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Thread: The 2012 MLB Thread

  1. #961
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    I think the pro-Trout hypothetical is more along the lines of "if the front office hadn't wasted the first six weeks of the season spending good money after bad with Wells and Abreu, and started the kid in the bigs . . . "
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
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    It's hard to argue with that.

  2. #962
    Member ManImCool's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    MVPosey
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  3. #963
    old school HotHamWater's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Here's a weird thought, both Trout and Cabrera had MVP seasons and both deserved the award. But only one got it, so congrats to Cabrera.

  4. #964
    Member Newro7ic's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HotHamWater View Post
    Here's a weird thought, both Trout and Cabrera had MVP seasons and both deserved the award. But only one got it, so congrats to Cabrera.
    I'm a huge Trout fan, but this is what it is. The guy who makes it to the World Series is going to have the upper hand in voting, and doesn't make either player less deserving.
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  5. #965
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    The Angels finished in 3rd place in the AL West. Without Trout, they would have finished in 3rd place in the AL West. How could he possibly be 'most valuable'?
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  6. #966
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    6-14, 83-59. This isn't that difficult to figure out.

    We also have this amazing wizard-age stat called Wins Above Replacement that can help sort this thing out.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  7. #967
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Baseball is being taken over by guys with pocket protectors. Fuck them.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  8. #968
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    haha, but do you really believe that Cabrera's season was "more valuable" than Trout's because his team finished seventh in the American League and made the playoffs (because it had the good fortune of playing in a poor division), where Trout's team finished sixth in the American League and didn't make the playoffs (because it had the bad fortune of playing in a quality division)? It's such an unpersuasive argument to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  9. #969
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    Baseball is being taken over by guys with pocket protectors. Fuck them.
    Amen

  10. #970
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    I agree. A MVP should be a player who truly changed the team dynamic, a leader in stats and on the field. Not just some dude with numbers.
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  11. #971
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    But that's part of my argument, if you want to award the MVP on a "narrative" argument, how is the Trout-led turnaround of LAA as a rookie phenom not a credible story about his value? In this case, we don't need a hypothetical about "what would the team's season have looked like without the player?," we know from the record.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  12. #972
    old school theklein25's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    In the end people will remember that Miguel Cabrera got the triple crown, the first one in 45 years. People overlook the fact that Trout dropped off hard in September. Sometimes it's a close race and not everyone will agree, but whoever of them won the MVP certainly deserved it.

  13. #973
    Coachella Junkie heart cooks brain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Miroir Noir View Post
    haha, but do you really believe that Cabrera's season was "more valuable" than Trout's because his team finished seventh in the American League and made the playoffs (because it had the good fortune of playing in a poor division), where Trout's team finished sixth in the American League and didn't make the playoffs (because it had the bad fortune of playing in a quality division)? It's such an unpersuasive argument to make.
    actually, i believe that the tigers record vs non-divisional opponents was better than in-division.
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  14. #974
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    That may be the case, but I wasn't pointing out the divisional aspect just to argue that the Tigers beat up on the Royals, Indians, and Twins, but more to point out that they ultimately made the playoffs because they had the best record among those poor teams, and certainly not because they finished better than Trout's team did.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  15. #975
    old school stuporfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Melky Cabrera Will Sign With the Blue Jays
    Melky Cabrera will sign with the Toronto Blue Jays, according to a report from ESPNDeportes.com. According to the report, Cabrera will sign a two-year, $16 million contract with the Canadian club.

    Cabrera will come to Toronto after a 2012 season with the San Francisco Giants that was, to say the least, up-and-down. Cabrera hit extremely well in the first half of the season – well enough to earn his first All-Star nod. Cabrera won the All-Star game MVP award, but that would be his last honor of the season. Cabrera was suspended for 50 games by MLB a month after the All-Star break after testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs.

    Cabrera, who at that point was a shoe-in for the NL batting title, requested that he be made ineligible to win the award. Cabrera’s suspension ran out in the Giants’ run to the 2012 World Series title, but he did not play a part in the postseason.
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    well hello my fancy pants.

  16. #976
    Chest Rockwell Gribbz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Honestly, I don't think the advanced saber metrics people will ever go back to the old way of thinking... same goes with the traditionalists. C'est la vie.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    I agree. A MVP should be a player who truly changed the team dynamic, a leader in stats and on the field. Not just some dude with numbers.
    Stick that in your pocket protector and smoke it.

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  17. #977
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gribbz View Post
    Stick that in your pocket protector and smoke it.
    ha, I heard Mike & Mike this morning too.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  18. #978
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    ha, I heard Mike & Mike this morning too.
    Hahaha. I also chuckled when that one journalist from the Baseball Writers Association called Cabrera winning "embarrassing."

    Boris - 7/29 - The Mohawk
    NIN/Soundgarden/ - 8/14 - Austin 360
    Woods - 8/20 - Holy Mountain
    Jamie xx - 8/27 - The Mohawk
    Little Dragon - 8/31 - Moody Theater
    Ty Segall - 9/5 - The Mohawk
    Seth Troxler - 9/5 - Vulcan Gas Company
    Black Lips/King Khan & BBQ Show - 9/12 - J. Lorraine Ghost Town

  19. #979
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Keith Law's Wikipedia page has been updated:

    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  20. #980
    old school stuporfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    rediculous
    Quote Originally Posted by garspaceman View Post
    well hello my fancy pants.

  21. #981
    Coachella Junkie dorkfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by stuporfly View Post
    Kinda hoped that we would give him another chance, but ignoring the fact that there was no way we would resign him--there's no way we would have given him $8M a season.
    *based upon tedious fact checking.

  22. #982
    old school stuporfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    (Sh)it happened

    MIAMI -- The Miami Marlins' latest payroll purge received final approval Monday from the commissioner's office, and as the team's top baseball executive began to discuss the deal during a conference call, a bad connection generated waves of reverberating noise that filled the phone line.

    Nearly a week after the Marlins swung their widely ridiculed trade with Toronto, negative feedback keeps coming.

    Commissioner Bud Selig approved the blockbuster deal, however, even though it made Marlins fans irate and made the team a nationwide punch line. The trade sends All-Star shortstop Jose Reyes to the Blue Jays along with pitchers Mark Buehrle and Josh Johnson, catcher John Buck and outfielder Emilio Bonifacio for seven players, none of whom has a big-money contract.

    Miami received infielders Yunel Escobar and Adeiny Hechavarria, pitchers Henderson Alvarez, Anthony DeSclafani and Justin Nicolino, catcher Jeff Mathis and outfielder Jake Marisnick. By swinging the deal only months after the Marlins moved into a new stadium built with taxpayer money, they pared from their books $154 million in payroll, which does not account for cash they agreed to send the Blue Jays.

    Marlins president of baseball operations Larry Beinfest said he understood why fans were mad, and confirmed the trade was necessary because owner Jeffrey Loria wanted to pare payroll. Beinfest also conceded the deal will make it harder for the team to recruit free agents in the future.

    But Selig decided not to block it.

    "This transaction, involving established major leaguers and highly regarded young players and prospects, represents the exercise of plausible baseball judgment on the part of both clubs (and) does not violate any express rule of Major League Baseball and does not otherwise warrant the exercise of any of my powers to prevent its completion," Selig said in a statement. "It is, of course, up to the clubs involved to make the case to their respective fans that this transaction makes sense and enhances the competitive position of each, now or in the future."

    The players traded by the Marlins have combined guaranteed salaries of $163.75 million through 2018, including $96 million due Reyes.

    "I understand the pause the fans have with the instability in our roster at a time when we were hoping to be very stable in the new stadium," Beinfest said. "It's not a lot of fun."

    By contrast, the trade stamps the Blue Jays as contenders in the AL East. They haven't reached the playoffs since winning their second consecutive World Series in 1993.

    Miami also finalized a deal with outfielder Juan Pierre, who agreed to a $1.6 million, one-year contract. That leaves the Marlins with an estimated opening-day payroll of $36 million for active players, which would be their lowest since 2008. In the latest figures, Oakland had the lowest payroll in the majors this year at $59.5 million.

    While Beinfest said the Marlins acquired championship-caliber talent, fans believe owner Jeffrey Loria's goal was to increase his profits in the new ballpark rather than put increased revenue into the roster.

    "We did receive a payroll range from ownership that we needed to achieve," Beinfest said. "With this transaction, we have achieved that payroll range."

    The Marlins flopped as big spenders. They began the year with a franchise-record payroll of $112 million, then went 69-93, their worst record since 1999.

    After sinking to last place by midseason, the Marlins traded former NL batting champion Hanley Ramirez, second baseman Omar Infante, right-hander Anibal Sanchez and closer Heath Bell. Reyes, Buehrle and Bell signed multiyear deals as newcomers a year ago during an unprecedented Marlins spending spree, and Beinfest acknowledged other free agents might be now reluctant to sign with Miami.

    "It'll be a factor," he said. "I don't think we're happy about this at all. I understand there may be some disdain in the marketplace. We won't know until we get into those negotiations with free agents. It's definitely not great for the club, and we're going to have to deal with it."

    Miami's biggest remaining star, slugger Giancarlo Stanton, has been among those expressing anger about the trade. Beinfest said he hadn't talked with Stanton about the deal.

    "I know this is an emotional time," Beinfest said. "I'm sure it has been tough for him. Our feeling was to maybe let the dust settle a little bit and then talk to Giancarlo. I hear the frustration. It's not unexpected. This has been a tough go, but we think it's best for us moving forward."

    Players' union head Michael Weiner withheld comment, saying he was awaiting more input from Major League Baseball.

    In January 2009, the union reached an agreement with MLB and the Marlins covering 2010-12 which Weiner said was a "response to our concerns that revenue sharing proceeds have not been used as required. As part of the deal, Weiner said the team planned to "use such proceeds to increase player payroll annually as they move toward the opening of their new ballpark."

    Selig said he was sensitive to how Marlins fans reacted to the trade.

    "Baseball is a social institution with important social responsibilities, and I fully understand that the Miami community has done its part to put the Marlins into a position to succeed with beautiful new Marlins Park," Selig said. "Going forward, I will continue to monitor this situation with the expectation that the Marlins will take into account the sentiments of their fans, who deserve the best efforts and considered judgment of their club. I have received assurances from the ownership of the Marlins that they share these beliefs and are fully committed to build a long-term winning team that their fans can be proud of."
    Quote Originally Posted by garspaceman View Post
    well hello my fancy pants.

  23. #983
    Coachella Junkie paulb's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Fuck yes. Why did it take so long anyways? I look forward to seeing what the Blue Jays bring next year.
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  24. #984
    Member EastLos01's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by paulb View Post
    Fuck yes. Why did it take so long anyways? I look forward to seeing what the Blue Jays bring next year.
    Although I'm a Dodger fan, I can't wait to see how Ricky Romero Bounces back. Hoping he's finally healthy enough to fully bring it.
    You know, but that's valid because if we are all gonna die anyway shouldn't we be enjoying ourselves now? You know, I'd like to quit thinking of the present, like right now, as some minor insignificant preamble to something else.

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  25. #985
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    The 2013 Hall of Fame Ballot is out:

    Sandy Alomar Jr. 1988-2007 1st
    Jeff Bagwell 1991-2005 3rd
    Craig Biggio 1988-2007 1st
    Barry Bonds 1986-2007 1st
    Jeff Cirillo 1994-2007 1st
    Royce Clayton 1991-2007 1st
    Roger Clemens 1984-2007 1st
    Jeff Conine 1990, 1992-2007 1st
    Steve Finley 1989-2007 1st
    Julio Franco 1982-94, 1996-97, 1999, 2001-07 1st
    Shawn Green 1993-2007 1st
    Roberto Hernandez 1991-2007 1st
    Ryan Klesko 1992-2007 1st
    Kenny Lofton 1991-2007 1st
    Edgar Martinez 1987-2004 4th
    Don Mattingly 1982-95 13th
    Fred McGriff 1986-2004 4th
    Mark McGwire 1986-2001 7th
    Jose Mesa 1987, 1990-2007 1st
    Jack Morris 1977-94 14th
    Dale Murphy 1976-93 15th
    Rafael Palmeiro 1986-2005 3rd
    Mike Piazza 1992-2007 1st
    Tim Raines 1979-2002 6th
    Reggie Sanders 1991-2007 1st
    Curt Schilling 1988-2007 1st
    Aaron Sele 1993-2007 1st
    Lee Smith 1980-97 11th
    Sammy Sosa 1988-2005, 2007 1st
    Mike Stanton 1989-2007 1st
    Alan Trammell 1977-96 12th
    Larry Walker 1989-2005 3rd
    Todd Walker 1996-2007 1st
    David Wells 1987-2007 1st
    Rondell White 1996-2007 1st
    Bernie Williams 1991-2006 2nd
    Woody Williams 1993-2007 1st
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  26. #986
    old school HotHamWater's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    I expect Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio, and maybe Tim Raines, Curt Schilling and Jack Morris to get in.

  27. #987
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Biggio and Piazza are clear no-brainers. Those guys put up exceptional numbers for their positions and were iconic players for their era. Tim Raines absolutely should be in, but he'd have to jump over Morris, Bagwell, and Lee Smith relative to the 2012 voting, as well as all of the new guys.

    I would vote for:

    Bagwell
    Biggio
    Bonds
    Clemens
    McGwire
    Piazza
    Raines

    Morris and Schilling are closer calls for me -- and strikingly similar players -- but I'd probably put both in on the strength of playoff heroics. I maintain that Edgar Martinez is the best pure hitter that I've ever seen in my life; he started his career late and played DH, both real problems. He's a tough call for me. So are the '80s guys -- Trammell, Murphy, Mattingly -- not sure if we are undervaluing them or overvaluing them today in light of the steroids era.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  28. #988
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    I vote Pete Rose
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  29. #989
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    When I was a waiter Pete Rose came in and I got wait on him.He likes tequila.
    Translation


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  30. #990
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    Default Re: The 2012 MLB Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

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