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Thread: Health Insurance

  1. #631
    Pedley Rocks JustSteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    I have a pre-existing condition. I don't deserve to live. Thanks, Rodg!

    Yeah, I have Medicare and can get on ghpp, a state program. Both are a fucking pain in the ass. God forbid I am allowed to pay a chunk of money to have choices, to seek out better care. What a crock, eh? I hope every penny you pay for your health insurance goes to my care. I will make sure and live a nice long life for ya! Asshole.
    Last edited by JustSteve; 11-14-2013 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #632
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Apropos: Conservatives Confident America Rejecting Obamacare, Ready for Every-Man-for-Himself Care

    The small portion of the populace that lies outside of either employer-based or direct government coverage provides the closest existing model for the health-care system conservatives favor. The minority within this market who have insurance, and are losing their plans as a result of regulations preventing insurers from excluding the sick, have dominated public attention and formed what conservatives imagine will be a constituency for their own brand of counter-reform: a deregulated market where healthy people can buy cheap, bare-bones plans, and sicker people have to pay large out-of-pocket costs. Obamacare’s torturous birth pangs have convinced giddy conservatives that they are on the cusp of a great ideological victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  3. #633
    VigoTheCarpathian
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    From the Hippocratic Oath:

    Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

    I'd like Obama to explain how he expects to keep the doctors from banging the pedestrians. Fucking socialist.

  4. #634

    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbles View Post
    I work in finance. I follow the markets and invest - in equities. Market prices right now are not in sync with earnings or company's valuations. These overvaluations, or bubbles, have been fueled by QE - a policy of increasing the money supply (which is unprecedented and different than normal expansionary economic policy). Bankers and investors intently watch the results of Fed meetings. The US economy is not strong - that's why quantitative easing is still in effect and will be in place through at least early 2014. Once the economy turns, then QE will no longer be needed (QE's effectiveness is up for debate).

    Fair point regarding the increase of jobs. I'm always wary of these numbers as they don't paint the whole picture (were they p/t or full-time jobs, what industry, pay, often are "trued-up after the fact).

    You're way off blaming Bush's policies for the 2008 financial crisis. Banks were deregulated with the passing of the Gramm-Leach-Billey Act (in 1999). People were lent money for homes they couldn't afford due to a combination of GLB and the CRA. This led to overvaluation of real estate. Let's not even get into the mortgage backed securities and bundling of loans (Fannie/Freddie). There was a lot of greed involved coupled with loosened regulations. Asset bubbles were created and people got burnt. Then we bailed the people out who created the whole mess. Blaming Bush for that is inaccurate and misleading.

    I agree with everything you said in your fiscal responsibility paragraph. One thing I'd like to add - we have a lot of companies in private industry who are reliant on us being involved in military action. It's a business and if we brought the troops home - the troops would be out of work and so would the people who work for the military suppliers. That's a tough one.

    Lastly, nothing I said blames the poor. Simply put, we can't afford this thing and I don't want to support it financially. Not even close to what happened with the Jews.
    It's really kinda silly to say you can't blame Republicans for deregulation by saying Bush wasn't president when GLB was enacted. What's important is that his people were the ones who implemented the law at an administrative level, and whenever it came down to a choice of more oversight or less, his people are choosing less. You also can't blame Freddie/Fannie and the Community Reinvestment Act for the financial crisis. That's just conservative bogeyman stuff. Pretty much everyone who has dug into the facts has concluded the CRA wasn't a factor as 95% of subprime loans were outside the scope of the law. The reality is that the subprime mortgages that caused this mess were mostly owned by investors who simply walked away when things went bad, not evil minorities who couldn't pay for the houses they lived in. Furthermore, it wasn't Freddie/Fannie creating the demand for subprime loans, it was the fixed income desks on Wall Street trying to satisfy demand for high-return CDOs. All this is supported by basically every serious study of the financial crisis.

    Sorry, I know this wasn't germane to this conversation, but I just wanted to point out that working in equities doesn't mean you have the first clue about the causes of the financial crisis.

  5. #635
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    I nominate iamthehorn for Board Member of the Week.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  6. #636

    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    I nominate iamthehorn for Board Member of the Week.
    14b96b9ba4dcb5059f1a321d23fbaa5f6a15f8c42e873bf8744255310cbac683.jpg

  7. #637
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance


    Quote Originally Posted by iamthehorn View Post
    It's really kinda silly to say you can't blame Republicans for deregulation by saying Bush wasn't president when GLB was enacted. What's important is that his people were the ones who implemented the law at an administrative level, and whenever it came down to a choice of more oversight or less, his people are choosing less. You also can't blame Freddie/Fannie (Yes you can) and the Community Reinvestment Act (Yes you can-to a small extent...and other similiar non-CRA programs to a small extent) for the financial crisis. That's just conservative bogeyman stuff. Pretty much everyone who has dug into the facts has concluded the CRA wasn't a factor as 95% of subprime loans were outside the scope of the law. The reality is that the subprime mortgages that caused this mess were mostly owned by investors who simply walked away when things went bad, not evil minorities who couldn't pay for the houses they lived in. (This sentence right here confirms that you have zero understanding of the mortgage market, are confused on terminology, and aren’t even versed in the facts that you wanted to convey even if you could you could piece together a coherent string of logic) .Furthermore, it wasn't Freddie/Fannie creating the demand for subprime loans, (To an extent, they were…considering they were investing in their own portfolio of mortgages. But more so, they were underpricing the guarantee fees which in-turn made them very attractive to fixed-income investors.) it was the fixed income desks on Wall Street trying to satisfy demand for high-return CDOs. All this is supported by basically every serious study of the financial crisis. (Wrong again, which is why almost all politically neutral studies mention about 20 separate contributions to the crisis.)

    Sorry, I know this wasn't germane to this conversation, but I just wanted to point out that working in equities doesn't mean you have the first clue about the causes of the financial crisis.
    Quote Originally Posted by dj12inches View Post
    What makes me qualified? I've watched EVERY fucking episode of American Idol, and every single episode of The Voice...Forget that I won departmental music awards when I was in the 8th grade choir.

  8. #638
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    birds of a feather
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  9. #639
    AMBIVALENT bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    If you were looking for someone to second that nomination I don't think Wes is your man.

  10. #640
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    iamthehorn only has 61 posts, but for some reason I have confidence in his rebuttal.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  11. #641

    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Sorry if my post wasn't precisely accurate. My intent wasn't to recreate a treatise on the subject, just to show that Drewbles was wrong.

    As to the point where you said I'm a big dummy and don't know anything, here is a Fed report on the subject. Obviously they don't draw my same conclusion about it being a root cause because they're the Fed. But maybe you won't find this coherent either.

    http://libertystreeteconomics.newyor...ng-bubble.html






  12. #642
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    look at those graphs. I think Wes and horn will get along swimmingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  13. #643
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthehorn View Post
    Sorry if my post wasn't precisely accurate. My intent wasn't to recreate a treatise on the subject, just to show that Drewbles was wrong.

    As to the point where you said I'm a big dummy and don't know anything, here is a Fed report on the subject. Obviously they don't draw my same conclusion about it being a root cause because they're the Fed. But maybe you won't find this coherent either.
    Your graphs still don't clarify or fix your choice of words for "reality is that the subprime mortgages that caused this mess were mostly owned by investors who simply walked away when things went bad, not evil minorities who couldn't pay for the houses they lived in."

    They just illustrate that out of the myriad of reasons, greater speculation by investors during rapidly increasing HPI was one of them.

    In reality, 93% of delinquencies, 87% of Foreclosure Sales, and 87% of Short Sales have been on Owner Occupied properties. About a third of the remaining were on vacation homes, leaving a portion of investor owned property delinquencies roughly equal defaults on CRA loans.
    Quote Originally Posted by dj12inches View Post
    What makes me qualified? I've watched EVERY fucking episode of American Idol, and every single episode of The Voice...Forget that I won departmental music awards when I was in the 8th grade choir.

  14. #644

    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Your graphs still don't clarify or fix your choice of words for "reality is that the subprime mortgages that caused this mess were mostly owned by investors who simply walked away when things went bad, not evil minorities who couldn't pay for the houses they lived in."

    They just illustrate that out of the myriad of reasons, greater speculation by investors during rapidly increasing HPI was one of them.

    In reality, 93% of delinquencies, 87% of Foreclosure Sales, and 87% of Short Sales have been on Owner Occupied properties. About a third of the remaining were on vacation homes, leaving a portion of investor owned property delinquencies roughly equal defaults on CRA loans.
    To be fair, you're right that I shouldn't have said "mostly." I was thinking 50-60% when I said that, which was high when looked back on it, but close. I don't agree with your inference that owners of vacation homes don't count as investors, and I really don't know where you plucked those numbers from. Yes, there were lots of factors, but the thing that made 2008 a full blown crisis, rather than a run of the mill recession, were the actions of private investors and banks. If you say the mortgage crisis was caused by the CRA and Freddie/Fannie, you are wrong. That's all I was looking to prove.

    Where are you get 93% on delinquencies and at what time? I'm not sure how you can square those numbers with the Fed data, and even then that could be more on the effect side of the crisis rather than cause.
    Last edited by iamthehorn; 11-15-2013 at 12:28 PM.

  15. #645
    old school JorgeC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    look at those graphs. I think Wes and horn will get along swimmingly.
    we need a graph-off.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Which healthcare provider will euthanize you the fastest as a service to society?
    9/18 Fatboy Slim@Shrine - 9/19 Poolside@Skyway Pomona - 9/22 Interpol@Fox Pomona - 9/23 La Roux@Fonda - 9/25 Simian Mobile Disco@El Rey - 9/26 Die Antwoord@Observatory - 10/8 Gus Gus@Roxy - 10/10 Twin Shadow@Glass House - 10/12,19,26 IAMX@Complex - 10/24 Placebo@Club Nokia - 10/25 Superhumanoids@Palladium - 10/27 Tycho@Glass House - 10/31 Yelle@Fonda

  16. #646
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    I'm pulling it from a combination of MBAA and SNL financial. The delq data was cumulative since 2009. The closest publically available thing I could find online is from the Center of Responsible Lending and is 3 years old, but paints the same picture:

    Contrary to some reports, the vast majority of foreclosures are not the result of reckless speculators
    who “made bad bets” on investment properties. Our findings suggest that, while investment
    properties completed the foreclosure process at a much higher rate than primary residences (8.5% vs.
    5.3%), 82% of completed foreclosed 2005-2008 loans were on owner-occupied properties (see Table
    B).23 Applying this proportion to all loan cohorts, we estimate that 2 million of the 2.5 million
    completed foreclosures have been on owner-occupied properties.
    The owner-occupied numbers in this source and the ones I provided DON'T include vacation homes. Fine, add those to investor owned and the number is still small.
    Quote Originally Posted by dj12inches View Post
    What makes me qualified? I've watched EVERY fucking episode of American Idol, and every single episode of The Voice...Forget that I won departmental music awards when I was in the 8th grade choir.

  17. #647
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    graph

  18. #648

    Default Re: Health Insurance

    There's a big difference between a completed foreclosure and a payment delinquency. Delinquencies are what would affect the cash flow of a RMBS or CDO (and I hope we can agree payment delinquencies, whatever the reason, kicked off the credit crisis). Lots of things affect the speed at which a foreclosure is processed and that can't be used as a proxy for payment delinquency. Hell, if the investor mortgages had gone through foreclosure faster, that money may have stabilized the market faster.

    I'd also like to point out that you're countering Fed data with data from industry lobbyists.

    Anyway, apology accepted for claiming I had "zero" understanding of what I was talking about.

  19. #649
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    FACE. Motherfucking FACE, WES.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
    Look, your parenting is yours and Randy's business alone.
    Fans of TheLastGreatMan Accessory Shop

  20. #650
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthehorn View Post
    There's a big difference between a completed foreclosure and a payment delinquency.
    Exactly, that's why I gave you all the numbers. BUT, as you can see, there isn't that big of a difference between the trends.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthehorn View Post
    I'd also like to point out that you're countering Fed data with data from industry lobbyists.
    Data consolidated from public disclosures is as complete and relevant as you’ll get. What you posted from the Fed was somewhat related at best and is sourced from the same data. Unfortunately, you’re limited to your internet search skills, whereas mine is complete and exactly on topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthehorn View Post
    Anyway, apology accepted for claiming I had "zero" understanding of what I was talking about.
    You are full of shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthehorn
    The reality is that the subprime mortgages that caused this mess were mostly owned by investors who simply walked away when things went bad, not evil minorities who couldn't pay for the houses they lived in
    Things wrong with this:
    1. There is a difference between mortgages owned by investors, and borrowers who are investors in a property. You are saying that “mortgages owned by investors who walked away”. I don’t think any investor of mortgages walked away, even though their investment was worth less than before. If you were familiar with the matter, simple mistakes of word choices that say the exact opposite of the point you were trying to convey, wouldn’t happen.
    2. The data shows that owner occupied primary residences have 4X greater delinquencies and disposition of those delinquencies through SS or FCL than investor owned.
    3. I don’t have a cut between which minorities are evil and which are not, nor do I see what minorities in general have to do with your random string of words.
    Quote Originally Posted by dj12inches View Post
    What makes me qualified? I've watched EVERY fucking episode of American Idol, and every single episode of The Voice...Forget that I won departmental music awards when I was in the 8th grade choir.

  21. #651
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    [*]The data shows that owner occupied primary residences have 4X greater delinquencies and disposition of those delinquencies through SS or FCL than investor owned.
    the owner figure was 4x the actual number investment mortgage figure or owner mortgages were 4x more likely to be delinquent as investor loans?

  22. #652
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    the owner figure was 4x the actual number investment mortgage figure or owner mortgages were 4x more likely to be delinquent as investor loans?
    The first. Share-wise, 80% of the actual number were attributed to owner occupied, even though on a % basis, investor owned properties were more likely to be delq (8.5% vs. 5.3%)
    Quote Originally Posted by dj12inches View Post
    What makes me qualified? I've watched EVERY fucking episode of American Idol, and every single episode of The Voice...Forget that I won departmental music awards when I was in the 8th grade choir.

  23. #653
    zeezus amyzzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    This is the worst thread in the internet. Congratulations, guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Because fucking millenials that's what

  24. #654
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    you're going to need graph to back your claim.

  25. #655

    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Things wrong with this:[LIST=1][*]There is a difference between mortgages owned by investors, and borrowers who are investors in a property. You are saying that “mortgages owned by investors who walked away”. I don’t think any investor of mortgages walked away, even though their investment was worth less than before. If you were familiar with the matter, simple mistakes of word choices that say the exact opposite of the point you were trying to convey, wouldn’t happen.
    Boom, roasted, you got me. I should have said "the subprime borrowers who caused this mess were largely investors...." Way to go.

    [*]The data shows that owner occupied primary residences have 4X greater delinquencies and disposition of those delinquencies through SS or FCL than investor owned.
    Sounds like you're talking about on a national level, but look at the third graph I posted, part two. I brought this up in the context of things that caused the financial crisis (not the effects). If you were familiar with the data you of course know that problem securities, like the ones that brought down AIG, had a disproportionate number of mortgages from CA/AZ/NV/FL. In 2007, almost 40% of investors with seriously delinquent loans owned multiple pieces of real estate, which I consider to be a perfectly fair proxy for "subprime borrowers who are investors," not owner occupiers. (There's also, as I'm sure you're aware, the significant chucks of cash-out refis, 20-30% in many RMBS pools. This could also be indicative of "investment" activity by owner occupiers who are either sinking that money into granite countertops or new boats, but that's an aside).

    [*]I don’t have a cut between which minorities are evil and which are not, nor do I see what minorities in general have to do with your random string of words.
    That's the other thing. My originally purpose was to rebut Drewbles, who blamed the CRA for the credit crisis. In my experience in this matter, which I do in fact have, the CRA is the boogeyman the right wing trots out when they're too polite to say "Bill Clinton forced banks to give loans to poor black people, then they defaulted and bankrupt the country." This is an actual belief many stupid people have. That's why I threw in this snide comment, and the stupidity of his original post was why I didn't feel the need to thoroughly scrub my post about the financial crisis on a music themed internet message board for 100% accuracy.

  26. #656
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Gotcha. Delinquency rates and ownership type vary geographically.
    Quote Originally Posted by dj12inches View Post
    What makes me qualified? I've watched EVERY fucking episode of American Idol, and every single episode of The Voice...Forget that I won departmental music awards when I was in the 8th grade choir.

  27. #657
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  28. #658
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayaDelWes View Post
    Gotcha. Delinquency rates and ownership type vary geographically.
    Nobody's vacationing in my neighborhood

  29. #659
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheddar's Cousin View Post
    At my place of employment, he currently has good coverage for his entire family for $50.00 a month, including vision and dental.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Does he work at your place of employment?
    We currently have about 100 $9.00/hr landscapers taking advantage of this policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobert View Post
    Well that's probably just his out of pocket expenses. A comprehensive benefit package like that most likely costs 10x that amount, if not more.
    No, that is the premium they pay. My employer picks up the rest.

    Also, just because the deadline has been extended, it doesn't mean you can't still sign up.

    How many of you are already in the exchanges? The ACA depends upon the involvement of the young and the healthy to even out the risk pool. Or are you just gong to take the penalty and screw the needy?
    Last edited by Cheddar's Cousin; 11-15-2013 at 07:59 PM.
    Youth, you son of a bitch, where did you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma Ocean View Post
    so I assume you've never been cunt punched at a festival? Well lucky you!

  30. #660
    old school Cheddar's Cousin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miroir Noir View Post
    When he said "you can keep your plan" over and over, he wasn't even thinking of the people already in the private insurance market. It was an oversimplified piece of rhetoric that now looks like a lie or cluelessness when applied to an entirely different context than the one he was speaking to.

    When he said, "...You can keep your plan." he said,"period." He actually said it out loud. This leaves absolutely no room for oversimplified, ambiguousness...PERIOD.
    Youth, you son of a bitch, where did you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma Ocean View Post
    so I assume you've never been cunt punched at a festival? Well lucky you!

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