ThatGirl's Job Search-Resume Questions /Help Thread

[PlayaDelWes]

In addition use language that speaks to the position you are leaving in the third person. "The role could benefit by..."

[Robin]

I would say that making the choice to do this depends on whether you think they are seeking your feedback. I wouldn't suggest doing this unless they ask you to divulge your thoughts, but if you feel you must be heard, tread carefully.

I would never recommend doing this, unless you truly want something to be said, and it sounds like she wants to say something.

But definitely tread carefully. Not sure how well documentation is at your company, Loca, but I know that every work-related meeting I have, I document and file it. I noticed that smaller companies are more susceptible to releasing more information about a former employee than larger corporations. If you feel that having this meeting might hinder your ability to obtain future employment, then I would strongly advise against it.

[locachica73]

Ok, thanks for the input. I probably won't say anything, but I also feel a little bad for whoever they find to take my place. I want to put a big warning sign on the door.

[kitt kat]

Not a job search question, but it is job related...

So I've been at this job for almost 2 years. That is a long time. I got a new title about a year and a half in, but not a raise. I work for a major company with offices across the US.

I'm also "technically" not a "real employee" of this company — I'm still a "contract worker," which means I work 40 hours a week for no benefits and I am paid by the hour; I get no paid time off, no 401K and no business cards even! They do this with a lot of our copy editors and photo editors who work 20 hours a week and the graveyard shifts — but I'm here normal hours and I have a hell of a lot more responsibility than the average contract worker. I'm basically editorial's main line into the sales department and tell the sales people what we, as the editorial dept, are OK with pushing and why/why not. Blah blah blah.

Anyway...I need more money. I did a little research, and someone with my qualifications and experience should be making anywhere from $56k-$67k. I wish I was making that much!! I'm not even close to that low figure. I make sub-entry level pay, basically. I could EASILY leave for another job that pays over double what I make here; I just like working here because they're understandable with school and allow me to come in earlier/stay later for my one class that falls during work hours.

So "real employees" get a yearly review; I, as a contract employee, do not. These reviews are where people ask for raises. I would like a raise. I emailed my boss asking if I could get a review anyway, but it was after he left today.

Basically wondering:

1. Do I even have any clout here in asking for a raise? I've never been given a raise here.
2. Should I ask to be made a "Real employee" or just for the raise? I would like to start a 401k soon because I am bad at saving $$ on my own.
3. How should I go about asking for a raise?
5. What is a realistic raise for someone who is paid hourly?

EDIT: A year from now, I will have an MA in the field I am working in.

[Robin]

Not a job search question, but it is job related...

So I've been at this job for almost 2 years. That is a long time. I got a new title about a year and a half in, but not a raise. I work for a major company with offices across the US.

I'm also "technically" not a "real employee" of this company — I'm still a "contract worker," which means I work 40 hours a week for no benefits and I am paid by the hour; I get no paid time off, no 401K and no business cards even! They do this with a lot of our copy editors and photo editors who work 20 hours a week and the graveyard shifts — but I'm here normal hours and I have a hell of a lot more responsibility than the average contract worker. I'm basically editorial's main line into the sales department and tell the sales people what we, as the editorial dept, are OK with pushing and why/why not. Blah blah blah.

Anyway...I need more money. I did a little research, and someone with my qualifications and experience should be making anywhere from $56k-$67k. I wish I was making that much!! I'm not even close to that low figure. I make sub-entry level pay, basically. I could EASILY leave for another job that pays over double what I make here; I just like working here because they're understandable with school and allow me to come in earlier/stay later for my one class that falls during work hours.

So "real employees" get a yearly review; I, as a contract employee, do not. These reviews are where people ask for raises. I would like a raise. I emailed my boss asking if I could get a review anyway, but it was after he left today.

Basically wondering:

1. Do I even have any clout here in asking for a raise? I've never been given a raise here.
2. Should I ask to be made a "Real employee" or just for the raise? I would like to start a 401k soon because I am bad at saving $$ on my own.
3. How should I go about asking for a raise?
5. What is a realistic raise for someone who is paid hourly?

EDIT: A year from now, I will have an MA in the field I am working in.

One of the biggest reasons I see with them keeping you as contract and not a regular employee is that you are in school. They may think you are going to leave once you graduate. Keep in mind that it may be hard to find another job that will be flexible with your school hours.

In regards to your concerns:
1. You have every right to ask for more money if you feel it is warranted. Just make sure you are prepared to list your current job functions and reasonable explanations as to why you're worth more than what you're making.
2. Asking to be a regular employee can be a little sticky since you need flexible hours. Are part time employees eligible for 401K?
3. Set up a meeting. Asking your boss for a review is a good starting point. If your review comes back positive, then follow #1. BE CONFIDENT.
4. Where's #4?
5. Check the market for your area. Don't overshoot though. A lot of companies usually only give 2-5% raises around review time.

[Courtney]

One of the biggest reasons I see with them keeping you as contract and not a regular employee is that you are in school. They may think you are going to leave once you graduate.

...Or they are just being cheap and don't want to pay her insurance and stuff if they don't have to? I see that happen a lot, especially in the publishing industry. A lot of magazines I write for have laid off full-time writers and just taken more pieces from freelancers. It's kind of shitty, but they do it.

[Robin]

...Or they are just being cheap and don't want to pay her insurance and stuff if they don't have to? I see that happen a lot, especially in the publishing industry. A lot of magazines I write for have laid off full-time writers and just taken more pieces from freelancers. It's kind of shitty, but they do it.

That too. At my last job, we would hire a bunch of contractors. We would make them full time if they asked, though because we didn't want to lose them. But that was for medical device, so we needed their knowledge of our product instead of trying to find someone new.

[kitt kat]

I dunno where #4 went, but there was one and I forgot it.

I am only in school part time, and have no summer classes right now. I only have one class in the fall and it is an evening class, so it will fall outside of work hours. Basically, since school ended in early May, I am here M-F, 10-7. Before that, I would come in a little later on Fridays and stay later for my morning class.

I don't work in what you would consider a traditional 9-5 office; there are people here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So, the whole regular employee/flexible hours thing isn't really an issue. One of our higher ups works Tues-Saturday, one of our main copy chiefs comes in starting at 5pm...

I dunno what 5% would work out to hourly, though. If my salary now is grossly low compared to the same position at other companies, can't I ask to be brought up more to that level? I would like to make $50k, which is even underneath what I should be making.

EDIT: Yeah, I think the contractor is more for the part timers; I was originally supposed to be 25/hrs a week when I was first hird, but then was brought up to 40/hrs a week in my first month because they realized I was worth keeping around.

If I left, they'd be screwed. Since the boss who hired me left about a year ago, I am the only person in this office who knows how do to some pretty important stuff here. Also, I am the only one who knows HTML.

[Robin]

Ummm.... take your hourly rate and multiply it by 1.05. That should equal a 5% raise. If you're wondering what your annual salary is, then take your hourly rate and multiply it by 2080.

Please refer to my answer for #1. Write it down and bring it to your boss' attention.

You can ask to be brought up to any level you want, but it might not be a smart move if that level is $20K more than what you're making now. Unfortunately, I do not know your industry nor your job duties, so I can't fully give you my advice on what is acceptable. Maybe something reasonable would be $3-5/hour? That equates to approx $6K - 10k per year.

[Robin]

Just know that there is the chance for denial, especially if the company is cheap.

[kitt kat]

Will definitely do #1. Thanks!

[ThatGirl]

Wow thanks for the back up folks. I only have my phone on me now and responding to Katt's query is not realistic right at the moment. But I will weigh in when I get home !!

[PlayaDelWes]

Kat, first off you are awesome. You’re attractive, talented, and may I suggest the confidence and control you seem to be taking of your career right now be inspiration for deploying that in your dating life.

Everything that Robin said is spot on. Not to belittle it, but convincing your boss may actually be the easy part. If your passion for your job comes off this well on an internet message board I’m sure he / she has noticed it firsthand. Follow Robin’s advice to get your boss on the same page.

Once there, your boss can help you with the hard part and has nothing to do with you or your performance. Think about it in terms of a ‘Role’. In most larger companies, a position / role precedes the actual associate or employee. And in that situation, converting a role from Nonexempt to Exempt is something where others (HR) need to get involved. In the extreme case, it may be as hard as creating a new position, getting all sorts of necessary approvals, and then posting it. Even in the simplest of situations though, it may take some time operationally.

So when you discuss with your boss, do all the things Robin said first, but get through those quickly. Be confident, direct, and short. Use phrases like “Although I may need some flexibility with my schedule, I’m effectively in a full time position as is”, “As you can appreciate, school is very important to me, but I’m also committed to this company and loyalty is something you can see I value deeply.” Your manager should be on the same page as you very quickly.

That’s when you need to shift the focus to getting this done. A good transition would be “Who do we need to work with to convert this position to full-time?” and then “What can I do to help?”. Offering to help with the logistics will get their brain thinking on what they need to do to get this done. And that really is the hard part; convincing your boss to do work in support of you. But it’s up to you to keep pushing that, not in the “I deserve it" tone, but the “What’s the status of this” tone.

Best of luck

...Or they are just being cheap and don't want to pay her insurance and stuff if they don't have to? I see that happen a lot, especially in the publishing industry. A lot of magazines I write for have laid off full-time writers and just taken more pieces from freelancers. It's kind of shitty, but they do it.

Lazy and predictable comment. Unless an employee is proactive about their career, like Kat is doing right now, status quo is the status quo and will be until the discussion is forced.

[Robin]

Thanks, Wes!
My bosses have always been in HR, so I never had to go through a "chain of command" when requesting things. Some very good input.

Kat: Also find out what you want more. The raise or regular full time status (benefits eligible)? If the company can't give you everything you're asking for, be ready to negotiate.

[Courtney]

Dang. First dissed by BD, then dissed by PDW. Today's not my night. Although yes, you were correct that it was a lazy post.

My point was simply that it's probably not a question of Kat's work quality or school.status. It's probably a question of bottom line for the company. If they can get a freelancer to do the exact same work as an on-staff employee, and the freelancer is cheaper, it's pretty much a no-brainer. So, as Robin rightly suggested above, it's up to Kat to make the case for transitioning her job and why that will be in the best interest of the company.

[kitt kat]

Thanks, everyone. This is great. I was able to convince two bosses to let me stay on when I enrolled in grad school, so I think this (while tougher) should be feasible if I stick to a plan.

More so than being a full employee within the company (and not in the temp agency), I think I would need the raise more. I still have two years eligible on my parents' health insurance, and I am happy with that coverage right now. I could open a 401k on my own. Money? Well, that has to come from somewhere. I'm freelancing more, but the pay is only a few hundred dollars a month. I could use an extra $100-$300 a week for sure.

[ThatGirl]

Hey everyone - you all made some valid points - I did agree with what Robin and Wes both had to say. While I think you need to consider the flexibility you have there while finishing school - if you can demonstrate the value you are adding comparitive to the market despite the flex you are given - you have a case for an increase. Best thing is to do your research and approach the process formally. But be prepared for the possibility that since you aren't an employee you may not have the influence you would like. Hopefully they will see your contributions for what they are and meet you somewhere halfway.

[RotationSlimWang]

Has anyone else considered that perhaps the reason they're not taking on Kat full time is that she's fucking useless?

Anyone?

Seriously, Kat, what the fuck do you do? Give me one example of something you did well.

[ThatGirl]

Has anyone else considered that perhaps the reason they're not taking on Kat full time is that she's fucking useless?

Anyone?

Seriously, Kat, what the fuck do you do? Give me one example of something you did well.

I get that you think you're funny - but this thread isn't a forum for you to needlessly shit on others. Ths is purely to help people out. GTFO and find some other thread to poison.

[Robin]

Has anyone else considered that perhaps the reason they're not taking on Kat full time is that she's fucking useless?

Anyone?

Seriously, Kat, what the fuck do you do? Give me one example of something you did well.

Kat stated that she started there with part time hours, and they quickly gave her full time. I'd like to think she's doing something right. Also, she has been there for 2 years as a contract employee. In my experience, contract and temp employees are the easiest to cut hours or get rid of if they are not working at a level we expect.

[guedita]

What is "business acumen?"

Because I tell people I have it.

[ThatGirl]

What is "business acumen?"

Because I tell people I have it.

Hey I figure if you have the business acumen to tell people that you have it, you probably know already.

[guedita]

Well that wasn't helpful.

[ThatGirl]

Well that wasn't helpful.

Fine fine lol... IMO business acumen is your level of understanding of how companies operate and the level of business maturity you bring to a work environment. This would be a learned quality over time, in having years of exposure to several different work related situations and gaining confidence in how to correctly approach them.

[kitt kat]

OK, funny coming on the heels of yesterday...but I just found a job posting for something inherently related to my "Dream job" and pretty much 90% of the "ideal qualifications" I have (and then some.)

I've always felt like a douche writing cover letters. Have cover letter issues been answered on a case-by-case basis? Or is there a post in this thread?

It's an entertainment/news media job that the job posting says requires a deep knowledge of music, involvement/connections and knowledge of the LA music scene, strong writing skills (to write blog posts and scripts) and interview skills. How do I convey that I have all this without sounding like an asshole? I mean...Fuck, I'm working towards my MA in arts journalism with an emphasis on music criticism/reporting, have a very strong musicology background, freelance for music publications, book shows in LA and I'm even fucking writing my thesis on underground music in Los Angeles in the 80s. If that doesn't make me interview-worthy, then I will give up all hope of ever finding a job I love.

Ughhhhhh. Help.

[IceyHotshot]

Fuck, I'm working towards my MA in arts journalism with an emphasis on music criticism/reporting, have a very strong musicology background, freelance for music publications, book shows in LA and I'm even fucking writing my thesis on underground music in Los Angeles in the 80s.

Write this in less of a laundry list format, with a small explanation of each thing linking it explicitly to their required qualification, and have some confidence when you write it. You are SUPPOSED to talk yourself up in a cover letter. It's all that will separate you from the chaff so you want it to stand out. This isn't the time to be modest.

[IceyHotshot]

If it's a good school name it, explicitly mention that it is one of the top programs in your field, mention if you are successful grade wise (provide a GPA if stellar), be boastful.

[kitt kat]

No I get that — I'm more concerned about the structure and how best to get my point across so the person sees this crap immediately. I know they only read the first sentence or so....

[IceyHotshot]

I PMed you the cover letter that got me my current job. Maybe you'll find it helpful, maybe you won't.

[Courtney]

explicitly mention that it is one of the top programs in your field

If your school is one of the top programs in your field, the person reading your cover letter will already know that. I can't imagine how douchey it would sound to say, "Yes I received my MFA in Fine Arts from Yale University, one of the top programs in fine art in the country." I mean, if it's a top program, the name probably speaks for itself.

But I agree with everything else said above.