Justified Murder: The Thread!

[TomAz]

Patrick this thread was a noble attempt to provoke intelligent, thoughtful debate. Instead we get a bunch of barbarian wanna-bes for whom life is just one long mediocre sitcom episode.

[obzen]

PUNISHMENT FOR THE CRIMINALS COMES TO COACHELLA!!!

[disgustipated]

Patrick this thread was a noble attempt to provoke intelligent, thoughtful debate. Instead we get a bunch of barbarian wanna-bes for whom life is just one long mediocre sitcom episode.

says the guy whos only contribution was this...

and this...

both made me laugh, btw. In a mediocre sitcom kinda way

[TomAz]

My photo posts were far more thoughtful and insightful than just about anything else in this thread.

Woozel said some people don't deserve to live. I posted concentration camp detainees as an example of one group of people that a government once thought exactly that about. He said he didn't want to pay for incarceration. I posted a picture of Mr Burns as another greedy bastard who would have the same opinion.

Deciding who gets to live and who gets to die should not be up to the state.

Paying for prisons and jails is part of the price of maintaining a civilized society.

[Aurgasm]

Patrick this thread was a noble attempt to provoke intelligent, thoughtful debate. Instead we get a bunch of barbarian wanna-bes for whom life is just one long mediocre sitcom episode.

look at your signature. that is the kind of shit that is posted around here. I hardly take anything on this board seriously, besides Sbessio's insane love of the Killers.

Save your intelligence, nobility and thoughtfulness for your real life encounters and cut this holier than thou act. We all have our thoughts and opinions on this extremely controversial topic; maybe some of us express them better outside of music festival message boards.

'life is just one long mediocre sitcom episode' I find humour in humanity's struggle to justify what is right and what is wrong.

[BlackSwan]

Deciding who gets to live and who gets to die should not be up to the state.

Tom, I respect that opinion, but I believe that punishment for the most heinous of crimes should be so severe that even sociopaths are afraid to harm innocent people. Do you have a better option than a death fight?

[TomAz]

Sociopaths are too stupid or too disconnected or too crazy to be fearful. The whole notion of capital punishment as a deterrent is silly in this respect. Anyone who is in a position of considering killing another person isn't going to stop and say "oh, wait, if I do this, then I might be caught, tried, convicted, and executed"

[Aurgasm]

civilized society.

Are you two buddies?

[TomAz]

We all have our thoughts and opinions on this extremely controversial topic; maybe some of us express them better outside of music festival message boards.

Or maybe some of you are slow on the uptake.

Are you two buddies?

QED

[Aurgasm]

Sociopaths are too stupid or too disconnected or too crazy to be fearful. The whole notion of capital punishment as a deterrent is silly in this respect. Anyone who is in a position of considering killing another person isn't going to stop and say "oh, wait, if I do this, then I might be caught, tried, convicted, and executed"

agreed.

I wonder how a murderer or rapists would respond when asked what punishment they deserve.

[Aurgasm]

Or maybe some of you are slow on the uptake.

Or maybe you're just too high and mighty for your own good, old man. Instead of spreading your apparent knowledge you're poo pooing us for..what? not taking this seriously?

get your head out of your ass and share. im all ears..hrm...eyes

[BlackSwan]

Sociopaths are too stupid or too disconnected or too crazy to be fearful.

I agree that they may be too disconnected.

The whole notion of capital punishment as a deterrent is silly in this respect. Anyone who is in a position of considering killing another person isn't going to stop and say "oh, wait, if I do this, then I might be caught, tried, convicted, and executed"

How do you know this?

[JustSteve]

look at your signature. that is the kind of shit that is posted around here. I hardly take anything on this board seriously, besides Sbessio's insane love of the Killers.

Save your intelligence, nobility and thoughtfulness for your real life encounters and cut this holier than thou act. We all have our thoughts and opinions on this extremely controversial topic; maybe some of us express them better outside of music festival message boards.

'life is just one long mediocre sitcom episode' I find humour in humanity's struggle to justify what is right and what is wrong.

don't talk to your elders like that.

[Somewhat Damaged]

Sociopaths are too stupid or too disconnected or too crazy to be fearful. The whole notion of capital punishment as a deterrent is silly in this respect. Anyone who is in a position of considering killing another person isn't going to stop and say "oh, wait, if I do this, then I might be caught, tried, convicted, and executed"

So what about what I said, about the death penalty being employed to prevent future crimes (even those that could only be committed in prison) by sociopaths? Would you just advocate permanent solitary confinement for them?

[Aurgasm]

don't talk to your elders like that.

haha. i do respect Tom's opinions on music and other matters, just wasnt expecting to be harangued for trying to be humorous (epic fail on my part).

besides, people do get heated about complex matters such as "justified murder"

[captncrzy]

look at your signature. that is the kind of shit that is posted around here. I hardly take anything on this board seriously, besides Sbessio's insane love of the Killers.

Save your intelligence, nobility and thoughtfulness for your real life encounters and cut this holier than thou act. We all have our thoughts and opinions on this extremely controversial topic; maybe some of us express them better outside of music festival message boards.

'life is just one long mediocre sitcom episode' I find humour in humanity's struggle to justify what is right and what is wrong.

So you can only have non-serious conversations here? Every message board has a "lounge" that various topics regarding everything but the original message board topic can be discussed.

Stop being douchey for the sake of doucheyness; you're an intelligent enough guy-why troll when you can state your opinion?


I agree with the idea of the death penalty but find the system that does the determining and executing too flawed to warrant allowing it to continue. What are the guidelines? Who draws the line? Story of two men-both kill someone. One gets the death penalty and one gets out in 20 years. Same end result, two different verdicts. Who lives and who dies shouldn't boil down to an American Idol-style decision.

Like Steve said, if anyone did something heinous to my child, I'd kill them with my bare hands without even considering the ramifications.

[TommyboyUNM]

Sociopaths are too stupid or too disconnected or too crazy to be fearful. The whole notion of capital punishment as a deterrent is silly in this respect. Anyone who is in a position of considering killing another person isn't going to stop and say "oh, wait, if I do this, then I might be caught, tried, convicted, and executed"

I just finished "Freakonomics" and there is a section about crime. It went into why the national crime rate dipped so suddenly in the 90's. Linking Roe v. Wade to the sudden dip was especially interesting to me. And it makes sense.

It also touched on certain things that people attribute a reduction in crime to, but those things may not necessarily have much of an impact. The death penalty was mentioned and I believe the finding was that it is not actually much of a deterrent. The authors compared crime statistics in states that use capital punishment to states that don't. I think they also compared stats within the states themselves. Before capital punishment vs after capital punishment. It was pretty interesting.

I know there are tons of variables for this type of study. The people who did this study controlled for certain things, but I can't remember what off the top of my head. That probably wasn't much help to you, it's good food for thought. I'm not sure if the death penalty is as much of a crime deterrent as many people are led to believe.

[Aurgasm]

So you can only have non-serious conversations here? Every message board has a "lounge" that various topics regarding everything but the original message board topic can be discussed.

Stop being douchey for the sake of doucheyness; you're an intelligent enough guy-why troll when you can state your opinion?

It's been stated in brief. And if you'd like a real life conversation join me at the buffet and we can hash it out.

8^)

[captncrzy]

Get your ass back to Tucson then.

[BlackSwan]

I'm not sure if the death penalty is as much of a crime deterrent as many people are led to believe.

I'm looking at it from the perspective that if the death penalty process was more effective there would eventually be no criminals left.

[TommyboyUNM]

I'm looking at it from the perspective that if the death penalty process was more effective there would eventually be no crinminals left.

I can actually see your train of thought, and I agree with it to a certain extent. It would maybe do a good job with stopping crime at the hands of repeat offenders. But I don't think the death penalty really addresses the source of the problem, which is poverty (in my opinion).

[menikmati]

The death penalty does not really act as a deterrent to crime.

Because it takes 30 fucking years to act on it. It's a joke. It needs to revamped and used properly.

[BlackSwan]

Poverty is definitely one of the major sources of the problem.

[TommyboyUNM]

Poverty is definitely one of the major sources of the problem.

Yup. And it looked like my post was inferring that poverty is the only source of crime, which I don't find to be true. But I think it's the biggest cause.

That's why the Roe v. Wade theory interested me. The theory is that most abortions occur in situations of poverty. So the child who would've grown up in poverty and, conceivably, would've been more likely to end up as a criminal just ended up not existing. The pool of potential criminals just went down at the point which those people would've been in their late teens and early 20's (the ages thought to be the "prime" for criminal activity).

So if you're pro life then you're pro crime*.




*kidding....kind of.

[MantisMel]

I'm looking at it from the perspective that if the death penalty process was more effective there would eventually be no criminals left.

Not just that, but you would think criminals would try harder at not getting caught in the first place. What ever happened to the good 'ol fashioned torture method of crime deterrent. Heretic Fork, The Pillory, Judas Cradle or even the Spanish Tickler?!

[BROKENDOLL]

My photo posts were far more thoughtful and insightful than just about anything else in this thread.
Woozel said some people don't deserve to live. I posted concentration camp detainees as an example of one group of people that a government once thought exactly that about. He said he didn't want to pay for incarceration. I posted a picture of Mr Burns as another greedy bastard who would have the same opinion.

Deciding who gets to live and who gets to die should not be up to the state.

Paying for prisons and jails is part of the price of maintaining a civilized society.

Sorry Tom, but I've got you beat in insight, pal, and trust me, the most heinous of crimes are not committed with any guilt, what makes you think the criminal is gonna feel any while sitting there eating those 3 solid meals a day? As far as they're concerned, they are living free. No more of societies bullshit, a place to sleep, food, and a good book to read.
If you're gonna insist they remain alive after killing 2-3 people cold blooded, then maybe the states need to devise a system that contains them all together without the bars between them and let them try to survive in their own little society of killers. Chances are pretty good you wouldn't need executions, they would take care of themselves in that department.

And, sorry, but your statement about maintaining a civilized society by paying for prisons and jails? Maybe for your drug offenders or thieves. They may have something to offer society if they get rehabilitated. Unfortunately, between the over crowding already, and then those that will feed off the system until they die, that rehabilitation remains out of financial reach...

[TomAz]

How do you know this?

I just finished "Freakonomics" and there is a section about crime. It went into why the national crime rate dipped so suddenly in the 90's. Linking Roe v. Wade to the sudden dip was especially interesting to me. And it makes sense.

It also touched on certain things that people attribute a reduction in crime to, but those things may not necessarily have much of an impact. The death penalty was mentioned and I believe the finding was that it is not actually much of a deterrent. The authors compared crime statistics in states that use capital punishment to states that don't. I think they also compared stats within the states themselves. Before capital punishment vs after capital punishment. It was pretty interesting.

...

[TomAz]

Because it takes 30 fucking years to act on it. It's a joke. It needs to revamped and used properly.

Poverty is definitely one of the major sources of the problem.

[SoulDischarge]

I don't know Tom. Tensions are starting to rise a bit, thanks in no small part to you.

Another situation. What about dangerous dictators? Do you agree with Saddam Hussein's execution? For people who don't believe in the death sentence, do you think Hitler should have been executed had he been caught alive?

[TommyboyUNM]

Re: The death penalty as a deterrent.

Desperate people don't often think about consequences. I think Tom may have the right mindset with this.