The Real Coachella Scalpers

[PlayaDelWes]

Where did the 1,314 ticket number come from?

Stubhub.com

[algunz]

I like Cake.

[SeantheJeweler]

^^^ Me too

[still_lurking]

Stubhub.com

How did you precisely collect this data from Stubhub.com?

[PlayaDelWes]

How did you precisely collect this data from Stubhub.com?

When you sell, you can see a selection of every item Sold, Unsold, or Buyer Alerts associated with what you are selling so that you can accurately set a price. I've been collecting this every day since the onsale was announced. Instead of making shit up, insinuating, or talking out of my ass, I'm actually using real data (call it fact). Fancy that. Using real data to support actual logic to make a concrete argument that you are a fucking moron.

[bluemamba]

So ummmm..... does that mean the end of this thread?

[still_lurking]

When you sell, you can see a selection of every item Sold, Unsold, or Buyer Alerts associated with what you are selling so that you can accurately set a price. I've been collecting this every day since the onsale was announced. Instead of making shit up, insinuating, or talking out of my ass, I'm actually using real data (call it fact). Fancy that. Using real data to support actual logic to make a concrete argument that you are a fucking moron.

When you sell, you can see a selection of every item Sold, Unsold, or Buyer Alerts associated with what you are selling so that you can accurately set a price. I've been collecting this every day since the onsale was announced. Instead of making shit up, insinuating, or talking out of my ass, I'm actually using real data (call it fact). Fancy that. Using real data to support actual logic to make a concrete argument that you are a fucking moron.

Instead of making shit up, insinuating, or talking out of my ass...

Incorrect, you did.

I'm actually using real data (call it fact).

Yes, partial data. Hence, talking out of your ass.

Using real data to support actual logic to make a concrete argument that you are a fucking moron.

You have been using real data. Although, incomplete data. Thinking you have a complete picture because you are using a sample of real data is a huge ERROR in your calculations.

Now to point out your missed assumption.

When you sell, you can see a selection of every item Sold, Unsold, or Buyer Alerts associated with what you are selling so that you can accurately set a price.

Yes, a SELECTION. In other words, Not every transaction.

Stubhub does not show every transaction. Nowhere does Stubhub state that they show every transaction and if you look at Stubhub, it is apparent they do NOT show every transaction. If you go and look at Stubhub right now, it will only show about 140 total sales for weekend 1. This is not a complete list. Your 1,314 number is trash.

Stubhub even states:

On the 'Price your tickets' page, we've given you access to the prices of other tickets for the event - the prices that have successfully resulted in sales, and the prices of tickets that haven't sold yet. You can compare the prices of similar tickets in your section, as well as tickets in other sections of the venue. With just a little digging, you'll have the info you need to set a competitive price.

Nowhere does Stubhub state that they show every single transacation. For you to pronounce that there have been 1,314 tickets sold for Coachella on Stubhub, you would need access to every ticket sold thus far. You do not have it, because Stubhub only shows a selection of transactions. Again, your 1,314 number is trash.

Next time you use the word Moron, make sure you aren't working with incomplete data.

[PlayaDelWes]

I deliberately used selection, (besides baiting you) because that's exactly what it is, the last 100 sold transactions, not the cumulative sold-to-date. 100 sounds like a nice round number the developers capped the screen to show. As you mention (and underlined, lol), there were 140 total sales for weekend 1 when you did your little test. That sounds about right, 1.4 tix on average per transaction. But, did you notice that they are all from the last 8 days? i.e., reverse chronological order, the last 100 transactions, etc... There have only been 12.5 transactions per day for weekend one over those 8 days. It's a fact, that you are unwilling to accept because it debunks your entire argument that this is somehow a material source of revenue for Coachella.

If you check Stubhub enough and make a copy of every day's selection, you no longer have a 'selection' because your 'selection' turns into a COMPLETE history of every transaction sold. Your italiced quote from Stubhub is a waste of space as it doesn't even support your own argument. An easy way to confirm it is a complete list of the last 100 transaction is cross checking sales to the reduction in the available inventory for exact prices, quantities, and descriptions from one day to the next. After doing that for pretty much every day since the on-sale date was announced, it's pretty easy to see that they are indeed providing a complete record of sales.

I know it's a lot easier to bend the map and speculate your little conspiracy theories than it is to actually put in the effort to look at facts, but in this case, the rock-solid evidence against you, and the absurdity of your claims /'s this thread.

Lock it up bitches.

[Wheres the beef?]

I deliberately used selection, (besides baiting you) because that's exactly what it is, the last 100 sold transactions, not the cumulative sold-to-date. 100 sounds like a nice round number the developers capped the screen to show. As you mention (and underlined, lol), there were 140 total sales for weekend 1 when you did your little test. That sounds about right, 1.4 tix on average per transaction. But, did you notice that they are all from the last 8 days? i.e., reverse chronological order, the last 100 transactions, etc... There have only been 12.5 transactions per day for weekend one over those 8 days. It's a fact, that you are unwilling to accept because it debunks your entire argument that this is somehow a material source of revenue for Coachella.

If you check Stubhub enough and make a copy of every day's selection, you no longer have a 'selection' because your 'selection' turns into a COMPLETE history of every transaction sold. Your italiced quote from Stubhub is a waste of space as it doesn't even support your own argument. An easy way to confirm it is a complete list of the last 100 transaction is cross checking sales to the reduction in the available inventory for exact prices, quantities, and descriptions from one day to the next. After doing that for pretty much every day since the on-sale date was announced, it's pretty easy to see that they are indeed providing a complete record of sales.

I know it's a lot easier to bend the map and speculate your little conspiracy theories than it is to actually put in the effort to look at facts, but in this case, the rock-solid evidence against you, and the absurdity of your claims /'s this thread.

Lock it up bitches.

BOOM!!!

[still_lurking]

I deliberately used selection, (besides baiting you) because that's exactly what it is, the last 100 sold transactions, not the cumulative sold-to-date. 100 sounds like a nice round number the developers capped the screen to show. As you mention (and underlined, lol), there were 140 total sales for weekend 1 when you did your little test. That sounds about right, 1.4 tix on average per transaction. But, did you notice that they are all from the last 8 days? i.e., reverse chronological order, the last 100 transactions, etc... There have only been 12.5 transactions per day for weekend one over those 8 days. It's a fact, that you are unwilling to accept because it debunks your entire argument that this is somehow a material source of revenue for Coachella.

If you check Stubhub enough and make a copy of every day's selection, you no longer have a 'selection' because your 'selection' turns into a COMPLETE history of every transaction sold. Your italiced quote from Stubhub is a waste of space as it doesn't even support your own argument. An easy way to confirm it is a complete list of the last 100 transaction is cross checking sales to the reduction in the available inventory for exact prices, quantities, and descriptions from one day to the next. After doing that for pretty much every day since the on-sale date was announced, it's pretty easy to see that they are indeed providing a complete record of sales.

I know it's a lot easier to bend the map and speculate your little conspiracy theories than it is to actually put in the effort to look at facts, but in this case, the rock-solid evidence against you, and the absurdity of your claims /'s this thread.


Lock it up bitches.

I did get a laugh out of the "baiting me" thing. Baiting someone into citing Stubhub's FAQs that DO NOT state that they post every transaction does not help your side. You stated that it is a waste of space to cite Stubhub, because you are cross checking an incomplete list against an incomplete list of sales....nice job.

A complete list of an incomplete list is still an incomplete list.

Stating that Stubhub's own FAQs don't matter to prove a point IS bending the map.

The hilarious thing about your rock-solid evidence is that you are speaking about one secondary market, which is Stubhub.

OP remains a moron. So far 1,314 tix have sold on Stubhub for $540 on average for a gross of $710K. After 15% commission to Stubhub, net revenue is $600K to Sellers. Since GV proved they could sell out Shuutle / Pass combos, let's call the true cost of the Stubhub inventory to be $350 per pass (or $460K). $600K - $460K nets a profit of $140K to ALL sellers. Even if GV conspired to be half the sellers on Stubhub, the total opportunity is pocket change to them in exchange for a whole lot of effort plus reputational risk.

AND, you stated that shuttle passes should be the true cost of Stubhub inventory at $350 is also a joke. You must think its free for Goldenvoice to provide shuttles.

Furthermore, your previous posting about how Stubhub takes a 15% take is laughable. Maybe you haven't heard of contracts. Do you really think Goldenvoice pays the same broker fee to Stubhub that you pay?

[DANCE MAGIC]

The part that's still bothering me is this:

So fucking what?

Even if everything you're saying is true (it isn't) what fucking difference does it make? They are allowed to sell their tickets however the fuck they want. Why is this still being discussed?

[LiquidL]

The part that's still bothering me is this:

So fucking what?

Even if everything you're saying is true (it isn't) what fucking difference does it make? They are allowed to sell their tickets however the fuck they want. Why is this still being discussed?

Hey let them argue it out, it's rather enjoyable.

[chickonmytip]

The Great Ticket Scandal


03:01 PM, Friday 2/24/12 6| 39 |
.About two-thirds of all tickets on secondary ticketing sites are not being offered by fans but supplied by bulk purchasers and the promoters of the shows, according to a UK television documentary aired Feb. 23.

Two reporters from Channel 4’s “Dispatches” went undercover at Viagogo’s London office to lift the lid on how the UK’s ticket resale business operates.

The investigative documentary – titled “The Great Ticket Scandal” – was screened a day after Viagogo failed to get a High Court injunction to prevent its airing.

Viagogo UK director Edward Parkinson said the injunction was intended to prevent customer information from being made public.

The programme contained allegations that UK concert promoters including Live Nation, SJM Concerts, Metropolis, 3A and MCD are supplying tickets direct to secondary sites.

“We’d probably all prefer it if the secondary market didn’t exist but the genie’s out of the bottle,” Paul Latham, LN’s international chief ops officer, told Pollstar the day after the programme aired.

“The promoters take the risk and the artists do the performance, so why wouldn’t we want a slice of the extra money that's being made from it – rather than see it go to touts and profiteers.”

Latham also said Live Nation has never given an allocation to a secondary ticketer without the act or its management knowing the details and giving their consent.

The “Great Ticket Scandal” claimed that – in addition to their allocations – the major resale sites are slipping through the nets that primary ticket-sellers such as Ticketmaster put in place to prevent bulk buying.

It said that they have teams of buyers using piles of credit cards registered to different addresses.

The camera focused on a wad of credit cards on the desk of a Viagogo staffer, who told the undercover reporter that this was information that shouldn’t be shared with the public.
Seatwave chief Joe Cohen released a statement saying his company doesn’t buy any tickets for resale.

“We do allow our employees to do so – it helps them understand what we do and improve our service – but they can only do so under strict guidelines,” he explained. “Employees cannot buy or sell during business hours, or while in the Seatwave offices, nor can they use Seatwave equipment to do so.”

Much of the programme’s content may not have surprised people working in the live music business, but it sparked a torrent of public comment.

It suggested that the bulk buying of tickets as soon as they go on sale means the so-called fan-to-fan sites are actually competing directly with real fans to buy tickets.

It also begged the question of what happens to the VAT, income tax and performance royalties due from the extra revenue.

[shotglass75]

[chucky canuck]

How does*any of this apply to Coachella, where tix were on pre-sale for DAYS? Anyone who wanted one had the opportunity. And because they're all GA, scalpers/resellers/whoever can't charge bigger bucks for better seats.

[chickonmytip]

its just pointing out that promoters are allocating tickets for secondary markets. a fair amount of people would have had a better chance at getting tickets for fair price. perhaps coachella should just be upfront and have their price tiers of $300 $500 and $1000

[chucky canuck]

So you and the OP are convicting Goldenvoice of doing something based only - ONLY -- on evidence that others do it? Also, anyone who wanted a $300 ticket had DAYS to buy one, not seconds, not minutes. Thirdly, Goldenvoice has taken the following steps to address scalping: a) adding a second weekend b) selling tix months ahead of them being issued

[suprefan]

so which account is goldenvoices on stubhub?

[chucky canuck]

You know who the real scalpers are? Mega-scalper operations that use bots to snap up hundreds of tickets per minute. Anyone heard of Ticketmaster vs RMG Technologies?

[Stickjohn]

Yes. That case is an excellent example of Ticketmaster fighting against scalpers who were gaming the system. As far as promoters allocating tickets directly to secondary market - well, then it's not really a secondary market. It's just a different distribution channel.

[darthlaker]

The biggest Coachella scalper of them all is Goldenvoice.

Yes...I said it. Goldenvoice.

Its a scheme for The Corporation all you little Coachellers bow down to every year.

They sold many of their tickets through ticketmaster; however, the rest of the tickets that The Corporation will be selling their tickets is the secondary market -- Stubhub.com. This is a way for The Corporation to make more money off the Coachellers. They can sell tickets they usually sell for $285 on the secondary market for $285++++. Its a good market scheme and allows The Corporation to sell at different price points on your Coachellers demand curves.

Awesome strategy by The Corporation. So when you Coachellers cry about scalpers, just remember that the biggest scalper of them all is the person (remember, Corporations are people too) putting on your event :-)

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Do yourself a favor and get the ticket layaway next year and save yourself some heart ache.

[still_lurking]

Kudos to shotglass and chickonmytip for pointing out the documentary.

To those that want to stick their heads in the sand...they can do it.

[Twattycakes]

Oh snap the grand music festival ticket sales conspiracy will be blown wide open after some jerkoff made a dumbass youtube documentary. Stop the presses! This is gonna be the next Kony, bitches! What's the goal here? Do you want everyone to boycott GV/Coachella based on your crack research involving numbers you have extrapolated from incomplete data?

Fucking give it a rest, this is retarded. Just go to Bonaroo.

[Phunkevil]

To those that want to stick their heads in the sand...they can do it.

Nobody fucking cares. Get over it.

[still_lurking]

Nobody fucking cares. Get over it.

This thread has over 6000 views. People obviously care.

[still_lurking]

Oh snap the grand music festival ticket sales conspiracy will be blown wide open after some jerkoff made a dumbass youtube documentary. Stop the presses! This is gonna be the next Kony, bitches! What's the goal here? Do you want everyone to boycott GV/Coachella based on your crack research involving numbers you have extrapolated from incomplete data?

Fucking give it a rest, this is retarded. Just go to Bonaroo.

Twattycakes, you're an idiot. Dispatches is not a youtube show, and you obviously did not watch it. Its been around since 1987 in England and its England's version of Current Affairs. In the last 15 years its won 5 Royal Television Show awards.

Twattycakes, like I said before -- go stick your head in the sand.

[still_lurking]

For everyone who doesn't realize Coachella/bands/musicians is/are scalping their own tickets, watch this video and/or read the document:

http://www.fanfreedom.org/2012/09/biebertickets/

[Shaxspear]

Paper or plastic?

[suprefan]

For everyone who doesn't realize Coachella/bands/musicians is/are scalping their own tickets, watch this video and/or read the document:

http://www.fanfreedom.org/2012/09/biebertickets/

So where does it say somebody who played coachella is scalping their tickets? So for example, headliner A at Coachella got 5 extra 3 day tickets to give to friends and family, and they only used 3 of those and sold the other 2. Thats highway robbery right? I mean, $1000 out of $50,000,000 they are making is TOTALLY destroying the image of the artist, yes? This stuff is mostly relegated to pop stars. And its nothing new. I dont see The Fan Freedom Project attacking festivals here. I didnt see Coachella selling tickets of this most recent onsale to ''american express vip'' buyers, did you? I didnt see Coachella trying to gouge their fanbase by rerouting them to another site that sold tickets at inflated prices, did you? Youre barking up the wrong tree here.

You ever read about how Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails fought til the end with Live Nation about ticket allotments for the tour that was done with Janes Addiction? He was sorting out what tickets were going to be sold for the fan presale. Live Nation didnt want to budge on a good portion of the prime seating that they would put aside to throw onto the secondary market. It pretty much came to a standoff and NIN won out. Because if they didnt agree to let them all go to fans, they would go with another promoter and LN badly needed the tour. Dont think artists dont realize about this shit. Some just let management handle it all, some make sure things are taken care of.

[Bumblebee]

GV are making side money with hotel packages. Probably 12,000 rooms per weekend locked up by GV and sold with passes for couple hundred dollar markup, meaning a couple million profit on the side. California laws limits how much hotels can jack up prices, but those laws don't apply to "travel packages" and GV has strict rules about sales per person and how they can be re sold.

These packages take months to sell out and this is one of the reasons radius clauses are important.

My 12k estimate is based on the 15k shuttle pass capacity(from city council meetings) and the 9k VIP passes(billboard boxscore) that sell each Coachella weekend in 2012.

This throws curious light on the new strict RV rules for stagecoach.

Also it means that as few as 55,000 tickets are sold per weekend at $300. Pre-sale would be more than half that number judging by GV's claim they did 67,000(w1/w2 combined) in the pre-sale for last years festival.