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Thread: The Science/Science News Thread.

  1. #541
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    What?
    guess you're too young. Google Stanley Pons. That shit is over 20 years old.

    Folks have been exposed for false claims of cold fusion since then too. Google Rossi and Focardi (2011)
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 01-07-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  2. #542
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Hahaha so let me get this striaght, everyone is full of shit but now that MIT is admitting that these guys are on to something, you are on board?

    Actually fnp obsered the phenomena 22 years ago. MIT scientists denounced them, called them fools and bad scientists. 22 years later that same institution is holding a free seminar in the wake of stanley pons death to basically retract all of the negative close minded ignorant bullshit they force fed the scientific community.

    Rossi is full of shit? Thats why nasa bought his devices and hes working with the head nasa scientist david bushnell?


    Jack your the perfect posterchild of what is know as ignorance.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  3. #543
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Man, I love that 1997 documentary, The Saint.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    Man, I love that 1997 documentary, The Saint.
    It was good, but the 1996 documentary Chain Reaction was much more groundbreaking!

  5. #545
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Goldeneye beat the shit out of both those movies.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Okay, can we move away from speculation towards something that we know happened:

    First video of a giant squid in its natural habitat.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  7. #547
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    I've been waiting for this moment. For all of my life.

  8. #548
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    What are we speculating about?

    http://futureinnovation.larc.nasa.go...reactions.html

    Nm lets talk about real science, youtube videos of animals. You ever see the one where the eagle snatches up the baby?
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  9. #549
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Is marine biology not considered a science?
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanfairchild View Post
    Has Pitchfork revealed it's top 200 covers by Arcade Fire yet?

  10. #550
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Is there a point to interacting with grannock?
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

  11. #551
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    He might be a good addition to my ignore list.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Because fucking millenials that's what

  12. #552
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Most assuredly.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by miscorrections View Post
    Is there a point to interacting with grannock?
    I know, you're right. I really should have known better.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanfairchild View Post
    Has Pitchfork revealed it's top 200 covers by Arcade Fire yet?

  14. #554
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Let's all be soothed by the giant squid.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    Has anyone gone on a date with a sandwich recently? What base did you get to? Ham?

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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    What are we speculating about?

    http://futureinnovation.larc.nasa.go...reactions.html

    Nm lets talk about real science, youtube videos of animals. You ever see the one where the eagle snatches up the baby?
    Did you read the article that you posted? You know, like the parts where they say, "Something real is happening, we're speculating as to what." or "We are still far from the theoretical limits of the weak interaction physics for LENR performance and are in fact inventing (in real time) the requisite engineering, along with verifying the physics."

    Speculating. Oh, but I'm sorry, you wrote a paper.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  16. #556

    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    THAS INCLEDIBRU!!!!!!

  17. #557
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    Hahaha so let me get this striaght, everyone is full of shit but now that MIT is admitting that these guys are on to something, you are on board?

    Actually fnp obsered the phenomena 22 years ago. MIT scientists denounced them, called them fools and bad scientists. 22 years later that same institution is holding a free seminar in the wake of stanley pons death to basically retract all of the negative close minded ignorant bullshit they force fed the scientific community.

    Rossi is full of shit? Thats why nasa bought his devices and hes working with the head nasa scientist david bushnell?


    Jack your the perfect posterchild of what is know as ignorance.

    Show me this MIT retraction and vindication of Pons' work. And "MIT" is not an individual entitiy. It is a collection of professors and researchers. If a few people within that association want to be open to talking about the possibilities of cold fusion then wouldn't that seem to be at odds with your idea of a scientific conspiracy to bottle this shit up? idiot.

    also show me where "NASA bought [Rossi's] devices". The only evidence on the internet is that they were in talks to potentially help test his device, but that didn't happen. Since then it appears to have been a contentious relationship.


    "force fed the scientific community"? You clearly know nothing but pseudo-science if that statement makes even a tiny bit of sense to you.

    You're so full of shit your mouth is a festering stream of infected puss.




    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    Jack your the perfect posterchild of what is know as ignorance.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 01-08-2013 at 12:06 PM.

  18. #558
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Did you learn anything by reading up on this topic to try and refute me jack? How about you bmack?

    Another very intersting recent development out of germany is the achived "anti" temperature. Using lasers, electromagnets and newly understood principles of quantum coherance, they created a state of matter that disobeys the thermodynamic entropy laws. Instead of this matter trying to acheive complete boltzman distribution, it attempt to acheive a single quantum state. Interesting to note, this form of matter neve got to a single quantum state (absolute zero), so they say they have reached "negative" nanokelvin.

    Once again, classical phsyics from a thermodynamic standpoint is not as universal as previously thought.

    Gonna have a discussion about this with one of the phd physicists that i work with. If anyone can link the original publication, i think it is in the journal "science" it would be appreciated.
    Last edited by grannock; 01-09-2013 at 03:24 AM.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  19. #559
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    they created a state of matter that disobeys the thermodynamic entropy laws.
    I am not so sure about that, but I am sure that I don't understand what is going on. Anyway:

    Matter at negative absolute temperature leads to a whole bunch of astounding consequences: With its help, one could create heat engines with an efficiency above 100%. This does not mean that the law of energy conservation is violated. Instead, the machine could not only absorb energy from the hotter substance, but, in contrast to the usual case, also from the colder. The work performed by the engine could therefore be larger than the energy taken from the hotter substance alone.
    from Atoms at negative absolute temperature: The hottest systems in the world at phys.org which is the clearest technical explanation I've seen. That article links to the original paper at Science but paywall and all.
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post


    Jack your the perfect posterchild of what is know as ignorance.
    Lol. Look for it.
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    I don't fucking care. I don't even know who the hell Dave Wang is.
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    you used to be that guy that just Dave Wang's everybody. that guy. he's gone now, and whoever you really are showed up, and that was utter disappointment.

  21. #561
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    from Atoms at negative absolute temperature: The hottest systems in the world at phys.org which is the clearest technical explanation I've seen.
    I wonder why the mainstream scientific community hasn't suppressed this and criminally defrauded these scientists.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
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  22. #562
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    I wonder why the mainstream scientific community hasn't suppressed this and criminally defrauded these scientists.
    Because it isn't actually that crazy and only seems that way because of our common, non-technical definitions. And because such a system is very unstable and, you know, not actually breaking the laws of thermodynamics.

    I found another explanation that is less dry and more clear:

    To understand negative temperature, you need to know what the definition of temperature is, at least to a scientist. It turns out that the statistical mechanics definition of "temperature" does map to your everyday understanding (at least for things with positive temperature), as it should otherwise why the hell would scientists use the same word for both concepts, but it is a bit confusing.

    Temperature is DEFINED as the partial derivative of the energy of a system with respect to the entropy of the system....
    It continues, with math (concepts).
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  23. #563
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    I am not so sure about that, but I am sure that I don't understand what is going on. Anyway:



    from Atoms at negative absolute temperature: The hottest systems in the world at phys.org which is the clearest technical explanation I've seen. That article links to the original paper at Science but paywall and all.

    Second law of thermodynamics. The entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.

    Watching salt dissolve in water is good visual elementary example of this. The salt atoms spread out throughout the solution without any applied force because an even distribution of energy is the tendency of matter.

    If i undersand correctly, (which i may not because i cant find a free version of the original publication) by condensing matter into a very small space using magnetics, and then exciting these atoms with lasers, you create a system where the atoms have no where to go but are at a very high energy state the entropic tendency is reversed. Instead of energentic distribution you have energetic stacking into a single quantum state. This may demonstrate the circular limit of temperature and energy flow. The lower limit is the same as the upper limit, termed absolute zero.

    Helium superfluid is another good example of what is termed quantum coherence. Im on my phone, i cant spell. Sorry mja, i dont use punctuation well either.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  24. #564
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    Second law of thermodynamics. The entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.
    When I said "I don't understand what is going on" I meant in that specific experiment, not that I was completely ignorant.


    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    Watching salt dissolve in water is good visual elementary example of this. The salt atoms spread out throughout the solution without any applied force because an even distribution of energy is the tendency of matter.
    This is nonsense. Entropy isn't a force. If you can see salt being distributed around a beaker of water it's because water, etc molecules in the beaker are not at rest, they have energy.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  25. #565
    Coachella Junkie jackstraw94086's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    Second law of thermodynamics. The entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.

    Watching salt dissolve in water is good visual elementary example of this. The salt atoms spread out throughout the solution without any applied force because an even distribution of energy is the tendency of matter.

    If i undersand correctly, (which i may not because i cant find a free version of the original publication) by condensing matter into a very small space using magnetics, and then exciting these atoms with lasers, you create a system where the atoms have no where to go but are at a very high energy state the entropic tendency is reversed. Instead of energentic distribution you have energetic stacking into a single quantum state. This may demonstrate the circular limit of temperature and energy flow. The lower limit is the same as the upper limit, termed absolute zero.
    First salt is a molecule, not an atom, but of course that must have been another autocorrect by your phone.
    Second, the salt analogy is dumb because the salt actually is taking energy from the solution it is dissolving in. Ever notice how you have trouble dissolving salt or sugar in cold water?

    And what the fuck are you on about with your demonstration of "reverse entropy" when you just said you're exciting the fucking atoms with a laser? Any discussion of entropy has to be in the context of a closed system. You have no hope of anyone ever taking your flapping gash seriously but especially when you can't come remotely close to a coherent explanation of this shit.


    But go on. Please continue your babbling regurgitation of theory you're copying/pasting from the internet. And when this shit doesn't pan out I expect it'll just be more sinister scientific establishment cover up.

    I'll wait for an actual scientist to offer actual experimental results.
    Last edited by jackstraw94086; 01-09-2013 at 11:14 AM.

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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by grannock View Post
    The lower limit is the same as the upper limit, termed absolute .
    TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!!!!!
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  27. #567
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Jack.... Im not a google scientist. I never look stuff up, I know this shit. I teach AP chemistry and physics, but whatever, ill break you down.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post

    First salt is a molecule, not an atom
    Salt NaCl is an ionic compound. You never call ionic compounds molecules, ever. Molecules are nonmetals bonded together sharing electrons. They are called covalent molecules. Salt, NaCl, is a nonmetal anion bonded to a metal cation through the force of electrostatic attraction. NOT a molecule. You are correct that labeling the Na and the Cl atoms isn't perfectly correct. They are ions, i chose to use atoms because very few people understand what the term "ion" means.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    Second, the salt analogy is dumb because the salt actually is taking energy from the solution it is dissolving in.
    This is horseshit. Put a thermometer in a cup of water and dissolve salt in it. Do this, and tell me if the temp goes down.

    Then do it with baking soda. Baking soda decomposes into NaOH and carbon dioxide. The temp of the cup does go down because this is an endothermic reaction that is driven by an increase in entropy. Solid + liquid -> gas + liquid. Entropy is increased. Two forces drive every chemical reaction, either the release of chemical potential energy (exothermic) or the increase in the entropy of the system. Look up the gibbs free energy equation if you want more.

    Dissolving salt in water is not a chemical reaction, the ions are separated by the polar force of the water MOLECULES. No bonds are being made, no bonds are being broken. Why don't all of the salt IONS all just settle to the bottom on the glass? Entropy. Why do gasses expand to fill any volume container that they are in, overcoming the small but real Van Der Walls FORCES? Entropy. No reactions are taking place, no energy is being consumed, it is a thermodynamic fucking law.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post

    Ever notice how you have trouble dissolving salt or sugar in cold water?
    Look up the solubility chart for NaCl. Notice how the line stays at 40g/100mL regardless of the temp? It is true that most substances have higher solubility at higher temps, this is not true of all substances. Solubility is a complicated subject, and I'm not going to explain it on this forum. (I didn't even have to look these values up because i do this as a lab activity)

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw94086 View Post
    And what the fuck are you on about with your demonstration of "reverse entropy" when you just said you're exciting the fucking atoms with a laser? Any discussion of entropy has to be in the context of a closed system. You have no hope of anyone ever taking your flapping gash seriously but especially when you can't come remotely close to a coherent explanation of this shit.
    I like how you utilized "flapping gash", nice. You don't understand what entropy is. Your third grade teacher most likely told you it is the measure of "dissorder". This is a very poor over simplified explanation, so i understand why you don't get what i'm talking about. Entropy is the tendency for substances to try and fill as many possible quantum states as it can. For example, in a glass of water at 30 Celsius, you can make a Boltzmann distribution of every single energy state of every single MOLECULE of water. You will find that the average energy for all 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules is 30 Celcius but you have outliers at both ends of the spectrum. Some of these water molecules are at 10 Celcius and others are at 50. This distribution is a simple bell curve, but the fact that this curve exists shows that even when you isolate the system (dont let anything exchange energy with the cup) the water molecules will NEVER stack up in this bell curve and all achieve the same energetic state of 30 celcius. Keep in mind, i'm explaining this like I do to the 16 year olds. It is a bit over simplified but it shows the effect of entropy, he so called "dissorder" of any system.

    The Boltzmann distribution of absolutute zero would be a single line. Every single atom in question would occupy the exact same energy state. We can not achieve absolute zero, we have gotten very close, but because of entropy, it is not possible.

    Reverse entropy would mean that every single water molecule would tend to stack up on the exact same quantum state, a complete opposite of the effect we see.

    Lets look at superfluid helium. Even though I am not incredibly well versed on this topic, i wont even look anything up just so you can go to the wiki page and try to break me down. As you heat any substance it will turn to the gaseous state, and eventually plasma where the atoms in question are receiving enough energy that they cross the ionization energy barrier and eject their electrons. Substances in either of these states generate tremendous pressure because the intermolecular forces that hold molecules and ions together are overcome. The entropic tendencies allow these states of matter to expand continuously unless something tremendous is holding them back. IE The hydrogen in Jupiter doesn't expand endlessly into space because of the gravity of Jupiter. Back to superfuild helium. Helium has a very high ionization energy and i'm not sure if superfuild helium exists because helium will not ionize at extreme temps, or if superfluid helium is considered plasma. Either way, once you heat helium up to extreme temps, you notice that there is some attractive force that is actually forcing the helium atoms back together rather than expanding to fit its given volume. This is contrary the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy should be increasing by the helium dispersing to fill any given volume because of entropy. Somehow, in superfluid helium, entropy is reversed. There is some sort of force bringing the atoms closer, occupying less quantum states, much like how entropy does the opposite effect. Like I said, im not very well versed in this topic, and i could be mistaken about some of this. I know they have dubbed the phenomena "quantum cohesion", essentially saying quantum stacking rather than quantum distribution.

    So lets look at the recent german experiment. They are claiming to achieve negative hundredths of a degree of kelvin, -.001K. We can, using insane cooling and pressure equiptment, get the opposite of this, .001K. This claim makes me speculate that they are confining some substance using magnetic fields and then using lasers (i can also explain to you how lasers work, and how entropy effects bosons like the photon a little differently) to heat them up to some insane temp and then they actually watch reverse entropy take effect. Instead of the substance generating tremendous pressure and try to achieve as many possible quantum states, it starts to revert back to a single quantum state of absolute zero.

    Temperature has always been thought of as a completely exponential function. The lower limit is absolute zero, and then upper limit was inifinity, there is no "maximum" temp. If I am speculating correctly, as we reach the upper limit of temperature, more energy actually causes the temp to decrease and start heading back towards absolute zero because the entropic tendency is actually reversed. This would indicate a sinusoidal (circular, wavelike) function, and completely change the way we look at thermodynamics. Kinda cool, but complete speculation on my part since I refuse to pay 45$ for the original publication when I can most likely get it for free from a friends who belongs to the ACS.

    If anyone actually wants to discuss science in the science discussion thread, it would be great. Oh, BTW, Jack, how do you pay your bills if you don't mind me asking?
    Last edited by grannock; 01-09-2013 at 01:56 PM.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

  28. #568
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    I wonder why the mainstream scientific community hasn't suppressed this and criminally defrauded these scientists.
    Grannock, please address this issue. It cries out for your insight and wisdom.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  29. #569
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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Sodium chloride's enthalpy of solution is +3.88 kJ/mol, which makes it very slightly endothermic.

    Why is this very very slightly endothermic? Because of entropy.
    Last edited by grannock; 01-09-2013 at 02:05 PM.
    "How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

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    Default Re: The Science/Science News Thread.

    Nobody gives a fuck, grannock. Now answer my question you addlebrained pussy.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

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