Primer: 10 Essential Albums

[weeklymix]

Great post on Shoegaze Zach. It'll provide our household with a great few hours of turntable time and intimate discussion of of a genre we don't find many lovers of in he deep south. I remember how fun it was digging through bins in the 90's looking for more after absorbing a few of those albums. What are your thoughts on bands like "A Place To Bury Strangers" and other current artist who are putting out material that would easily fit into that list back in the day?

For some reason I just can't get into APTBS. I didn't mind their first album but the second in no way wowed me. However, I do love Asobi Seksu's Citrus and some material from M83 who I think some would argue use shoegazing in some of their material as well. I really do love that AS album. Other than the three bands listed I haven't spent much time learning the ways of the current shoegaze-influenced bands.

My thoughts are that I think this particular sound can be timeless so long as you're not putting out tracks that sound exactly like the early 90s. There will always be a place for sweeping guitar effects and hazy anthems. There are certain genres that belonged in an era but I'm open to other bands doing shoegaze right in this decade. Granted right now if I had the choice between say Citrus (Asobi Seksu), Loveless, Split, or Untouched... I'd choose the the last three any day. I guess my point is I wouldn't shun a 2010 and beyond group labeled shoegaze simply because they were labeled as such.

[weeklymix]

Let me think about this one. I don't know if I should go with the more commercial stuff like Bauhaus, Siouxsie and The Banshees etc, that almost everyone knows, or go with the more obscure stuff like Play Dead, Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend or go the 90s second wave route with like Switchblade Symphony, The Wake etc. I guess I could do multiple lists.

Oh, I am looking forward to this.

[SoulDischarge]

Let me think about this one. I don't know if I should go with the more commercial stuff like Bauhaus, Siouxsie and The Banshees etc, that almost everyone knows, or go with the more obscure stuff like Play Dead, Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend or go the 90s second wave route with like Switchblade Symphony, The Wake etc. I guess I could do multiple lists.

The idea is as a primer for the uninformed, so go with the obvious stuff first and if you want to do another list, that's cool.

[Donaldj]

Zack: did you ever get into stuff like Rhea's Obsession, The Changlings or Faith & Disease?

[Donaldj]

I understand, Patrick. I'll try and work on it. There's so much music we listened to back then that I associate with that time in my life but isn't exactly "goth" per say. Stuff like The Legendary Pink Dots, Death in June, Coil, Current 93 all got lumped into our playlists but I don't exactly know if I or other people who consider that goth I guess. Then you have just fucking off the wall weird shit like Sopor Aeternus who is fronted by this fucking lunatic transgendered person and makes some of the most bizarre neo classical chamber music with a voice that sound like a cat dying of a heroin overdose while reading an edgar allan poe poem.. Stuff like that is way "gothier" than what 99% of that subculture listened to. The irony of being in the subculture was how close minded the majority of those fans were, which helped attribute to my eventual complete burn out of it in my early 20s.

[bmack86]

It's pretty awesome that you've got at least two genres that you have an extreme amount of knowledge on. I'm gonna check out all the DnB stuff, and I'll be stoked to read the goth write ups.

And I always thought of Coil as Industrial then Acid House then just insane.

[weeklymix]

Donald: Faith & Disease, yes. No to the other two, now I will go check them out.

[weeklymix]

The irony of being in the subculture was how close minded the majority of those fans were, which helped attribute to my eventual complete burn out of it in my early 20s.

All of my "friends" growing up hated the music I listened to. I guess that's why I still spin darkwave albums. I didn't have a group of friends to even enjoy the music enough to be close minded about other genres. I think the same applies for early shoegaze stuff. Luckily the first board I discuss these with has people who appreciate a variety of sounds.

[Drinkey McDrinkerstein]

The irony of being in the subculture was how close minded the majority of those fans were, which helped attribute to my eventual complete burn out of it in my early 20s.

I felt the exact same thing about the industrial scene I was involved with in the early 2000s. The scene is so incredibly cliquey and there's just so much negativity and unwillingness to try anything new. I loved going to the clubs to hear the music and dance, but pretty much 100% of the people were assholes. The fact that i didn't dress the part just made it worse. People thought of me as an outsider despite the fact that i saw them at all the same places they hung out at week after week and listened to the same fucking records as them.

[Donaldj]

I felt the exact same thing about the industrial scene I was involved with in the early 2000s. The scene is so incredibly cliquey and there's just so much negativity and unwillingness to try anything new. I loved going to the clubs to hear the music and dance, but pretty much 100% of the people were assholes. The fact that i didn't dress the part just made it worse. People thought of me as an outsider despite the fact that i saw them at all the same places they hung out at week after week and listened to the same fucking records as them.

Yes I did the Industrial thing as well. I think we have talked about this. The two, as you know, are very closely lumped together now and as goth music went totally on life support in the late 90s everyone shifted gears into the industrial music back then which also had very little to do with the original industrial music of the 70s/80s. Now I can't even listen to most of either genre without cringing. This is another factor I am having to deal with while trying to come up with a top 10 list, lol.

[Drinkey McDrinkerstein]

Yes I did the Industrial thing as well. I think we have talked about this. The two, as you know, are very closely lumped together now and as goth music went totally on life support in the late 90s everyone shifted gears into the industrial music back then which also had very little to do with the original industrial music of the 70s/80s. Now I can't even listen to most of either genre without cringing. This is another factor I am having to deal with while trying to come up with a top 10 list, lol.

Yeah, we've definitely talked about this before. When I was going to the clubs, there was most certainly a goth presence, but the "goth room" was usually a mix of goth/ethereal/darkwave/shoegaze/synthpop and most of the people dancing in there were even bigger assholes than the industrial people haha. And by the time I got into the scene, ebm had really taken over, and by the end of my time at the clubs more and more were devoted entire rooms to powernoise as well.

[koryp]

I think after we watch the fights tonight, the wife and I are going to work on the request for 80's synthpop sans Kraftwork. To make it more interesting we'll try a list of albums with no top 40 charting singles. A collection to take us into the "less discovered" gems of the time. It'll take a bit of research but I need something light and fun to work on.

[weeklymix]

Maybe if you're doing a more unknown realm I'll take the well-known and include some charting albums. A Flock of Seagulls comes to mind.

[Drinkey McDrinkerstein]

A Flock of Seagulls, Human League, Alphaville, Pet Shop Boys, Information Society, soooo much good stuff to cover!

[koryp]

Maybe if you're doing a more unknown realm I'll take the well-known and include some charting albums. A Flock of Seagulls comes to mind.

you can have A Ha and FOS as long as I get I get Fad Gadget.

[SoulDischarge]

I was going to do dark synth pop, but I'm not sure I have enough albums in mind to do it. Maybe though. I might just do early industrial instead. When ever I get some free time.

I'd definitely consider Legendary Pink Dots goth. While I did say you should include the obvious stuff, I don't necessarily mean that's the only thing you should include. These primers having a personal slant is a good thing. I just don't think you should exclude something just because it's obvious, because for someone that' uninformed, even the obvious might be obscure, or be the thing to trigger a response.

Agree about rivetheads and goths being total twats. I still love a ton of that music but the subcultures built up around them are completely worthless. Like most every subculture. And from what I can tell, neither genre has really kept up musically. How many worthwhile goth or industrial bands have risen up in the past 10-15 years?

[weeklymix]

you can have A Ha and FOS as long as I get I get Fad Gadget.

Sounds good, maybe I'll collaborate with Andrew on this one too (Drinkey).

[Drinkey McDrinkerstein]

The only new industrial-ish band that I am aware of with any kind of staying power and a big output of work is Combichrist. I don't know if anyone here would even be into them, but I like'em a lot.

I think I may do an ebm list for the hell of it, which would include stuff that could be considered darker synthpop and futurewave.

[Drinkey McDrinkerstein]

EDIT: WOOPS DOUBLE POST

But while I'm here, I'd be very happy to help with a synth pop list, Zack

[koryp]

I was going to do dark synth pop, but I'm not sure I have enough albums in mind to do it. Maybe though. I might just do early industrial instead. When ever I get some free time.

I'd definitely consider Legendary Pink Dots goth. While I did say you should include the obvious stuff, I don't necessarily mean that's the only thing you should include. These primers having a personal slant is a good thing. I just don't think you should exclude something just because it's obvious, because for someone that' uninformed, even the obvious might be obscure, or be the thing to trigger a response.

Early Industrial is a worthwhile list. Some of what we are tossing up as possibilities for the synthpop list either drifts toward the darkside and or the artist morphed into industrial over time. Our idea is not to skip the obvious just to be snobs, but to provide for the well mannered music enthusiast who knows all the standards from their 80's station, a map to find their own way into the depth of this genre.

[Donaldj]

I was going to do dark synth pop, but I'm not sure I have enough albums in mind to do it. Maybe though. I might just do early industrial instead. When ever I get some free time.

I'd definitely consider Legendary Pink Dots goth. While I did say you should include the obvious stuff, I don't necessarily mean that's the only thing you should include. These primers having a personal slant is a good thing. I just don't think you should exclude something just because it's obvious, because for someone that' uninformed, even the obvious might be obscure, or be the thing to trigger a response.

Agree about rivetheads and goths being total twats. I still love a ton of that music but the subcultures built up around them are completely worthless. Like most every subculture. And from what I can tell, neither genre has really kept up musically. How many worthwhile goth or industrial bands have risen up in the past 10-15 years?

I've come up with my first five. I'll try and finish the goth list tomorrow.

[greghead]

I'm thinking of doing a power pop list covering mid-60s through 70s. Fun.

[york707]

I hope I'm not biting Patrick's First Wave California, but this is more specific

First Wave Los Angeles Punk (I'll finish this up after I relisten to a few of these to have better commentary, so watch this space!)
...

I am disappointed Circle Jerks/Group Sex was not on this list...

[bmack86]

I think of Black Flag as the end of the First wave, and I link Circle Jerks more with the wider So Cal Hardcore scene, which I was thinking about doing next. And Group Sex would definitely be my choice for them.

[york707]

well since Keith Morris left Black Flag and formed the Circle Jerks in 1979, but before any other singer sang with Black Flag, I can see the grey line. Or not. Or maybe. Or I am just biased to that band.

[Gribbz]

Chicago? Delta? Jump? Piedmont? Vocal? Pre-War?

Specificity helps.

Thanks for doing the Delta Blues. Can someone do the other blues genres?

[Gribbz]

These are a good starting point for Free Jazz.

Albert Ayler Spiritual Unity
Eric Dolphy Out To Lunch
Archie Shepp Fire Music
Ornette Coleman This Is Our Music
John Coltrane Ascension
Sun Ra (anything on El Saturn)
Cecil Taylor Unit Structures
Peter Brotzmann Machine Gun
Pharaoh Sanders Karma
Dave Burrell Echo

I'm not terribly familiar with Jazz sub-genres... which one would Thelonious Monk fall under?

[greghead]

Bebop, though he drifted away from this in his later recordings in the 60s. Hard bop as well, though he's pretty tricky to pin down and pigeonhole with a generic label, his stuff is all over the place. And totally brilliant.

[Gribbz]

Bebop, though he drifted away from this in his later recordings in the 60s. Hard bop as well, though he's pretty tricky to pin down and pigeonhole with a generic label, his stuff is all over the place. And totally brilliant.

Thanks. Care to tackle one of the other blues genres you mentioned?

[Still-ill]

10 Albums Essential To Those Interested In The Genre Known as "Post-Rock"

10. Slint - Spiderland

Now many of you who know a little about me would have probably guessed that this album would not only make the list, but may very well have been #1. It's true, it is one of my all-time favorite records. Having said that, I don't think it would be fair to put an album that I more closely associate with Math-Rock than Post-Rock that high on a list such as this one. But, I couldn't ignore it's association and influence with the genre, so here it is. A blueprint, a couple tracks on this one("For Dinner..." or "Washer") will give a clear indication as to why this is on the list.

9. The For Carnation - Marshmallows

WHOA. Brian McMahan projects back-to-fucking-back? Well, I had to, considering putting this any higher wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially because this one is a borderline EP, and a meager one at that, but I wan't to bring your attention to one track in particular: Salo. It rivals anything Talk Talk put out even in Laughing Stock weather. Breathtaking track, makes your insides feel dense. As far as LPs go, their self-titled is the one to pickup.

8. King Crimson - Red

In the past, I have read pundits wager that PiL were the first incarnation of a band with Post-Rock tendencies, but I think if you were to follow the time-line a little more closely, you would find that not only did King Crimson come before PiL, but they fit the bill more closely. Sonically the only difference between this one and #10 is 20 odd years or so (and maybe the success of Yes in the modern music market). But, if we are going to play that game, then you could make a much stronger argument for Can and their Kraut-rock counterparts, but in my opinion you have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm drawing it here. Plus, I'm too lazy to write about them as well. The key tracks on this album are the last two, "Providence" and "Starless".

7. Tortoise - Millions Now Living Will Never Die

Ok, so you came here for some essential Post-Rock albums. Here, this is about as "essential" as it gets. With some help from David Pajo [Slint (see I told you they were important!)] Tortoise created a classic. The key track here is "Djed", it's pretty damn good. I could have done without the now overused Steve Reich, but, alas, I suppose it wasn't overused when they were dropping it.

6. Bark Psychosis - Hex

Now ain't this a little beauty. It definitely mimics a lot of the other selections on this list, I mean the guitar tone of "A Street Scene" and the Laughing Stock opener are just about identical. Even what they are playing may be the same chord, but that isn't the point is it? That is probably a good thing, isn't it? Wouldn't you prefer a musical landscape where artists try to sound like Talk Talk more often than not? I know I would. Back to the album though, this album has a nice pace to it, this is key to it's success. It seems to lure you in, without being overly patient (a constant downfall of modern Post-Rock artists, too often a band will shove a riff down your throat for double digit minutes, shining an ugly light on a misconception on what "dynamics"...it's not that interesting of a riff, man...). A nice understanding of knowing what is too little, and what is too much make these songs flourish with letterhead precision.

5. Sigur Ros - Agaetis Byrjun

This one you have probably already heard, but I'll include it anyways. It's been rightfully labeled a modern day classic, owing a lot to their gradual rise into the living rooms of America. These guys are almost a household name, which is crazy... a couple lads from Iceland, who don't sing in English (or any language apparently), and compose calming song structures that challenge more so than invite. Oh yes, there are hooks, but it's not exactly the fuck Kinks if you Nah'why'mean? I think what I like better about this one, as opposed to their later material, is they don't really know what they're doing yet. They aren't as confident in what they are playing, so instead of leaving it naked, they give a nice one over with a bit of a washing drone. Now we're talking.

4. Mogwai - Young Team

If there was ever a stronger argument for me including #8 on this list, then it is the Young Team curtain dropper "Mogwai Fear Satan". At a nice round 16 minutes and 20 seconds we get an instrumental that I've always assumed was about exorcising demons, but I'd imagine it might sound a little different to you. I'm getting way ahead of myself now though, I began at the end. The 40 minutes or so before the first blriiing of "Mogwai Fear Satan", is a swooping and weaving hawk of an experience, that mostly disappoints me that the rest of their discography sounded so much like the music on this album, but really didn't at the same time. I'd of even preferred a misguided metamorphosis, to be honest... at least that would have hinted at life.

3. Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven

I'm really not comfortable writing about something so sacred, I even considered (although it is an EP) writing about Slow Riot For New Zero Kanada instead, I have heard numerous times that SRFNZK is not only the essential document for the band, but the holy tome of Post-Rock as a genre... but I'm just not that familiar with it, not enough to write about it, at least. I've heard F#A#∞ more than Skinny Fists, but the musical body consciousness seems to have tipped in the latter's favor. I could have written about the overly-maligned, Steve Albini produced Yanqui U.X.O., but I have a reputation keep up! I could have written about the mysterious All Lights Fucked on the Hairy Amp Drooling, but that might not even exist. Although, I could have made a strong argument that not existing is about as Post-Rock as it can possibly get, but that would have been just plain silly! See how good of a job I did at not writing about the album itself? Saved my skin!

2. Swans - Soundtracks for the Blind

Wowza, this isn't what you were probably expecting. We're twelve minutes and 3 songs in and Michael Gira hasn't even opened his mouth yet! We've heard why we're fucked up, though, and that we don't know how to function common household items (i.e. Forks). A little later on, we'll contemplate becoming a phone-sex operator, deal with getting old.. you see puttering around the house is it, as far as our daily exercise goes, and then lose eyesight in our left eye due to Glaucoma, (Editors note: this is just the first disc). If you want the recipe, the ingredients are equal parts Industrial, Cluster-esque drones, Faustian composition, Old School No-Wave Swans Punk swagger, GY!BE street-level voice samples, Minimalist Goth, and fucking DRONES. It's a double disc'r, but just when you think that this might not be able to sustain another 70 minutes (THWACK!), a lyric about sucking tits or an absolutely ridiculous exercise in genre-bending will occur.

1. Talk Talk - Laughing Stock

In the much cited Mojo interview with Phil Brown, when talking about the endless(ly amazing) one note guitar/feedback solo/bombast on "After the Flood", he said "What do you play after one note? No notes." And if we are gonna go with more overused sum-ups, we can say that this music is like "Going back into the womb" or "Last music. The end of all music". But, this is contradictory... it can't be both. I agree with the former, it isn't the end, it's going back to the beginning, it's an album of warmth, rarely cold. Although I used to say that my favorite of the "big two" was Spirit of Eden, I had a very smart and pretty girl made a strong argument to me that even if SoE is more cohesive and enjoyable at times that by no means makes it better. Even though the angelic tones on "I Believe in You", for example, give me a musical erection nearly every time they pop up, it doesn't equal what Laughing Stock throws on the table, although it certainly comes close, and if we are talking about which is more essentially "Post-Rock", this is hands down the one, simply because it breaks even farther from the Rock n' Roll mold set 40 years earlier in what was most likely a bedroom in the southern United States. Definitely underrated lyrically, "Lifted up/Reflective in returning love you sing/Errant days filled me/Fed me illusion's gate/In temperate stream/Welled up within me/A hunger uncurbed by nature's calling/Seven sacraments to song/Versed in Christ/Should strength desert me...", when M. Hollis lays this heavy bit of verse on us, it confirms our suspicions of a higher theme at play here. If the music isn't dealing with anything happening on this earth, why should the lyrics? An album that everyone should hear at least six time in their lifetime.