Pinpoint Where America Went Wrong

[gaypalmsprings]

Real Men Don't Use Emoticons.

[MissingPerson]

Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists.

They didn't do what they did in the name of atheism though; they just perfected a secular kind of personality cult.

[BlackSwan]

I am dizzy from all that spin, MP.

[MissingPerson]

I live in a country with a motherfucking anti-blasphemy law. Don't start me.

[Wheres the beef?]

It started the day the first Europeans discovered this land and then wealthy elites sent their lackeys over to pillage and plunder.

There was a brief glimpse of hope in 1776 but that was quickly and expectedly utilized by the wealthy (now transplanted here) to take full control from the wealthy elites still in Europe.

[JebusLives]

I am dizzy from all that spin, MP.

Like I said earlier, religion is a symptom not a cause. Not all crazies exhibit the same symptoms.

She's right, though; atheists don't commit atrocities in the name of atheism. We have no scapegoat. No sky daddy to absolve us of sin. When we do bad, it is of our own volition.

[TomAz]

It started the day the first Europeans discovered this land and then wealthy elites sent their lackeys over to pillage and plunder.

There was a brief glimpse of hope in 1776 but that was quickly and expectedly utilized by the wealthy (now transplanted here) to take full control from the wealthy elites still in Europe.

Your notion of a 'brief glimpse of hope' is a bit silly. The American Revolution was a tax protest. It was rich guys not wanting to pay so much in taxes. A persistent theme in our history I'd say.

[JebusLives]

I live in a country with a motherfucking anti-blasphemy law. Don't start me.

Mother Mary fuck me with a spoon... really? I need details. Not here though - we're upsetting the jesus freaks.

[BlackSwan]

She's right, though; atheists don't commit atrocities in the name of atheism.

Are you really going to make me find hard evidence of it?

We have no scapegoat. No sky daddy to absolve us of sin. When we do bad, it is of our own volition.

This reeks of bias, and disdain towards non-atheists. Are you familiar with definition of the word "volition"?

[stinkbutt]

This board continually makes me think less and less of Canada

[wmgaretjax]

Your notion of a 'brief glimpse of hope' is a bit silly. The American Revolution was a tax protest. It was rich guys not wanting to pay so much in taxes.

a-fucking-men.

[Wheres the beef?]

Your notion of a 'brief glimpse of hope' is a bit silly. The American Revolution was a tax protest. It was rich guys not wanting to pay so much in taxes. A persistent theme in our history I'd say.

And I'm not here to sugar coat it. But there were some good parts about it too. That is why I used the qualifier "a brief glimpse". Maybe to you it was "non existent"?

[JebusLives]

Are you really going to make me find hard evidence of it?

Yes.

This reeks of bias, and disdain towards non-atheists.

yes.

Are you familiar with definition of the word "volition"?

yes.

[MissingPerson]

Like I said earlier, religion is a symptom not a cause. Not all crazies exhibit the same symptoms.

Wars start over other stuff, but time and time again, what lets people discard their last ounce of reason or humanity is that they have found a way to make their enemy less human. And time and time again, that thing is religion, because it operates in absence of reason anyway.

Mother Mary fuck me with a spoon... really? I need details. Not here though - we're upsetting the jesus freaks.

The best part is, it only came in this year. The failure of a national healthcare plan in the US is a failure to take a step forward; We actually took a step backward. That statement I just made about religion fucking itself, for instance, is a crime, because I wanted to be "grossly abusive and insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion, and (b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage."

So when I sent this letter to my national newspaper, they printed it like this. But it's not like it's entirely unprecedented, because our constitution gives the church special acknowledgment.

And that's something I think Americans need to remember. Those crazy cabin-living hillbillies are right about one thing; the fundamental ideals of your nation are pretty damn good. Stupid people and stupid governments can come and go, but at least there's a good foundation there.

[BlackSwan]

Yes.

Ok, later. I am going to Phoenix now (band, not city).

yes.

It appears that you used incorrectly then.

[JebusLives]

And that's something I think Americans need to remember. Those crazy cabin-living hillbillies are right about one thing; the fundamental ideals of your nation are pretty damn good. Stupid people and stupid governments can come and go, but at least there's a good foundation there.

Completely agreed! Their founding fathers were remarkably enlightened, especially for the time. I'm particularly impressed with Thomas Jefferson - besides writing the declaration of independence (on hemp!), the guy managed to find enough spare time to become the father of modern archaeology. AND he looks like Christopher Walken! Ace.

It appears that you used incorrectly then.

As a synonym for 'will'? No.

Enjoy Phoenix. we'll be waiting

[canexplain]

They didn't do what they did in the name of atheism though; they just perfected a secular kind of personality cult.

MP we may chaff a bit on some things, but we do agree on more then you seem to think. I guess I started the religious debate, but it is just something I think is true. Sure it comes down to a single individual sometimes, but many times trouble starts In The Name Of God (s). I can't read peoples minds or intentions but they invoke God as the reason. If I am going to fight for anything, it is for my country, my family or for a lady. After those three reasons, you would be hard to get more then a chuckle out of me. cr****

[canexplain]

Ok, later. I am going to Phoenix now (band, not city).



It appears that you used incorrectly then.

I saw them Sunday, have a good time BlackSwan ... cr****

[Wheres the beef?]

MP we may chaff a bit on some things, but we do agree on more then you seem to think. I guess I started the religious debate, but it is just something I think is true. Sure it comes down to a single individual sometimes, but many times trouble starts In The Name Of God (s). I can't read peoples minds or intentions but they invoke God as the reason. If I am going to fight for anything, it is for my country, my family or for a lady. After those three reasons, you would be hard to get more then a chuckle out of me. cr****

You wouldn't fight for yourself?

[Alchemy]

After they stopped making tiny Mighty Max toys, I knew that our country was fucked.

[algunz]

After they stopped making tiny Mighty Max toys, I knew that our country was fucked.

I think it was when John Lennon died.

[canexplain]

You wouldn't fight for yourself?

That is an interesting question. I guess it depends on the situation. I posted this once before. I was at a stoplight once. It was after road construction and two lanes merged. I let two cars get in front of me and I was in the lane that didn't have to merge. So I am stopped at this light and a dude gets out of a car behind me. He says "why the fuck didn't you let me in?" Then he precedes to punch me in my face. It surprised me a bit but it was like just annoying. I told him if that was the hardest he could punch that he should get back in his car because if i got out, I would fuck him up so bad, ... ........ I took down his license plate, went straight to the cops and reported him. They asked if I wanted to press charges and I said no. They emailed me later that he got 6 months probation for assault. My only hope is that he learned something from that and chilled out a bit. So just an example of where no I wouldn't fight for myself. I won't bore you with an example of what might turn me the other way. cr****

[humanoid]

I'm not normally a fighter, but if someone punches me in the face, they're getting hurt

[RotationSlimWang]

This phenomenon is neither new nor uniquely American. It's the way politics works and has worked for thousands of years.

I think the entire pretext of this thread is wrong. It seems to presume that America was ever 'right' or that a 'right' form of government can ever be found. I think this comes from the crappy way we are all taught history - overly simplistic, idealizing the Founding Fathers, idealizing the Constitution, idealizing Abraham Lincoln, etc etc. It's all propaganda and this thread is mainly about the dissatisfaction with the current environment because it doesn't live up to the idealized, sanitized, propagandized view of history.

People will always make choices that they believe are in their own person al best interests. To demonize or claim this is somehow 'wrong' is foolish naivety. 10,000 years of recorded human history proves me right.

The question is how is it that such a large percentage of the populous is routinely convinced to act AGAINST their own self interests while believing they're protecting those interests? It's a fascinating piece of work the anti-health care lobby has managed to pull off both in the 90s and now again. How exactly is it that they've managed to convince 100 million people that our system is better than the systems employed in every other prosperous Western society despite the fact that all the data contradicts it? Don't you find it in the least bit remarkable that it's apparently this easy to essentially trick people into believing they're better off fending for themselves in the most overpriced health care system in the world rather than have guaranteed protection from the ills of the world?

[algunz]

People aren't working against their own self interests. (At least they don't "think" they are.) They have been scared into believing that "giving and sharing" is AGAINST their best interest.

This phenomenon has been a part of our country's pattern since the genesis.

[MissingPerson]

Part of the myth though, right? If you're willing to work hard, everything will magically fall into place because you deserve it.

The others, they're just hippies. They choose to be poor because it's so awesome.

[RotationSlimWang]

People aren't working against their own self interests. (At least they don't "think" they are.) They have been scared into believing that "giving and sharing" is AGAINST their best interest.

This phenomenon has been a part of our country's pattern since the genesis.

Clearly not always. New Deal.

[RotationSlimWang]

Brevity does not make one wrong. I could research and give you 100 wars that were started in the name of religion. You gave me three examples of where that wasn’t the truth and yes I know there are more. IMO, it would end up: Causes of war: God=80%, all other reasons=20%. …. Cr****

Wars are motivated by competition for resources. Survival instinct manifested in mob mentality. Religion is just one of the oldest and most prevalent excuses humanity has employed to try to rationalize their subconscious animal instincts to fight when population pressure initiates a conflict for resources.

[RotationSlimWang]

If you honestly don't think that America is in the beginning phases of a typical empire's collapse, I'm boggled. We show all the signs. It's coming. I'm just wondering what the 22nd century's history books will point to as being the moment where things started going wrong

[algunz]

Clearly not always. New Deal.

What are you talking about? There may be barely there remnants of the initial intent of the New Deal, but the Conservative Coalition nipped that "good" idea pretty quickly. We've always fucked ourselves and probably always will. Not until people can learn to live with what is necessary and not what is wanted or wished for . . . every political system will find itself in times of trouble.