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Thread: Fuck the Republican Party.

  1. #5371
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Well, I still hate democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  2. #5372

    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Tom, the issue is MUCH more convoluted than that, in part because the Common Core standards were developed largely by non-educators. Implementation thus far has been problematic as well as it tends to overprioritize certain types of thinking without giving options to extend lessons beyond its scope. It's also been described as more a system to test teacher effectiveness than a way to support better educational standards.

    Rob has some very eloquent views on the subject. It's not a fringe issue like that sign might suggest.
    I would love to hear your opinions on this, please.
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    you ever get this uneasy feeling that everyone of us on this board is actually in Hell?

  3. #5373
    foof roberto73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    So I'm driving down the road yesterday and i see a political sign, some guy running for governor. "STOP COMMON CORE" was his slogan. So I googled it.

    Facts: Common Core is an independently constructed, bipartisan, set of educational standards, developed largely with funding from the Gates foundation, to improve the education system. Teachers unions support it, business leaders support it, educational experts support it.

    Spin: Apparently the ultra-right bizarro faction has decided that Common Core is an Obama-led international liberal conspiracy to poison the minds of our youth.


    I hate democracy.
    I can write volumes on this. And I will. But I have to read and respond to some student work at the moment, which means I'll circle back around to it later today.

    Until then, I think it's worth refuting some of the "facts" as listed above. The Common Core (CCSS) was created largely by folks involved with testing corporations (especially ACT, Achieve, and College Board), none of whom have k-12 teaching experience. David Coleman, the main guy behind the English standards, is on record as boasting about how unqualified he was to write them. They were rushed through committee – teachers were allowed to give feedback, which isn't the same thing as having a hand in creating them – and the only reason they have so much bipartisan support is because Race to the Top funds were tied directly to adopting the CCSS and the tests that would accompany them. Turning down CCSS literally meant turning down millions of dollars in federal funds. These standardized tests, by the way, are a cash cow for Pearson, especially since Education Secretary Arne Duncan has currently proposed more tests with more frequency than the country has ever seen before. Teachers' unions supported the CCSS only until they realized the effect they were having, and education experts – those who actually know a thing or two about k-12 classrooms – have never supported them.

    Most of my current research involves examining how CCSS and other "reform" measures are affecting teacher identity and professional autonomy. I'm in classrooms pretty regularly, and the effect of CCSS here in Georgia has been pretty chilling. I hear similar things from teachers in other parts of the country (specifically, California, Illinois, and Pennsylvania). Think scripted lessons, test prep, and jettisoning most literature and non-expository writing from the curriculum. It's hard to write more without getting too far into the weeds, so until I have more time, here's some names to check out: Diane Ravitch, Stephen Krashen, Paul Thomas, Anthony Cody, Susan Ohanian.

    They're all doing incredibly smart work examining how CCSS and standardized testing were basically foisted on the country's teachers, children, and parents as a made-up solution to a crisis that doesn't actually exist.

    It's also worth mentioning that there is zero research to demonstrate that more rigorous standards (whatever that means) have anything to do with our students' abilities to think critically. But again, more later.
    Last edited by roberto73; 06-30-2014 at 12:02 PM. Reason: I can't shut up and have to keep adding more
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  4. #5374
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    How much research is there that demonstrates teacher autonomy improves students' abilities to think critically?
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  5. #5375
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Also, if you don't think there's a crisis in how mathematics is taught in this country, you've not been paying attention. Most people -- a majority of voting-age Americans -- are profoundly stupid when it comes to the simplest numerical concepts.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  6. #5376
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    How much research is there that demonstrates teacher autonomy improves students' abilities to think critically?
    because it was going gangbusters before the introduction of the common core notion. duh.


    for serious tho I do hate the idea of constraining good teachers because of bad ones, but allowing the lowest performers to fail is unacceptable.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 06-30-2014 at 12:21 PM.

  7. #5377
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    yes. well put.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  8. #5378
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Having taught in three different Common Core classrooms last year, I can assure everyone that the lessons make absolutely no sense.

    The problem with national education standards is that they ignore the very real fact that a large part of how people learn has to do with their cultural and social background. A student in rural Mississippi is going to learn very differently from a student in a nice San Francisco public school. National standards ignore that, which is potentially destructive in the field of education.
    Can you elaborate a little bit on why you feel it makes no sense? (genuine question and not trolling).

    Also, please explain your second comment about how people learn differently. Are you suggesting something simply about the language they use or is it something more fundamental?

  9. #5379

    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by roberto73 View Post
    I can write volumes on this. And I will. But I have to read and respond to some student work at the moment, which means I'll circle back around to it later today.
    Thanks for this! Please go on!

  10. #5380
    old school Bud Luster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    CC does not tell a teacher the manner in which to teach things. There really isn't even any common core curriculum created yet. Teachers are angry because they have to create it (boo hoo). The CCSS practically mirror the current (former as of now I suppose) CA state standards. People complaining about the way that math is taught should be angry with the teacher and not CC. Again, CC says NOTHING about the manner in which the content should be taught. I keep hearing that literature and creative writing (narrative / poetry) are being "jettisoned" as mentioned above, but it simply is not true. Sure, English teachers are going to be required to balance lit with expository writing/reading. Many schools in CA have actually used much of their CC funds to purchase more classroom sets of novels. Scripted teaching actually played a massive role during the NCLB years (especially those teaching English learners), so it is nothing new. CCSS testing (SBAC in CA) is NOT standardized testing. Again, the tests ARE NOT standardized. Are the tests poorly written? Are they a good measure of what students have learned and how well the teacher has taught? These are the same questions that have been asked and dealt with during NCLB. The complaint that people learn differently is invalid as well. No matter what the standards are, teachers should be designing various lessons along the way that activate different learning modalities (Jack: auditory, visual, discovery, written) in order to best teach to all types. It doesnt matter if someone in SF learns differently than someone from the south. The multitude of personalities and types of learners in any given classroom already presents that problem. I also keep hearing that CCSS has teachers teaching to the test. Of course they are. The tests test knowledge of the standards. The standards are what the teachers are SUPPOSED to teach.

    Some of the issue in all of this is that union teachers are not evaluated properly. In CA they are evaluated once every two years.

  11. #5381
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I understand that individuals within a population may learn differently, but still curious about Bryan's assertion that there are differences across populations based on geography (or whatever else distinguishes them that may be correlated with that geography).


    How are CA teachers evaluated? Is it purely based on classroom testing performance or are there board tests for the teachers themselves?

  12. #5382
    old school Bud Luster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    The evaluation process may be somewhat different from different from school to school to based on the competency of administrators, but most simply have to submit a plan for one lesson and be observed during that lesson (for about an hour), and then afterward they have a post-lesson meeting with their observer.
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  13. #5383
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Classroom test performances have absolutely no bearing on a teacher's evaluation? Somehow I don't believe this is true. My brother refused to actually honestly take one of those tests during his junior year and just drew patterns on the answer sheet and his teacher begged and begged and sobbed to him about how badly she needed him to take it seriously because her future depended on it.

    Well, in LA's school district, test scores count for 30% of teacher evaluations: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...valuation.html
    Last edited by guedita; 06-30-2014 at 02:00 PM.

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  14. #5384
    foof roberto73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Remember: the current system is not the future system. Duncan has been very honest that a huge part of Race to the Top and CCSS is teacher evaluation. The CCSS-aligned tests were originally scheduled to go live in the next year, and the goal there is twofold: 1) evaluate the teachers, and 2) track the teachers' evaluations back to the colleges they graduated from to evaluate those colleges.

    Apologies for not responding point by point. Bud Luster's first post gave me a seizure.
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    Hey rubber toe, it's a message board not a English essay. NERD

  15. #5385
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    Can you elaborate a little bit on why you feel it makes no sense? (genuine question and not trolling).

    Also, please explain your second comment about how people learn differently. Are you suggesting something simply about the language they use or is it something more fundamental?
    I did three math programs, one in second, one in fourth and one in fifth grade. The second grade one was the one I remember the most, where we were dealing with the idea of a remainder. The lesson plan (it had a California Common Core logo on it, so my guess would be that this was an approved CC lesson plan) had a weird tape illustration where you were supposed to slide a line over until you got to the right answer (say 10/3, you move your line to 3) and you'd see one left over. The problem with that one was that the visual aid might show some left over item, but it didn't work with the concept of division at all: the tape wasn't something students could split up and work with physically. We pulled out a bunch of beans and did the lesson that way. The standards in math were, on their own, sensible, but the lesson plans I was provided with were ridiculous.

    Different socioeconomic backgrounds, access to technology, education level of parents, general infrastructure and tons of other factors are going to affect how anyone learns. That statement was meant more generally, that different students and communities can have wildly different needs, and nationalizing a system ignores that reality.
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  16. #5386
    old school Bud Luster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by roberto73 View Post
    Apologies for not responding point by point. Bud Luster's first post gave me a seizure.
    Sorry about that. More than a bit all over the place. So many variables in play here. Re: Cara's post - I had observation process in mind as opposed to the complete evaluation. I wonder how many teachers have been let go in CA as a result of test scores.

  17. #5387

    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    The teacher's union made it so that it was pretty much impossible for a principal to fire a teacher based on performance. What happened to many teachers that I know was that they were given the "difficult" and lower performing students so that they couldn't "hurt" anyone with their teaching. They were also moved to kinder/TK teachers (basically babysitters).

  18. #5388
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    I did three math programs, one in second, one in fourth and one in fifth grade. The second grade one was the one I remember the most, where we were dealing with the idea of a remainder. The lesson plan (it had a California Common Core logo on it, so my guess would be that this was an approved CC lesson plan) had a weird tape illustration where you were supposed to slide a line over until you got to the right answer (say 10/3, you move your line to 3) and you'd see one left over. The problem with that one was that the visual aid might show some left over item, but it didn't work with the concept of division at all: the tape wasn't something students could split up and work with physically. We pulled out a bunch of beans and did the lesson that way. The standards in math were, on their own, sensible, but the lesson plans I was provided with were ridiculous.

    Different socioeconomic backgrounds, access to technology, education level of parents, general infrastructure and tons of other factors are going to affect how anyone learns. That statement was meant more generally, that different students and communities can have wildly different needs, and nationalizing a system ignores that reality.
    the lesson example is a bit wacky but not sure it's an indictment of the system in general. I think the teacher has a responsibility to feather in what makes sense given their own context. Not sure CC necessarily prohibits that.

    As far as the socioeconomic differences, those can exist from one neighborhood to the next (even within range of bus programs). I have hard time seeing those should be a basis to treat children differently. Your parents' education, or lack thereof, is one of the primary barriers that the program is aiming to defeat. If the kid doesn't have a computer at home then I think we need to do better to make technology available in schools. Do you have ideas, your or someone else's, for how you would teach them differently but manage to bring them up to the same standards of learning in the end?

  19. #5389
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    the lesson example is a bit wacky but not sure it's an indictment of the system in general. I think the teacher has a responsibility to feather in what makes sense given their own context. Not sure CC necessarily prohibits that.
    It doesn't necessarily, but given that the standards will be the basis for testing a majority of teachers will focus on the way the standards suggest teaching so that students have some continuity between lessons and testing, so while it won't prohibit it, it will dampen the freedom teachers have to bend lesson plans to the class. I wish I had some ideas for a better or more effective system, but then again this was my first year in front of a class.
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  20. #5390
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Related question: Would you feel more comfortable wearing an assault rifle in class?

  21. #5391
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    "Gov. Rick Perry of Texas Is Indicted on Charge of Abuse of Power"


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us...fice.html?_r=0
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