Sopranos Spinoff...Hypothetically of course

[shotglass75]

This is all in good fun but if for some god unknown reason they were to do a spin off of the Sopranos (I know they won't and I wouldn't want them to) but if they were...would you rather see a spin off of A.J. or Christopher?

[jackstraw94086]

AJ's boring and a worthless actor, and Chris will be dead.

[shotglass75]

you are missing the point. but thanks for playing.

[TomAz]

monkey

[SojuGorae]

I'd tune in to a Paulie Walnuts spin-off.

It'll just be a day in the life of type show where he gets into petty fights that end in homicides everywhere he goes.

[shotglass75]

I'd tune in to a Paulie Walnuts spin-off.

It'll just be a day in the life of type show where he gets into petty fights that end in homicides everywhere he goes.

Actually, that's brilliant. "In tonights episode someone spits gum out on the street and Paulie steps in it. The muthafucka never knew what hit him." How f*cking funny would that be?

[jackstraw94086]

you are missing the point. but thanks for playing.

no. you missed you're own point. A) Chris can't be spun off even hypothetically because him dying is part of the sopranos story, and B) Chris is the heir apparent anyway, a central figure. It wouldn't be a spinoff, it would just be the sopranos without Tony.

And the very idea of AJ spin off is just retarded in the first place.


But thanks for playing.

[mob roulette]

agree with jack totally. four words i never thought i'd type.

[shotglass75]

no. you missed you're own point. A) Chris can't be spun off even hypothetically because him dying is part of the sopranos story, and B) Chris is the heir apparent anyway, a central figure. It wouldn't be a spinoff, it would just be the sopranos without Tony.

And the very idea of AJ spin off is just retarded in the first place.


But thanks for playing.

No you missed the point of my point First of all (and you might be right) but as of now, where is this information that you have that Chris is dying? Do you work for the show and have insider information? And the idea of an AJ spin off is yes...well...retarded...but what I was just saying is that I like AJ's character. His confusion of how the business actually works and his rebellious attitude towards pretty much everything is interesting in my opinion. When he swore he was gonna kill Uncle June last season while Tony was unconcious, I got chills just envisioning what it would be like if that actually went down. I wish that he actually did it because that storyline would have been quite interesting. I would like to see his rise as the Bosses kid within the business as a player. How would he be treated? If he fucked up royally, what would happen? I guess 'Spin-off" wasn't the right term. maybe other avenues that the show could go fits better.

On another note, I am always entertained at how everyone is so on edge on these boards.

[TomAz]

monkey.

[shotglass75]

Damn Right!!!!

[thelastgreatman]

HBO actually was secretly talking about the possibilities of a Christopher spinoff where he went out to LA to do movie shit, but this was a couple seasons ago.

[NAcademy93]

LMAO at Shitglass getting owned on his own thread. Not much has changed around here I see.

[shotglass75]

HBO actually was secretly talking about the possibilities of a Christopher spinoff where he went out to LA to do movie shit, but this was a couple seasons ago.

I heard about that actually. I really don't think he'll be killed. It would be too predictable. The audience has been saying that for years and if they did it, it wouldn't have that much of an impact.

[xxxxxxxxxx]

too bad vito is dead....perfect spinoff character.

[jackstraw94086]

I heard about that actually. I really don't think he'll be killed. It would be too predictable. The audience has been saying that for years and if they did it, it wouldn't have that much of an impact.

This is the last season. It doesn't matter what who's been saying for years.
The final season is where loose ends get tied up, the popular characters that carried the series can finally be destroyed in a flourish and a last gasp for ratings.

I don't know for 100% certain that Chris is going to die, but that's what the prevailing winds tell of, and it just makes sense. The last few seasons have been relatively boring. There has to be some finality to it. I know about the theory that the boring aspect of the Sopranos is intentional and supposed to add realism to it, but I don't buy it. They have to spice things up if they want to seal their legacy. i believe heads will roll this season. Chris will get killed and Silvio will betray him. I'd say there's an outside shot that the russians will have something to do with it too. The guy chris and paulie lost in the woods a couple seasons ago was the russian boss' best friend.

And I don't see the "predictable" thing as being an argument against Chris dying. Of course it's predictable, the greatest stories generally are. Why do people bother going to see another remake of Hamlet? Are they hoping he'll will survive this time? There's no way the sopranos gets a happy ending. Even Mario Puzo eventually conceded that a good mob story has to have a tragic ending.

[shotglass75]

maybe it's all a dream ala "Newheart" or maybe Christopher is actually narrating his screenplay to execs about a mob boss who lives in Jersey trying to balance his family life and mobster life and goes to therapy. Sounds the most logical

[thelastgreatman]

And I don't see the "predictable" thing as being an argument against Chris dying. Of course it's predictable, the greatest stories generally are.

The greatest stories are generally predictable? How does that follow? If the audience knows what's going to happen it's inherintly less powerful. Your example of Hamlet does not apply--going to see Hamlet again when it's a well known story is not the same as it being predictable. Predictable would indicate that without having knowledge of what was going to transpire the audience can still discern what eventually does happen. People go to see Hamlet to see things they absolutely know are going to happen, predicting is an impossibility from a semantic perspective.

[jackstraw94086]

I'm not giving people credit for "predicting" what's going to happen in Hamlet. Don't be absurd.

it's a "tragedy". You don't have to have seen it before to know how it's going to end. I only picked Hamlet as a popular example, but anyone with half a brain knows how it's going to end. The main characters at the very least are fucked. Back off the razor sharp logic regarding your foreknowledge of how Hamlet ends for a moment and realize that in just about every tragedy there is the main character is dead or all his/her friends are. Yet people, knowing full well what happens in a tragedy, still go to see them. Why?

and btw I'm only assuming it will be, to a large degree, a tragic ending because the alternative would be absurd. They would destroy their legacy with a half-assed resolution to all the conflict that's grown between between NY and NJ and the ensuing power struggle between johnny and phil.

[thelastgreatman]

I'm not giving people credit for "predicting" what's going to happen in Hamlet. Don't be absurd.

it's a "tragedy". You don't have to have seen it before to know how it's going to end. I only picked Hamlet as a popular example, but anyone with half a brain knows how it's going to end. The main characters at the very least are fucked. Back off the razor sharp logic regarding your foreknowledge of how Hamlet ends for a moment and realize that in just about every tragedy there is the main character is dead or all his/her friends are. Yet people, knowing full well what happens in a tragedy, still go to see them. Why?

and btw I'm only assuming it will be, to a large degree, a tragic ending because the alternative would be absurd. They would destroy their legacy with a half-assed resolution to all the conflict that's grown between between NY and NJ and the ensuing power struggle between johnny and phil.

It will end with a crafty balance of tragedy and happy. They're not going to kill Tony and I'd bet a 50 that Christopher survives. Paulie's done for, possibly Sylvio too.

Also, you're automatically ascribing "tragedy" to The Sopranos in the Shakespearean sense, but there are plenty of mob movies where most of the main characters are still alive at the end, Godfather and Goodfellas being easy examples. Some definitely have to die, and they'll have to matter, which does kinda make Chris a likely target but for some reason I suspect that at the end of it all it's going to be focused on Tony's biological family, and that there'll be a feeling like that scene in Artie's restaurant at the end of the first season, just without some of the satellite characters.

[jackstraw94086]

I already told you why I believe it will be a tragedy (and concept of tragedy existed always, it has nothing to do with "shakespearean sense"). Tony may survive and him and his family may retire and drift away into obscurity, but he's only one of the main characters. The show has been building to Chris' eventual ascension and Tony loves him like a son, to the point of excusing him for shit that anyone else would have been killed for. chris' death will destroy him and probably break his spirit to the point where he can tolerate retirement.

The Sopranos will have a tragic ending.

[thelastgreatman]

I already told you why I believe it will be a tragedy (and concept of tragedy existed always, it has nothing to do with "shakespearean sense"). Tony may survive and him and his family may retire and drift away into obscurity, but he's only one of the main characters. The show has been building to Chris' eventual ascension and Tony loves him like a son, to the point of excusing him for shit that anyone else would have been killed for. chris' death will destroy him and probably break his spirit to the point where he can tolerate retirement.

The Sopranos will have a tragic ending.

Concept of "tragedy" dates back to the Greeks, I don't know about "always." And the Greeks and Shakespeare used very similar models for their stories. It'll have a half-tragic ending, like any good ending. There'll be a silver lining, and I guarantee the final scene is a beautiful and fairly upbeat note.

[mob roulette]

the silver lining is paulie walks. if it's a tragedy in the sense of a cautionary tale, very few escape unscathed. see "the departed" for ancilliary evidence of this fact.

i hope janice sings after getting pinched and someone whacks her on principle alone. most. hated. character. ever.

[jackstraw94086]

Concept of "tragedy" dates back to the Greeks, I don't know about "always." And the Greeks and Shakespeare used very similar models for their stories. It'll have a half-tragic ending, like any good ending. There'll be a silver lining, and I guarantee the final scene is a beautiful and fairly upbeat note.

the greeks didn't invent tragedy. That's like saying the greeks invented homosexuality. Just because they were the first to write it down doesn't mean it didn't exist before them.

Tragedy as a "concept" and people's fascination with it has always been. Come on.

[thelastgreatman]

the greeks didn't invent tragedy. That's like saying the greeks invented homosexuality. Just because they were the first to write it down doesn't mean it didn't exist before them.

Tragedy as a "concept" and people's fascination with it has always been. Come on.

We're talking about tragedy as a genre.

[jackstraw94086]

We're talking about tragedy as a genre.

you're splitting hairs. (and you did say "concept"). anyway, it doesn't matter. the human reaction to tragedy always existed just as gravity existed before an apple fell on Newton's head. i don't care if the greeks were the first to call it a genre.

The soprano's will end in tragedy, I don't care if it doesn't conform to a greek or shakespearean template.

[jackstraw94086]

We're talking about tragedy as a genre.

you're splitting hairs. (and you did say "concept"). anyway, it doesn't matter. the human reaction to tragedy always existed just gravity existed before an apple fell on Newton's head. i don't care if the greeks were the first to call it a genre.

The soprano's will end in tragedy. I don't care if it doesn't conform exactly to a greek or shakespearean template, the basic elements will be there.

[thelastgreatman]

you're splitting hairs. (and you did say "concept"). anyway, it doesn't matter. the human reaction to tragedy always existed just gravity existed before an apple fell on Newton's head. i don't care if the greeks were the first to call it a genre.

The soprano's will end in tragedy. I don't care if it doesn't conform exactly to a greek or shakespearean template, the basic elements will be there.

Right, all I'm saying is that there's different kinds of tragedy. There's the genre of tragedy, there's the concept, and there's also many different endings that can be called tragic. The biggest tragedy of Godfather 1, for example, isn't any of the deaths but Michael lying to his wife and then ushering her out. In Goodfellas, the tragic consequences are suburbia. The Sopranos in recent years have become exceptionally good at giving you what you don't expect. The ending will be at least half tragic, for sure, but they're kinda the masters of the bittersweet conclusion.

[jackstraw94086]

Right, all I'm saying is that there's different kinds of tragedy. There's the genre of tragedy, there's the concept, and there's also many different endings that can be called tragic. The biggest tragedy of Godfather 1, for example, isn't any of the deaths but Michael lying to his wife and then ushering her out. In Goodfellas, the tragic consequences are suburbia. The Sopranos in recent years have become exceptionally good at giving you what you don't expect. The ending will be at least half tragic, for sure, but they're kinda the masters of the bittersweet conclusion.

All I said was it would be tragic, and I mentioned very specifically how it would be. i didn't bring up the greeks or shakespeare. If you don't think Chris' death qualifies then that's just your opinion.

The end of Godfather 1 was not the end of the Godfather story, Puzo wasn't done yet. Godfather II was tragic, and III (although being a joke, was still Puzo's) was absolutely tragic. And Goodfellas absolutely did have a tragic ending, but in a screwball Scorsese way. That was far from a happy ending. Everyone's in jail and Ray Liotta is trapped in his own version of hell.

Tragedy doesn't necessarily mean tears, it generally means the plot resolves itself contrary to the protagonists' designs, in a bad way, and their efforts come to naught.

[thelastgreatman]

All I said was it would be tragic, and I mentioned very specifically how it would be. i didn't bring up the greeks or shakespeare. If you don't think Chris' death qualifies then that's just your opinion.

The end of Godfather 1 was not the end of the Godfather story, Puzo wasn't done yet. Godfather II was tragic, and III (although being a joke, was still Puzo's) was absolutely tragic. And Goodfellas absolutely did have a tragic ending, but in a screwball Scorsese way. That was far from a happy ending. Everyone's in jail and Ray Liotta is trapped in his own version of hell.

Tragedy doesn't necessarily mean tears, it generally means the plot resolves itself contrary to the protagonists' designs, in a bad way, and their efforts come to naught.

Why are you acting like I was saying Goodfellas didn't have a tragic ending? I'm the one that suggested it. We actually agree with each other for the most part, although I happen to think Christopher will stay alive, but we're both just talking out of our ass. Godfather 1's ending is tragic too, a far better tragedy than any of the other installments in my opinion, because it's the only one that truly resolves on itself in a just perfect juxtaposition of where the film started.

Whether or not Christopher will die is tricky because the conflict at the heart of the Sopranos has always been his family vs. The Family, which makes the fate of all his blood relatives tricky. Obviously, for Christopher to die would nicely hit tragedy on both sides of the two-family juxtaposition. At the same time, I feel like Chase is going to find a way to have Christopher be one of the only members of The Family who survives and gets to live on with the rest of his real family. That's just my instinct, though.

All that being said, we're not really arguing anymore. We both know what we were talking about, there was just a semantic issue. So I'd like to bail on this discussion now that we're more or less in agreement about everything except whether or not Chris will die, which is purely speculation anyway.