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Thread: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

  1. #151
    old school kroqken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Now that OBama is president, I see a revival of "intelligent politics." Bush was a moron and good riddance. May he and his cronies face criminal charges.

  2. #152
    Wheelchair Epidemic hawkingvsreeve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Hi Ken.
    Quote Originally Posted by obzen View Post
    Giant. Fucking. Bjork. Buttons.
    last.fm

  3. #153
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    YAY A BLACK GUY!! IM HAPPY!!!

  4. #154
    old school kroqken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Obama is half white too. I think he will be 87% successful by the end of his first term.

  5. #155

    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    So an agreement has been reached between the house and senate on the Stimulus Plan and it looks like it will be signed into law on monday. The final price tag came down to about 789 Billion dollars about 50-100 Billion dollars lower than the initial senate and house bills. Tax cuts were trimmed from the senate bill and some of the school refitting/state support spending was returned from the original house bill.

    On top of that it looks like this going to be the first step followed by billions-trillions more spending to support financial institutions in an effort to restabilize economic conditions.

    Thoughts on the process? Can goverment even make a difference or is the U.S. (and world) economy destined to reorganize itself into a new world order no matter how much money is thrown at it?

  6. #156
    Young blood
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Novus Ordo Seclorum.

    It has begun.

  7. #157
    Coachella Junkie M Sparks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    I think the idea of directly creating jobs that improve the world seems like it can only be a good thing. If you can put someone to work helping to build a wind-farm, that's a win-win.

    Throwing money at the banks seems less sensible, but who knows. I'd almost rather see them use that money to pump up the FDIC insurance. Let the weakest banks fail, give people their money back, and let them take it to a stronger bank.

  8. #158
    Coachella Junkie BlackSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    .

  9. #159
    Act Like You Know real talk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Are they going to send me a check?

    I mean, I got laid off, I'm in dire straits...so I'm supposed to go build windmills? Seriously?
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    You were right. I was wrong.

  10. #160
    Young blood
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    holland and shit.

  11. #161
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    I have an actually reasonable solution to this entire economic problem, but nobody would ever go for it.

    Sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  12. #162
    Act Like You Know real talk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Does it involve sending me a box of money because I promise I would spend it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    You were right. I was wrong.

  13. #163
    Coachella Junkie BlackSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by real talk View Post
    I mean, I got laid off, I'm in dire straits...so I'm supposed to go build windmills? Seriously?
    You need to believe in yourself before Obama will believe in you.
    .

  14. #164
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by real talk View Post
    Are they going to send me a check?

    I mean, I got laid off, I'm in dire straits...so I'm supposed to go build windmills? Seriously?
    not windmills, but toy arrows

    i have yet to read what went through, but banking and credit in general need a complete overhaul. i also feel that the definition of middle class will drastically change. who can afford to be middle class anymore? did anyone see that yahoo report on how much it costs to live "middle class" in new york?

    i'm sure i'll find out more about how this will effect higher education at our quarterly meeting on friday, that's the part that affects me the most i guess.

    i think there will be an overall change in the world financial system after this. we are long overdue. i'm a bit afraid of russia right now though, what the fuck are they doing?! i guess it's a race to see who collapses first at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  15. #165
    Young blood
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    I have an actually reasonable solution to this entire economic problem, but nobody would ever go for it.

    Sad.
    Please tell us.



    so we all can giggle.

  16. #166
    Coachella Junkie BlackSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    .

  17. #167
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Okay, here's the real solution:

    Right now they're bailing out the banks who lost money on bad loans, which is a fucking crock because if you owe creditors money you're still responsible to pay it. Thus the banks are getting paid on these debts twice--once in the bailout, and again (theoretically) when people try to struggle their way out of these debts.

    So here's a real simple answer: instead of paying the banks, pay off everyone's debt. Wipe it to zero. With some exceptions sure, or some kind of slide rule effect that will best determine how it would be done, but there you go. The banks get paid on their debts and don't have to go under AND the people actually benefit from it. People get their credit back and thus can start really re-investing in the economy. Impose restrictions on the banks and crediting industries to ensure fair practices that will avoid this mistake again in the future.

    /crisis
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  18. #168
    Young blood
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    That sounds like a good idea, but you cannot hide debt. Its not as simple as wiping it clean. If you start clearing the debt of a few then everyone will want a piece. Chaos in finacial markets. Im not an economist, but I do know that trying to wipe debt clean without the repayment of past debts would cause a total collapse.

    Banks rely on other banks to borrow capital and so on. If you start saying bad debts don't have to be repaid and its a domino effect.

    On the same hand the domino effect has already began because no one can pay back debt right now.

    We're fucked.

    My dad grew up during the depression and he says he sees it being much worse now compared to back then.

    We had WWII to help us out back then.
    Last edited by Young blood; 02-11-2009 at 01:52 PM.

  19. #169
    Coachella Junkie BlackSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    It doesn't sound like a bad idea in theory, but I can see why it hasn't been done.
    .

  20. #170
    Coachella Junkie M Sparks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by real talk View Post
    I mean, I got laid off, I'm in dire straits...so I'm supposed to go build windmills? Seriously?
    No, someone who has more initiative and drive will go build windmills. You will get the job at Walmart they would have beat you out for if they hadn't gone to do something useful.

  21. #171
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    even wal-mart is laying off at the corporate level. crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  22. #172
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Okay, here's the real solution:

    Right now they're bailing out the banks who lost money on bad loans, which is a fucking crock because if you owe creditors money you're still responsible to pay it. Thus the banks are getting paid on these debts twice--once in the bailout, and again (theoretically) when people try to struggle their way out of these debts.

    So here's a real simple answer: instead of paying the banks, pay off everyone's debt. Wipe it to zero. With some exceptions sure, or some kind of slide rule effect that will best determine how it would be done, but there you go. The banks get paid on their debts and don't have to go under AND the people actually benefit from it. People get their credit back and thus can start really re-investing in the economy. Impose restrictions on the banks and crediting industries to ensure fair practices that will avoid this mistake again in the future.

    /crisis
    we already live in a culture of entitlement mentalities. lets feed that fire.

  23. #173
    Coachella Junkie Monklish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young blood View Post
    That sounds like a good idea, but you cannot hide debt. Its not as simple as wiping it clean. If you start clearing the debt of a few then everyone will want a piece. Chaos in finacial markets. Im not an economist, but I do know that trying to wipe debt clean without the repayment of past debts would cause a total collapse.

    Banks rely on other banks to borrow capital and so on. If you start saying bad debts don't have to be repaid and its a domino effect.

    On the same hand the domino effect has already began because no one can pay back debt right now.

    We're fucked.

    My dad grew up during the depression and he says he sees it being much worse now compared to back then.

    We had WWII to help us out back then.
    It's not any worse than what's currently happening. My point is just if we can throw 1 trillion dollars at the banks to help them stay afloat because they made bad choices, why can't we throw the same money at the people's debts to said banks? Same effect is achieved--banks get bailed out. Except my way the people get bailed out too. You get twice as much impact out of the same amount of money.

    The reason it hasn't been done is the banks want to be bailed out AND collect on all the money they're owed too. They want to get twice as much and the populous to get nothing. Fuck that shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    Fuck you and fuck Haiti.

  24. #174
    zeezus amyzzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    I'm going over to the ostrich thread. I've stopped listening to the news. Too depressing.

  25. #175
    Coachella Junkie M Sparks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Monklish View Post
    So here's a real simple answer: instead of paying the banks, pay off everyone's debt. Wipe it to zero. With some exceptions sure, or some kind of slide rule effect that will best determine how it would be done, but there you go. The banks get paid on their debts and don't have to go under AND the people actually benefit from it. People get their credit back and thus can start really re-investing in the economy. Impose restrictions on the banks and crediting industries to ensure fair practices that will avoid this mistake again in the future.
    I've heard that idea before...it's actually great, but "wiping it to zero" would be a staggering amount of money.

    How about this though...what about all those times they sent everyone a flat $600, like that's going to matter. Instead of a check, you send every taxpayer a voucher. They put the account information for a creditor on the voucher, and the government sends the money directly to the bank. AND, if it's a credit card or line of credit, the banks then also reduce your credit line by the same amount, so people don't just go charge it right back up.

    Everyone still gets their "free money", it's just money that they've already spent. Everyone gets a little more out of debt. The banks get their huge influx of capital. And the banks also reduce their risk, because everyone's credit limit goes down.

    Take the rest of the original bailout funds and split it up...it's about $1000 a person.

  26. #176
    Coachella Junkie BlackSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    If the government did that most people would just complain that it is not enough.
    .

  27. #177
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    and what about those of us with no debt who are scraping by? we get nothing?

    that's the other side to bailling out the people in crisis, what about the people actually making sacrafices? what do they get?
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  28. #178
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    we get nothing?
    what do they get?
    is exactly what would happen. its whats happening now.

  29. #179
    Act Like You Know real talk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M Sparks View Post
    No, someone who has more initiative and drive will go build windmills. You will get the job at Walmart they would have beat you out for if they hadn't gone to do something useful.
    Surprise, you're a dick.
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    You were right. I was wrong.

  30. #180
    Coachella Junkie algunz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Politics Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    i also feel that the definition of middle class will drastically change. who can afford to be middle class anymore? did anyone see that yahoo report on how much it costs to live "middle class" in new york?
    Seriously, we're a two income household with a child, and we're stretching every month.

    The logistics of paying off every individual's debt would cost way more just with the labor and paperwork. Beaurocracy is the devil.

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