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Thread: Fuck the Republican Party.

  1. #5251
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    What Ivy said about Huckabee's "point" was exactly right. I'll only add that Huckabee said what he did because he is fed up with liberals accusing (falsely and cynically in his mind) white male Republican politicians like himself on waging a "war on women." He thinks that "hey, I'm a loving Christian father and husband, I don't openly discriminate against women, I love women, and it is bullshit that the liberals insult women by saying they only thing important to them is access to birth control and abortion." That is the most charitable reading of his remarks, and even that reading still reveals the tremendous horseshit at the core of what he's saying.

    Women vote more for Democrats than they do Republicans not just because a bunch of white male Republican politicians can't help themselves from talking (usually stupidly) about contraception and abortion. They vote that way because Republican politicians have spent generations ignoring their economic concerns and fears. They think the pay gap is a myth, or the consequence of a rational market function that the government shouldn't be concerned about. They are opposed the the expansion of pre-K education funding, daycare funding, etc. All of the manifold economic anxieties that have crippled the working class since the 1970s have impacted women far more than men, because they earn less than men, because they are often left with childrearing responsibilities by men, because their health care costs more, and because they carry a higher student loan burden. And the Republican response to all of those anxieties is essentially . . . to offer more tax credits (but only if some other component of federal spending gets cut to offset it, even as deficits are plummeting). So with all that going on, yeah, it certainly doesn't help women voters -- 99% of whom use birth control at some point in their lives -- to hear a bunch of windbags who don't even understand how birth control works rail on and on about insurance companies being forced by "Uncle Sugar" to pay for it. Or to hear them whine about how unfair it is when they get called bigots for doing so.

    The Huckabees of the world will never understand that it takes more to be pro-women than simply knowing and loving a few particular women, and going to church with them.
    Last edited by Miroir Noir; 01-25-2014 at 10:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  2. #5252
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by santasutt View Post
    Francis the Reformer has put out some new marching orders.




    1. "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" -- Interview aboard the Papal Plane after World Youth Day in Brazil.

    2. "A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: "Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?" We must always consider the person. -- Interview with Jesuit Catholic journals around the world.

    3. "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context...We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel." -- Interview with Jesuit Catholic journals around the world.
    I'm not saying it's not a good thing that he may have softer stances on traditional catholic dogma, but most of what he says is seems like it's just PR in an attempt to stem the outflow and distract from old regime scandals. No real church policies have changed in a material way.

  3. #5253
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    agreed. he should stick to wealth and humility conversations. he also said still doesn't believe women should hold power.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  4. #5254
    AMBIVALENT bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miroir Noir View Post
    What Ivy said about Huckabee's "point" was exactly right. I'll only add that Huckabee said what he did because he is fed up with liberals accusing (falsely and cynically in his mind) white male Republican politicians like himself on waging a "war on women." He thinks that "hey, I'm a loving Christian father and husband, I don't openly discriminate against women, I love women, and it is bullshit that the liberals insult women by saying they only thing important to them is access to birth control and abortion." That is the most charitable reading of his remarks, and even that reading still reveals the tremendous horseshit at the core of what he's saying.

    Women vote more for Democrats than they do Republicans not just because a bunch of white male Republican politicians can't help themselves from talking (usually stupidly) about contraception and abortion. They vote that way because Republican politicians have spent generations ignoring their economic concerns and fears. They think the pay gap is a myth, or the consequence of a rational market function that the government shouldn't be concerned about. They are opposed the the expansion of pre-K education funding, daycare funding, etc. All of the manifold economic anxieties that have crippled the working class since the 1970s have impacted women far more than men, because they earn less than men, because they are often left with childrearing responsibilities by men, because their health care costs more, and because they carry a higher student loan burden. And the Republican response to all of those anxieties is essentially . . . to offer more tax credits (but only if some other component of federal spending gets cut to offset it, even as deficits are plummeting). So with all that going on, yeah, it certainly doesn't help women voters -- 99% of whom use birth control at some point in their lives -- to hear a bunch of windbags who don't even understand how birth control works rail on and on about insurance companies being forced by "Uncle Sugar" to pay for it. Or to hear them whine about how unfair it is when they get called bigots for doing so.

    The Huckabees of the world will never understand that it takes more to be pro-women than simply knowing and loving a few particular women, and going to church with them.
    This is spot on, Mitch.

  5. #5255
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    i watched love crimes in kabul on hbogo friday night. it was a documentary about women imprisoned for crimes such as running away from their husband, out of wedlock sex, etc. listening to the men speak about women was frightening. and a good reminder about how backwards men here used to be too. at one point two men claimed a woman who had sex with their son had worked magic on him. because i am sure he was forced into it and made no decision about it himself. as though us women are just too provocative for a man to control themselves around us. as if its our job to control their behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  6. #5256
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    More evidence that the "war on women" is a liberal myth: the women in Rand Paul's family are doing great, thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  7. #5257
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    ^ The rhetoric of talking about women in a way that situates us as ornamental dressing to the core of a man's identity (wife/mother/sister) is my biggest pet peeve about politics today. And it's true, both sides of the political spectrum do it. The discourse about rape falls back on it as well (imagine if that was your....)

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  8. #5258
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Right, and the all-time worst (on multiple levels, but especially that one) was this:

    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  9. #5259
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Getbetter's girlfriend says some pretty OK things sometimes I think.

  10. #5260
    Pedley Rocks JustSteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Well, for a girl.

  11. #5261
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    And here's the fundamental flaw of the Republican view on economics today: http://www.alternet.org/economy/20-r...ational-makers
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  12. #5262
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I'm sorry but that's a terrible article. Poorly written and a jumble of facts and myth and misunderstanding. It's a piece of propaganda that plays to base emotions rather than intellect. For example: the bit about Berkshire Hathaway deferring its tax payments. To some guy on minimum wage, that seems horrible: "Oh my god they're not paying their taxes." No. Deferring tax payments is perfectly legal under the US tax code. see: http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...abilities.aspx .

    Now you could argue that they shouldn't be, but then your argument would be with your Congressional representative and not Warren Buffet. He's playing by the rules.
    Last edited by TomAz; 01-28-2014 at 08:23 AM.

  13. #5263
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I figured that was probably the case, but I just feeeeeel that it's true, so I posted it anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  14. #5264
    Coachella Junkie SoulDischarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I'm basically a liberal BROKENDOLL.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Thanks for giving us the opportunity to not give a fuck again.

  15. #5265
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I mean that article criticizes Jeff Bezos for hiring lobbyists. That's just plain stupid.

    The problem with articles like that is there are plenty of factual, logical reasons to dislike billionaires like the Koch brothers and the Walton family and so on. But when you take those logical reasons and mix them in with utter bullshit, it makes it all seem like utter bullshit, and winds up damaging, rather than furthering, a reformist cause.

    edit: no Patrick you are not even remotely like Brokendoll. but the author of the article is heading down that path.
    Last edited by TomAz; 01-28-2014 at 08:59 AM.

  16. #5266
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    There was also this very insightful piece about the megarich yesterday.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  17. #5267
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Meanwhile, Schumer's speech last week is something to get genuinely excited about.


  18. #5268
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Pretty much paraphrased by Family Guy a couple years ago.

  19. #5269
    old school DFrank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    agreed. he should stick to wealth and humility conversations. he also said still doesn't believe women should hold power.
    Gay rights first. And then the women's stuff later. You know thats how this works.

  20. #5270
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by DFrank View Post
    Gay rights first. And then the women's stuff later. You know thats how this works.
    The point is he likely has no real plans to deal with either of those beyond vague rhetoric

  21. #5271
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    The discourse about rape falls back on it as well (imagine if that was your....)
    I think this is a tad unfair. The "your" in this particular context isn't necessarily meant to be possessive or objectify a family member (although granted that SOME may use it that way). You may perceive it that way because the fact of the matter is it's typically women that are victims of rape. Many probably use only make the issue less abstract, as an appeal to your love for your particular family members, not necessarily your ownership of them. If they asked "What if it was A mother, or A sister" it wouldn't have the same effect. If it were 35 years ago and someone was speaking out against the draft and said "what if it were YOUR brother or YOUR husband", would that sound like misandry?

  22. #5272
    Member santasutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    The point is he likely has no real plans to deal with either of those beyond vague rhetoric
    Vague rhetoric that has sent massive shockwaves throughout the rank and file of the Catholic Church.

    Unless they assassinate him soon, I believe we will see a gradual rollout of reforms spearheaded by Pope Francis.

    On the table: homosexuality, pre marital sex and contraception, women priests, married priests, etc.

    The October Synod of Bishops will foreshadow what's in store.
    Quote Originally Posted by MotorAve View Post
    Careful, while the threats are amusingly clueless, I could probably have this whole board shut down with one phone call.

  23. #5273
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    I'm far from an expert in the politics of the Catholic Church. Far. But isn't part of the problem that JPII and Benedict loaded up the College of Cardinals with right wing hardliners, so there's only so much Frankie can do until he appoints younger and more moderate Cardinals?
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  24. #5274
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by santasutt View Post
    Vague rhetoric that has sent massive shockwaves throughout the rank and file of the Catholic Church.

    Unless they assassinate him soon, I believe we will see a gradual rollout of reforms spearheaded by Pope Francis.

    On the table: homosexuality, pre marital sex and contraception, women priests, married priests, etc.

    The October Synod of Bishops will foreshadow what's in store.
    Not trolling, honestly want to know more about what you're saying:
    Can you elaborate or point to some evidence of the massive shockwaves? Has anybody in the Catholic church begun doing anything differently because of some interviews where Frank made a few comments about how the Church is obsessed with dogma and it's not his job to judge honest gays and non-believers.

    I understand that the Catholic church doesn't change overnight, but I'm extremely skeptical of what's actually "on the table". My biggest beef with the catholic church is its propaganda about contraception in Africa and it's tacit support of the rampant homophobia there. If they managed to make some tangible change on that front I might actually believe there's a chance anything else he says isn't bullshit, but so far I see no reason to believe he's not just blowing smoke, and I have no reason to believe his words actually make anyone behave or even think differently.



    Quote Originally Posted by Miroir Noir View Post
    I'm far from an expert in the politics of the Catholic Church. Far. But isn't part of the problem that JPII and Benedict loaded up the College of Cardinals with right wing hardliners, so there's only so much Frankie can do until he appoints younger and more moderate Cardinals?
    Sounds like a brilliant strategy to maintain the status quo while raking in the PR from a popular figurehead.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 01-28-2014 at 11:19 AM.

  25. #5275
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    I think this is a tad unfair. The "your" in this particular context isn't necessarily meant to be possessive or objectify a family member (although granted that SOME may use it that way). You may perceive it that way because the fact of the matter is it's typically women that are victims of rape. Many probably use only make the issue less abstract, as an appeal to your love for your particular family members, not necessarily your ownership of them. If they asked "What if it was A mother, or A sister" it wouldn't have the same effect. If it were 35 years ago and someone was speaking out against the draft and said "what if it were YOUR brother or YOUR husband", would that sound like misandry?
    My issue is that women's identity tends to -- in public and political discourse - primarily be viewed through the lens of being a something to someone else first, and an autonomous being second. Of course "what if it was A mother" isn't as effective, I wish it wasn't that delineation the begin with. I'd like to see us get to a place where it's "That's a human being."

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  26. #5276
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    My issue is that women's identity tends to -- in public and political discourse - primarily be viewed through the lens of being a something to someone else first, and an autonomous being second. Of course "what if it was A mother" isn't as effective, I wish it wasn't that delineation the begin with. I'd like to see us get to a place where it's "That's a human being."
    I totally agree with what you're saying in general, but I don't feel that this is necessarilywhat's going on in the rape discussion, at least for most men. It is possible for men to be genuinely concerned about rape as a human problem and not just in the context of protecting their possessions. I just think it's important to give men the benefit of the doubt until they demonstrate conclusively they're incapable of it.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 01-28-2014 at 11:46 AM.

  27. #5277
    Member santasutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miroir Noir View Post
    I'm far from an expert in the politics of the Catholic Church. Far. But isn't part of the problem that JPII and Benedict loaded up the College of Cardinals with right wing hardliners, so there's only so much Frankie can do until he appoints younger and more moderate Cardinals?
    ANALYSIS: Pope Francis’ cardinals point the way to Catholicism’s future


    By David Gibson | Religion News Service, Published: January 13

    In naming his first batch of new cardinals on Sunday (Jan. 12), Pope Francis made some surprising choices that largely confirmed the characteristics he wants in the Catholic Church he leads: a greater focus on the poor, a bigger voice for the Global South and a reduced emphasis on the traditional hierarchical perks.

    True to form, Francis wrote each of the new cardinals and stressed that the new title “does not imply promotion.” He asked them to refrain “from any expression of worldliness or from any form of celebration contrary to the evangelical spirit of austerity, sobriety and poverty.”


    Some had expected Francis to leave his mark by pushing well beyond the ceiling of 120 cardinals under the age of 80 who are eligible to vote in a conclave.

    (Cardinals who turn 80 no longer have a vote, and Francis also named three cardinals 80 and older as a kind of Catholic version of a lifetime achievement award.)

    Instead, he distributed 16 new red hats — just two more than the 14 current vacancies — to bishops in unexpected places, such as Haiti and Burkina Faso, among the world’s poorest nations, as well as South Korea and the Philippines, a second for that island nation.

    Five of the new electors are from Latin America, boosting representation in the College of Cardinals from the pope’s home continent by a third, including Francis’ own successor in Buenos Aires, Archbishop Mario Poli.

    Four of the new “princes of the church” will be from the Roman Curia, the papal bureaucracy that has been dogged by scandal and dysfunction in recent years, and three of them are Italian. But those three are also his hand-picked aides, and Francis shocked traditional sensibilities by declining to give red hats to the traditional “cardinalatial” sees of Venice and Turin.

    “Under Francis, we are in a period when old schemes of ecclesial power and authority, and promotion, are being set aside in favor of a new emphasis on pastoral care in support of the marginalized and the suffering,” wrote Robert Moynihan, editor of Inside the Vatican magazine.

    The pope instead will give a red hat to the archbishop of Perugia, the first cardinal for the small hilltop town in the central Umbria region of Italy since the late 1800s. The reason: Archbishop Gualtiero Bassetti has a reputation as a pastoral churchman — “a figure said to more accurately reflect Francis’ identikit of a shepherd with the ‘smell of the sheep,’” as blogger Rocco Palmo put it.

    Canada will get one new cardinal — Archbishop Gerald C. Lacroix of Quebec — but the U.S., which has a full complement of cardinals, was shut out for the first time since John Paul II included no Americans in his first picks in 1979.


    All told, 12 of the 16 new voting-age cardinals are from different countries around the world and virtually every region: two from Europe, two from North and Central America, three from South America, two from Africa, and two from Asia.

    As Vatican-watcher John Thavis put it, this first round of appointments was a geographic shift “but no earthquake.” Francis did not raise the number of voting-age cardinals to dilute the influence of the Curia or Europe, nor did he name lay people as cardinals or announce a new role for the College of Cardinals.

    “The fact that he chose not to make such radical changes reflects several factors,” Thavis wrote. “First, Francis probably did not want to be seen as revamping the very institution that elected him only 10 months ago. If deeper changes are needed, they can easily come later in his pontificate.

    “Second, he may be convinced that a shift toward more pastoral leaders and fewer bureaucrats in the College of Cardinals is something that can be accomplished gradually. Over the next five years, he will have an opportunity to name at least 40 additional cardinals.”

    Finally, Thavis said it may be that Francis doesn’t see the cardinals as the key to reforming the church.

    The cardinals’ main duty for now is to elect a new pope, and Francis may want to focus on other means to promote a more collaborative church, such as calling a wider range of bishops and other church leaders together in regular synods, or meetings, in Rome to discuss challenges and changes.

    Francis’ picks on Sunday did signal that he not only wants pastoral leaders for the church but he also wants men who bring a moderate, less doctrinaire and less flamboyant approach to ministry — in effect, prelates more in line with his own style.

    This shift in style was also seen in his decision to name British Archbishop Vincent Nichols of Westminster a cardinal and not to give a red hat to a number of eligible “culture warrior” types, such as Archbishop Andre-Joseph Leonard of Belgium or even Archbishop William Lori of Baltimore.

    Also interesting were Francis’ choices among the “honorary” cardinals he named — three men 80 or older who would not be able to vote in a conclave. Such choices are a way that popes telegraph the kind of church they hope to shape.

    Among the three is 98-year-old Archbishop Loris Capovilla, a revered figure in progressive circles who was the secretary to Pope John XXIII, who died in 1963 after launching the modernizing Second Vatican Council. Francis will canonize “Good Pope John” in April.

    Then again, left off the list was Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, who has been a powerful voice for combating clergy sexual abuse. Victims’ advocates lamented his absence.

    But there are indications that Francis may prefer to create cardinals in small, regular batches rather than doing so every two or three years in a grand ceremony. So the next flock could be sighted sooner rather than later.

    When the new cardinals receive their red hats at the Feb. 22 consistory it will bring the total number of cardinals to 218 and the number of cardinals under age 80 — and therefore eligible to vote in a conclave — to 122; that number will drop to 120 in March when two current cardinals turn 80.
    Quote Originally Posted by MotorAve View Post
    Careful, while the threats are amusingly clueless, I could probably have this whole board shut down with one phone call.

  28. #5278
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Interesting. Thanks for posting.

    I thought the cardinals had more power than voting, and it's interesting to learn that the Catholic church acknowledges that old dudes can lose their marbles. I'd love to hear the official reasoning for the 80 yr old rule.

  29. #5279
    Pedley Rocks JustSteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    Impotence?

  30. #5280
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

    The College of Cardinals are also papal advisers. And of course they remain Archbishops and whatnot in their homes. But yes, their only official powers are during papal vacancies including voting for new popes.

    The 80 year old limit only came about around 1970 under Pope Paul VI.

    His successor John Paul II wrote

    In the present historical circumstances, the universality of the Church is sufficiently expressed by the College of one hundred and twenty electors, made up of Cardinals coming from all parts of the world and from very different cultures. I therefore confirm that this is to be the maximum number of Cardinal electors, while at the same time indicating that it is in no way meant as a sign of less respect that the provision laid down by my predecessor Pope Paul VI has been retained, namely, that those Cardinals who celebrate their eightieth birthday before the day when the Apostolic See becomes vacant do not take part in the election. The reason for this provision is the desire not to add to the weight of such venerable age the further burden of responsibility for choosing the one who will have to lead Christ's flock in ways adapted to the needs of the times. This does not however mean that the Cardinals over eighty years of age cannot take part in the preparatory meetings of the Conclave, in conformity with the norms set forth below. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, and especially during the election of the Supreme Pontiff, they in particular should lead the People of God assembled in the Patriarchal Basilicas of Rome and in other churches in the Dioceses throughout the world, supporting the work of the electors with fervent prayers and supplications to the Holy Spirit and imploring for them the light needed to make their choice before God alone and with concern only for the "salvation of souls, which in the Church must always be the supreme law".
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    I feel like dad-rock wouldn't get so bad of a rep if we called it pop-rock

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