that shit.

[PassiveTheory]

So?

The ignorance is there; that's the basic starting point. You're not going to hide ignorance by becoming an instant fanboy unless you're surrounded by people who are just as ignorant (so that won't work around here.)

You're ignorant. That's OK. It's just a thing. What we're talking about is what to do about that. And, more importantly, what to not do.

What people are attacking is not ignorance but willful ignorance and/or willful disregarding of ignorance. What is being attacked is self-denial about ignorance; that is acting in a forceful, brash and (worse) condescending matter from ignorance.

You don't have to immediately pick between swearing allegiance to Prince and hating him and his fans. You can be happy about his addition, have fun playing with Prince avatars, look into hearing more of his music... but don't go pretending to know what the fuck you're talking about when you don't.

You're talking about going in and listening to his music... that's exactly the response one should have to ignorance; working to change from the state of ignorance.

It's OK to say "I am not familiar with Prince but this opportunity to see him presents a great motivation for me to listen to more. What albums might you recommend?" or "I don't know" or, even better, just say nothing.

I'm happy about Prince's addition, and what I initially said was supposed to be somewhat comedic, but that was clearly missed.

So, now that that's cleared up, I ask you:

What albums would you all recommend to listen to? Is there a greatest hits that's sufficient?

[bballarl]

There is another thread about this, but:

1999

Purple Rain

Around the World in a Day

Sign O' the Times

[PassiveTheory]

Oh Adam, you'll be pleased to hear I got around to getting a Spaceman 3 album today... the (or one of the) live one.

[bballarl]

I'm Andrew. Nice to meet you

And which one?

[PassiveTheory]

I mix up everybody's name... Sorry.

Performance: Live at the Melkweg 6/2/88

[bballarl]

That is a good one.

[PassiveTheory]

Yeah, now that I've completed my Spiritualized collection, I want to get on owning all of Spacemen 3.

[bballarl]

They have a lot of stuff. But it is worth seeking out.

[bmack86]

I was listening to Playing With Fire yesterday, and that album is golden.

And, check out Dirty Mind by Prince. Its my fave of his.

[SoulDischarge]

Boredoms:

Soul Discharge-They make good on the interesting noises from Onanie. The playful, lets-do-whatever-the-fuck-we-can-to-make-a-racket atmosphere is still here, but the songs are more palatable this time around. It's still willfully abrasive, and not for the faint of heart. Grade:B

I only get a B???? Rip. Off.

[hawkingvsreeve]

I'll do Smashing Pumpkins. Later today, though.

Ok. It's been almost a month. I'm taking this one from ya.

[bballarl]

Yeah I forgot I said I would do that. I'll chime in after you do it.

[hawkingvsreeve]

You'll chime in to agree with me.

[bballarl]

Possibly.

[hawkingvsreeve]

The Smashing Pumpkins

A (selected) discography in chronological order:




Gish (1991)

An extremely stong debut record, Gish sets the tone for a lot of what makes up the Smashing Pumpkins sound, and isn't a bad place to start if you are looking to get into the band. Guitar / riff heavy rock is pretty much the name of the game here, with a couple of acoustic tunes thrown in for good measure. Album highlights are "I Am One," "Bury Me" and "Tristessa." A lot of their records sound dated if you go back and listen to them now, so I think it is a bit harder to get into them now if you weren't into them or this kind of music while they were at the apex of their career, but compared to a lot of other music that came out in the 90s, the late 90s especially, I think the Pumpkins hold up well. Gish is no exception, even though it came out a lot earlier in the decade.

8/10




Lull (1991)

Lull is an EP with a few tracks that didn't make it onto Gish, one of which appears later on Pisces Iscariot. As an EP it's pretty good, but there really isn't a need to seek it out unless you are a big fan.

7/10




Siamese Dream (1993)

Although this isn't my favorite Pumpkins record, I would start new listeners with this one. It's the album that really broke this band into the mainstream rock scene of the 90's and it's got a lot of the obvious hits ("Today," "Cherub Rock" and "Disarm"), but also some really great tracks that don't really get a lot of play. "Mayonaise" and "Sweet Sweet" are two of my favorite tracks by the band, and "Silverfuck" showcases what the Pumpkins do best. Huge fucking rock songs. There are plenty of other tracks that I'm not mentioning here that are great, and really the album is good from start to finish. If you haven't heard the band or just know them casually and want a place to start, this is it.

9/10




Pisces Iscariot (1994)

This is a collection of B-Sides and other unreleased material from the Gish / Siamese Dream time period. As such, there are some pretty strong tracks on here, most notably "Frail and Bedazzled," "Whir" and "Hello Kitty Kat." "Pissant" is pretty badass as well. I should mention their cover of the Fleetwood Mac song "Landslide" being that it was a big single for the Pumpkins, but truth be told, I never thought it was that great and always skip it if I am listening to the album. Pisces Iscariot isn't as easy to listen to anyway and probably gets the least amount of rotations from me. The reason for this is that it feels very uneven (which is to be expected being that it's more of a compilation disc rather than an actual record) and some of the songs are just kind of weak. There is material here worth checking out though. Come back to it after Adore. I will list the order I would recommend listening to the albums in below.

6/10




Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995)

This is the Pumpkins finest work. At least, to me. A lot of people will contend that Siamese Dream is the strongest record they have released and that it is unfair to compare Mellon Collie to it being that Mellon Collie is two discs. Right. Well, these people are cry baby pussies. Siamese Dream is a fantastic record. Absolutely great. But as far as touching the scope and depth that this record has, it falls short. I must be fair and say that I am a bit biased, being that this is the record that got me into the band initially. I didn't know much of the earlier work other than the song "Today," and I remember being at home watching MTV when the video for "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" came on, and just being like: "Fuck." Then they released "Tonight, Tonight" and I finally realized I was missing out on something. I ended up having to buy a second copy of the album because my first one got beat up from listening to it over and over and over. Besides the 5 singles ("Bullet With Butterfly Wings," "1979," "Zero," "Tonight, Tonight" and "Thirty-Three"), Mellon Collie really shows just how varied the Pumpkins' (read: Billy's) songwriting was. I wouldn't say that I prefer one disc over the other, but they do differ in feel, with the first disc being a bit more driving and the second containing more of the calmer tracks, especially for the close of the album. As far as singles go, I think that even with the popularity of "Bullet..." and the recognizability of "1979," "Thirty-Three" is the strongest of the group, even if it doesn't immediately fall into the Pumpkins' guitar arena-rock paradigm. In another 10 or 15 years though, I think it will have been the single to age the most gracefully. Other album highlights (I really do recommend the entire album here though) include "Muzzle," "Porcelina of the Vast Oceans," "Where Boys Fear To Tread" (Fun fact: This song contains a sample of the rocket launcher from the PC game "Doom") and "Thru the Eyes of Ruby." The only thing I am not terribly crazy about, and that I haven't really mentioned vis a vis their other records is production. As much as I love this album, I feel like it is very muddy and a lot is lost due to that. The songs are still ace though.

10/10




The Aeroplane Flies High (1996)

Originally 57 songs were recorded for Mellon Collie, with only 28 making it to the album. The rest were released as a 5 disc box set, known as The Aeroplane Flies High. Each disc is a single from Mellon Collie, with tracks that loosely accompany them. There is a lot of material to listen to here, so I wont really go too in depth, but some obvious highlights that appear on later releases include "Set the Ray to Jerry," (Probably my favorite song by the band) "Aeroplane Flies High (Turns Left, Looks Right)," "God," "Ugly" and "My Blue Heaven." Because this is more of a collectors item for fans I would say to come back to this at a later time, after sampling the albums.

8/10




Adore (1998)

So a lot of shit happened on the Mellon Collie tour. A touring keyboardist died, Jimmy ODed and was later kicked out of the band, Billy's mom died and Billy got a divorce. Fuck. With Jimmy out of the band, the Pumpkins changed up their sound quite a bit, going a more electronic / acoustic route, and released Adore. A lot of long time fans were confused with Adore, being that it was such a radical sonic change for the band, and wrote it and the subsequent album (Machina/ The Machines Of God) off saying that the band had died or sucked, etc. etc. Well. That is wrong. Adore is an excellent album. It's just different. Like with Mellon Collie, I think that the scope of the songwriting abilities are showcased nicely here, especially with tracks like "Tear" and "Pug," and also on the singles "Ava Adore" and "Perfect." Jimmy's drumming is definitely missed here, but I really don't hear him playing on these songs. It just wouldn't fit I don't think, and even though some fans (and even Billy) will try to down play Adore, it has songs that still get played on tour.

9/10




Machina / The Machines of God (2000)

If Adore tested the patience of the fans wanting the Pumpkins' big arena rock sound, Machina was the nail in the coffin to losing them as fans. A lot of fans felt this album was over produced and that it was just too pop sounding. While the record definitely leans toward being more pop oriented, I really like the production. Besides Adore, this is the only record that doesn't sound like it's being dragged through the mud. I feel like song quality is pretty high as well, even if they aren't what you would come to expect from the band. The album as a whole feels a bit more focused, probably because it is very concept heavy, along with Machina II. The two albums were originally intended to be packaged as a double album like Mellon Collie, but after poor sales from Adore, Virgin was reluctant to release the two together. As it turned out, Machina was the Pumpkins' worst selling album. But whatever. It's good, give it a listen. Just be sure to remember the context of where the band was at both musically and personally during this time period. I must be honest though and say that I am a huge Pumpkins apologist and will defend pretty much everything they have put out, with the exception of Zeitgeist and American Gothic. Also I should note that while Jimmy returned to the band for Machina, D'arcy left during the recording of the album.

7/10




Machina II / The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music (2000)

Not widely known because it was never officially released, or printed rather, Machina II is the companion piece to Machina / The Machines of God. 25 copies were pressed to vinyl and handed out to friends as well as band members. Besides the album, there are 3 discs of B Sides from the recording sessions. As far as the record goes, it's pretty great. The first half is a sort of return to form, as the songs have a lo-fi feel to them as well as being pretty straight forward, driving rock songs. The second half sort of progresses along with their continually evolving sound over the course of their career. I think that is why I like this record quite a bit. It's like a sonic Smashing Pumpkins chronology with all new songs. Part of the reason for the lo-fi aesthetics of the first half is due to the the fact that the version that was released on the internet (which you can download along with the B Sides for free here) is pulled from the vinyl, which was hand cut. Highlights from the record include "Dross," "Cash Car Star" and the would have been single "Let Me Give the World To You."

8/10




Rotten Apples: The Smashing Pumpkins Greatest Hits (2001)

A collection of all of their singles. Well most of them anyway. If you are looking for a quick road to the hits, this is it.

N/A




Judas 0 (2001)

Judas 0 came packaged with the limited edition of Rotten Apples, and is a disc of B-Sides and other unreleased material from Mellon Collie through Machina II. It is sort of the Pisces Iscariot of the later part of their career, and like Pisces it can be a little uneven, but generally it is still good.

7/10




Earphoria (2002)

This is the soundtrack to Vieuphoria, which was released in 1994. It's mainly a collection of live performances from the Gish / Siamese Dream years of their career. It's not bad, but like Judas 0 or The Aeroplane Flies High, usually only big fans of the band get anything out of it.

6/10




Zeigeist (2007)

Meh. This record has some good tracks, but they are few and far between. I only bought this because I am a fan and it was 9.99. Essentialy the Pumpkins were always Billy and Jimmy, but I feel like this record is just different and doesn't feel like a proper Pumpkins album, even though it is the two of them doing everything. Even with the attempts at going back to their roots ("United States" feels like a modern day attempt at "Silverfuck"), it just fails to completely work. Also, production on this album is off. I'm not trying to say that I want them to make the same record over and over and that everything should sound the same, but Zeitgeist (to me) feels like more of a departure from their old sound than Adore was. Maybe it's just me.

5/10




American Gothic (2008)

A follow up EP to Zeitgeist. Sucks.

2/10



Odds and Ends:

Both from 1997:

The track "Eye" was released on the Lost Highway soundtrack.
The track "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" was released on the Batman and Robin soundtrack.



But Where Do I Start?

Siamese Dream
Gish
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Adore
Pisces Iscariot
Machina
Machina II
Zeitgeist

Or, if you would like to cheat, pick up Rotten Apples and call it a day.

[PassiveTheory]

Again, like with Death Cab, I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit, Brandon.

I'm not going to get into an argument about whether Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie is better, but I still don't see how you can deny Siamese Dream a 10.

[bballarl]

I am still not a huge Adore fan. I like the big guitars version of the Pumpkins. I thought American Gothic was unspectacular but not terrible...at least worthy of a 5. And Zeitgeist is not great by any stretch, but it rocks reasonably hard and reminded me of why I love the Pumpkins. I would give it a 6 or so.

[bballarl]

Also, I agree with the criticism of Machina: it is waaay overproduced. Zeitgeist and American Gothic suffer from the same problem, although I dig those records a little more than Brandon.

[PassiveTheory]

I'm with Andrew concerning Zeitgeist. Also, "That's The Way My Love Is" and "Doomsday Clock" are two stellar Pumpkins songs...

As for Adore... It does get shat on unnecessarily, so I think your score for it is fair, but I would have given it a 7.5. Jimmy's drums are more missed on that record, in my mind.

[TomAz]

I have never heard an entire SP record.

[hawkingvsreeve]

Again, like with Death Cab, I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit, Brandon.

I'm not going to get into an argument about whether Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie is better, but I still don't see how you can deny Siamese Dream a 10.

Spaceboy.

[hawkingvsreeve]

I'm with Andrew concerning Zeitgeist. Also, "That's The Way My Love Is" and "Doomsday Clock" are two stellar Pumpkins songs...

They are good, but far from stellar. Vocal performance is pretty weak on Doomsday Clock. Don't let the big guitars fool you, Lee.

[menikmati]

Good pumpkins round up Brandon and I pretty much agree with you on everything up until Adore. Has anyone done Nirvana yet? I haven't paid a lot of attention to this thread at all.

[PassiveTheory]

You really think the vocal delivery on Doomsday Clock is poor?... I'll admit that the transition vocals aren't fierce and could use a Billy scream or two, but I kinda like how they segue into the guitar craziness.

Then again, you also said don't let the guitars fool me. I dunno, I was in a shitty place this summer and I'd blast that song a lot, so it resonates more with me right now. Probably won't in a while (not like the stuff off of MCatIS or Siamese Dream), but I can definitely see myself placing it alongside Adore.

I need to listen to Gish again, but man I do not remember it being that good...

Finally, I'll admit that Spaceboy is probably the weakest song on the record since I have NO FUCKING CLUE what the fuck the song's about... I still adore the instrumentation on that song... 9.5, maybe?

[hawkingvsreeve]

Part of me scoring it a 9 is also to further illustrate how good I think Mellon Collie is. It nothing against Siamese Dream. Mellon Collie is just better.