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Thread: RATM's crappy politics

  1. #1

    Default RATM's crappy politics

    I am a huge fan of RATM and I will be amongst the throngs of Coachella fans going nuts when they walk on stage.

    Despite being a huge fan, I feel it needs to be stated that some of RATM's political messages are completely inane and childish. Chief among those senseless political stances is the "Free Mumia" cause.

    Mumia Abu-Jamal is a convicted murderer who shot Philadelphia officer Daniel Faulkner in the back and then executed him Nazi style. However, because of race politics and and his leftist "revolutionary" ideas, Mumia is revered by leftists, liberal scholars, and cop-haters alike. In cold blood, Mumia left Faulkner's wife a widow.

    I love RATM's music and I don't completely disagree with all of their political ideologies, but the "Free Mumia" cause is just classless. How would you feel if one of your family members was gunned down and the killer became a hero?

    I'm just sayin...

    For more info, check this link:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2006/12/0...s-anniversary/
    Last edited by jorona79; 02-13-2007 at 08:57 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Agreed. I think politics can ruin music sometimes. Not saying RATM is bad, but sometimes bands worry too much about getting their political thoughts out and not enough about writing good music.

  3. #3
    old school MarkO's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    I never bought into their politics or agenda, I just liked the music. I always thought he (Zack) was a whiny fucker anyway.

    If you want to make a difference as a musician in politics, look to Bono as the way to do it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Thanks for chiming in Nate. I think threads like this reinforce the notion that many Coachella atendees are smart people who don't blindly accept all political messages that are thrown their way in the form of music.

    On that note, see you Sunday!

  5. #5
    old school fober's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Fuck politics, fuck Bono and fuck any time RATM spend on stage NOT playing music.

    If they wanted to be active they should have stuck around from 2001 on.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jorona79 View Post
    Thanks for chiming in Nate. I think threads like this reinforce the notion that many Coachella atendees are smart people who don't blindly accept all political messages that are thrown their way in the form of music.

    On that note, see you Sunday!
    why don't you guys do some more fuckin research before buying into one article, give me a good argument on how mumia was given a fair trial. You come on here talking about having objective opinions and post an obviously subjective article that's purpose isn't to find truth, but to demonize someone. Have your speculation on whether he was guilty or innocent, but give me a good argument on how you can deny that his trials were unfair. How can you love ratm and not support fair trials, of course no one wants to see innocent people die so why do you wanna see someone who is quite arguably innocent go to jail? did you see what happened that night? i don't think you did
    Last edited by optim13922; 02-13-2007 at 09:16 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    I'm with optim on this one...

  8. #8
    Member tiffdud41's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by fober View Post
    Fuck politics, fuck Bono and fuck any time RATM spend on stage NOT playing music.

    If they wanted to be active they should have stuck around from 2001 on.
    nooo. they should have been politicians....not musicians
    Last edited by tiffdud41; 02-13-2007 at 09:23 PM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by optim13922 View Post
    why don't you guys do some more fuckin research before buying into one article, give me a good argument on how mumia was given a fair trial. Have your speculation on whether he was guilty or innocent, but give me a good argument on how you can deny that his trials were unfair.
    How about ten independent witnesses who identified Mumia as the killer at the scene? Give me a break.

  10. #10
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by optim13922 View Post
    why don't you guys do some more fuckin research before buying into one article, give me a good argument on how mumia was given a fair trial. Have your speculation on whether he was guilty or innocent, but give me a good argument on how you can deny that his trials were unfair.

    Honestly, if the fact is he murdered someone, he doesn't deserve a fair fucking trial.

  11. #11

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    http://www.answers.com/topic/trial-of-mumia-abu-jamal

    here is an objective site with information on the trial that reports information with no emotional opinions on the topic. read that shit and tell me that there wasn't shady shit going down. and whoever said that shit about fair trials and murdering someone, how the fuck can you prove a fact that he murdered someone without a trial? god damn...

    "Finally, in 1996, Tom Ryan and five other officers from the same district went to prison after being convicted of charges in unrelated cases of planting evidence, stealing money from suspects and making false reports. Their convictions resulted in the release of numerous prisoners implicated by the officers."

    there's shit that points towards his guilt and towards his innocence the bottom line is the courts never took into account a lot of this information and evidence which needs to be done when A FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS LIFE IS ON THE LINE! for the sake of the dead cop and mumia who's having his own life taken away for possibly something he didn't even do.
    Last edited by optim13922; 02-13-2007 at 09:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Coachella Junkie bballarl's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    It's everyone's fault but Mumia's. I mean, all he did was kill someone. Let's try to focus attention elsewhere.

  13. #13

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by optim13922 View Post
    http://www.answers.com/topic/trial-of-mumia-abu-jamal

    here is an objective site with information on the trial that reports information with no emotional opinions on the topic. read that shit and tell me that there wasn't shady shit going down. and whoever said that shit about fair trials and murdering someone, how the fuck can you prove a fact that he murdered someone without a trial? god damn...

    "Finally, in 1996, Tom Ryan and five other officers from the same district went to prison after being convicted of charges in unrelated cases of planting evidence, stealing money from suspects and making false reports. Their convictions resulted in the release of numerous prisoners implicated by the officers."

    there's shit that points towards his guilt and towards his innocence the bottom line is the courts never took into account a lot of this information and evidence which needs to be done when A FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS LIFE IS ON THE LINE! for the sake of the dead cop and mumia who's having his own life taken away for possibly something he didn't even do.
    I got four words for you, optim, "beyond a reasonable doubt." Fact is, Mumia was convicted by a jury of honest men and women.

    Newsflash, Mcfly...it's the defense attorney's job to make it seem that cops are crooked individuals who plant evidence. In fact, the defense attorneys in the OJ trial did a good job of that; OJ was acquitted. Irregardless, you don't see RATM having concert fundraisers to pay off OJ's civil judgment due to Nicole Kidman's family. What's up with that?

    I'll tell you why RATM supports the "free mumia" cause, it's because they're conforming to nonconformity - it's popular to be supportive of "historically opressed" people, especially when they are associated with political groups like the Black Panthers.

    But give me a break...even extreme leftist Michael Moore said Mumia is "probably" guilty of murdering the officer. Nuff said.

  14. #14
    old school fober's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    No one gives a shit about Mumia.

    Calm yourself.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, I'm out.

    E

  16. #16

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jorona79 View Post
    I got four words for you, optim, "beyond a reasonable doubt." Fact is, Mumia was convicted by a jury of honest men and women.

    Newsflash, Mcfly...it's the defense attorney's job to make it seem that cops are crooked individuals who plant evidence. In fact, the defense attorneys in the OJ trial did a good job of that; OJ was acquitted. Irregardless, you don't see RATM having concert fundraisers to pay off OJ's civil judgment due to Nicole Kidman's family. What's up with that?
    While I understand politics and activism is not everyone's cup of tea, I hope that one is not naive enough to believe social justice was/is/can be carried out at the same level of equity between an individual such as Mumia and someone with the money that OJ had.

    If you have to have money to play ball in our judicial system, something is absolutely wrong. This is not a statement as to the guilt or innocence or either of the aforementioned people, it is simply a call to recognize that equality of ends or means is not the modus operandi of the American courts.

  17. #17
    Member ToddThaGod's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    so uh..what do you guys think about the new world order?
    What happen if someone make a crime?

  18. #18

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jorona79 View Post
    How about ten independent witnesses who identified Mumia as the killer at the scene? Give me a break.
    How 'bout an ADMITTEDLY BIASED JUDGE presiding over the case?

    Jesus...Do about 35 minutes of actual FACTUAL research into the case, and if you aren't a raging racist and haven't prejudged the case, you can not help but find MULTIPLE reasons Mumia should, AT BARE MINIMUM, be granted AT LEAST a new trial.

    If not set free outright.

    Yeah...no one has ever wrongly imprisoned in our colorblind "Land Of The Free"....right??

    In America...District attorneys never lie just to rack up convictions...right?


    Give ME a break...what planet do you live on? One that plays FoxNews 24/7??
    Last edited by 911wasaninsidejob; 02-13-2007 at 11:18 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by faxman75 View Post
    Honestly, if the fact is he murdered someone, he doesn't deserve a fair fucking trial.
    And exactly how do you in fact determine that someone murdered someone....without a fair trial, Genius...?

  20. #20
    The Encyclopedia bmack86's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Irregardless is not a real word. Just sayin'
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  21. #21
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Another stance, this time about the war. I like this, especially now....

    this was an intro to Bullet in the Head at a concert in Iceland... I thought that it was profound on so many levels....

    "Two years ago in the states complacence ran rampant through the streets. It ran rampant through the neighborhoods and it ran through the whole nation, because once again the leaders and major owners of corporations set forth to take action in the Persion Gulf in the name of freedom. And it was then that they manipulated OPEC to lower prices that made Iraq suffer economically, suffer so bad that there were people starving in the streets there and they did this in the name of freedom. And they employed troops and sent fighter planes murdering over five hundred thousand innocent women and children and men in Iraq and they did it in the name of freedom. And I watched them pump over the airwaves glorification's of this mass murder and it sickened me enough as I sat around and watched my parents and their friends and their friends drive around my neighborhood with little yellow ribbons in commemoration of this fuckin' murder that was taking place and it made myself want to write something about it..."

    -Zack de La Rocha at Reykjavik, Iceland 12-06-1993

    Amazing that in such a short period of time father and son managed to ignore history, and as has been said before by men far nobler than I, do what usually takes centuries- forget the omens throughout times past, and doom themselves to let history repeat itself. But now rather than measuring time in centuries, this time a scant decade will do.

    Way to go guys, those in power prove their genius once again.

  22. #22

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by ADrunkPoet View Post
    While I understand politics and activism is not everyone's cup of tea, I hope that one is not naive enough to believe social justice was/is/can be carried out at the same level of equity between an individual such as Mumia and someone with the money that OJ had.

    If you have to have money to play ball in our judicial system, something is absolutely wrong. This is not a statement as to the guilt or innocence or either of the aforementioned people, it is simply a call to recognize that equality of ends or means is not the modus operandi of the American courts.
    Point well taken, drunkpoet. I agree with you.

    But just so we are clear, I wasn't being "naive" about the weight of the american dollar on our scales of justice, rather I was just illustrating a fascinating paradox in the way two murderers of the same race are perceived. On the one hand you have a convicted killer who is revered by many and on the other you have an exhonerated killer who is reviled by many. Shouldn't this perception be reversed?

    Alas, I digress. The point I'm trying to make is the same question the OJ trial posed - if the defendant did not commit the crime, contrary to mountains of evidence against him, then who did?
    Last edited by jorona79; 02-13-2007 at 11:29 PM.

  23. #23
    Coachella Junkie bballarl's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by 911wasaninsidejob View Post
    And exactly how do you in fact determine that someone murdered someone....without a fair trial, Genius...?
    The same way you determine 9/11 was an inside job. Through hard fact. Oh wait...

    You could be an alias and then I would just be embarassing myself. I hope that isn't the case. Actually that would be funny.

  24. #24

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Mumia probably did it. He did not have a fair trial. The gub'ment shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.
    Just Say No to eurotrash nonsense. Rock n' roll will set you free.

  25. #25

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    In spite of Rage's sometimes questionable political endorsements, I have to applaud the band and all of you who have engaged in this discussion.

    Individuals like Zack and Tom bring hot-button issues like "compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hyopocrisy, brutality, the elite" to the forefront for critical eyes to examine. I truly respect that - that is why I am such a big RATM fan (Not to mention the music kicks ass).

    To close, although I disagree with RATM's "free mumia" cause, I agree with their purpose of exposing a different political perspective to the masses. After all, as the words of Nobel Prize winner Wole Soyinka tell us - "The greatest threat to freedom is the absence of criticism."

  26. #26
    Beef Supreme Mr.Nipples's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkO View Post
    I never bought into their politics or agenda, I just liked the music. I always thought he (Zack) was a whiny fucker anyway.

    If you want to make a difference as a musician in politics, look to Bono as the way to do it.
    BONO!!! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!

  27. #27

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    ....intersting topic....funny how the music and politics issue can be debated to no end. anyhow....a few thoughts:

    - I've been wondering how well zack's ideas beyond their songs are gonna go over. anti-war/political speeches haven't always been received very well at coachella. the beastie boys are a good example...flaming lips too. with both sets, you actually felt things get really awkward in the crowd. of course, more and more people finally see the war in iraq as the steaming heap of dogshit that it is...so perhaps more people will be receptive this year.

    - I always thought rage's perspective was a dead end. I agree with their politics and love their music but there's more to the human experience than just politics. so it made sense to me that they called it quits, because there really wasn't anywhere left to go. sure, they could have written 3 more albums of tight songs...this time about the bush administration, but it would have gotten far too redundant.

    - anyhow, you have to see the coachella show for what it is...a showcase of what they are as a band and what their message is in a pretty contentious time in the country. I think if Zack can keep the speeches concise and witty (as opposed to Wayne Coyne's wandering rants a few years ago) it will all add up pretty well.

  28. #28
    Beef Supreme Mr.Nipples's Avatar
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    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    oh and ballistic tests have already proven that mumia wasnt the shooter... the test was inadmissible in court...fucking bullshit.

  29. #29

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    I agree completely with jorona.

    First and foremost - hearing the political ramblings of musicians in the middle of a show is beyond irritating. I did not pay good money to hear the soapboxing of some lead singer - I paid to hear him sing. If I wanted politics, I would go to an f'ing political rally.

    That being said, Rage has made no secret that their main motivation in making music is to be a political catalyst. Fine, they haven't minced words about that motivation from day one.

    But - their causes are questionable at best. Aside from this Mumia case, but extremely similar, was the case of Leonard Peltier, which was featured in the Freedom video - the guy murdered two FBI agents, bottom line.

    Why these guys choose to repeatedly defend people who murder government agents is beyond me. This is America, so everyone has a right to free speech and a fair trial - but Rage takes their idealogies to a level that is beyond militant and revolutionary.

    But yes, expect ridiculous amounts of inflammatory anti-Bush and anti-American hatred spewing from Zack's mouth all night.

  30. #30

    Default Re: RATM's crappy politics

    Quote Originally Posted by bballarl View Post
    The same way you determine 9/11 was an inside job. Through hard fact. Oh wait...

    You could be an alias and then I would just be embarassing myself. I hope that isn't the case. Actually that would be funny.
    Have you done any of your own research into the events of 9/11?

    Just curious...

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