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Thread: The Illegal Immigration Thread

  1. #181
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    I agree with Mark here. Arpaio's office already checks immigration status for people they arrest; if that were the only thing this bill did then it wouldn't be necessary. The concern is that cops will be stopping hispanic-looking people and asking for their papers at will.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  2. #182
    Coachella Junkie PlayaDelWes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Now passed by the Arizona House and awaiting Senate approval, the amendments change the wording that gave rise to accusations of racial profiling. The amended version would read:

    “A law enforcement official or agency … may not solely consider race, color or national origin” in establishing reasonable suspicion that someone is in the country illegally.
    The intent is to eliminate any consideration of race or ethnicity in developing reasonable suspicion of illegality. The amendment gives no direction about what law enforcement can or should consider in making such determinations.

    The second significant change does away with the “any lawful contact” language and replaces it with,

    “lawful stop, detention or arrest”.

  3. #183
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Yeah, I may've been getting ahead of myself but HB 2162c is what I was on about (and what Wes is on about)

    The version that was signed said that "any lawful contact" could initiate a stop and I feared that that would be interpreted broadly... but a new bill (HB 2162, not yet signed, as far as I can tell) will amend that to read "lawful stop, detention or arrest... in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state"... meaning only if they are stopping you for something else does anything come into play.

    This new bill also adds "A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not consider race, color or national origin in the enforcement of this section except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution"... which while that doesn't convince me nothing untoward will happen is a good step, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  4. #184
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    When an alien lives with you in your land, do not ill-treat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  5. #185
    Member HowToDisappear's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    We've camped a lot over the years in our local Anza-Borrego desert. The Border Patrol has always had a small, watchful, visible presence in the area in which we like to camp. That presence has evolved from BP car parked at the side of the road, to nowadays an armed encampment on S2. Multiple officers in camo, flak jackets and assault rifles(!) stop your car, stick their heads in the driver's side window and demand to know citizenship and where you are going. They're not a friendly bunch. I'm Eurasian. My appearance/ethnicity is very ambiguous. I'm often thought to be Mexican/Filipino/Native American/Russian/Godknowswhat.

    Last winter, we camped with the girls, and they looked me over HARD when I said I was a US citizen, and demanded to know where I was born, then saw my brown-haired, brown-eyed daughters in the back, and demanded info about them as well. They were completely blown away, as this was their first encounter with the new, improved BP. These stops flabbergast and unnerve me every single time. I still can't get over how we can be on a family camp out, in the middle of a county in which we were all born and raised, and be questioned about our intentions/right to be there. And this is only in one small, isolated place. It's never a good feeling. I have great sympathy for anyone in AZ of ethnicity, ambiguous or otherwise, legal or non, who fears this could be a daily occurrence, from any peace officer, anywhere in the state.
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    See that guy in the background talking loudly about crab cakes? That's you.

  6. #186
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    So, this just happened. I saw a parade of marked Sheriff's SUV's and unmarked cars flying by on the shoulder around 4:45PM today. I'm guessing they were heading to this.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/30/...y.shot/?hpt=T1

    Here's part of the story.

    (CNN) -- A sheriff's deputy in central Arizona was shot Friday afternoon by a suspected drug trafficker, authorities said.
    The Pinal County deputy, who was not immediately identified, contacted authorities after being wounded in the desert, saying he had been shot by an illegal immigrant with an AK-47, said Lt. Tammy Villar, a sheriff's spokeswoman.
    The deputy radioed that he had encountered five men, some wielding long guns and handguns, and said they were carrying a large amount of marijuana.
    At one point the deputy lost radio contact with authorities, leading to a search by foot and by air for him and the shooter, according to CNN affiliate KNXV. Video from the scene shows that the deputy was located while sitting in desert brush, surrounded by cactus. He was able to walk to a helicopter that airlifted him to a hospital.

  7. #187
    Rover canexplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    When an alien lives with you in your land, do not ill-treat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt.
    Yep TomAz: Listen to him, or at least hear the reverb ..... Did you guys also read where they passed or are passing a bill where there can't be any more more "ethnic" classes taught, and the bigger issue: If you have an "ethnic" accent, you can no longer teach in school there ... That's too bad, if Einstein were still around, he couldn't teach in an Az school ...
    Have Another Hit Of Colorado Sunshine

  8. #188
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    I did read that today Ron.

    Here's a bit more about that.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._WSJ_US_News_5

    The meat of the story.

    The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English.

    State education officials say the move is intended to ensure that students with limited English have teachers who speak the language flawlessly. But some school principals and administrators say the department is imposing arbitrary fluency standards that could undermine students by thinning the ranks of experienced educators.
    Honestly, it's probably a good idea to have these teachers at least be able to speak clearly and be understandable. Of course it will arbitrary standards. What other standards would they be able to go by?
    Last edited by faxman75; 04-30-2010 at 07:37 PM.

  9. #189
    Rover canexplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    I could never be a teacher there. "Hey what's up dudes?" Would be how I would greet a class

    Have you ever been to Boston ... or Mobile Ala ...
    Have Another Hit Of Colorado Sunshine

  10. #190
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  11. #191
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by faxman75 View Post
    I did read that today Ron.

    Here's a bit more about that.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._WSJ_US_News_5

    The meat of the story.



    Honestly, it's probably a good idea to have these teachers at least be able to speak clearly and be understandable. Of course it will arbitrary standards. What other standards would they be able to go by?
    What probably is happening is that such teachers are speaking Spanish to the kids. Spanish is illegal, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  12. #192
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gaypalmsprings View Post
    No but you look really stupid.

    What's the issue with getting here legally? Seriously? Is it that it takes a long time? So that means we should just not have a process at all. Go to another country, decide to just live there, and see what happens.

  13. #193
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    It's time, money and the avenues to make it happen. Mexicans don't have money and the immigration process is costly.

    I don't have an exact amount but you are easily looking at a grand depending on how many forms you have to file. It also takes a long time.

  14. #194
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    It costs 5 grand to come to Palm Springs via a coyote.
    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  15. #195
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    What would engaged have to do with anything? Anyone can say they are engaged. What does "can't get the paperwork through" mean? There is a process.

  16. #196
    Milkshake suprefan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by faxman75 View Post

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._WSJ_US_News_5


    Honestly, it's probably a good idea to have these teachers at least be able to speak clearly and be understandable. Of course it will arbitrary standards. What other standards would they be able to go by?


    Go teach it yourself if youre english is just perfect ok?



    edit: my response to you, Mark, will be this: ''Go find caucasian teachers who can teach the language properly so then school districts feel better about the image they are portraying.'' If you actually have a problem with somebody of another ethnicity that is trying to contribute to society by wanting to teach, you got some fucking issues.
    Last edited by suprefan; 05-01-2010 at 12:53 PM.

  17. #197
    Coachella Junkie malcolmjamalawesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    This thread has the worst "appears facially to be informative" to "actually informative" ratio I've ever seen. Many of you are dealing with concepts you have no business attempting to grapple with.
    Quote Originally Posted by ruetheday View Post
    I don't fucking care. I don't even know who the hell Dave Wang is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devin the Dude View Post
    you used to be that guy that just Dave Wang's everybody. that guy. he's gone now, and whoever you really are showed up, and that was utter disappointment.

  18. #198
    Milkshake suprefan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Tell that to Ron and Mark.

  19. #199
    old school JebusLives's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    I haven't been keeping up in this one. Is Ron pretending to be a tolerant liberal on this issue, or is he still mad about the proximity of the mexican food aisle?
    Last edited by JebusLives; 05-02-2010 at 07:37 AM.

  20. #200
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  21. #201
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by suprefan View Post
    Go teach it yourself if youre english is just perfect ok?
    This made me lol

    edit: my response to you, Mark, will be this: ''Go find caucasian teachers who can teach the language properly so then school districts feel better about the image they are portraying.'' If you actually have a problem with somebody of another ethnicity that is trying to contribute to society by wanting to teach, you got some fucking issues.
    Who are you quoting yourself? lol It has nothing to do with ethnicity or finding only Caucasian teachers. I know plenty of people of every ethnicity that can speak clearly. Now your last comment is the best. No matter how much of a marble mouth or grammatical idiot someone is, the schools should look the other way because they are trying to contribute to society and want to teach?

    This is specifically in cases of students who are still learning English, did you read that part? If you're still learning the language why would it be terrible to have someone who speaks it and understands it best teaching it?

  22. #202
    old school Bud Luster's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Militarize the border.

  23. #203
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default "Illegal Immigration" is an oxymoron. "Immigration" is necessarily legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    Yeah, I may've been getting ahead of myself but HB 2162c is what I was on about (and what Wes is on about)

    The version that was signed said that "any lawful contact" could initiate a stop and I feared that that would be interpreted broadly... but a new bill (HB 2162, not yet signed, as far as I can tell) will amend that to read "lawful stop, detention or arrest... in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state"... meaning only if they are stopping you for something else does anything come into play.

    This new bill also adds "A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not consider race, color or national origin in the enforcement of this section except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution"... which while that doesn't convince me nothing untoward will happen is a good step, too.
    So this passed. HB 2162 was signed by Governor Brewer on Friday.

    Which means that this:

    Quote Originally Posted by HowToDisappear View Post
    I have great sympathy for anyone in AZ of ethnicity, ambiguous or otherwise, legal or non, who fears this could be a daily occurrence, from any peace officer, anywhere in the state.
    should no longer be a fear. Someone has to be stopped for breaking an unrelated law to be questioned.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  24. #204
    Coachella Junkie malcolmjamalawesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Am I wrong, or is mountmccabe a consistently intelligent poster?
    Quote Originally Posted by ruetheday View Post
    I don't fucking care. I don't even know who the hell Dave Wang is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devin the Dude View Post
    you used to be that guy that just Dave Wang's everybody. that guy. he's gone now, and whoever you really are showed up, and that was utter disappointment.

  25. #205
    old school Somewhat Damaged's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    You're not wrong. He's one of the beacons of hope on this board.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    "Soon they'll hear my words," he thought, "and they will know that roboto's side-splitting reign of ha-has has begun."

  26. #206
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhat Damaged View Post
    You're not wrong. He's one of the beacons of hope on this board.
    Or is that bacon of hope?

    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  27. #207
    Coachella Junkie malcolmjamalawesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    GPS with the fucking pun ftw
    Quote Originally Posted by ruetheday View Post
    I don't fucking care. I don't even know who the hell Dave Wang is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devin the Dude View Post
    you used to be that guy that just Dave Wang's everybody. that guy. he's gone now, and whoever you really are showed up, and that was utter disappointment.

  28. #208
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    We should take the changes of the law the governor signed on Friday to be a small victory. Without the public outcry and the protests would these changes have been made?

    Instead many are still screaming foul and saying the changes actually broaden the scope by allowing cops who issue citations for city laws like barking dogs or open container laws to also verify citizenship. My problem is with the potential of breaking up families where the parents are illegal and the kids aren't. We all can agree the conditions in Mexico aren't favorable and many are coming here for a better life, so stealing that better life from a child who was born on this soil and a full natural born citizen according to the constitution would be dangerous. When the federal government stops sitting on its hands with this issue, I expect there will be a movement to change that article of the constitution as well. I just think any new city and state laws regarding illegal immigration aren't going to be very useful until we get the border issue resolved.

  29. #209
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    This is interesting. Between 1994-2004 illegal immigration doubled but over the same period of time crime has dropped significantly?

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ce-mexico.html

    While the nation's illegal-immigrant population doubled from 1994 to 2004, according to federal records, the violent-crime rate declined 35 percent.

  30. #210
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Illegal Immigration Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by marooko View Post
    No but you look really stupid.

    What's the issue with getting here legally? Seriously? Is it that it takes a long time? So that means we should just not have a process at all. Go to another country, decide to just live there, and see what happens.
    I worked at an immigration law firm for awhile: The process is pretty much broken. We dealt solely with people who were getting in either because they were married to a US Citizen or were actually employed in the US. Celebrities would get their papers within a year. We had hispanic clientele who had filed their cases up to 20 years prior and had made no progress because there are so many people filing. And, with those cases, they have to make periodic payments to update their status and renew their temporary alien cards. One month without payment, they become illegal aliens, and can lose their place that they've held for decades. So, yeah, it's more than just a small issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

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