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Thread: Justified Murder: The Thread!

  1. #241
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgaretjax View Post
    The sex offender registry is undoubtedly unconstitutional.
    Truth

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    old school JebusLives's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by MissingPerson View Post
    Mostly, the serious crime rate has actually declined in the recent past. Dramatically so, in some years.

    Meanwhile, all that's actually increased is the perception of it.
    Its amazing how many times you can tell people this, and how many statistics you can throw at them showing it is so, and yet the public is still convinced that society is getting more violent.

    It doesn't help when the absolute #s of crimes are going up along with the population, so in a given news-hour they can cram more or more horrific incidents into the reporting. People will trust anecdotes over statistics any day.

    Curiously, the summer of Love (1969) was one of the most violent on record, at least in the US.
    Last edited by JebusLives; 11-02-2009 at 06:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by juloxx View Post
    Your stupid

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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    I like visual aids, but alas, any of the graphs proving the point are nigh on unreadable.

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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    I think it has more to do with the horrendousness of the crimes. I remember when I first moved to Phoenix with my kids 11 years ago. In a month period there was a woman who took her three kids out to the garage in blindfolds and then set them on fire, then the man who took his toddler daughter out to the desert lit her on fire, and several other horrible things that as a parent you can't begin to imagine.

    Also, having children does change your view a little I think. The thought of anyone harming your child brings out your more vengefull side. Like I said, I was born and raised in the Portland area, home of the tree hugging pot smokers. But having been through what I went through with my daughter and knowing that because of the "lack of evidence" the man was let free to go out and harm another child... It kills me everyday and it is 14 years later. And for the record, if I ever saw that man again, I would kill him myself.
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  5. #245
    Coachella Junkie MissingPerson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    I guess if we're going to take a detour into media coverage of bad news, I should post this.

    Skip the first bit, but from about 2 minutes onwards - particularly the last four minutes - is amazing stuff.

    Last edited by MissingPerson; 11-02-2009 at 10:21 AM.

  6. #246
    Beefy Soft Taco TommyboyUNM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    I'm sorry if any of you have been through horrible situations and were not aided much by the legal process. Nobody deserves to go through any of that. However, I don't feel as if those situations are the norms. They are unfortunate byproducts of a system that is largely designed to protect the innocent. A close to 100%, fool-proof system would require us to give up most of our rights. I'm talking about crazy things like having cameras on everyone 24 hours a day. Without outlandish things like that, you have to rely on evidence and witnesses. Sometimes guilty people get away with it and sometimes innocent people go to jail. It's the nature of the beast.

    Sometimes people lose me during arguments when they get too emotionally vested in it. I understand it's hard not to, but it's important to consider the larger scope of what you're talking about. Not to point worst-case scenarios or something that happened to you or a loved one that is not the norm.

    I'm glad a few of you mentioned the media's role in all of this. The 24-hour news cycle is largely to blame for this perception that the country is more violent. Sure, crime can tend to rise during a recession. That ties into the whole idea that poverty is one of the main catalysts for crime. But I think it's unfair to say that the judicial system's inadequacies are leading to a more violent society. These news channels have to fill time and have to be the first to report a potentially big story so their ratings will be higher than the competition. This leads to faulty journalism, lazy fact checking, and coverage of stories that don't deserve much coverage. The increase of violent crimes (if there is any) is not even close to proportional to the increase in coverage of violent crimes. I have to dig through some of my college journalism text, but there are statistics that show this.

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    Coachella Junkie psycobetabuckdown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENDOLL View Post
    One last time psycho, who do you think pays for that dudes life sentence? Did you bother to checkout the link I included? $90,000 per year to serve justice. I'm sorry but the motherfucxker had a chance at fair justice. And after 15 years he goes out and rapes and kills 6 more people? WTF?
    It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life, as has been said by a couple other people before.

    I've never used the word revenge in this thread. Prisons are not for revenge, my friend, but rehabilitation is offered. I don't think you have a clue as to what a prison is like, or what type of people are in prisons these days. But, I'm gonna accept your theory based upon your staement, "The punishment should fit the crime." Now, based on that, let's say your parents are sitting and watching TV in their own home one night. Without reason, someone breaks in through the front door and proceeds to shoot them both point blank before robbing them of whatever. Explain to me what kind of punishment justice should serve to this guy for his cold blooded murder of your family members...Maybe then I'll consider your point. How's that?
    You haven't used the word "revenge" but you are advocating state-sponsored revenge. I don't know what my experience with prison has to do with this.

    My "punishment should fit the crime" statement was in reference to your claim that someone who murders an innocent often walks free, and I was saying that almost never happens, because in the U.S., when someone takes an innocent's life he either goes to prison for life or is executed.

    So now, after you've been making emotion-based arguments, you're asking me to do the same by personalizing it. I'll bite: if my parents were murdered in cold blood I would be angry to the point of insanity probably. If I found the guy I would either a) reflect on my Christian upbringing and keep my cool or b) run him down with my car. In case b) I would deserve prison time. In case a), if a judge asked me what sentence I believe he deserves, I would 100% not change my mind - it would be life in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. I'm guessing you won't "consider my point" any more than you already have been.

    edit: btw, this is why the 2nd Amendment exists and I fully intend to own a gun once I have a family of my own.

    Maybe instead of us arguing over the death penalty, we need to discuss our criminal justice system and what should be chnaged to make it better for all?
    This would go beyond the questions posed by this thread but that could be useful. But for the record I don't think a better criminal justice system exists in the world, as flawed as ours is.
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    Member Archie Bunker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by psycobetabuckdown View Post
    It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life, as has been said by a couple other people before.
    This is a dumb argument used by anti-death-penalty activists for two reasons. First, the primary "cost" involved with the death penalty involves the expensive, complicated appeals process. This was put in place by the very people who oppose the death penalty in the first place, so we actually have people like you to thank for the higher cost of the death penalty!

    Second, the whole argument about money here is dumb. We do not run our penal system to make or save money. We run it so it best serves society. If "lowest cost" was really the goal of our penal system, we should simply set everyone free and never arrest another person -- bringing our cost down to $0! Of course, this would also bring chaos about our society. Cost should only play into the equation when it greatly affects the overall penal budget, which this issue doesn't. Death penalty or no death penalty, the overall effect on the penal budget is negligible.


    You haven't used the word "revenge" but you are advocating state-sponsored revenge. I don't know what my experience with prison has to do with this.
    This is another amazing argument I keep hearing from liberals, and it's incredibly fallacious.

    Some say, "Our penal system is for rehabilitation and public safety, not punishment."

    O RLY?

    While rehabilitation is a desirable result in some cases, it is not the primary reason for incarceration. This is the reason for varying lengths of prison sentences. The petty thief may get out in 30 days -- hardly enough time to rehabilitate anyone, and definitely not removing his "threat" from society for a meaningful length of time. The man guilty of second-degree murder might get out in 25 years -- a period of time far longer than needed for "rehabilitation". Furthermore, his danger to society would be about the same after 10 years of incarceration as 25 years. So why would he be serving the extra 15?

    Our penal system is definitely about punishment. Small crimes do small time, while big crimes do big time. The biggest crimes (first degree murder) result in the biggest penalty -- death (in some states).

    This all makes sense.

    You can say that the state doesn't have the right to take lives, but if that's true, why should it have the right to hold someone prisoner for life? Why should it have the right to hold someone prisoner for any period of time?

    In order to maintain a civilized society, we must have rules, and there must be consequences for breaking them. In the case of the death penalty, it is a fair consequence -- intentionally taking a life without justification means you do not deserve to have your life.

    Still don't agree with me? Do you believe that our penal system should never be for punishment? Consider this scenario:

    John has always wanted his next-door-neighbor, Melissa, but she has never been interested in him. Finally, one day he snaps when seeing her come home from work. He forces his way into her house, rapes her, and strangles her because he is afraid she will tell the police who committed the rape. John is eventually arrested and convicted, as he was careless and left various forms of indisputable evidence behind. His DNA matches the semen found inside of Melissa's body. He did it, and nobody doubts this.

    Before you consider what should happen to John, God himself comes down and talks to you. He tells you that the experience has completely changed John. If set free, John will lead a crime-free life from this point forward, and will never be a danger to anyone. God says that he can see the future, and that it's 100% certain this will occur if John is released.

    Now you know for certain that John will never again be a danger to society, and he is already rehabilitated without spending a day in jail. Knowing this, do you feel John should be set free? If not, wouldn't that mean you are supporting state punishment, since the goals of rehabilitation and safety have already been met?
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    Beefy Soft Taco TommyboyUNM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Archie, did any of us ever say that the penal system shouldn't be used for punishment? I don't remember reading that. Revenge and punishment are different. We're arguing degrees of punishment and you're making it seem like we're dismissing punishment all together.

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    Coachella Junkie MissingPerson's Avatar
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    Second, the whole argument about money here is dumb. We do not run our penal system to make or save money. We run it so it best serves society. If "lowest cost" was really the goal of our penal system, we should simply set everyone free and never arrest another person -- bringing our cost down to $0! Of course, this would also bring chaos about our society. Cost should only play into the equation when it greatly affects the overall penal budget, which this issue doesn't. Death penalty or no death penalty, the overall effect on the penal budget is negligible.
    I agree with this. It is, however, not anti-death penalty types who keep raising the issue - pro-death penalty types keep rabbitting on about how much they resent their tax dollars blah blah blah... which is the only reason it keeps coming up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    This is a dumb argument used by anti-death-penalty activists for two reasons. First, the primary "cost" involved with the death penalty involves the expensive, complicated appeals process. This was put in place by the very people who oppose the death penalty in the first place, so we actually have people like you to thank for the higher cost of the death penalty!
    Think about this. The lengthy appeals process is an attempt to try and reduce the number of innocent people put to death by the government of the nation. It doesn't entirely work - so long as there is a death penalty, there will be blameless people receiving it - but it's at least something. It's lengthy and it's costly but the alternative is to kill them all industrially and let God sort 'em out afterwards.

    Since we're all so giddy about disposing of our murderers, I'd have thought that we'd be equally enthusiastic about trying to make sure innocent people get ground up by the process.

    Telling.

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    Coachella Junkie psycobetabuckdown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    This is a dumb argument used by anti-death-penalty activists for two reasons. First, the primary "cost" involved with the death penalty involves the expensive, complicated appeals process. This was put in place by the very people who oppose the death penalty in the first place, so we actually have people like you to thank for the higher cost of the death penalty!
    The argument isn't what's dumb, but the appeals process is extremely dumb. I'm not an "activist" by any means - I just have an opinion, imagine that. And I certainly would never support complicating our judicial system any more than it already is. However, the argument is not dumb - it's simply true. It costs more.

    Second, the whole argument about money here is dumb. We do not run our penal system to make or save money. We run it so it best serves society. If "lowest cost" was really the goal of our penal system, we should simply set everyone free and never arrest another person -- bringing our cost down to $0! Of course, this would also bring chaos about our society. Cost should only play into the equation when it greatly affects the overall penal budget, which this issue doesn't. Death penalty or no death penalty, the overall effect on the penal budget is negligible.
    Agreed.


    This is another amazing argument I keep hearing from liberals, and it's incredibly fallacious.

    Some say, "Our penal system is for rehabilitation and public safety, not punishment."

    O RLY?
    I hope you're referring to Brokendoll. I'm definitely not a liberal and have been making the opposite argument with her.

    You can say that the state doesn't have the right to take lives, but if that's true, why should it have the right to hold someone prisoner for life? Why should it have the right to hold someone prisoner for any period of time?
    I don't think I said the state doesn't have the right. I am wary of using that word because people misinterpret it. But I suppose I believe NO ONE has the right to take anyone else's life, and this includes the state. In the case of war, the state has the right to use it only to defend life.

    Holding someone prisoner is, as you go on to say, the only way to maintain a civilized society - assuming the society is producing criminals.

    In the case of the death penalty, it is a fair consequence -- intentionally taking a life without justification means you do not deserve to have your life.
    I agree, except that while you may not deserve to have your life, that doesn't give anyone else the right to take it away. Society may deem a life sentence the closest equivalent to this - taking away your liberty.
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    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    The appeals process is not dumb.

    See the state of Illinois for the past 30 years for loads of mistakes in the trial process.
    http://www.truthinjustice.org/dphistory-IL.htm

    IMO the former Governor of Illinois made one of the most responsible decisions of any Governor at the time by putting a moratorium on the death penalty in the state of Illinois. Why is this a good idea? So we don't kill any more innocent people and there have been quite a few. If we as a society want to leave life and death up to judges then we sure as hell better make sure the system is full proof.

    Mr. Ryan is a Republican. Mr. Ryan unfortunately is also serving time in a medium security prison for giving contracts to friends and other corruption but that doesn't change how I feel about this brave decision.

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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    I vote to let Robocop sort them out
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by psycobetabuckdown View Post
    It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life, as has been said by a couple other people before.



    You haven't used the word "revenge" but you are advocating state-sponsored revenge. I don't know what my experience with prison has to do with this.

    My "punishment should fit the crime" statement was in reference to your claim that someone who murders an innocent often walks free, and I was saying that almost never happens, because in the U.S., when someone takes an innocent's life he either goes to prison for life or is executed.

    So now, after you've been making emotion-based arguments, you're asking me to do the same by personalizing it. I'll bite: if my parents were murdered in cold blood I would be angry to the point of insanity probably. If I found the guy I would either a) reflect on my Christian upbringing and keep my cool or b) run him down with my car. In case b) I would deserve prison time. In case a), if a judge asked me what sentence I believe he deserves, I would 100% not change my mind - it would be life in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. I'm guessing you won't "consider my point" any more than you already have been.edit: btw, this is why the 2nd Amendment exists and I fully intend to own a gun once I have a family of my own.



    This would go beyond the questions posed by this thread but that could be useful. But for the record I don't think a better criminal justice system exists in the world, as flawed as ours is.
    Okay, psycho, enlighten me to this "State Revenge" you're talking about. I may not give the state credit for their system of law enforcement and sentencing procedures, but I don't think they're stupid enough to break laws themselves in regards to using revenge as punishment. The pro-lifers must be those looking at this as revenge. Fuck, I don't think the prisoners themselves see their punishment as revenge, to be quite honest. They may admit to recieving their punishment because they took revenge themselves, but no, they don't look at their sentence as revenge, sorry. Where the fuck did you come up with that "State revenge" shit, anyway?
    And as for my statement involving those that walk free...guess what? It's true. Some do actually complete their sentence and go out those gates. Hell, on the day I was sentenced to those 8 years for a drug conviction, another gal was sentenced to 5 years for killing her brother inlaw! Guess what? We walked out of prison afew weeks apart from each other 2 1/2 years later! Doesn't make sense does it? Except consider this...I chose to fight my case with a trial because I was not guilty of the crime I was accused of, and she avoided a trial and bargained for a deal by admitting she killed the guy!

    The point I'm trying to make isn't in favor of executing all life term prisoners, only those that the obvious is in place. The state of the crime they committed, the additional life sentences given, and whether or not they're even eligible for parole. That's where those 25-life sentences come in. It means they are eligible...one day. But, the ones that have 3 life sentences and show absolutely no remorse? Sorry, I don't want to waste money supporting someone worthless to society. Worthless enough that they have no chance of ever seeing society again.

    As far as my emotionally based opinion VS personalizing it for you...That makes us more even in our argument. I can speak because I've been there, and by personalizing it for you, maybe you'll take an emotional viewpoint instead of some outsider who has no clue what they're really talking about. And, quite frankly, your comment about getting pounded in the ass in some federal prison? Only if it's a crime that was federally committed, not just any muder or capital punishment crime. That's where I can say you aren't fully aware of what you're talking about.
    And in regards to how you would handle it if the said innocent were your parents? Let's say you choose option (b) and run them over killing them with your car....That to me is revenge. But, how much time should you get for doing it? As long as you plan on basing anything I say on my emotions instead of perhaps my experience in witnessing first hand how fucked up our crminal justice system is, I'm gonna continue making it personal for you with hopes you'll understand from a different point of view other than just your own.
    Its like the Infinite Monkey Theorem, if you put X amount of monkeys in a room with a typewriter and ask them to give you Shakespeare 99% of them will fling their shit at you while the other 1% will masturbate in the corner.

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    Endearingly Dislikable RotationSlimWang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Just to wrap things up, does anyone think the state was justified in letting Brokendoll off the hook, or should the bitch have been snuffed?
    Quote Originally Posted by amyzzz View Post
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    [QUOTE=psycobetabuckdown;1400865]
    The argument isn't what's dumb, but the appeals process is extremely dumb. I'm not an "activist" by any means - I just have an opinion, imagine that. And I certainly would never support complicating our judicial system any more than it already is. However, the argument is not dumb - it's simply true. It costs more.
    Guess what? That dumb appeals process may be dumb, but it's done to support the comments made by the pro-lifers in regards to unfairly punshishing the innocent. (I believe someone mentioned, what if someone didn't kill a person but was accused of it.) And believe me when I say Appeals are costly. The last thing the state wants to do is deal with an appeal. They'd like to think the original descision was correct. When I mentioned the gal that took a deal and pled guilty to killing someone. The state gave her a break because she gave them a break. She didn't take the appeal offer and go for trial. Why? There was a very good chance she would have lost the trial and been sentenced to life. Now, toss that around for awhile...

    Every case is entitled to appeal the descision. Capitol Punishment cases automatically get an appeal offered to them. That means even some whack job who vehemently admits he killed and will kill again gets an appeal. That's where the state protects itself from possibly making a wrong call on a case.
    I hope you're referring to Brokendoll. I'm definitely not a liberal and have been making the opposite argument with her.
    A prison sentence IS NOT REVENGE. It IS PUNISHMENT. It can also be REHABILITATION in many cases. But, until the justice system takes note of changing times and seriousness of crimes VS sentences, this fucking thread will keep going in circles...just like the system.
    Its like the Infinite Monkey Theorem, if you put X amount of monkeys in a room with a typewriter and ask them to give you Shakespeare 99% of them will fling their shit at you while the other 1% will masturbate in the corner.

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    old school JebusLives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RotationSlimWang View Post
    Just to wrap things up, does anyone think the state was justified in letting Brokendoll off the hook, or should the bitch have been snuffed?
    Well, she clearly wasn't rehabilitated...
    Quote Originally Posted by juloxx View Post
    Your stupid

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    Quote Originally Posted by RotationSlimWang View Post
    Just to wrap things up, does anyone think the state was justified in letting Brokendoll off the hook, or should the bitch have been snuffed?
    Well she did get suffocated.....


    I kill me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RotatingLimpWang View Post
    Just to wrap things up, does anyone think the state was justified in letting Brokendoll off the hook, or should the bitch have been Suffacated?
    The bitch did get Suffacated..
    Obviously, Ya just don't get it.

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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by faxman75 View Post
    Well she did get suffocated.....
    I kill me.
    Okay that was kinda funny, faxman...Nothing worth killing yourself for, but I felt a smirk on my face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suffacated View Post
    The bitch did get Suffacated..
    Obviously, Ya just don't get it.
    'Scuse me, but the bitch is still breathing...

    Ah, the internet! Go searching for one thing and before you know it...Found a site giving details of the last meals that death row inmates have requested since like 1976 to the present. Of course there's more info on the link like special requests, extreme cases, and basic stats... I'm not posting it to prove any points,I just got sidetracked while enlightening myself with more knowledge and wanted to share.




    Okay, and I'm stoned.



    Check it out:
    http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm
    Its like the Infinite Monkey Theorem, if you put X amount of monkeys in a room with a typewriter and ask them to give you Shakespeare 99% of them will fling their shit at you while the other 1% will masturbate in the corner.

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    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENDOLL View Post
    Okay that was kinda funny, faxman...Nothing worth killing yourself for, but I felt a smirk on my face.
    You never watched Alf?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    Second, the whole argument about money here is dumb. We do not run our penal system to make or save money. We run it so it best serves society.
    Quote Originally Posted by MissingPerson View Post
    I agree with this. It is, however, not anti-death penalty types who keep raising the issue - pro-death penalty types keep rabbitting on about how much they resent their tax dollars blah blah blah... which is the only reason it keeps coming up.
    Quote Originally Posted by psycobetabuckdown View Post
    Agreed.
    Whoa, hold on--this is entirely incorrect. There is this little thing called the Prison-industrial Complex and for these corporations the number one concern is extracting as much profit out of the prison system as possible. It's hard to find solid number on the profits of the industry as a whole, but I could find some numbers for the Corrections Corporation of America, which is traded on the New York Stock Exchange by the way. They are the largest private corrections company in the United States and manage more than 60 facilities with a designed capacity of 85,000 beds. In 2008 their total revenue was $1.598 billion and their net income was $150.04 million. For corporations like these they get into the business to make money, not to do whatever best serves our society. Furthermore, Arizona is moving toward being the first state to put its death row into the hands of a corporation: http://rawstory.com/2009/10/arizona-...dustry-report/

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    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...e-prisons.aspx

    Instead, we may see them turn to private correction and detention facilities in greater numbers, like those run by Corrections Corp of America (NYSE: CXW), Cornell Companies (NYSE: CRN), Geo Group (NYSE: GEO), and G4S.

    With favorable industry demographics for the long term, analysts expect CCA and Cornell to grow by 11% and 12% per year over the next five years, respectively. They foresee Geo Group growing at a more robust 16% clip per year. This gives Geo Group a PEG ratio of 0.85, lower than the 1.52 for CCA and the 1.02 for Cornell. All three companies are well below the S&P 500's 2.1 average.

    These private jailers look tempting, particularly in relation to industry trends. Private prisons housed 7.8% of the country's 1.61 million incarcerated adults in federal and state prisons as of the middle of 2008, up from 7.4% in 2007, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. With the U.S. expecting more than 1.7 million men and women in prison by 2011 (a 13% jump from 2007, according to a study by the Pew Center on the States), the growing cost of those incarcerations may force states to increasingly turn to private companies. By outsourcing incarceration services, a government could reduce the cost of housing those prisoners by 10% to 20%.

  24. #264
    Member Archie Bunker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Privatizing the prison system is fine, as long as you don't provide them with any incentive to keep prisoners incarcerated. You also need plenty of oversight.

    Arizona is a disaster when it comes to government. They make mistake after mistake over there.

    Take a look at the Redflex speeding camera thing. They actually trust a private company to hand out automated speeding tickets, and the company gets paid PER TICKET written! Unbelievable.
    Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

  25. #265
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSwan View Post
    Whoa, hold on--this is entirely incorrect. There is this little thing called the Prison-industrial Complex and for these corporations the number one concern is extracting as much profit out of the prison system as possible. It's hard to find solid number on the profits of the industry as a whole, but I could find some numbers for the Corrections Corporation of America, which is traded on the New York Stock Exchange by the way. They are the largest private corrections company in the United States and manage more than 60 facilities with a designed capacity of 85,000 beds. In 2008 their total revenue was $1.598 billion and their net income was $150.04 million. For corporations like these they get into the business to make money, not to do whatever best serves our society. Furthermore, Arizona is moving toward being the first state to put its death row into the hands of a corporation: http://rawstory.com/2009/10/arizona-...dustry-report/
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  26. #266
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    They already have incentive to keep prisoners incarcerated and they can keep them incarcerated very subtly. All they need to do is move prisons away from being focused on rehabilitation, which is already the case anyway.

    Prison privatization will most likely take a similar route that military privatization did. Politicians will be hired into cushy jobs as C-Level Executives after their terms, and members of the Board of Directors of these corporations will become politicians.

    Corruption is already present:

    A study published in the Harvard Law Review was touted as an independent academic study of privatization. None of its boosters, however, mentioned that the author, in addition to being a graduate student at Harvard, is associated with the Reason Public Policy Institute, a division of the Reason Foundation whose purpose is to promote the privatization of public services.
    The presence of J. Michael Quinlan, the former head of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, among CCA's senior executives has surely helped the growth in its contracts with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, and the expectation of further expansion as more prisons for immigrants are planned.
    Charles Thomas, director of the supposedly neutral Private Prison Project of the University of Florida who was widely quoted as an expert on prison privatization throughout the 90s, served on the board of CCA and received several millions of dollars in consulting fees from them.
    http://www.alternet.org/story/17392/

  27. #267
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    Default Re: Justified Murder: The Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENDOLL View Post
    Okay, psycho, enlighten me to this "State Revenge" you're talking about. I may not give the state credit for their system of law enforcement and sentencing procedures, but I don't think they're stupid enough to break laws themselves in regards to using revenge as punishment. The pro-lifers must be those looking at this as revenge. Fuck, I don't think the prisoners themselves see their punishment as revenge, to be quite honest. They may admit to recieving their punishment because they took revenge themselves, but no, they don't look at their sentence as revenge, sorry. Where the fuck did you come up with that "State revenge" shit, anyway?
    None of this is relevant to what I thought we were talking about. I wasn't talking about the state breaking laws. I was saying that the law is wrong because the death penalty is revenge killing, which is not what justice is about. And you are supporting revenge killing. That's all.

    And as for my statement involving those that walk free...guess what? It's true. Some do actually complete their sentence and go out those gates.
    That's kind of the way prison works. I wasn't denying this.

    Hell, on the day I was sentenced to those 8 years for a drug conviction, another gal was sentenced to 5 years for killing her brother inlaw! Guess what? We walked out of prison afew weeks apart from each other 2 1/2 years later! Doesn't make sense does it? Except consider this...I chose to fight my case with a trial because I was not guilty of the crime I was accused of, and she avoided a trial and bargained for a deal by admitting she killed the guy!
    It would depend on the circumstance I guess. If it's cold-blooded first-degree murder, people don't tend to get out of jail in 2.5 years or ever. As usual, you're using extreme examples to make faulty points about the justice system.

    The point I'm trying to make isn't in favor of executing all life term prisoners, only those that the obvious is in place.
    Yep, you've made your point clear. Obviously, I disagree. But your argument about money is flawed, because it costs you more money as a taxpayer to kill the prisoner than keep him in jail. As Archie Bunker pointed out above, however, money isn't and shouldn't be what our justice system is about.

    As far as my emotionally based opinion VS personalizing it for you...That makes us more even in our argument. I can speak because I've been there, and by personalizing it for you, maybe you'll take an emotional viewpoint instead of some outsider who has no clue what they're really talking about.
    The fact that you're a criminal does not make you any more qualified than anyone else to opine about the justice system. You might be able to offer an interesting perspective, but that's it. I think you've even shown plenty of bias that makes your opinion far less valuable than others.

    And in regards to how you would handle it if the said innocent were your parents? Let's say you choose option (b) and run them over killing them with your car....That to me is revenge. But, how much time should you get for doing it? As long as you plan on basing anything I say on my emotions instead of perhaps my experience in witnessing first hand how fucked up our crminal justice system is, I'm gonna continue making it personal for you with hopes you'll understand from a different point of view other than just your own.
    You seem to be having trouble following this argument logically. You just tried personalizing the argument and I pointed out that my opinion wouldn't change at all. Personalizing the argument only works on people who are easily led and don't use reason. By arguing all your points emotionally, we can't have a level playing field because you'll never be objective and it's obvious you're unwilling to budge.
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