Who Is More Pretentious?

[luckyface]

Ok let's carry the discussion from Upcoming Shows here.

Pretty simple poll here. Since rage patton is clearly insane and I am biased, let's have the good people of the Coachella board weigh in on the topic.

So... who do you think is more pretentious?

[Wheres the beef?]

I thought this was going to be about board members.

[rage patton]

Seriously, this board is going to say The Mars Volta, no question about it.

But I would really liked to hear what you all think is so great about Mogwai. I am honestly interested. Because when I listen to it, all I hear is long noises, no song structure and nothing audibly appealing whatsoever.

[Boourns]

Godspeed? Definitely. But Mogwai? Come on!

[dorkfish]

vs.

[rage patton]

Nope. Sorry. Thats all I hear in Mogwai.

And luckyface, what do you mean Mogwai songs aren't long??? Mogwait Fears Satan, D to E and Haunted By A Freak are all like 7-8 minutes long. Sure, some TMV songs are 15-16 minutes long, but they also have songs that are 2-3 minutes long. All the Mogwai songs I have heard are over 7 minutes, or pretty close to it.

[dorkfish]

Average song length for last 2 Mogwai studio albums: 4 minutes 12 seconds
Average song length for last 2 TMV studio albums: 7 minutes 35 seconds

[rage patton]

Maybe Im listening to more then one song then, they are just blended together... I just can't tell because all their music is, is prolonged noises and they all sound exactly the same. Thats probably what it is.

[greghead]

Average song length for last 2 Mogwai studio albums: 4 minutes 12 seconds
Average song length for last 2 TMV studio albums: 7 minutes 35 seconds

Yeah, Amputechture does not have one song that clocks in under five minutes. I think, anyway. Not only is Bedlam in Goliath a much better album, the songs are not quite so big and unwieldy. TMV is fairly pretentious, but they have real musical chops, so I'm willing to overlook. Mogwai is ok, just not my cup of tea.

[luckyface]

Nope. Sorry. Thats all I hear in Mogwai.

And luckyface, what do you mean Mogwai songs aren't long??? Mogwait Fears Satan, D to E and Haunted By A Freak are all like 7-8 minutes long. Sure, some TMV songs are 15-16 minutes long, but they also have songs that are 2-3 minutes long. All the Mogwai songs I have heard are over 7 minutes, or pretty close to it.

Point me to the spot where I said Mogwai songs weren't long, please. Thanks. All I said was that if you added all of Mogwai's longest songs together they wouldn't be as long as one TMV song, which is what one might call sarcasm.

So you have heard 3 Mogwai songs (as you claimed in the other thread) and you have made the determination that all of their songs must be long. You do realize they have more than these songs, right? For instance, on their last two albums, the longest songs were 5:47 and 6:51 respectively. If you want to get caught up the song length game, you are going to lose.

I am still amazed how straightforward post rock can be deemed pretentious, while banshee screams, some dude playing a fucking TYPEWRITER, and an out of place saxophone is not. But hey, maybe you and I are thinking of a different definition or pretension.

[mountmccabe]

Seriously, this board is going to say The Mars Volta, no question about it.

But I would really liked to hear what you all think is so great about Mogwai. I am honestly interested. Because when I listen to it, all I hear is long noises, no song structure and nothing audibly appealing whatsoever.

You not liking Mogwai doesn't make them pretentious.

It seems to me that the Mars Volta play with song structure more than Mogwai do.

I, personally, find Mogwai's long, mellow sound to be cool. It can be soothing. But they can also rock. Here is "Glasgow Mega-Snake"



They're just doing something completely different from the Mars Volta. They're not minimalist but they're closer to that than the Mars Volta. It is interesting hearing how their songs develop, the slow changes.

The Mars Volta just overwhelm you with music.

[luckyface]

You not liking Mogwai doesn't make them pretentious.

I think we hit the nail on the head. If you don't like Mogwai, that is cool. But I just don't get the pretentious thing.

As for your comments about Mogwai only sounding like noise to you, they actually have a lot more to offer than the wall of noise you have noticed on the couple of songs you have heard. They can be quite diverse.

[thelastgreatman]

Based on 30 seconds of listening to Mogwai:

Oh thank god--I was deathly afraid there might actually be something that was even more deluded about itself than Mars Volta. Now that I know this is not the case, I'll sleep easier.

[thelastgreatman]

Follow-up:

Hey... Mogwai's fucking boss. Why in the fuck would you ever try and stack bricks of shit like TMV against this?

[Astrid]

i dont understand why they are being compared?

[NiceArthur32]

pretentious is such a pretentious word...

fucking word...

[Astrid]

how is pretentious a pretentious word?

because it has several syllables? i would not consider it an advanced vocabulary word. im sure my ten year old brother has a full understanding of its meaning...

he could have easily used ostentatious, magniloquent, or highfalutin to say the same thing...then i might see your point.

[NiceArthur32]

go to a mirror and just mouth the word "pretentious"

dont you look pretentious doing that?

see what i mean?

[thelastgreatman]

"Pretentious" is inherently pretentious, actually. Interesting little exercise in meta syntax, come to think of it.

[Astrid]

hahahahah. okay. hahah. indeed.

[rage patton]

I am off to classes right now... I will watch the various youtubes when I get back.

But a quick summary of why I think Mogwai are pretentious. Thier music sounds less like music, and more like art. It sounds to me like they are trying as hard as humanly possible to make the most artsy music possible, and succeding at it nonetheless. And I have yet to hear any songs that would convince me otherwise.

[Hannahrain]

how is pretentious a pretentious word?

because it has several syllables? i would not consider it an advanced vocabulary word. im sure my ten year old brother has a full understanding of its meaning...

he could have easily used ostentatious, magniloquent, or highfalutin to say the same thing...then i might see your point.

Astrid's ten-year-old brother is pretentious.

Highfalutin isn't a pretentious word. Unless you mean the pretentious people who happen to be at a hoedown.

[thelastgreatman]

I am off to classes right now... I will watch the various youtubes when I get back.

But a quick summary of why I think Mogwai are pretentious. Thier music sounds less like music, and more like art. It sounds to me like they are trying as hard as humanly possible to make the most artsy music possible, and succeding at it nonetheless. And I have yet to hear any songs that would convince me otherwise.

... don't like that music that's trying to be art, eh? That must suck for you, seeing as music is art. Is that why you like TMV? Cause they're the opposite of everything that art should be? Specifically things like "good," "not painful to listen to," and "not stretched out to lengths that vastly exceed the amount of worthwhile content contained within?"

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

Nope. Sorry. Thats all I hear in Mogwai.

And luckyface, what do you mean Mogwai songs aren't long??? Mogwait Fears Satan, D to E and Haunted By A Freak are all like 7-8 minutes long. Sure, some TMV songs are 15-16 minutes long, but they also have songs that are 2-3 minutes long. All the Mogwai songs I have heard are over 7 minutes, or pretty close to it.

My Father My King is 20 minutes long on CD and 30 minutes live...

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

I am off to classes right now... I will watch the various youtubes when I get back.

But a quick summary of why I think Mogwai are pretentious. Thier music sounds less like music, and more like art. It sounds to me like they are trying as hard as humanly possible to make the most artsy music possible, and succeding at it nonetheless. And I have yet to hear any songs that would convince me otherwise.

Ok Rage, this is something I completely disagree with you on. I have seen both bands live and been a fan for a while already...and it seems to me that Mars Volta WANTS their tracks to be these long winded sessions of noodling...long guitar solos, drum solos, keyboard solos and outlandish lyrics...it is almost as if they pulled tricks right out of the book of Emerson, Lake and Palmer. While Mogwai on the other hand feels as if they let the songs build themselves...no massive guitar solos (If fact none at all, I can't think of a Mogwai track where I have heard any...), no lyrics whatsoever to speak of. They just want to make music..and not all these tracks and albums are long...Rock Action (In my mind their best album) clocks in at barely 38 minutes spend over 8 tracks, that is just about 4 to 5 minutes a track (except 2 rights make a wrong)...I love Mars Volta when they shorten they tracks and just get to the point...that is why I liked them initially, I am not sure what happened...but I saw the change easy from coachella 2002 to 2003...2002 was straight to the point and fucking rocked with all the energy of any punk or metal band while adding a element of jazz into it...2003 was them trying to be Santana...not sure why...

[luckyface]

i dont understand why they are being compared?

It was a discussion that began in the Upcoming Shows thread. When I called TMV pretentious, rage countered with Mogwai. That is why they are being compared.

[Tylerdurden31]

Dream Theater

[schoolofruckus]

The Mars Volta are occasionally good, but largely retarded. Mogwai is the best band on the planet.

But let's throw all that out.

Patton - Listen to "Friend of the Night" for evidence of Mogwai's mastery of "structure" in a concise format. And then listen to "Ratts of the Capital" to see how they can craft a build-up to the gates of heaven over the course of an 8 minute song (which, as many people have pointed out, is about a third of the length of the average Mars Volta composition).

Can you offer anything in the discography of the same band that puts out a song like "Viscera Eyes" as its fucking radio single that accomplishes the same feat?

[Melanie.Dawn]

I love Volta. I've seen them 6 times. I've met them. They've givin us free tickets. I thought they were a religion for a while.... all said... I had to vote them as most pretentious! haha

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

I love Volta. I've seen them 6 times. I've met them. They've givin us free tickets. I thought they were a religion for a while.... all said... I had to vote them as most pretentious! haha

And that was from a true fan!!!