Was Any1 else Pepper Sprayed by Security while leaving Sunday

[The Keymaster]

If I heard someone say "move or I'm going to pepper spray you" I would run for the fuckin hills!

Yeah. I was standing ten feet from all of this, completely clean and sober, and didn't hear one cop say anything even remotely like that. I didn't even hear anyone ask people to leave until after the pushing/pepper spray.

It's possible it could have been said inside the shrine or somewhere out of my earshot, but I doubt it. If someone has video/memory of the cops saying anything like that, I'd like to know.

O.K. but in all seriousness, I wasn't one of the people "trashing" any piece of artwork.

Some people in this thread make it sound as if people were tearing off pieces of the shrine and destroying it. Again, I didn't see anything like that. I saw people drumming on the walls, climbing on it and chanting. That's it.

[Sexecutioner]

Shrine:
A shrine, from the Latin scrinium (‘box’; also used as a desk, like the French bureau) is a holy or sacred place which is dedicated to a specific deity, ancestor, hero, martyr, saint or similar figure of awe and respect, at which they are venerated or worshipped.

we were all praying to the coachella gods and thanking them for the feasts they had bestowed upon us that weekend.

ps. i think most of us already knew what a shrine was, but thanks for the definition you self righteous bastard.

[Sexecutioner]

Some people in this thread make it sound as if people were tearing off pieces of the shrine and destroying it. Again, I didn't see anything like that. I saw people drumming on the walls, climbing on it and chanting. That's it.

you didn't see anything like that because it didn't happen. the only person making those claims wasn't even there.

[The Keymaster]

i think its really unfortunate that i saw a separation this year, where as every other year its like a huge gathering. security/vendors are there cause they decided to be, not for the money. i felt an edge from the crowds where in past years i'd sneeze and get like 4 'bless you's' from surrounding festivalie's and this year people seemed irritated with so many people.

As I walked out (still coughing from pepper spray) I overheard someone say that something seemed to be in the water on Sunday. I noticed a lot of pushy people over by the beer gardens (which, I suppose, isn't too surprising, but I've never had a problem with that before) and people were chucking full water bottles into the crowd during Public Enemy's set.

[Sexecutioner]

Post it, the audio alone is worth it.

[NicoleL]

I contacted the author of this article about police (mis)use of pepper spray and mace:

http://www.nlg-npap.org/html/research/LWpepperspray.pdf

She is an attorney in Seattle. Here is her reply:

"Thanks for contacting me, Nichole, and yes I did write that article. I skimmed your horiffic account of what happened and also checked the Coachella blog for additional accounts. It appears that it was the private security guards who used pepper spray on you and others (for what reason, I can't tell). You will need to contact an attorney in southern California or the ACLU in Los Angeles for a referral to one. Unfortunately, if it was a private guard and not a publicly employed police officer, you don't have a cause of action for civil rights violations. You do have a claim for assault under California law against the security company and/or the festival organizers who hired them. I would strongly advise you to pursue that avenue to make sure this does not happen again. You might get all of those who were sprayed together to get one attorney to represent you as group. An attorney would be more likely to do that since your injuries per person are relatively low (say compared to a car accident). Here are some names of a couple of civil rights lawyers in LA who can advise you on what to do: Chris Ford 213-487-8000; Richard Solomon 310-445-9595. You might also try Robert Burns in San Diego 619-223-0441. You may have already found another attorney by now.

Good luck!"

I was sprayed by an officer in uniform, not a security guard. The officer who sprayed me was male, mid-thirties, had a shaved head, was about 6'1", african american, and wearing a black police uniform. Like many of you experienced, he said nothing and immediately aimed for my eyes.

I am compiling a list of witnesses and victims. If you were involved in any way, PLEASE send me your full name and a brief account of your experience. If your friends witnessed the events, please forward this information to them. If you were in the area and never heard the police but saw people leaving who had been sprayed, you are a valuable witness too. I will contact the civil rights lawyers list above and the ACLU and will continue to post developments on this thread.

***I URGE anyone who was a witness or a victim to file an official complaint. You can do so through either of the links listed below:

http://www.indiopd.org/IPD%20forms/ipd-complaint.pdf

http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php...orms&formid=64


ps - I also contacted Coachella and Goldenvoice and have not received a response.

[SubBass49]

I contacted the author of this article about police (mis)use of pepper spray and mace:

http://www.nlg-npap.org/html/research/LWpepperspray.pdf

She is an attorney in Seattle. Here is her reply:

"Thanks for contacting me, Nichole, and yes I did write that article. I skimmed your horiffic account of what happened and also checked the Coachella blog for additional accounts. It appears that it was the private security guards who used pepper spray on you and others (for what reason, I can't tell). You will need to contact an attorney in southern California or the ACLU in Los Angeles for a referral to one. Unfortunately, if it was a private guard and not a publicly employed police officer, you don't have a cause of action for civil rights violations. You do have a claim for assault under California law against the security company and/or the festival organizers who hired them. I would strongly advise you to pursue that avenue to make sure this does not happen again. You might get all of those who were sprayed together to get one attorney to represent you as group. An attorney would be more likely to do that since your injuries per person are relatively low (say compared to a car accident). Here are some names of a couple of civil rights lawyers in LA who can advise you on what to do: Chris Ford 213-487-8000; Richard Solomon 310-445-9595. You might also try Robert Burns in San Diego 619-223-0441. You may have already found another attorney by now.

Good luck!"

I was sprayed by an officer in uniform, not a security guard. The officer who sprayed me was male, mid-thirties, had a shaved head, was about 6'1", african american, and wearing a black police uniform. Like many of you experienced, he said nothing and immediately aimed for my eyes.

I am compiling a list of witnesses and victims. If you were involved in any way, PLEASE send me your full name and a brief account of your experience. If your friends witnessed the events, please forward this information to them. If you were in the area and never heard the police but saw people leaving who had been sprayed, you are a valuable witness too. I will contact the civil rights lawyers list above and the ACLU and will continue to post developments on this thread.

***I URGE anyone who was a witness or a victim to file an official complaint. You can do so through either of the links listed below:

http://www.indiopd.org/IPD%20forms/ipd-complaint.pdf

http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php...orms&formid=64


ps - I also contacted Coachella and Goldenvoice and have not received a response.

Get that money money! Grab all that you can! It's the American way!

[NappyWhiteKid]

Nicole

Since we were both in the same boat, I understand your reaction to the situation, and i understand filing a police complaint, but what or who are you plannin on bringing charges against? Before jumping right into a lawsuit that would probably be fruitless and expensive for you, We wait for some sort of official reaction of statement. Suing Golden Voice or the like will only end up being counter productive and probably result in a smaller, more patrolled Coachella where everyone is over zealously covering there ass, I already have to stay herded between stages to enjoy a beer. And one again punishing the Festival wouldn't make it better for anyone.

I will provide my account, and I have filed a complaint, but correct training with non-lethal weapons, accountability, maybe even a change in the way Security handles situations like Sunday night are all more reasonable outcomes.

I've been to Coachella 3 times, and would like to keep the option open to go to a 4th. Without explaining who you plan on suing and for what, lawyering up to fight "the man" might be a regrettable snap judgment just like spraying pepper spray into the crowd.

A rash decision is the reason we were all forced to start these posts in the first place, Let's wait for an official statement or even apology before jumping into a lawsuit.

[romadelinebot]

I have a number of points:
- SubBass is probably a cop, who we all know wasn't there, and therefore has really nothing credible to say about this situation. Let's ignore his attempts to discredit us, and focus on the more important issue, which is: What we're going to do about being pepper sprayed by people who were in a position of authority, without warning or being given a chance to leave, during a completely non violent drum circle.

-Just to clarify, yes, I was there, yes, I got pepper sprayed by a cop, at relatively close range, with NO WARNING whatsoever. Nothing. Not a peep. If he had told me to leave, in some fashion, either personally or via a bullhorn, I would have done so immediately. I wasn't destroying anything or being violent. I was standing next to a house that was being used as a drum. That's all.


NWK:
-The only way to acquire an apology/statement from either the police department or Goldenvoice, and any kind of promise of different training for security/cops is to create a sign some kind of petition saying that we'd like an official statement/apology/incident report. They're not going to do any of those things without a whole lot of prodding, because neither the police nor Goldenvoice wants to call attention to this incident.....we as people without legal expertise might not be able to effectively prod without the help of some kind of lawyer, even if we decide not to pursue a lawsuit route. It doesn't bode well that Nicole hasn't gotten a response from the PD or Goldenvoice. So PLEASE people, if you were a witness/got maced, file your complaints!

[SubBass49]

I have a number of points:
- SubBass is probably a cop, who we all know wasn't there, and therefore has really nothing credible to say about this situation. Let's ignore his attempts to discredit us, and focus on the more important issue, which is: What we're going to do about being pepper sprayed by people who were in a position of authority, without warning or being given a chance to leave, during a completely non violent drum circle.

Yes...I'm probably a cop...right. Says the lurker lawsuit-hungry lawyer-up loser. I'm not a cop, I'm a teacher. I don't need to be a cop to comment on this any more than you need a brain to go and try to fuck up Coachella for everyone with some stupid lawsuit.

Like I said before...people like this screw shit up for EVERYBODY because they don't know how to act. Ask any law-abiding person who used to be able to enjoy a beer or two at San Diego's beaches.

I haven't agreed with every single thing that NappyWhiteKid has had to say, but you better damn well read his last post before you go and fuck everything up. You AND Nicole.

A lawsuit will result in:

a). tighter security & restrictions
b). higher prices to recover lawsuit losses
c). higher prices for security (passed on to us as consumers)

Any one of those things will make me want to beat your everloving ass.

[romadelinebot]

Maybe I can clarify a little bit....those of us who were THERE are going have a civil discussion without name-calling about the best course of action to take regarding this unwarranted macing incident.
I am not blindly advocating a lawsuit. If I was, it would be against the Indio PD, not Goldenvoice. The cops were the ones doing the spraying.

Right now, I, like NWK and Nicole, would like the police to issue a public statement/apology/promise to create a plan of action to better deal with a situation where they would like people to disperse by using their WORDS, not their cans of pepper spray.

We need to figure out the best way to get them to do this. Creating a petition seems like a good idea....any thoughts, anyone?

[canexplain]

wow jb you are wired about this:

I wasnt there, cant say

if you were innocent, just chalk it up to a great story you can tell your friend and kids and let it go

I like JB have been there and done that,so when i talk with the dea, fbi, all cops, i always say SIR

if i am going to protest or party a little too much, i go expecting to get jailed, sprayed, but hopefully not shot

and lastly, people who know of the wakarusa cop thing 3? years back, that is a better example of bad bad law enforcement and we tried via the ACLU to do something ..... zip, nada, etc ... good luck but you will be wasting your time ....

i have been busted twice for weed, fbi, dea, homeland, state and feds, and local cops ... both times THEY LET ME GO WITH NO STRINGS ... so there are good cops and bad cops just like people

at burningman they tourch the art before they leave .... maybe coachella should do that just for fun

sorry just rambling here ..... cr****

[canexplain]

Maybe I can clarify a little bit....those of us who were THERE are going have a civil discussion without name-calling about the best course of action to take regarding this unwarranted macing incident.
I am not blindly advocating a lawsuit. If I was, it would be against the Indio PD, not Goldenvoice. The cops were the ones doing the spraying.

Right now, I, like NWK and Nicole, would like the police to issue a public statement/apology/promise to create a plan of action to better deal with a situation where they would like people to disperse by using their WORDS, not their cans of pepper spray.

We need to figure out the best way to get them to do this. Creating a petition seems like a good idea....any thoughts, anyone?

i was typing my comments while you posted yours .... do you want the links, newpaper articles, etc about the wakarusa incident?

[Delta]

The infamous SubBass strikes again! zing! I would like to see how many times big tough teacher daddy can post on a topic that has nothing to do with him! so reply subbass, log your chunky ass onto the nearest computer and babble your incoherent heart out on this coachella.com forum. for a teacher at the age of 31 with a family to take care of, you sure do spend a lot of time on the computer starting pointless arguments. The funny thing is, I know you will reply to this! hahaha. If you are really the man you say you are, then by God, ZIP IT, FREAK!


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[romadelinebot]

i was typing my comments while you posted yours .... do you want the links, newpaper articles, etc about the wakarusa incident?

Yes, that would probably be helpful.....I understand that these things tend to be pretty useless. I'm not new to activism, an while thankfully I've never been in this situation before I have friends who have been...at times, they've had some success, and at times no success at all....

But to be frank, I feel like I need to at least make an effort to get whatever PD was involved with the pepper spraying to at least apologize and create some kind of a plan of action to prevent this from happening at future Coachellas.

Like I said, if I'd been given warning, I would have left immediately. Why they didn't get on a bullhorn and order people to disperse, or tap me on the shoulder, or anything else besides instantly pepper spraying is beyond me.
They know how excruciatingly painful that stuff is (via their cop training), and you'd think they would have wanted to give everyone a chance to get away....not giving that chance makes it look like they were sadistically trying to hurt people.

[NappyWhiteKid]

Like I said before...people like this screw shit up for EVERYBODY because they don't know how to act. Ask any law-abiding person who used to be able to enjoy a beer or two at San Diego's beaches.

I haven't agreed with every single thing that NappyWhiteKid has had to say, but you better damn well read his last post before you go and fuck everything up. You AND Nicole.

A lawsuit will result in:

a). tighter security & restrictions
b). higher prices to recover lawsuit losses
c). higher prices for security (passed on to us as consumers)

Trust me SUbBass and I haven't agreed on everything just foolow the thread, BUT I am one of those people who live in the beach area of San Diego and can no longer enjoy a beer on my beloved beaches so I know where he is coming from with that.

I've filed my complaint and I'm all for the petition route. Lets just remember that our reaction to this can make us look like crazy money hungry douches or people who want whats right, and I for one would prefer to be known as the latter.

So start the petition we can probably even set it up online. and if you were sprayed file a report and give your actual name and contact info but lets all be reasonable. Like I said before if the specific cops that night [yes just like people there are good and bad cops, just like mechanics, doctors, anyone] had been this wouldn't even be an issue.

[SubBass49]

You see, Delta, this DOES concern me. I have been to EVERY Coachella. It is a yearly tradition for me. Therefore, the actions of any newbie morons that will potentially threaten it's existence tend to piss me off.

Why does it bother you so much that I care about it though?

Maybe because I have a point or two?

Get over it. Listen to Ron if you don't want to listen to me. Or will you call his experience into question as well? He's probably one of the most (if not THE most) respected members of this board. But oh no...he wasn't there on your fateful night!

STFU & DIAF

[canexplain]

tnx JB for the good words ....

here is the waka stuff, a link and a paste of who was inside the park ... and like JB said, watch out for what you want ..... because of the trouble, wakarusa has since moved to ARK (this year) ... i wouldnt want coachella to move (well cept here lol) but i know you feel you have to do what you have to do ..... peace .... cr****

1. Douglas County Sheriff's Dept.
2. Kansas State Highway Patrol
3. Kansas Bureau of Investigation (KBI)
4. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
5. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)
6. Homeland Security Officials
7. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF)
8. Clinton Lake State Park Rangers
http://waka-action.blogspot.com/

[Delta]

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[canexplain]

Insert angry Subbass remark here
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delta, if this is an example of "fuck I wasnt doing anything, i am innocent", then i might have to say hummmmmmmmmmmm ..... let it go dude and have a great friday man ....... cr****

Hey JB, this probably belongs under the default thread but hey …. Anyway, let it be known I am a liberal and some (most) would consider me far left … so the question is for you: when I listen to the right wing, they ALWAYS say how our schools, especially the colleges and universities, have nothing but liberal agenda driven teachers and professors. Being in your position, do you think that is true? Just wondering from someone who should be in the know …. Cr****

[SubBass49]

Dont wanna threadjack, but there are all kinds of teachers here. One of my favorite teachers at my school where I teach is the polar opposite of me in terms of political orientation, but we both have strong convictions of student achievement, discipline plans, and goal setting...so we tend to get along. I will say that administration tends to be very liberal until you get to the district level, where superintendants are often right-wing anti-union types.

Far as universities go, again there are all types. In fact, while the local right-wing radio heads like to criticize universities as left-wing propaganda, they have also run stories freaking out over right-wing professors getting into trouble for posting up anti-immigrant and anti-Mexico leaftlets. So who knows? I had professors that were of all persuasions when I attended SDSU. Most of them didn't delve into matters of politics in class anyway.

[chiapet]

Man, so now that I finally bothered to read the thread, I saw this happening (though didn't see people getting maced specifically -- I think they were on the opposite side of the shrine as I was).

All I can say is that I don't think any reasonable person would have thought they were NOT going to get hassled about what they were doing. They knew it was a bad idea. They crowded a ton of people inside the interior of the shrine, and were stomping, jumping up and down, hitting the walls, etc, anything to make noise. From the outside, the whole thing was shaking and it definitely looked like it would be damaged in the process. It might have been find if a couple of people were doing it, but there were a LOT of people for that tiny structure.

As formerly an artist and someone who has friends who built art for festivals, I was really put off. What you were doing was not cool. It was incredibly disrespectful to the person who spent months of their life building something for your VISUAL enjoyment.

I am not glad you got maced, but you're a bunch of asses who might want to reconsider your bright ideas before you rush into them next time.

[Sexecutioner]

i didnt think the art was being damaged in any way. if i did, i wouldnt have participated. i just thought it was fun to jump up and down and chant coachella as a way to end the weekend. i didnt think anybody was being destructive or violent, and i hope the shrine wasnt damaged.

[chiapet]

I think it looked a lot differently from the outside than when in the middle of that little crowd inside the shrine. It was shaking and rocking quite a bit and did not look sturdy enough to stand very much of that type of behavior.

[NappyWhiteKid]

As formerly an artist and someone who has friends who built art for festivals, I was really put off. What you were doing was not cool. It was incredibly disrespectful to the person who spent months of their life building something for your VISUAL enjoyment.

Since you just jumped into the thread I hope you had a chance to read the part about the validity of Art and that there are a number of Artists involved in this conversation. if you misses it here is a quick summary.


We all seem to agree on this:

Some art takes years to create, some mere second, and other art has a life of it's own, and the journey that the art travels and artifacts that is collects and loses actually shape the art.
Some artist feel that their work is meant to be experienced, touched, and yes even sometimes used to create and inspire, (as in music, and yeah a drum circle). Think about it every sculpture at Coachella invokes participation. Why, because this Shrine is older, or made of wood, is it less tangible than the Serpent mother?


Since None of us are the artist of La Familia Divina Shrine and therefore can't speak on the artists intentions or reactions.

And we would all love to hear the artists reaction to the situation.

And again No one on this thread condones destroying Art.

Also from the inside we were not omnipotent, I did not see the girl from the video that scales the building. [So I cannot defend everyone's actions that night but jumping up and down inside and keeping beat on the wall, chanting, was not defacing or destroying the "Shrine" from where I stood, 20+ years creates a sturdy structure. If people outside were indeed acting like asses, ripping pieces off and purposely destroying the piece, then those individuals should have been dealt with in a reasonable structured fashion, this isn't the securities first day on the job.]

If you would like to find the artist and get a statement, or start another thread on the value of interactivity in art at the festival, and if all pieces including the "Shrine" were meant to be interactive at Coachella 09, that is a valid discussion. But it has been beaten to such a moot point on this message board, that your "Coachella Sunday Night bottle of glue" should be in the mail anytime.

The point of this Message thread is to:

1. see how many people this effected and

2. find a reasonable solution that will end in some accountability, and prevent this from happening at future fests without ruining/ or marring future Coachella experiences.

If you can help us succeed in anyway to meet those goals, please do.

[NicoleL]

Thank you to those who have provided their contact information! I will check with you before I put you down as a witness on any paper work to make sure it is ok with you and I will keep you updated.

I completely agree that the rest of coachella was amazing! I love going every year and have always been impressed with the security guards. This is an isolated incident involving the Indio police, not the coachella security guards. My civil rights were only violated by the one specific police officer who maced me without issuing me a warning. I was not one of the people inside the structure and many of those who were maced were simply making their way toward the exit and walked by to see what all the noise was. Those of you who were actually present are aware that there was no violence or security prior to the macing, but those who were not present seem to unaware of dynamics of the situation. There was no activity that justified the police using their weapons without first issuing a warning. I am not seeking monetary compensation. I am seeking:

1) an official apology from the Indio Police Department
2) suspension of the officer(s) who maced individuals without prior warning
3) proper training including a written protocol for Indio police officers on the use of mace
4) written protocol on humane crowd dispersal for the Indio Police Department
5) absorption of all legal fees by the Indio Police Department

I did contact Goldenvoice and Coachella in regards to whether or not they will be issuing a statement and neither have responded. The Indio Police Department had not issued a press release yet either.

[SubBass49]

Thank you to those who have provided their contact information! I will check with you before I put you down as a witness on any paper work to make sure it is ok with you and I will keep you updated.

I completely agree that the rest of coachella was amazing! I love going every year and have always been impressed with the security guards. This is an isolated incident involving the Indio police, not the coachella security guards. My civil rights were only violated by the one specific police officer who maced me without issuing me a warning. I was not one of the people inside the structure and many of those who were maced were simply making their way toward the exit and walked by to see what all the noise was. Those of you who were actually present are aware that there was no violence or security prior to the macing, but those who were not present seem to unaware of dynamics of the situation. There was no activity that justified the police using their weapons without first issuing a warning. I am not seeking monetary compensation. I am seeking:

1) an official apology from the Indio Police Department
2) suspension of the officer(s) who maced individuals without prior warning
3) proper training including a written protocol for Indio police officers on the use of mace
4) written protocol on humane crowd dispersal for the Indio Police Department
5) absorption of all legal fees by the Indio Police Department

I did contact Goldenvoice and Coachella in regards to whether or not they will be issuing a statement and neither have responded. The Indio Police Department had not issued a press release yet either.

...and so it begins.

This won't happen w/o a lawsuit...AND THEREFORE...this will definitely have an effect of Coachella and the way police interact with GV, the Polo Grounds, and the crowd. I hope you enjoy fucking things up for other people.

[scoop49er]

bottom line: most of you probalby deserved it! fucking go home already!

[chiapet]

Nappy, I almost responded to Ron's comparison to Burning Man, but was busy at work and forgot. What I had to say is this: I think there are events where an artist expects, and even encourages, destruction of their work. Burning Man is a great example of that, where the intention is to burn at the end of the week, and certainly artists take that into consideration when deciding how much of their money, time and selves go into the work. There are other situations where artists understand there is a high risk of vandalism to their work.

But at an event like Coachella, I would not expect purposeful damage. Accidental damage or destruction is one thing... would you expect the Coachella crowd to purposefully deface an art piece? The risk is always there of course, I just am not sure the artist would expect this when exhibiting at this particular event.

What I saw going on looked more like potential vandalism in progress than anything else.

[canexplain]

fine chia just forget about me just like that cr****