NCAA Hoops

[nothingman00]

Just wondering if anyone has been following Kevin Durant (freshman from University of Texas) closely. As a UT grad and rabid fan, I can't really explain how good he is without veering towards a severely biased point of view. Last night, he put up a 37-23 and outscored Texas Tech's entire team by 2 in the second half. Granted, we only get one season out of him, but it's worth it.

[GAMBLAHOLIC]

durant's been having a good season, but all that talk about him being better than oden is nonsense.

and screw ut.....gooooo usc.....i hate vince young with a passion....i couldn't go on espn for like 1 month cuz i wanted to avoid any articles on usc's loss in the rose bowl

[nothingman00]

Well, you certainly aren't letting bias come into your Oden over Durant argument, are you?

P.S. I can't wait to throw in my 2006 Rose Bowl DVD tonight. It feels really good watching Vince Young absolutely own your entire team, watching Pete Carroll make stupid decisions to cost his team the game... Definitely the best national championship game since the BCS inception, arguably the best college football game ever.

And yes, Durant is better than Oden. I'll say it without any doubt.

[DeltaSigChi4]

Oden > Durant

Period.

E

[nahuatldream]

U-C-L-A!!!

[nothingman00]

Wow, you totally convinced me!

Seriously, here are Oden's stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=31545

Here are Durant's:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=31579

Durant is averaging 10 more points per game and 2 more rebounds per game (despite Oden playing Center)

Really, they are both going to be great players, but Durant is more dominant. Oden has scored over 25 points in just 1 game all season, Durant has topped 25 in 8 of his last 9 games, 5 of those have been 34 or higher.

[xxxxxxxxxx]

Stanford, bitches. Gotta love the Lopez brothers.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Go Duke!!!

We lost tonight...

[DeltaSigChi4]

Stats don;t means shit.

Stanford is the biggest pile of shit in the rankings. Right up there with air farce.

Can't shoot fts if their trustfunds were on the line with each shot.

They fucking suck!!! Pathetic losers can't even hang with Gonzaga!

E

[Carlo Von Sexron]

durant's been having a good season, but all that talk about him being better than oden is nonsense.

Give me a break, you homer. Oden isn't playing up to expectations. Durant put up 37-23?! Are you kidding? Oden should try putting that much effort into all his games.

As for U of Arizona...What the hell is wrong with them? They're pissing me off with this second half debacle. Looks like they're headed straight for another first-round loss.

And if the tourney started today, I'm taking UNC. Roy Williams seems to have lit a fire under their ass and they are beating down teams and taking their souls. That's a little dramatic, but they are really owning some pretty good teams lately.

[bmack86]

UCLA. We've got it this year.

[GAMBLAHOLIC]

considering oden is playing with his left hand - his off hand - including shooting ft's with his left, i say his stats are pretty good. once oden gets use of this right hand he will be putting up 37-23 on a nightly basis. plus durant can't play no d

[TomAz]

You people don't know how to argue to save yourselves. "They suck. Period!!" is not a cogent argument. You would think that they would teach you that at UCLA. maybe that's for grad school?

Nothingman -- interesting -- radio here in PHX was debating the Durant v Odem question last night. Consensus was that Odem will be the 1st pick but Durant could well be the name everyone remembers 10 years from now.

[bug on your lip]

you can teach shooting
you can't teach height & speed

if you think in the long run that Durant will be a better player than Oden, then you're a good damn fool. and you'd be better served to keep your ignorant mouth shut otherwise you exponentially increase your reputation as a god damn fool.

[TomAz]

you can teach shooting
you can't teach height & speed

this is the logic that got Sam Bowie drafted ahead of Michael Jordan.

[bug on your lip]

yeah and Durant is Michael Jordan

[TomAz]

nobody knew that Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan until after the draft.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

nobody knew that Darko Milicic was Darko Milicic until after the draft

[bug on your lip]

i've seen enough bball games in my life to recognize that Oden is a god damn freak of nature. He's huge, tremendous vert and swats anything in the paint. quick on transition defense.
How many players of his size & ability come around every 10 years !?!?
i mean seriously. do you even watch basketball or are just repeating what some square said on your local sports talk dial ?
some of your are so god damn ignorant

Durant buzz is the same as Sebastian Telfair buzz.
high scoring, no defense jump shooter.... yeah, the fukkin NBA is deficient in those skills.

you don't know basketball and should seriously move on to a different thread.

[nothingman00]

Bug, I normally put up with your posts, but you're dead wrong here. I've watched the majority of the UT games this season, and Durant can play. He is 6'9"-6'10" (making the Telfair comparison seem utterly stupid), he takes it to the hole (not just a jump shooter), and he's fukking outrebounding Oden. If Oden is such a force then why is he averaging 2 less boards per game than Durant? He put up a 37-23 and led the team with 3 steals (pretty good for a guy who can't play D, huh?). On that D-note, he's also averaging nearly 2 Blocked shots per game and 1.5 steals. He's had 4 or more blocks in 5 different games.

And yeah, your size argument just sucks in every aspect, and for you to call me out as someone who doesn't know basketball is just inane. I'm a gambling junky and college hoops is my area of expertise, for god's sake. Fridays are marginal betting days because the slate is pretty thin with mostly Ivy League games going on (hence no loose lines on Friday as the oddsmakers cap the few games exceptionally well). Only play I'm making is Manhattan +5 today. Playing the "You don't know what you're talking about card" only works if you're talking to someone who actually doesn't know what they're talking about.

This is from a Chad Ford article on espn.com.

I was flooded with e-mails over my recent column comparing Greg Oden, Kevin Durant and Joakim Noah as potential No. 1 picks in the 2007 NBA Draft.

The most interesting e-mail came from ESPN.com columnist Bill Simmons. While Bill agreed with the bulk of the article, he thought I got it all wrong on the question of who had the most upside.

According to Bill, "Durant has more upside than Oden and it's not even disputable."

Bill went on to write, "I think Oden could be one of the top-5 centers ever, but Durant could be one of the top PLAYERS ever. Huge difference. Not saying it will happen, but that's absolutely his ceiling. That's why I think he has more upside than Oden."

Bill has a great point about Durant -- he really does have that kind of talent. And most of the NBA GMs and scouts I've spoke with agree that Durant is the better talent.

So, assuming that Bill is right about Durant's potential to be one of the best ever, this conversation comes down to how you define "upside."

Since upside is all about perception, it's tough to nail it down with facts and figures. It's more a matter of interpretation.

If upside means individual performance, then Durant is the man -- he has the chance to be a player that redefines his position, a la Magic, Barkley and Garnett.

But why do most NBA teams currently lean toward Oden as the No. 1 pick?

Here's where the other interpretation of "upside" comes into play. For many GMs and fans "upside" means individual performance plus the overall impact on a team's success.

The perception among NBA GMs -- and fans, too -- is that a great center gives you the surest route to an NBA title. We all know the legendary names -- Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Walton, Moses, Hakeem, Shaq, and more recently Robinson and Duncan (who both fit the basic profile of the dominant center).

The idea that a great center guarantees you at least 50 wins and a shot at the championship is prevalent still in the league.

Meanwhile, GMs just don't have the same faith in players like Kevin Garnett and Charles Barkley. Fairly or unfairly, they are seen as a piece of the puzzle.

We all know there are plenty of exceptions. Michael Jordan (drafted after big men Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie) won six titles without much help in the middle. Patrick Ewing never won a title. Hakeem never won 60 games in a season. The 2005-06 Heat were more D-Wade's team than Shaq's team. And so on.

But even in an era when Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe Bryant are the frontrunners for the MVP award, and even with Durant on pace to win the college player of the year awards as a freshman, the strong impression I have is that most GMs -- and fans -- are praying for Oden.

That tells you just how important the center is in the basketball mind.

And this is from Bill Simmons in espn.the mag (note, Bill has also been watching UT and OSU games all season:
I'm just a little depressed because the Celtics stink again. Fortunately, we stink to the point that we're now the leading contenders for the Kevin Durant-Greg Oden Sweepstakes. (Yeah, I know I put Durant first even though Oden is the consensus No. 1. Just know that I factored in the upcoming March Madness tournament when Durant averages a 35-13 for two straight weeks and nearly wins the national title by himself, followed by three straight months of, "Wait, this guy is a rich man's KG, he might be better than Oden!" stories and features. If you don't believe me, watch Durant for a few games. He's going to be very, VERY famous some day. You can say you knew him when.) Now I'm openly rooting against the Celtics and TiVo-ing every game involving everyone on Chad Ford's top 350.

And then, Simmons posted the following paragraph a few days ago:
"If you didn't notice, Kevin Durant threw up a 37-23 against Texas Tech. We're now at the point where, if the Celtics got the No. 1 and drafted Oden, I would be legitimately devastated. Warrants mentioning."

Then again, bug, I guess these guys know nothing about basketball either...

P.S. watch Durant play on ABC tomorrow (3:30 EST I believe) and then get back to me.

[vinylmartyr]

to many words

[bug on your lip]

Sebastian Telfair buzz = scores 30+ is some high school/college game and suddenly people cream their pants
Durant buzz = see above


i've never been wrong about sports ever in my life. i'm an immortal..
you're in over your head on this one. that's ok, i'm feeling benevolent today.

[bug on your lip]

"The 2005-06 Heat were more D-Wade's team than Shaq's team. And so on."

gayest thing i've ever heard..

you know what D-wade would be without Shaq ?

answer: Kobe Byrant and/or Penny Hardaway

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I'm a Heat fan. The 2005-06 Heat were more D-Wade's team than Shaq's team. Trust me.

That doesn't mean he can win a championship alone. It just means he's the main man.

[vinylmartyr]

Mabs i'm a Clemson fan. Thanks for robbing us.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Hey, glad to do it. You're welcome.

[bug on your lip]

Question.
I get open looks & lanes because Shaq is being double/triple teamed. Who am I ?

A) D-wade
B) Kobe
C) Penny Hardaway
D) ALL OF THE ABOVE

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I'll go with D, though teams never triple Shaq these days, and they only double him about half the time. For that matter, the Pistons always chose to play him straight up.

But still...Dwyane Wade is the guy who makes this team's offense click. His numbers really don't change whether Shaq is in or out. The difference is that when Shaq is in he actually has someone decent to pass the ball to.

This is a debate we had down here back in '04-'05, and parts of last year. But since the start of 2006, the city of Miami has considered this issue more or less resolved. And, yes, I do speak for the city of Miami. Holla!

[GAMBLAHOLIC]

From ESPN

By Kieran Darcy

4. D-FENSE
The big fella (Oden) is averaging 3.6 blocked shots per game, and altering a whole lot more. You don't see too many guys drive on him, and he's got enough lateral quickness to be a good help defender. Listen, if Bill Russell's name is coming up in conversations about Oden – and it is – Mr. Oden can play some serious D. Kevin Durant … well, no one's really talking about his D.

Anyways Durant is good and will probably be a star in the NBA, but i definitely can see Oden dominating the league. Here's whole article debating the Oden vs Durant issue


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ndurant/070126

[mountmccabe]

As for U of Arizona...What the hell is wrong with them? They're pissing me off with this second half debacle. Looks like they're headed straight for another first-round loss.

Yeah this season has been very frustrating. There are bright spots and players on streaks but damn there's a lot of losses to teams we shouldn't be losing to.