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Thread: Fuck the Republican Party.

  1. #4411
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    i figured, but it still needs to be said. i agree with the article that as a whole we need to stop pushing people into debt to obtain higher education. higher learning should be a lifelong endeavor; not a four-year cram session. while certain sectors of the for-profit market definitely needed fixing, state schools get away with a lot of bullshit too. why certain regulations such as gainful employment don't apply to them makes absolutely zero sense to me. my organization certainly ain't offering $300,000 womens' studies degrees.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  2. #4412
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Not commenting on the article itself, but I'm getting REALLY fucking tired of people making online articles with footnotes that have no hyperlinking whatsoever. A footnote, if it contains relevant additional information rather than just citation to a source, should not be a struggle for the reader to access. The internet is a tool that can make these easily accessible pieces of additional information. Grantland and Wikipedia have two fantastic models to make this system work, so it's doable. Article lost my interest when I had to hunt at the bottom to find footnote [IV].
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  3. #4413
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    i must not understand footnotes. i see hyperlinks in the citation area, but it sounds like that's not what you're talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  4. #4414
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Well that speaks to an additional issue I have with this footnote section. They don't use them consistently. Sometimes the footnotes at the bottom are simply to provide a cite, in which case I don't think a hyperlink to the footnote at the bottom of the page (look at any big wikipedia article for evidence of what I'm talking about) is necessary. However, in other footnotes the author provides additional information that further clarifies a point. Decide. If you want extra info in footnotes, use them for that and put citations in as in-line cites, and if not, just include that extra info in the article itself. Sloppy academic writing is annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  5. #4415
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  6. #4416
    Brackish African wmgaretjax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    who still are charging high tuition for large classes with teachers who've never worked outside the hypothetical land of academia are the real devils.
    i know right... like those bioengineering professors running state of the art labs, doing cutting edge research, and educating the next generation of scientists all at the same time. the gall of public universities who actually give these folks jobs when they haven't gone to work for big pharma to do less interesting and less forward-thinking work...

    schools aren't just job farms.

  7. #4417
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgaretjax View Post
    i know right... like those bioengineering professors running state of the art labs, doing cutting edge research, and educating the next generation of scientists all at the same time. the gall of public universities who actually give these folks jobs when they haven't gone to work for big pharma to do less interesting and less forward-thinking work...

    schools aren't just job farms.
    that's not what i'm trying to say. schools may not be ONLY job farms, but unless you come from a wealthy family, how will you pay for school if you can't get a job? also our society fully promotes higher education as a "job farm". i'd like to have a professor that actually has some experience working in the field in which they are teaching. you're right that in research fields, that probably does not mean going to private industry.

    but if i'm studying business, i'd like to learn from someone who actually has run a business. if i'm studying IT engineering, i'd like to learn from someone who has actually been an IT engineer. i absolutely hated my experience at public university. kids who had no life outside of college spent the whole class arguing about the format of the test. professors who've never left the land of academia spend more time than necessary arguing university politics.

    for an industry like scientific research, i can see how the university environment is valuable. but for people studying literature or something like that, there's a whole lot of learning they can do on their own with a little self-discipline and a library card. it's a shame to push these people to take on debt they will never be able to afford. that is more my point. i don't have any experiences in the sciences and am not trying to discount the value they add to society. but i also don't see how a rock climbing wall and giant football complex helps promote scientific research.
    Last edited by chairmenmeow47; 11-23-2012 at 06:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  8. #4418
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    They attract dumb and willing human test subjects. Football has been a long-running social sciences experiment. It's going swimmingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  9. #4419
    Member grannock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Most of the biology grants go to university hospitals and reasearch facilities that have little to do with an undergrad or graduate program at a school.


    It seems like a lot of you guys dont understand how the grant system works for federal funded research. The university profesors are not paid with grant money. Sometimes they employ students to work in the lab with grant money. Most grant money is distributed to programs associated with a university but no real connection to a specific course or class.

    For example, my mom runs a lab at the university of wisconsin hospital doing lung transplant imunology research. She does not teach at all and has little to do with the school itself. Her lab suports itself solely from federal funding gained from accepted grants. If there is less money to go around, she willhave a harder time getting a grant approved, leading to the layoff of her lab staff and leas research towards lung transplants. The issue at hand really has nothing to do with the academic core of the university.

    Colleges make tons of money, they will be fine. The important non profit margin research is gonna get gutted.
    Last edited by grannock; 11-27-2012 at 08:41 AM.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  10. #4420
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Rather than us not understanding how grant funding works, I think the issue is you don't understand how universities work.
    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    HAY CAN SOMEONE DRIVE DOWN TO THE FESTIVAL GROUNDS AND SEE IF THE BEER BARN IS REALLY A BARN?

  11. #4421
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    i really wasn't considering scientific research in my original post.

    here are some quick statistics on the most popular majors:

    http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

    /coolstorybro
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  12. #4422
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Gosh I don't see cinematography anywhere on that list Ivy.
    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    HAY CAN SOMEONE DRIVE DOWN TO THE FESTIVAL GROUNDS AND SEE IF THE BEER BARN IS REALLY A BARN?

  13. #4423
    Member samiksha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    schools may not be ONLY job farms, but unless you come from a wealthy family, how will you pay for school if you can't get a job?

    but for people studying literature or something like that, there's a whole lot of learning they can do on their own with a little self-discipline and a library card. its a shame to push these people to take on debt they will never be able to afford. that is more my point.
    The real shame is that the real skills you learn studying literature (critical thinking and communication) are no longer marketable because college is now a place where students have to pay for job training instead of companies training really sharp students of the arts. Studying art and literature is more than just reading a book or going to an art museum, and shoving those kinds of students into isolation instead of a community of thinkers and workers is a great way to stunt our growth as a society.

  14. #4424
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    The list of things we currently do or attempt to do to stunt our growth as a society is far too long and varied to even conceive of at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  15. #4425
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by samiksha View Post
    The real shame is that the real skills you learn studying literature (critical thinking and communication) are no longer marketable because college is now a place where students have to pay for job training instead of companies training really sharp students of the arts. Studying art and literature is more than just reading a book or going to an art museum, and shoving those kinds of students into isolation instead of a community of thinkers and workers is a great way to stunt our growth as a society.
    Well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    HAY CAN SOMEONE DRIVE DOWN TO THE FESTIVAL GROUNDS AND SEE IF THE BEER BARN IS REALLY A BARN?

  16. #4426
    VigoTheCarpathian
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    society: a good idea

  17. #4427
    Member grannock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    College is a joke, far more schools are the "pay us money we will print you a diploma" than not. How do we fix this problem? Basically we cant. Education is so full of cushy state jobs (or cushy university jobs) that in order to fix issues, half of the employees need to be terminated. People wont disrupt the status quo, soon high school education will be privitized and a bachelors degree will actually cost you more than it is worth. Only way people will propagate change is when the system runs out of money; apparently it can never run out of credability because the american faith in bullshit is unwavering.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  18. #4428
    VigoTheCarpathian
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Is grannock on one of his misappropriation of public funds rants ?

  19. #4429
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I love these throw the baby out with the bathwater rants.

  20. #4430
    AMBIVALENT bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    College is a joke, far more schools are the "pay us money we will print you a diploma" than not. How do we fix this problem? Basically we cant. Education is so full of cushy state jobs (or cushy university jobs) that in order to fix issues, half of the employees need to be terminated. People wont disrupt the status quo, soon high school education will be privitized and a bachelors degree will actually cost you more than it is worth. Only way people will propagate change is when the system runs out of money; apparently it can never run out of credability because the american faith in bullshit is unwavering.
    The American Education System: Not Credabile

  21. #4431
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    College is a joke, far more schools are the "pay us money we will print you a diploma" than not. How do we fix this problem? Basically we cant. Education is so full of cushy state jobs (or cushy university jobs) that in order to fix issues, half of the employees need to be terminated. People wont disrupt the status quo, soon high school education will be privitized and a bachelors degree will actually cost you more than it is worth. Only way people will propagate change is when the system runs out of money; apparently it can never run out of credability because the american faith in bullshit is unwavering.
    This from a guy who can't spell 'credibility'.

    edit: oops i didn't see bobert's comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    HAY CAN SOMEONE DRIVE DOWN TO THE FESTIVAL GROUNDS AND SEE IF THE BEER BARN IS REALLY A BARN?

  22. #4432
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    OK this really needs to be taken apart piece by piece.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    College is a joke, far more schools are the "pay us money we will print you a diploma" than not.
    Give me a specific, concrete example of an accredited university where all that is required to be provided with a degree is the payment of tuition. Before you answer, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with secondary education accreditation in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_accreditation . Also, if your response is going to be on the order of "accreditation programs are meaningless, everyone gets approved", I ask that you cite facts and/or studies that support your opinion.


    How do we fix this problem? Basically we cant. Education is so full of cushy state jobs (or cushy university jobs) that in order to fix issues, half of the employees need to be terminated.
    Which university employees have "cushy" jobs? How do you define "cushy" in this context? Which positions are you suggesting be terminated? Are you saying it's faculty, or is it adminstrative, or something else? Do you want to terminate the guys who cut the quad lawn? Who needs to be fired, what would the university organizational chart look like post-50%-staff-termination?

    Frankly, your emphasis on 'cushy' sounds like envy.

    People wont disrupt the status quo, soon high school education will be privitized
    show me a serious proposal to do this in any of the 50 states.

    and a bachelors degree will actually cost you more than it is worth. Only way people will propagate change is when the system runs out of money; apparently it can never run out of credability because the american faith in bullshit is unwavering.
    The current educational system has existed and evolved into its current form from medieval europe. This 'faith in bullshit' is hardly a purely american phenomenon. That you so eagerly label it as bullshit without having actually experienced it yourself is quite telling. I bet you support Tea Party candidates too.
    Last edited by TomAz; 11-27-2012 at 03:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    HAY CAN SOMEONE DRIVE DOWN TO THE FESTIVAL GROUNDS AND SEE IF THE BEER BARN IS REALLY A BARN?

  23. #4433
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    The fact that you expect a reasoned response is in itself a bit of proof of dysfunction in our education system

  24. #4434
    foof roberto73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    As a university employee with one of those cushy jobs, I eagerly await grannock's responses to Tom's questions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins33 View Post
    Hey rubber toe, it's a message board not a English essay. NERD

  25. #4435
    Endearingly Dislikable RotationSlimWang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Tenure kinda is total bullshit though, guys. I mean, seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by amyzzz View Post
    Hannah, I don't know that pigs have big weiners, and my early 20's facination with dogs because of weiner size, I think. If that helps.

  26. #4436
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    The fact that you expect a reasoned response is in itself a bit of proof of dysfunction in our education system
    I am not expecting a reasoned response. I am expecting an amusing one.
    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    HAY CAN SOMEONE DRIVE DOWN TO THE FESTIVAL GROUNDS AND SEE IF THE BEER BARN IS REALLY A BARN?

  27. #4437
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by RotationSlimWang View Post
    Tenure kinda is total bullshit though, guys. I mean, seriously.
    Yes.

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  28. #4438
    Member grannock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    More high school gaduates are being accepted into college, this percentage increases every year. This percent has risen dramatically since the 70's. This either means that there are smarter kids (lol) or watered down programs that care more about the tuition income than the rigor of the course. More bachelor degrees awarded means the value of this degree decreases, combined with the steady increase in the cost of getting one.

    Tenure is a joke, should be gone in any publicly funded institution. If you are a proponent of tenure you are a shity educator.

    Tom i dont argue with people on the internet and i dont spell check shit i post from my iphone. If you really give a shit or want to argue with me, get a life. If you think these points are invalid, great. Try and explain why there is a larger percent of unemployed college grads right now than at any point in US history.
    Also, let us know how this wonderful system is now creating more debt for youn adults than credit cards.

    Shit is broken, a fix means people who are running now get fired, those people cry and fudge numbers to preserve status quo. No fix in sight.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  29. #4439
    Member grannock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Oh, btw, im a chemist, not an unemployed english major. Sorry i cant spell
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  30. #4440
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    well the article i originally posted that started this conversation addresses why there are so many unemployed college graduates. according to their statistics, something like only 20% of jobs require a college degree, but 30% of the workforce has a college degree.

    also, i'd be interested to know what you mean by "watered down programs". higher acceptance rates mean that more people can get an education. intelligent and talented people who work hard and earn the right to go to a prestigious school (or are alumni or can pay their own way) in their field are probably in more difficult and more strictly graded programs, yes.

    but as someone who is currently pursing an online bachelors degree (and currently well-employed in the online degree field), i can tell you this shit is hard. a reporter once took a course where i work to write an article about how easy our courses were, but quickly changed their story after actually attempting the course. i have to read at least 100 pages every week. i have to work with a group to complete papers every week, on top of individual assignments. i have to make substantive online posts several days a week to meet both attendance and participation requirements. APA formatting is still required and you have to find citations for all your references.

    most programs require a lot of work, whether you are at a prestigious school or not. but what i love about online school, is i can work at my pace. i have electronic textbooks and can easily search and find information i need to find. i have an online library accessible to me night or day. it's difficult, but i can squeeze in schoolwork whenever i have time instead of driving somewhere and dedicating 4 hours to sitting in a classroom while people argue about how the homework was graded or ask questions that were clearly covered in the reading.

    and as with any degree, you only get what you put into it. i like in armageddon when the "smartest guy in the world" points out that you probably wouldn't want help from the guy who got a C-. prestigious schools produce idiots just like any other school because common sense, intelligence, and the ability to adapt and change with new information are pretty innate characteristics.

    i don't believe in tenure. but i also believe that instructors in most programs (obviously jared's example is an exception) should actually work or have previously worked in the field that they are teaching. i absolutely love that every course provides me with real work experience i can apply on the job that very day.
    Last edited by chairmenmeow47; 11-28-2012 at 09:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

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