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Thread: EFF MATH!!

  1. #121
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Shut up.

  2. #122

    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sbessiso View Post
    I'm glad you guys are having a nice little discussion here. I just needed to vent, I understand the importance of math I really do. It really is a kryptonite to me though. I just wish I didnt have to take any classes. And what is really bumming me out is the fact that the class im in now is the one right below first level college algebra. So after I pass this (assuming), I still have TWO more math credits to take. Its just so tough
    Whats your major? Chem, Engineering, Bio? I think I might be in the same level of math as you right now. I have the current math, then at CSUF Math 150A & 150B.

    I tried to place into them, but missed it by 3 points. Fuck the fat bitch in the math department. GET OFF YOUR FUCKING CHAIR AND EXERCISE YOU CUNT!
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    Don't ever use Paul's name again in a posting. YOU GOT THAT YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER? Paul was making his bones in the business back when you were just cum in your mother's ear.

  3. #123
    Coachella Junkie BlackSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    You can debate the details all you want, when it comes down to it this is still lying beneath it all...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSwan View Post
    At the most basic level, math, like everything else, is still dependent on the degree to which humans can accurately perceive existence around them.
    .

  4. #124
    Coachella Junkie boarderwoozel3's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    it describes this part right here. ----->


    ...I think we are talking about the same things. but what I refer to as 'reality' you refer to as 'mathematics', and what I refer to as 'mathematics' you refer to as 'the perception of mathematics'. if you make that translation we seem to be saying the same exact thing.

    I just refuse to refer to a human language as if it is independent of us. it's awfully big headed.
    Of course human language isn't independent of us. It's an arbitrary human construct for communication.

  5. #125
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    every mathematical system has a fixed set of premises and rules. and mathematicians spend forever learning the implications of those premises. they discover new properties (and prove suspected but previously unproven ones) all the time. math isn't static, we're contantly building upon what we know, and discovering new things. and that's never going to end. math is not just a fixed set of laws.
    See I disagree with this and here's why. If what you said were true, then people in Bora Bora would have come up with different premises and rules than people in Leipzig. They'd have a different mathematics with different results. In actuality, while one culture may be further along than another in the understanding of mathematics, what mathematics they do have in common is the same -- they agree with each other. It's not 2+2=4 in one place and 2+2=5 in another.

    This is why the language analogy doesn't work for me either.
    Last edited by TomAz; 02-12-2009 at 12:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  6. #126

    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    I hope your heads explode with.
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbastard View Post
    Don't ever use Paul's name again in a posting. YOU GOT THAT YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER? Paul was making his bones in the business back when you were just cum in your mother's ear.

  7. #127

    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    See I disagree with this and here's why. If what you said were true, then people in Bora Bora would have come up with different premises and rules than people in Leipzig. They'd have a different mathematics with different results. In actuality, while one culture may be further along than another in the understanding of mathematics, but, what mathematics they do have in common is the same -- they agree with each other. It's not 2+2=4 in one place and 2+2=5 in another.

    This is why the language analogy doesn't work for me either.
    Get a PhD in math and you get asked why is 2+2equal to 4
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbastard View Post
    Don't ever use Paul's name again in a posting. YOU GOT THAT YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER? Paul was making his bones in the business back when you were just cum in your mother's ear.

  8. #128
    DJ SallyBear sbessiso's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vogina View Post
    Whats your major? Chem, Engineering, Bio? I think I might be in the same level of math as you right now. I have the current math, then at CSUF Math 150A & 150B.

    I tried to place into them, but missed it by 3 points. Fuck the fat bitch in the math department. GET OFF YOUR FUCKING CHAIR AND EXERCISE YOU CUNT!
    Dude, not even. Right now i'm officially a journalism major. I dont want math!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbastard View Post
    Nice.

    ADont you think that i'm bound to react now??
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Coyne
    People treat Arcade Fire like they're the greatest thing ever and they get away with it.

  9. #129
    Coachella Junkie shakermaker113's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    See I disagree with this and here's why. If what you said were true, then people in Bora Bora would have come up with different premises and rules than people in Leipzig. They'd have a different mathematics with different results. In actuality, while one culture may be further along than another in the understanding of mathematics, but, what mathematics they do have in common is the same -- they agree with each other. It's not 2+2=4 in one place and 2+2=5 in another.

    This is why the language analogy doesn't work for me either.
    if you start with different premises you get different results. a lot of the things we take to be "fact" (e.g. that the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degress) are only actually facts in euclidian space. if you work in a non euclidian space (i.e. you start with different premises) you have different results. all mathetmatical truths are relative to their premises. i.e. "if a and b are true, then c follows...".

  10. #130
    Coachella Junkie locachica73's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sbessiso View Post
    Dude, not even. Right now i'm officially a journalism major. I dont want math!!
    This is why I have a hard time with they typical college. I took a course at a trade school to learn all I could about computers so that I could get a job outside of the factory. They offered me computerized accounting as well which I took. I hated accounting for the record but my first job outside of college was with a construction company and they quickly had me start doing some of their accounting. I ended up in construction accounting for the next 7 years. I worked my way up to Senior Project Accountant and was doing the work of the assistant controller. My company, at the time, had a strict no degree no promotion rule. They wanted me to get my accounting degree to move up to the next level. I started to look into it and would have had to take English 101 and several other lame classes that had nothing to do with what I wanted to learn. I declined because at the time, having two young kids and a full time job and husband I just didn't have the time. I ended up changing fields because I realized that it is mostly women in accounting and I have a hard time dealing with alot of women. I am glad with the choices I made in life but still get frustrated with the whole thing when I think about it. The promotion would have been a significant pay increase but I just didn't want to go through the entire hassle of 4 years plus just to do work I was already capable of doing.
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  11. #131
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    whats 2+2? jello.

  12. #132
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    if you start with different premises you get different results. a lot of the things we take to be "fact" (e.g. that the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degress) are only actually facts in euclidian space. if you work in a non euclidian space (i.e. you start with different premises) you have different results. all mathetmatical truths are relative to their premises. i.e. "if a and b are true, then c follows...".
    You totally missed my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  13. #133
    Coachella Junkie boarderwoozel3's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    if you start with different premises you get different results. a lot of the things we take to be "fact" (e.g. that the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degress) are only actually facts in euclidian space. if you work in a non euclidian space (i.e. you start with different premises) you have different results. all mathetmatical truths are relative to their premises. i.e. "if a and b are true, then c follows...".
    That's the thing about math, everyone starts with the same premises and rules, that's why it's universal/fact/law. Math has no dialect or different ways to say the same thing, you apply a rule or you don't.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    shaker... check out the default thread.
    .

  15. #135
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    See I disagree with this and here's why. If what you said were true, then people in Bora Bora would have come up with different premises and rules than people in Leipzig. They'd have a different mathematics with different results. In actuality, while one culture may be further along than another in the understanding of mathematics, what mathematics they do have in common is the same -- they agree with each other. It's not 2+2=4 in one place and 2+2=5 in another.

    This is why the language analogy doesn't work for me either.
    Some cultures have different systems of numbers though, in which case the possibility for translation is non-existent until a base system of relationships is established.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  16. #136
    Coachella Junkie shakermaker113's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    You totally missed my point.
    no I didn't. you disagreed with me. then I reinforced my point.

    you also deduced from my post that people in Bora Bora would have different math. I didn't comment on that because it's actually not a logical conclusion from what I said, and was missing my point. what I said was that if you start from different premises you have different results. that doesn't mean people in Bora Bora will start from different premises. and if they found the same things we did then they must have been working under the same premises.

    Quote Originally Posted by boarderwoozel3 View Post
    That's the thing about math, everyone starts with the same premises and rules, that's why it's universal/fact/law. Math has no dialect or different ways to say the same thing, you apply a rule or you don't.
    I already pointed out that there are systems that start from different premises and rules. Randy pointed that out too. and math has many different ways to say the same thing.

    I'm not saying the things mathematics proves aren't true or wouldn't be true if we weren't around. of course they would still be true. but mathematics itself is our language. we created it to describe complex relationship that we witness.
    Last edited by shakermaker113; 02-12-2009 at 01:23 PM.

  17. #137
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Some cultures have different systems of numbers though, in which case the possibility for translation is non-existent until a base system of relationships is established.
    I've said previously that different cultures may write their mathematics down differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  18. #138
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Right, but I don't understand how that makes it especially different than any other kind of language. Do the Chinese write their mathematics from right to left?
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    we created it to describe complex relationship that we witness.
    Bingo.
    .

  20. #140
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    that doesn't mean people in Bora Bora will start from different premises. and if they found the same things we did then they must have been working under the same presmises.
    You're kidding me now, right?

    Why would people in a totally different culture with little or no contact (until relatively recently) with the rest of the world develop the exact same set of "premises"? Are you gonna tell me it's because we all share the same gravitational constant or some bullshit like that?


    Your 'non-euclidean space' example totally missed the point. Euclidean vs. Non-Euclidean space is not a "premise", it is a condition of fact. the fact is that the mathematical law which states that "the sum of the angles of a triangle in euclidean space equals 180 degrees" is absolutely independent of any "premise". You can't show me any alternative "premise" which makes triangles add up to 190 degrees under those conditions. Unless you want to play semantic games and talk about 4-sided triangles or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  21. #141
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Right, but I don't understand how that makes it especially different than any other kind of language. Do the Chinese write their mathematics from right to left?
    The writing of the mathematics is not the same as the mathematics itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  22. #142
    Coachella Junkie boarderwoozel3's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker113 View Post
    no I didn't. you disagreed with me. then I reinforced my point.

    you also deduced from my point that people in Bora Bora would have different math. I didn't comment on that because it's actually not a logical conclusion from what I said, and was missing my point. what I said was that if you start from different premises you have different results. that doesn't mean people in Bora Bora will start from different premises. and if they found the same things we did then they must have been working under the same premises.



    I already pointed out that there are systems that start from different premises and rules. Randy pointed that out too. and math has many different ways to say the same thing.

    I'm not saying the things mathematics proves aren't true or wouldn't be true if we weren't around. of course they would still be true. but mathematics itself is our language. we created it to describe complex relationship that we witness.
    Huh? Isn't that a contradiction or would it not mean that one of the systems is wrong if they're going to produce different results to the same problem?

    Anyway, my sticking point in all of this is that math is not a language because one of the fundamental aspects of language is its arbitrary nature. Math is not arbitrary, the symbols and signs we use to represent the rules are but the rules themselves are set in stone. It simply explains the physical relationships of the world around us, yes? Physics indicates that there isn't too much wiggle room in those physical relationships.

  23. #143
    Coachella Junkie fatbastard's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    1 cup of uncooked rice + 2 cups of water = cooked rice
    Whiskey Sour

    2 oz blended whiskey
    Juice of 1/2 lemon
    1/2 tsp powdered sugar
    1 cherry
    1/2 slice lemon

    Shake blended whiskey, juice of lemon, and powdered sugar with ice and strain into a whiskey sour glass. Decorate with the half-slice of lemon, top with the cherry, and serve.

  24. #144
    Coachella Junkie locachica73's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    yes, but how many cups of cooked rice???? that is the question.
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  25. #145
    Coachella Junkie boarderwoozel3's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Right, but I don't understand how that makes it especially different than any other kind of language. Do the Chinese write their mathematics from right to left?
    It's different because in terms of grammar, there are many different strategies possible for marking the relationship between the different nouns of a sentence. Why languages follow one or another strategy is arbitrary, not based not on any natural (biological or physical) reasoning--like math--but on mere accidents of historical variation.

    French vs. English vs. Thai for example.

  26. #146
    Coachella Junkie fatbastard's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    I'll answer this question in 20 minutes.
    Whiskey Sour

    2 oz blended whiskey
    Juice of 1/2 lemon
    1/2 tsp powdered sugar
    1 cherry
    1/2 slice lemon

    Shake blended whiskey, juice of lemon, and powdered sugar with ice and strain into a whiskey sour glass. Decorate with the half-slice of lemon, top with the cherry, and serve.

  27. #147
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by boarderwoozel3 View Post
    It's different because in terms of grammar, there are many different strategies possible for marking the relationship between the different nouns of a sentence. Why languages follow one or another strategy is arbitrary, not based not on any natural (biological or physical) reasoning--like math--but on mere accidents of historical variation.

    French vs. English vs. Thai for example.
    Right, but this is because there are infinitely more nuanced variations of the matter that needs to be related in language than in math.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  28. #148
    Coachella Junkie boarderwoozel3's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbastard View Post
    I'll answer this question in 20 minutes.
    I had to look up Euclidean vs. Non-Euclidean space. Definitely learned something new today.

  29. #149
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!

    Sumthing in this thread just doesn't add up.
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  30. #150
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    Default Re: EFF MATH!!


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