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Thread: Health Insurance

  1. #271
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Learn how to read.

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  2. #272
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Jorge was, I think (I'm sure he can chime in) reading Archie's comment as if Archie intended to suggest that eventually, both parties will be "satisfied" with the amount of profit they've negotiated, and will then cease to negotiate for increased profits.
    How pedantic of him.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  3. #273
    zeezus amyzzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    My head explodes after the third negative.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Because fucking millenials that's what

  4. #274
    old school JorgeC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Jorge was, I think (I'm sure he can chime in) reading Archie's comment as if Archie intended to suggest that eventually, both parties will be "satisfied" with the amount of profit they've negotiated, and will then cease to negotiate for increased profits.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Which healthcare provider will euthanize you the fastest as a service to society?
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  5. #275
    old school JorgeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    This is not the thread to construct your proto-Marxist fantasy arguments, Jorge. But if you think doctors aren't greedy, you've obviously never done business with doctors.
    i do think doctors are greedy, but I think companies are greedier. It's the difference between dealing with 1 person vs dealing with an angry mob, where the angry mob is all the people that make up the company (owners, shareholders, what have you) that are screaming for more profits. This analogy added for the sake of Amyzz.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Which healthcare provider will euthanize you the fastest as a service to society?
    8/2&3 HARD Summer - 8/7 Arctic Monkeys@Staples - 8/8 Cut Copy@Brooklyn Bowl - 8/22 NIN@Verizon - 8/23&24 FYF Fest - 9/2 Bear in Heaven@Echoplex - 9/4 Phantogram@Fox Pomona - 9/6 Atmosphere@Palladium - 9/10 Britney Spears - 10/8 Gus Gus@Roxy - 10/10 Twin Shadow@Glass House

  6. #276
    zeezus amyzzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Because fucking millenials that's what

  7. #277
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JorgeC View Post
    i do think doctors are greedy, but I think companies are greedier. It's the difference between dealing with 1 person vs dealing with an angry mob, where the angry mob is all the people that make up the company (owners, shareholders, what have you) that are screaming for more profits. This analogy added for the sake of Amyzz.
    1 person? This is not Marcus Welby.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  8. #278
    Bambi menikmati's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    This thread is just too adult for me.

  9. #279
    old school JorgeC's Avatar
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    Tom, remember i dumbed it down for Amy. I know it's not individual doctors personally negotiating their rates and I know you're much closer to this than i am (i'm just your average Joe Blow customer). While I enjoy learning more about our poor excuse for a health care system through your dialogue with Archie, my reason for quoting Archie's sentence is that I feel that point is one of the root causes of the problem with the entire system. A for-profit company will tend to want more profits and we all pay the price because we will all end up in a hospital at one point or another.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Which healthcare provider will euthanize you the fastest as a service to society?
    8/2&3 HARD Summer - 8/7 Arctic Monkeys@Staples - 8/8 Cut Copy@Brooklyn Bowl - 8/22 NIN@Verizon - 8/23&24 FYF Fest - 9/2 Bear in Heaven@Echoplex - 9/4 Phantogram@Fox Pomona - 9/6 Atmosphere@Palladium - 9/10 Britney Spears - 10/8 Gus Gus@Roxy - 10/10 Twin Shadow@Glass House

  10. #280
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    are you suggesting the government should nationalize all the hospitals as well as the insurance companies?
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  11. #281
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    YES
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  12. #282
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    well good luck with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  13. #283
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Your industry thrives because people are dumb cunts.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  14. #284
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Unlike IT?
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  15. #285
    Member Archie Bunker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Your industry thrives because people are dumb cunts.
    Health care is an industry where fraud is easy to perpetrate and waste can easily occur without even intentionally doing so.

    If we move to a single-payer/socialized model of health care, prepare for epic levels of fraud, inefficiency, and waste.

    Many want socialized medicine because they feel their health care will be "free". Well, I guess it will be if you're unemployed and pay no income tax, but it would create a major tax burden that this country cannot afford.

    Using other countries as an example of "success" is flawed for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is the fact that the US is incredibly different from every other first-world country. What works in Sweden will not necessarily work here.
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  16. #286
    old school JorgeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    are you suggesting the government should nationalize all the hospitals as well as the insurance companies?
    I can't imagine what i'd do with this problem if i were "king for a day". Going in the extreme opposite direction isn't possible in today's environment as it would surely cause more chaos. I'll take a wait and see approach and see what the Californiaexchange site offers. I don't believe in quick fixes, but in (my limited knowledge of) Obamacare, i'm glad to know we're trying to address some of the symptoms (more transparency, getting everyone insured, etc).
    Last edited by JorgeC; 08-01-2013 at 12:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Which healthcare provider will euthanize you the fastest as a service to society?
    8/2&3 HARD Summer - 8/7 Arctic Monkeys@Staples - 8/8 Cut Copy@Brooklyn Bowl - 8/22 NIN@Verizon - 8/23&24 FYF Fest - 9/2 Bear in Heaven@Echoplex - 9/4 Phantogram@Fox Pomona - 9/6 Atmosphere@Palladium - 9/10 Britney Spears - 10/8 Gus Gus@Roxy - 10/10 Twin Shadow@Glass House

  17. #287
    Member Archie Bunker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    I am fine with the checks-and-balances that are created between the insurance and health care industries.

    The insurance companies fight on their end to keep costs down because they have to pay a large percentage of them, and the health care providers fight to raise fees, but know that the private industry (insurance) paying much of them will not let them run out of control. At the same time, health care providers make many decisions to provide care independent of what insurance companies decide (except in a few pre-auth cases), so this mostly prevents the situation where people are denied care simply to save the insurance company money.

    I will say that I dislike HMOs for this reason. I don't like at all when the company providing the care and paying the bill are one and the same. There are many HMO horror stories that are a different discussion for a different time.

    But putting that aside, I thing the private insurer/private health provider model works, and just needs various tweaks and changes to fix some gaping holes in our current system.

    The three gaping holes I see at the moment are:

    1) Unfair differential between rates for insured and uninsured patients

    2) Convoluted, confusing billing system that makes it difficult for patients to understand what they're going to owe prior to deciding upon treatment

    3) Difficulty getting insurance for the working poor and self-employed with any kind of minor pre-existing condition

    I feel that there are reasonable, common-sense solutions to all three of the above issues, but nobody who matters wants to address these because they are too busy with partisan fighting and focusing on all the wrong things.

    I agree with parts of Obamacare, but also dislike a lot of it, including its main premise of the "Health Exchanges", which I think will be a big-time bureaucratic failure.
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  18. #288
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    I will say that I dislike HMOs for this reason. I don't like at all when the company providing the care and paying the bill are one and the same.
    The only enterprise following this model anymore is Kaiser. And even then, the doctors are part of the Permanente Medical Group, which is separate (not just legally distinct, but also financially and operationally).
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  19. #289
    Member birdiearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    PPO all the way. Thanks, employer!

  20. #290
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Thank you for that thoughtful contribution, birdiearch.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  21. #291
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    Health care is an industry where fraud is easy to perpetrate and waste can easily occur without even intentionally doing so.

    If we move to a single-payer/socialized model of health care, prepare for epic levels of fraud, inefficiency, and waste.

    Many want socialized medicine because they feel their health care will be "free". Well, I guess it will be if you're unemployed and pay no income tax, but it would create a major tax burden that this country cannot afford.

    Using other countries as an example of "success" is flawed for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is the fact that the US is incredibly different from every other first-world country. What works in Sweden will not necessarily work here.
    What works in every other fucking country in the industrialized world won't necessarily work here: idiotic bullshit being used by assholes to control morons.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  22. #292
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    There's exactly one thing about the United States of America that has set it apart as a country:

    The single most profitable piece of land on the globe obtained for the absolute lowest amount of money/goods/deaths in capturing it, half a world away from every other significant piece of competition as a nation and insulated from attack by two gigantic ocean borders.

    That is the reason we are different from the rest of the world, and that's about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  23. #293
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    PREPARE FOR EPIC LEVELS OF FRAUD

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  24. #294
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    I was part of a fun little scam to defraud Medicare that netted me a good 2-3 grand a month for the time I was doing it. It was a pretty good deal, requiring all of 10 hours a week of effort. It ain't hard to commit fraud in the system as it is now. Fraud is not a good enough reason to let people be sick and die.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  25. #295
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Sure, but the argument that the system change is all of a sudden going to cause a major influx of people willing to put in effort to commit fraud is a flawed argument. It presumes that there's a significant portion of society that is just waiting and hoping and plotting to commit fraud but it's too hard for them to do now with the current system.

    And that's stupid.

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  26. #296
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Well the stupider part of it is that it ignores some simple precepts one would assume holds in generally all pragmatism--that health is more valuable than money for starters, and then from there the concept that it is ever better for a collective to act in complete and total self-interest. Once you become part of a massive throng in which individuals are interdependent on one another, it is always in the interest of the majority to minimize levels of harm to all minorities as much as reasonably possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  27. #297
    Member birdiearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Hey, I'm working on it

  28. #298
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    The three gaping holes I see at the moment are:

    1) Unfair differential between rates for insured and uninsured patients

    2) Convoluted, confusing billing system that makes it difficult for patients to understand what they're going to owe prior to deciding upon treatment

    3) Difficulty getting insurance for the working poor and self-employed with any kind of minor pre-existing condition
    1) is important to you but is not a major policy issue right now. Bigger fish to fry

    2) is certainly a major policy issue right now but there has yet to emerge anything like a consensus on how to fix it. The issue is broader than just 'convoluted'; there is the whole notion of fee-for-service reimbursement rewarding hospitals and doctors for doing more when what we need is to reward them for doing better. There are toe-in-the-water programs now (e.g., http://innovation.cms.gov/initiative...s/Round-2.html ) but we'll be lucky to see real change emerge over the next 10 years.

    3) this is the second-biggest gaping hole, and is a large focus of PPACA


    but the biggest gaping hole is: why does healthcare (not insurance, but what actually gets paid to hospitals and doctors) cost so much more in the US than in the rest of the world? Not just a little more.. it's orders of magnitude more. The NY Times series this year has really been eye-opening: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/he...enditures.html
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  29. #299
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    If we move to a single-payer/socialized model of health care, prepare for epic levels of fraud, inefficiency, and waste.
    So just a lateral shift.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  30. #300
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Health Insurance

    What's your theory to that last point, Tom? Why is it so much more expensive? Does the simplest answer stand to reason, that when you have an unregulated capitalist enterprise that is of the UTMOST necessity to the population, it is only natural for an industry to continue increasing their profit margins to the absolute limit of what the market will bear?

    In other words--it will never be fixed without nationalization.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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