CoS's Top 100 Albums...

[bballarl]

Being the first to produce an awesome type of music isn't "lucky".

And Revolver is a more diverse and consistent album than Remain In Light, hence why it's better. Its inception date isn't the reason.

edit: and it's not as if Remain In Light coming out 15 years later puts it in any form of disadvantage in today's rankings. The only albums that are at disadvantages simply because of their release dates in these forms of lists are albums that have come out since 1995ish.

Read what I said again. I don't want to argue semantics with you, but what I said was "they were lucky in being there first and skilled enough to take advantage of that." Meaning they were lucky in the sense that they arrived at a time when it hadn't all been done before, and skilled enough to innovate and take advantage of being there at that time. I was not saying that they were lucky to produce Revolver.

[JamesMills]

Read what I said again. I don't want to argue semantics with you, but what I said was "they were lucky in being there first and skilled enough to take advantage of that." Meaning they were lucky in the sense that they arrived at a time when it hadn't all been done before, and skilled enough to innovate and take advantage of being there at that time. I was not saying that they were lucky to produce Revolver.

I get what you were saying, but this isn't true. There's always going to be things that musically haven't been done before; we're never helpless in terms of innovation. I believe 100 years from now a similar false argument will be made about music today and so on. The excuse "well, it's all been done before so I can't possibly make the best album ever" isn't meritorious for anyone of any time.

On topic, why is Kraftwerk never represented in these lists? I think Trans-Eirope Express is inarguably one of the 100 best albums of all time...

[bmack86]

At least we can all agree that Revolver is the best Beatles album and The Beach Boys are fucking awesome.

The White Album and Abbey Road are better.

[Still-ill]

I dunno, I've had years and years of thinking in the canonized fashion, and then I realized that lots of the stuff I'm listening to is going to be in someone's canon in about 20 years. All this music is just as validly good, and it's fair to compare Wu Tang and The Beatles and Sonny Rollins, because all were innovators and made some killer music. My best argument for Remain in Light over Revolver is that, ultimately, I'd rather listen to it. Revolver has held the number 3 position for Beatles albums for me for a long time, but that means that there are quite a few albums I like before it.

Good stuff. Now on to our next comparison, Pet Sounds vs. In the Aeroplane over the Sea. Discuss.

[Still-ill]

The White Album and Abbey Road are better.

Bmack is earning Bernard points all up in this bitch.

[guedita]

Rubber Soul, mofos. I'm going to cut everyone of you for invalidating the righteousness of my opinions by stating your own opinions.

[SoulDischarge]

I love Dominique Leone's write up about about Trans Europa Express on Pitchfork's top 100 albums of the 70s list.

006: Kraftwerk
Trans-Europe Express
[Capitol; 1977]

The day will soon come, if it hasn't already, that Trans-Europe Express joins the ranks of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and Exile on Main Street as a record that simply cannot be written about. Like those two, Kraftwerk's masterpiece not only represents a high point of its era-- delivering on pop promises years in the making and establishing a voice theretofore unheard-- but contributes to an archetype informing almost anything released afterwards. It quickly became impossible to ignore what the German quartet had accomplished, in both artistic and technical terms. That its breakthroughs actually managed to filter into the popular music arena relatively quickly was a rare bonus.

Twenty-seven years later, we're given the task of explaining what's so great about a record that, by most accounts, is not only a primary color for pop producers and electronic musicians, but somehow still seems ahead of the curve. When in doubt, fall back on the music: The cold, sleek synth textures and disaffected vocals might seem robotic (and of course, Kraftwerk nurtured that image), but they are also perfect realizations of the same minimal, streamlined tension that colored punk and new-wave. The spacious motorik of "Europe Endless" and stark, industrial funk of "Metal on Metal" both reveal a band perfectly at home in the 21st Century decades before it began, and serve notice to anyone within earshot that the Digital Age was upon us. And it would be fantastic. --Dominique Leone

[bballarl]

I get what you were saying, but this isn't true. There's always going to be things that musically haven't been done before; we're never helpless in terms of innovation. I believe 100 years from now a similar false argument will be made about music today and so on. The excuse "well, it's all been done before so I can't possibly make the best album ever" isn't meritorious for anyone of any time.

On topic, why is Kraftwerk never represented in these lists? I think Trans-Eirope Express is inarguably one of the 100 best albums of all time...

Sigh. I don't think we're helpless in terms of innovation either. There is just a different perception of what qualifies greatness now. It's rare for newer albums to enter that hallowed pantheon of rock (Sgt. Peppers, Highway 61, Exile, Born to Run, Pet Sounds, etc.) for whatever reason. I'm done arguing about this. I get what you are saying though. And agreed on Kraftwerk.

[bballarl]

The White Album and Abbey Road are better.

Also, this.

[Gribbz]

The White Album and Abbey Road are better.

Agreed... although my two favorite Beatles' songs are off Help!

[unit300021]

In an attempt to steer direction away from The Beatles, is Quadrophenia really a better album then Tommy? Both are great albums but I think Tommy is better.

[Mr. Fuzz]

Are people seriously calling The Clash overrated?

Give me Funhouse over London Calling any day of the week. I like London Calling just fine but calling it the "Greatest album of all time" or putting it in any top ten is just too much for me. Cut that album in half and it would be better. There are some really great songs on there but there are also some skippers.

And back to the Beach Boys...you guys have to be joking, right? That is some cheesey bubblegum-poppy shit. Their greatest song, Good Vibrations, isn't even on Pet Sounds.

[Drinkey McDrinkerstein]

Tommy is quite possibly my favorite album of all time. Who's Next is obviously the next best the Who album.

[Mr. Fuzz]

COS list
1. The Beatles "Abbey Road"
2. The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds"

VH1 list
1. The Beatles "Revovler"
3. The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds"

Rolling Stones list
1. The Beatles "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Band"
2. The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds"

[SoulDischarge]

Give me Funhouse over London Calling any day of the week. I like London Calling just fine but calling it the "Greatest album of all time" or putting it in any top ten is just too much for me. Cut that album in half and it would be better. There are some really great songs on there but there are also some skippers.

I agree with this a lot.

[JamesMills]

In an attempt to steer direction away from The Beatles, is Quadrophenia really a better album then Tommy? Both are great albums but I think Tommy is better.

I've always thought Quad has been given a lot of slack simply for being an epic, double disk concept album. The same glorification has also benefited The Wall, an album regularly listed in the top 3 Floyd albums when I don't think it's anywhere near the top 6.

I love Dominique Leone's write up about about Trans Europa Express on Pitchfork's top 100 albums of the 70s list.

Thanks, that's actually the first list I ever remember seeing about that album and I totally agree with the review. The album is just so complete lyrically, melodically, and temporally in terms of pacing. Best of it all, it's the perennial album that comes to mind in terms of utilizing technology (which was insanely innovative and groundbreaking at the time, I imagine) to add creative depth to the music rather than detract it with tedious tempos and loops.

[bballarl]

I think London Calling gets most of its credit for being (the critically chosen) album that showcased a punk band expanding beyond punk's supposed parameters (and doing it well.) Which isn't to say it's not great, because it is.

[JamesMills]

Give me Funhouse over London Calling any day of the week. I like London Calling just fine but calling it the "Greatest album of all time" or putting it in any top ten is just too much for me. Cut that album in half and it would be better. There are some really great songs on there but there are also some skippers.

And back to the Beach Boys...you guys have to be joking, right? That is some cheesey bubblegum-poppy shit. Their greatest song, Good Vibrations, isn't even on Pet Sounds.

Agreed on London Calling; I can't even remember the last time I made it through that album.

You're completely wrong on the Beach Boys though. I'm sick of getting in this argument with people here, so I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in another thread (though I apologize that I wrote this in a condescending tone, I was annoyed at the time)

Wow. Have you ever played an instrument? Take that instrument home and start playing chord progressions from the Beach Boys, then try writing a song with as many key changes that somehow convolutes coherently. Only Bowie and the Beatles did it as often and as fluidly imo.

Like John Lennon himself said, the Beach Boys' interludes and structure transitions were more creative than the Beatles'.

[bballarl]

Re: Pet Sounds...as a songwriter, that album just floors you. The songs are complex, well-arranged, and beautifully written, but they are still pop and they are still incredibly listenable. It is not easy to do that as a coherent record.

[JamesMills]

The songs are complex, well-arranged, and beautifully written, but they are still pop and they are still incredibly listenable. It is not easy to do that as a coherent record.

Exactly. This is what I meant when I wrote that only the Beatles and Bowie could pull off these types of key changes so seamlessly while still being highly accessible and listenable to the greater public (because the changes seem so natural that somehow the common ear doesn't even notice it). That's what makes all three sound so much better upon repeated listening, an appreciating trait that you basically never find in pop music.

I would say that the only band since those three to pull off these kinds of creative transitions as often and fluidly is Radiohead.

[thestripe]

Agreed on London Calling

You're completely wrong on the Beach Boys though. I'm sick of getting in this argument with people here, so I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in another thread (though I apologize that I wrote this in a condescending tone, I was annoyed at the time)

I still don't see your point about chord progressions and how that somehow makes for great music. I like Pet Sounds, but your argument sucks.

[Mr. Fuzz]

Wow. Have you ever played an instrument? Take that instrument home and start playing chord progressions from the Beach Boys, then try writing a song with as many key changes that somehow convolutes coherently. Only Bowie and the Beatles did it as often and as fluidly imo.

Like John Lennon himself said, the Beach Boys' interludes and structure transitions were more creative than the Beatles'.

[rage patton]

Give me Funhouse over London Calling any day of the week. I like London Calling just fine but calling it the "Greatest album of all time" or putting it in any top ten is just too much for me. Cut that album in half and it would be better. There are some really great songs on there but there are also some skippers.

And back to the Beach Boys...you guys have to be joking, right? That is some cheesey bubblegum-poppy shit. Their greatest song, Good Vibrations, isn't even on Pet Sounds.

Why are you comparing The Stooges to The Clash? I love Funhouse and I love London Calling. That being said, London Calling isn't my favorite Clash album. My favorite would have the be their first album, the self-titled. That album had a huge influence on me and my taste in music and it is still The Clash album I listen to most often.

As for the Beach Boys, you obviously have never listened to them. Along with what everyone else has said, I have to chime in on their harmonies. Their voices send chills up my spine. The Beatles have nothing on The Beach Boys harmonies. As far as I am concerned as well, The Beach Boys were always one step ahead of the Beatles.



First time I heard this, I got serious chills. If it doesn't do the same to you (speaking generally to everyone reading this), then you probably have no soul.

[Mr. Fuzz]

No, seriously.

[Mr. Fuzz]

We're gonna kill
the California girls
we're gonna fire the exploding load in the milkmaid maiden head
we're gonna find the meaning
of feeling good
and we're gonna stay there as long as we think we should

[JamesMills]

I still don't see your point about chord progressions and how that somehow makes for great music.

That's what makes all three sound so much better upon repeated listening, an appreciating trait that you basically never find in pop music.

That doesn't make sense, or you just don't agree that a music's creativity strengthens repeated listens?

[Still-ill]

In an attempt to steer direction away from The Beatles, is Quadrophenia really a better album then Tommy? Both are great albums but I think Tommy is better.

I don't feel like Tommy has aged particularly well.

[SoulDischarge]

In addition to songwriting and technical achievements and etcetc., Pet Sounds is great because of the emotinal complexity. Each song manages to strike a perfect balance between melancholy and hope.

[Miroir Noir]

The Beatles have nothing on The Beach Boys harmonies. As far as I am concerned as well, The Beach Boys were always one step ahead of the Beatles.

I'd call it a draw through '66, with the Beach Boys jumping out to a big lead with "Good Vibrations," only to immediately stumble and then not get up, while the Beatles lapped them repeatedly with everything they did in '67, to say nothing of "Hey Jude/Revolution," The Beatles, the Get Back sessions, and Abbey Road to come. Brian gave it his best shot, but it's never fair to match two musical geniuses against one.

[TomAz]

Bruce Springsteen, Talking Heads, Beach Boys, Public Enemy, and The Clash don't belong in any top ten.

Congratulations, you make Brokendoll look smart.