View Poll Results: Who Is More Pretentious?

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  • The Mars Volta

    100 76.34%
  • Mogwai

    31 23.66%
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Thread: Who Is More Pretentious?

  1. #31
    Coachella Junkie faxman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    To me Mogwai is anything but pretentious. I love their music. Not sure how I feel about the Mars Volta.

  2. #32
    Member jonnypark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    I also thought this was gonna be about board memebers.
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  3. #33
    Coachella Junkie rage patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    I am still at school, so I haven't been able to watch any of the youtube video yet, but I plan to when I get home. And Luckyface, I have heard a couple other songs I downloaded a few months ago... and like the 3 I just listened too, they did nothing for me. So I had no interest in looking into them further.
    I knew this would be a loosing battle. A poll would be pointless. Its all just a matter of perspective. If poll was on, for example, the Bonnaroo board, I am sure the results would be quite the oposite.

    So lucky, I have a question for you. Have you even listened to an entire Mars Volta album? Or have you only seen them live? Because I have heard they are very hit and miss live. However, the two times I saw them live, they absolutely slayed.
    So, heres my deal lucky. If you listen to De-Loused in The Comatorium in its entirety, I will listen to any Mogwai album of your choice in its entirety. I give a good couple solid listens. Hell, If you listen to Frances The Mute as well, I will listen to any two Mogwai albums of your choice.
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  4. #34
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    I am still at school, so I haven't been able to watch any of the youtube video yet, but I plan to when I get home. And Luckyface, I have heard a couple other songs I downloaded a few months ago... and like the 3 I just listened too, they did nothing for me. So I had no interest in looking into them further.
    I knew this would be a loosing battle. A poll would be pointless. Its all just a matter of perspective. If poll was on, for example, the Bonnaroo board, I am sure the results would be quite the oposite.

    So lucky, I have a question for you. Have you even listened to an entire Mars Volta album? Or have you only seen them live? Because I have heard they are very hit and miss live. However, the two times I saw them live, they absolutely slayed.
    So, heres my deal lucky. If you listen to De-Loused in The Comatorium in its entirety, I will listen to any Mogwai album of your choice in its entirety. I give a good couple solid listens. Hell, If you listen to Frances The Mute as well, I will listen to any two Mogwai albums of your choice.
    I can't imagine any different results on the Bonnaroo board.

    Also I'm not Rocke but I bought De Loused when it came out and then Frances too. I really like De-Loused, though I haven't listened to it in a while. And I saw them at Coachella in 2003 and loved the performance. I never quite absorbed Frances though and haven't kept up with their new releases.

    That has nothing to do with them not being pretentious. Overblown concept albums and broadly varied, wild instrumentation definitely raise pretension flags.

    Pretentious does not mean bad. Pretentious does not mean "not rocking." Pretentious just means falsely important, ostentatious.
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  5. #35
    Member Melanie.Dawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    I'm sure many will argue with me, but Deloused in my opinion is the single greatest cd put out during my lifetime... a short but valid 23 years. That cd is amazing. I kinda feel like people who don't like it just really didn't give it a good listen... or don't get it... but it's so good there's not a lot to get. I can see people saying 'you just dont get Frances' as an excuse from fans... but deloused... in my mind, if you don't get it... you don't really get music. A bold statment I know.. but it's how I feel. I feel like it seperates hipsters from real music lovers.

  6. #36
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Rage, it seems like your argument is that Mogwai is boring therefore they are pretentious. You can't see what people would like about their music thus it is "art rock."

    And a bunch of people that don't find Mogwai boring are responding saying that you're crazy.

    There is an element of pretense to Mogwai's music... long instrumental songs raise pretension flags too. But that isn't how the discussion is framed; the question is who is more pretentious, Mogwai or the Mars Volta.

    Are you trying to say that the Mars Volta are not pretentious? Would you use words like simple or restrained to refer to the Mars Volta's music? Are their lyrics straightforward and clear? Are the band leaders humble?
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  7. #37
    Coachella Junkie luckyface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    I am still at school, so I haven't been able to watch any of the youtube video yet, but I plan to when I get home. And Luckyface, I have heard a couple other songs I downloaded a few months ago... and like the 3 I just listened too, they did nothing for me. So I had no interest in looking into them further.
    I knew this would be a loosing battle. A poll would be pointless. Its all just a matter of perspective. If poll was on, for example, the Bonnaroo board, I am sure the results would be quite the oposite.

    So lucky, I have a question for you. Have you even listened to an entire Mars Volta album? Or have you only seen them live? Because I have heard they are very hit and miss live. However, the two times I saw them live, they absolutely slayed.
    So, heres my deal lucky. If you listen to De-Loused in The Comatorium in its entirety, I will listen to any Mogwai album of your choice in its entirety. I give a good couple solid listens. Hell, If you listen to Frances The Mute as well, I will listen to any two Mogwai albums of your choice.
    I have listened to Deloused once and part of Frances the Mute. My emotions created by the songs and albums ranged from indifferent to extreme despair. To put it lightly, they are not my cup of tea. And before I hear I am not giving them a chance, when I saw them live, I had not listened to anything from them except for a couple of 30 second clips. I was legitimately enthusiastic about seeing them as people would cream themselves just mentioning the group's name. I was open-minded and ready to accept this band as amazing new talents. Easily one of the worst live experiences I have ever had. I thought maybe it was a bad night, maybe I was bummed that I only heard 3 songs in 75 minutes. So I decided to give them another chance and listen to an album. Never again will I subject myself to such torture.

    My hatred of TMV does not make me brand them as pretentious. I think MountMcCabe does an excellent job of pointing out the argument here, so I don't want to rehash what he has to say.

    Anyway, I am not sure if any of the videos will convince you otherwise, but honestly it is no big deal if you keep your opinion. You and I obviously define pretension very differently. You'll probably say the same thing to me, but you are seriously missing out if you aren't giving Mogwai a chance.
    For your health

  8. #38
    Coachella Junkie M Sparks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    I don't know much about Mars Volta, but I saw Mogwai do a 30 minute afternoon set in the blazing Phoenix heat. I had never really heard them before, and I was mesmorized.

    But I don't really see how they could be pretentious. If anything, they were kind of faceless. I think you need a strong personality to be pretentious.

  9. #39
    Coachella Junkie luckyface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by M Sparks View Post
    I don't know much about Mars Volta, but I saw Mogwai do a 30 minute afternoon set in the blazing Phoenix heat. I had never really heard them before, and I was mesmorized.

    But I don't really see how they could be pretentious. If anything, they were kind of faceless. I think you need a strong personality to be pretentious.
    I take it you went to Curiosa? Great (but very short) performance!
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  10. #40
    zeezus amyzzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Oh yeah. I'd forgotten I actually saw Mogwai at the Curiosa tour. I wanted Muse instead (they weren't on the Phx date), but I seem to remember Mogwai being pretty good. I also liked Interpol live even though I don't really like that band normally.
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  11. #41
    Coachella Junkie M Sparks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by amyzzz View Post
    Oh yeah. I'd forgotten I actually saw Mogwai at the Curiosa tour. I wanted Muse instead (they weren't on the Phx date), but I seem to remember Mogwai being pretty good. I also liked Interpol live even though I don't really like that band normally.
    Actually Muse was one of the second stage bands on that tour! Main stage was always the same...Mogwai, Rapture, Interpol, Cure.

    Phoenix got hosed on the second stage...We got Scarling and either Cursive or Thursday rather than Muse. (I took a nap after Interpol, so I didn't go back out to see who was the last act on the second stage.) And Head Automatica didn't even show up even though they were on the schedule.

    Cooper Temple Clause were great though.

  12. #42
    Coachella Junkie rage patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    Rage, it seems like your argument is that Mogwai is boring therefore they are pretentious. You can't see what people would like about their music thus it is "art rock."

    And a bunch of people that don't find Mogwai boring are responding saying that you're crazy.

    There is an element of pretense to Mogwai's music... long instrumental songs raise pretension flags too. But that isn't how the discussion is framed; the question is who is more pretentious, Mogwai or the Mars Volta.

    Are you trying to say that the Mars Volta are not pretentious? Would you use words like simple or restrained to refer to the Mars Volta's music? Are their lyrics straightforward and clear? Are the band leaders humble?
    No, I wasn't saying they are boring, therefore they are pretentious at all. What I was saying was thier music sounds like it is self-important. It's like they think the music is so great, it doesn't need any words. And, as luckyface mentioned, I don't care if they personally don't think they are that good, or if they are really humble. Their music speaks louder then their words. And to me, thier music comes across as pretentious, boring, self-important artsy music.
    And I am not saying The Mars Volta are not pretentious at all, I will admit they are. But you also have to admit Mogwai come off as pretentious too. I know you did, but others have to as well. I wouldn't use simple or restrained to describe The Mars Volta, but I sure as hell would not use it to describe Mogwai either. And TMVs lyrics are something out of this world, I honestly have no idea what any of them mean. But he has an amazing voice, so that counters it. While Mogwai on the other hand... don't feel the need for vocals. Which in itself is somewhat pretentious. And I have never read anything that would lead me to believe Cedric and Omar are anything but humble. Especially Omar. He is very humble about the music he creates.
    Based on those reasons, that is why I feel Mogwai come across as more pretentious then The Mars Volta.

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyface View Post
    I have listened to Deloused once and part of Frances the Mute. My emotions created by the songs and albums ranged from indifferent to extreme despair. To put it lightly, they are not my cup of tea. And before I hear I am not giving them a chance, when I saw them live, I had not listened to anything from them except for a couple of 30 second clips. I was legitimately enthusiastic about seeing them as people would cream themselves just mentioning the group's name. I was open-minded and ready to accept this band as amazing new talents. Easily one of the worst live experiences I have ever had. I thought maybe it was a bad night, maybe I was bummed that I only heard 3 songs in 75 minutes. So I decided to give them another chance and listen to an album. Never again will I subject myself to such torture.

    My hatred of TMV does not make me brand them as pretentious. I think MountMcCabe does an excellent job of pointing out the argument here, so I don't want to rehash what he has to say.

    Anyway, I am not sure if any of the videos will convince you otherwise, but honestly it is no big deal if you keep your opinion. You and I obviously define pretension very differently. You'll probably say the same thing to me, but you are seriously missing out if you aren't giving Mogwai a chance.
    I honestly cannot believe you gave De-Loused In The Comatorium an honest listen and came to that conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie.Dawn View Post
    I'm sure many will argue with me, but Deloused in my opinion is the single greatest cd put out during my lifetime... a short but valid 23 years. That cd is amazing. I kinda feel like people who don't like it just really didn't give it a good listen... or don't get it... but it's so good there's not a lot to get. I can see people saying 'you just dont get Frances' as an excuse from fans... but deloused... in my mind, if you don't get it... you don't really get music. A bold statment I know.. but it's how I feel. I feel like it seperates hipsters from real music lovers.
    Thank you! I wouldn't call it the best, but that album is seriously amazing.

    Now, with all that being said... why on earth does Mogwai's live show sound so fucking awesome? Seriously, their recorded music is just... blah. But I will be 100% honest here. Their live videos are certainly something else. I watched all the videos Andrew posted in the Upcoming Shows thread, and all the live clips here, and I admit, they look like they kick ass live. Why doesn't thier recorded music sound like they do live???
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Just the way some bands are. Some are sick live, and weak in the studio.

    Josh, listen to Happy Songs for Happy People (or some of it). Listen to Ratts of the Capital, thats the only one song I can recommend you listen to.

  14. #44
    Milkshake suprefan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Rocke you shouldve made this public.

  15. #45
    Coachella Junkie luckyface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by suprefan View Post
    Rocke you shouldve made this public.
    The poll? I thought I set it to public.
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  16. #46
    Coachella Junkie luckyface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    While Mogwai on the other hand... don't feel the need for vocals. Which in itself is somewhat pretentious.
    While I object to a lot of what you had to say in your post, I will say whatever to it because we are just going around in circles. I did want to point this out.

    First of all, some Mogwai songs do have vocals. Second of all, are you telling me that any instrumental song, be it instrumental rock, electronica, or even classical music is pretentious because there are no vocals? That is quite a statement.

    And there are a lot of ways I could describe the vocals for TMV, but amazing is literally the last word I would use.

    I honestly cannot believe you gave De-Loused In The Comatorium an honest listen and came to that conclusion.
    Believe it. I hated it. A lot!
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  17. #47
    whiney pain in butt
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Mars Volta duh, thread done.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    Follow-up:

    Hey... Mogwai's fucking boss. Why in the fuck would you ever try and stack bricks of shit like TMV against this?
    I wonder what stacking bricks of shit looks like..........

  19. #49

    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    I am off to classes right now... I will watch the various youtubes when I get back.

    But a quick summary of why I think Mogwai are pretentious. Thier music sounds less like music, and more like art. It sounds to me like they are trying as hard as humanly possible to make the most artsy music possible, and succeding at it nonetheless. And I have yet to hear any songs that would convince me otherwise.
    I usually agree with most things you say, but on this one I'm definitely going to have to disagree. Mogwai rocks.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    Seriously, this board is going to say The Mars Volta, no question about it.

    But I would really liked to hear what you all think is so great about Mogwai. I am honestly interested. Because when I listen to it, all I hear is long noises, no song structure and nothing audibly appealing whatsoever.
    This critique of Mogwai is why other people actually write music and you spend too much time commenting on it on message boards like this.

  21. #51
    Coachella Junkie bballarl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Mogwai are a killer rock band. Period. And they are straightforward in their rocking. Period.

    Mogwai Fear Satan.

    I am going to go listen to Tortoise, who are clearly pretentious because they don't sing.

  22. #52
    Coachella Junkie bballarl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Also, I was listening to this guy who plays this music called "Jazz" the other day. His name is Miles Davis or something like that. He is clearly pretentious, because pretty much all of his albums have no vocals. I think he had them arranged and then discarded them. Who needs that shit anyway, right?

  23. #53
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    I used to love to play jazz.


    It's probably still kinda pretentious.
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  24. #54
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelastgreatman View Post
    I used to love to play jazz.


    It's probably still kinda pretentious.
    Did you have vocals? If not, definitely pretentious.

    You know who else was pretentious? Beethoven. No vocals.
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  25. #55
    Banned thelastgreatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Beethoven composed all his music very carefully. Improv is kinda pretentious by nature. This is probably a good point as to why TMV are assholes.
    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofruckus View Post
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  26. #56
    Coachella Junkie rage patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Jesus Christ people... I didn't say all music without vocals is pretentious. Well, I guess I did actually. But I didn't mean it like that. I meant it like... it's like they think the music is so great, it doesn't need any words. As a listener, that is just how it feels. I listen to tons of instrumental bands and song, and just because a song has no word, it doesn't automatically mean its pretentious. Im sorry if that is how it came across to all of you, but you took it out of context.
    Second, I listened to Mogwai's live stuff, and I said it was A LOT better. Appealing even. If they were at a festival, I would definately make an effort to see them. However, I stand by their recorded music is extremely boring.
    Also, for all of you bashing The Mars Volta out there, I am just as entitled to my opinion just as you are. You see something in Mogwai's recorded music I don't, and I see something in the Mars Volta you don't.
    I'm sorry if I have suddenly lost all my "indie cred" but I was just stating my opinion. Just like you are all stating yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    And it's been long established that Chris hates fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatinisbad View Post
    I took my niece this year and it was her first Coachella. It was so fun to see it through her eyes. She thought it felt like a magical scene from Shreck. The one where all the fairy tale creatures meet for the first time in Shreck's swamp.

  27. #57
    Coachella Junkie bballarl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    I like the Mars Volta. I would have enjoyed their concert I saw much much more if I wasn't suffering from a cold and an incredibly sore back. The opening few minutes of that show are some of the most exciting I have ever seen in a concert. And their intro music is badass.

  28. #58
    Coachella Junkie greghead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsblend420 View Post
    I wonder what stacking bricks of shit looks like..........
    Very squishy and messy


    And to Randy:
    Of course Jazz is pretentious, the whole notion of improv screams, "look at how fucking awesome I am", but that does not mean it is not enjoyable to listen to at times
    Last edited by greghead; 03-04-2008 at 07:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanfairchild View Post
    I'm still waiting for Jack White to finally admit that he invented the guitar.

  29. #59
    old school JSam67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    The Mars Volta is garbage. They are not only more pretentious than Mogwai, they're probably also more pretentious than suprefan.

  30. #60
    Coachella Junkie shakermaker113's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is More Pretentious?

    Quote Originally Posted by JSam67 View Post
    The Mars Volta is garbage. They are not only more pretentious than Mogwai, they're probably also more pretentious than suprefan.
    +10.

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