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Thread: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

  1. #151

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    I felt this was a good place to post this excellent article on the subject of trolling and flaming. It should be adopted as a guideline at every socially interactive website on the internet. While it discusses trolling on Wikipedia, specifically, the nature of the trolling is applicable to any website and the advice offered is helpful to all those who are being trolled-stalked-pestered.

    Trolling refers to deliberate and intentional attempts to disrupt the usability of Wikipedia for its editors, administrators, developers, and other people who work to create content for and help run Wikipedia. Trolling is deliberate violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces. It necessarily involves a value judgment made by one user about the value of another's contribution. (Because of this it is considered not to be any more useful than the judgment 'I don't agree with you' by many users, who prefer to focus on behaviors instead of on presumed intent). Not to be confused with large warty monsters thought to dwell under bridges, in caves etc.

    Trolling is not necessarily the same as vandalism (although vandalism may be used to troll). A vandal may just enjoy defacing a webpage, insulting random users, or spreading some personal views in an inappropriate way. A troll deliberately exploits tendencies of human nature or of an online community to upset people.

    There are many types of disruptive users that are not trolls. Reversion warriors, POV warriors, cranks, impolite users, and vocal critics of Wikipedia structures and processes are not necessarily trolls.

    The basic mindset of a troll is that they are far more interested in how others react to their edits than in the usual concerns of Wikipedians: accuracy, veracity, comprehensiveness, and overall quality. If a troll gets no response to their spurious edits, then they can hardly be considered a troll at all.

    The basic policy regarding trolling is simple: please refrain.

    Definition of trolling

    The idea of defining trolling is in many ways comical at best. The nature of trolls is to slip from any definition intended to constrain their actions and to find new and innovative ways to be aggravating. What follows are some comments that point generally in the direction of what a troll is and what trolls do. But it is not possible to identify everything someone might do to deliberately try to wreak havoc on Wikipedia. For this reason, no enforcement whatsoever has been set up against trolls.

    Trolling is a deliberate, bad faith attempt to disrupt the editing of Wikipedia. Ignorance is not trolling. Genuine dissent is not trolling. Biased editing, even if defended aggressively, is in itself not trolling. By themselves, misguided nominations, votes, and proposed policy are not trolling. They are only trolling when they are motivated by a program of malice rather than ignorance or bias. This requires a judgment of the personal motivation for another's action. Such a judgment can never be made with anything approaching certainty. This fact should always be kept in mind when one is tempted to label someone a troll.

    When you try to decide if someone is a troll, strive to assume they are not. Explain errors politely and reasonably; point them towards policies, the manual of style and relevant past discussions. Do not conclude they are a troll until they have shown complete inability or unwillingness to listen to reason or to moderate their position based upon the input of others. Even in that case, it is likely better to remain silent and let others conclude the obvious instead of calling someone a troll and creating even more mayhem. It is better to humor a troll for too long than to drive away a sincere but misguided user. Remember and apply the principles laid out at w:Wikipediaon't bite the newcomers.

    Types of trolling

    All of these identify behaviors that some trolls do engage in. It does not follow from this that all, most, or any given person engaged in these behaviors is a troll. It also does not follow that a person who has not engaged in these behaviors is not a troll. An important part of the definition of "trolling" is that it is always something someone else is doing.

    Edit warring

    The archetypal example of trolling is the deliberately inflammatory edit or post — saying something controversial specifically to cause a flame war. Inflammatory edits usually come from users who have a minority or controversial opinion and who sincerely believe that this view is inadequately represented by Wikipedia, and therefore will seek reasonable ways to properly represent their views; trolls, however, will generally not seek consensus but will instead insist on a position without any regard for compromise.

    Not all edit war trolls will choose subject matter that is obviously controversial. The defining characteristic of a troll in this case is not the content of the edit, but the behavior in discussing the edit, and the refusal to consider evidence and citations or to accept.

    People who passionately believe in what they are writing also sometimes behave in a way that may make them appear to be a troll. Many non-trolls refuse to compromise, and, at times, compromise may not even be the best solution.

    Uploading inappropriate content

    Some articles are created and some pictures are uploaded with the sole purpose of offending the readers or other Wikipedians. In such cases as copies from w:shock sites, this is more appropriately treated as vandalism. However, if an article with clearly inappropriate content is aggressively defended pretending that it is a genuinely encyclopedic article, this may qualify as trolling.

    Misuse of process

    Deliberate misuse of processes is a favourite troll game. Examples include continual nomination of articles for w:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion that are obviously encyclopedic, nomination of stubs for w:Wikipedia:Featured article candidates, baseless listing of users at w:Wikipedia:Requests for comment, nomination of users who obviously do not fulfill the minimum requirements at w:Wikipedia:Requests for adminship, "correction" of things that are already in conformance with the w:Wikipedia:Manual of style, and giving repeated vandalism warnings to innocent users. When we say that something is "obvious" or "baseless", we mean that anyone acting in good faith would agree with that characteristic. Beware that sometimes something may seem obvious to you but be quite non-obvious to others. Characterizing someone as a troll who simply disagrees with you can cause disputes which can be very damaging both to Wikipedia and to your own credibility.

    Usually, even if the behavior clearly breaks policy, this is just someone unaware of policy. Look at the user's response to being pointed towards the relevant policy. If they accept the policy, or seek to change the policy at the appropriate location, they might not be a troll. If they declare the policy "wrong" (but make no effort to amend it) or simply ignore it, it's possible they are a troll. Remember that "policy" on Wikipedia is not a black and white issue. It is sometimes very difficult for a new Wikipedian to understand the complicated system of authority which Wikipedia uses, and these systems are not really detailed anywhere (or even set, to some extent). If a user challenges that an alleged policy really is a policy, perhaps it's best to utilize the help of other users. Encourage the newcomer to use the village pump, and point them to the IRC channel, where experienced users may be able to help get the newcomer acquainted with the system.

    Pestering

    Another form of trolling can occur in the form of continual questions with obvious or easy-to-find answers. Of course, sometimes what is obvious to one person is obscure to another. If a user seems to be asking stupid questions, try to give them the resources to help themselves. You can also send them to the help desk. If they persist, politely explain that you would love to help but you are rather busy. If they continue asking the question even after you have clearly answered it, or begin complaining that you will not help them, there is a chance of them being trolls. Or they could just be lazy or confused. Of all the kinds of trolling, this is the most important kind not to get bent out of shape about. Remember: Wikipedia is a source of knowledge. Be friendly about providing knowledge to people. That said, in extreme cases, this can be a method of trolling, and it is not inappropriate to ask someone to leave you alone once you have made a reasonable attempt to answer their questions.

    Misplaced criticism

    Some trolls are critical of the project, its policies, its users, its administration, or its goals. Often, this criticism comes in the form of accusations of cabals, ilks, or campaigns that are typically invested in a particular POV, invested in maligning a specific user, and other similar claims. Often, racist trolls, when confronted, will accuse Wikipedia of Marxism or political correctness. Criticism of the project, made constructively, is welcome from contributors when shared in an appropriate place. It is unwelcome when cross posted to a wide variety of places (c.f. MeatBall:ForestFire), or clearly inappropriate locations, such as article pages and established policy pages. This is very similar to posting any controversial issue — if it is done to improve things and foster discussion, it can be a great benefit. If it's done with malice and in bad faith, it can be a problem. Of course, a new user who gets treated roughly can easily interpret that as Cabalism, especially if there seems to be no appropriate forum for these complaints. What criticism is 'constructive' is very much in the eye of the beholder.

    Creative trolling

    The nature of trolling is to be disruptive, and one of the most disruptive things that can be done is to find new ways to cause trouble that are not quite against the rules. No matter how great your definition of trolling may be, a dedicated troll will find something you have not thought of yet.

    This, then, is something of a catch-all category — if a user is being continually disruptive, and no amount of politeness, consensus, mediation, or anything else is reining them in, they are trolling. When a user, in a conflict of any sort, insists on the letter of a rule while grossly violating its spirit, this is often a sign of trolling.

    In these borderline cases, however, it is more important than ever to try to assume good faith, and to seek consensus not only in your opposition to whatever you think is being trolled about but on the issue of whether or not someone is a troll. A good start when you are faced with creative trolling is to come to this page and propose an amendment to the types of trolling section. If people agree that it is trolling, then you can go back to the conflict with this on your side. Failing specific additions to this page, however, the arbitration committee should be the only ones to ban users for "creative" trolling.

    Dealing with trolls

    Not feeding the trolls


    Main article: w:Wikipediaeny recognition

    A common piece of advice regarding trolls is "Please do not feed the trolls." It is sometimes abbreviated as "DNFT" or "DFTT." While many seasoned veterans of online communities consider this advice useless, because in a community of any size, someone will react to the troll's posts, others still consider it to be the only effective method for dealing with trolls. Not fanning the fire will, at the very least, not make the situation worse. If the behavior escalates to abuse or vandalism, it is easy to deal with those things.

    Dealing with edit war trolls

    Of course, sometimes trolls cannot be ignored without compromising the integrity of an article—particularly in the case of edit war trolling. In these cases, err on the side of improving Wikipedia, but always remember the principle of w:Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot and do not hesitate to appeal to the w:Wikipediaispute resolution process. Remember the three revert rule. If someone is trolling an article you will get support from others in restoring the article. Eventually, the troll may give up or a consensus may form for dealing with him or her more firmly.

    Dealing with inappropriate content

    While in Usenet, chatrooms, and other online communities, it is probably best to ignore trolls; this does not work with content uploaded to Wikipedia. Even if you ignore it, it remains in the database and is visible from the Internet. Inappropriate articles that do not qualify as speedy deletes should be taken to AfD. However, one should keep every debate strictly factual. A heated deletion discussion, possibly fueled by inflammatory comments by the troll or his sockpuppets and allies, may increase the troll's motivation.

    The value of slow reverts

    At Wikipedia, one of the most effective ways of dealing with persistent misuse is through slow reverts, that is, permitting the abuse to stand for a period of time (usually a day or so), and then reverting it. The lack of any kind of immediate response denies satisfaction to the troll and leaves them with nothing to do, and the eventual revert removes the effect of their contribution. It allows time for the troublemaker's editing patterns to become clear and to come to the attention of other Wikipedians. This is a sort of 'Don't feed the trolls (too much)'.

    The main problem with slow reverts is that they are difficult to perform on frequently edited articles since there may be intervening edits.

    Dealing with misuse of process

    Unlike trolls who vandalize articles, the majority of the damage caused by those misusing process is fairly indirect. Generally it is best to simply state your opposition and leave it at that. In many cases someone else has already gone through an explanation, and you can simply say you agree. If a nomination or listing is obviously going to fail, "piling on" explanation after explanation or personally attacking the nominator is not going to change anything; the listing or nomination will fail anyway. If the number of listings starts getting excessive (even if they are on separate pages) then you might want to use the dispute resolution process. Dispute resolution does take a while, though. If the number of nominations/listing is very high the most damage will be done if there is no emergency block put in place. In general, let the process run.

    Dealing with pestering and misplaced criticism

    Depending on the location and severity, this is best dealt with by ignoring it or treating it the same way as any other edit war. If it is occurring on your user talk page, ignore it, or revert slowly (once every few days). Don't feed the trolls.

    Misidentified trolls

    Since the judgment that someone is a troll is a subjective one, it is always possible that someone will be misidentified as a troll due to his/her behavior. If you believe that you are being accused of trolling when you are being sincere in your editing, consider these possible solutions.

    • "Don't do that then." If people are saying you are a troll because you do X, do not do X.

    • Assume good faith. An optimistic approach will keep you out of a lot of hot water — you do not want to be first person to act in bad faith. Often, people really do have good faith intentions and wish to resolve any disputes amicably.

    • Back away. Let the issue go for a while, let tempers cool down, come back and try discussing the matter again calmly and reasonably.

    • Consider methods of dispute resolution such as w:Wikipedia:Requests for comment and w:Wikipedia:Requests for mediation.

    • Rephrase. Often one is accused of being a troll because one is phrasing one's views in a particularly hostile way. Consider: are you openly advocating trolling on your userpage? Are you cursing at people or engaging in personal attacks? Are you accusing those who oppose you of being in a cabal? If you stopped that, people would probably respond better to you.

    • Concede. Sometimes, no matter how right you are sure you are, the consensus is going to go against you. When this happens, let it go. Maybe someday someone else will come along and raise the same issue, and the discussion can begin anew, and this time turn out differently.

    If, no matter how much you try to be reasonable, you are still being accused of trolling, you may be tempted to create a new user account and "start over". Please see w:Wikipedia:Sock puppet regarding this, and note that it is strongly discouraged. It is better to rebuild trust in your existing name, than to appear to be evading a negative reputation. You are more likely to build up a reservoir of tolerance if you act in a consistent way that people can comprehend and anticipate — and keeping the same account name is part of that.[/i]

    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_troll%3F

  2. #152
    Member lizng's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    this isn't wikipedia

  3. #153
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    Talking Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    First!

  4. #154
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    FOI, the great hijacker.

    xoxo
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Arcade FIre are a bunch of dicks, Deadmau5 is a dick, bands are dicks, David Bowie sucks dicks, Daft Punk is two human buttholes with semen for brains (that was loaded into a butthole from a dick that grew out of their moms), we're all dicks that fucked our moms assholes, God is going to put a giant dick down and fuck our mouths

  5. #155

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    just let people talk and not tell us what to do. just cause u have gone to coachella every year dose not mean your special. none of you wannabe no it alls are special. you "regulars" are fucking arrogant and annoying so shut the fuck up.

  6. #156
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    just let people talk and not tell us what to do. No.

    just cause u have gone to coachella every year dose not mean your special. Yes, it dose

    none of you wannabe no it alls are special. Sounds like you know all about being special.

    you "regulars" are fucking arrogant and annoying so shut the fuck up. Nuh uh.
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Arcade FIre are a bunch of dicks, Deadmau5 is a dick, bands are dicks, David Bowie sucks dicks, Daft Punk is two human buttholes with semen for brains (that was loaded into a butthole from a dick that grew out of their moms), we're all dicks that fucked our moms assholes, God is going to put a giant dick down and fuck our mouths

  7. #157
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

  8. #158

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Piss Off

  9. #159
    Coachella Junkie HandBanana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    OH HAI! MRRPHPPHBBBLLLLLLLLLE SHAMON!"



  10. #160
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    Talking Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    OOps sorry...I'm not "from here"

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    .....we now return you to your regularly scheduled program.......

  12. #162

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    I WILL NOT POST THIS PICTURE ON THE BOARD AGAIN, OR ELSE...
    "You might be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the reaper."
    -The Grim Reaper

  13. #163
    Old Gay Guy gaypalmsprings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandBanana View Post
    OH HAI! MRRPHPPHBBBLLLLLLLLLE SHAMON!"


    Quote Originally Posted by SepaGroove View Post
    You shouldn't feel uncool for not going to EDC, you should feel uncool because you are uncool.

  14. #164
    old school
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Failed State View Post
    nothing to see
    Thats durty

  15. #165
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    THANK YOU.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    Daft Punk will unveil its third member, Crush.

  16. #166
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    edited with the current board colors before the board changes.
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Arcade FIre are a bunch of dicks, Deadmau5 is a dick, bands are dicks, David Bowie sucks dicks, Daft Punk is two human buttholes with semen for brains (that was loaded into a butthole from a dick that grew out of their moms), we're all dicks that fucked our moms assholes, God is going to put a giant dick down and fuck our mouths

  17. #167

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    hmmmmm
    Like my Art page http://www.facebook.com/JoshGeyerArt

    Don't Be a Dummy, Check the Expiration Date Silly

    99,01,02,03,04,05,06,07,08,09,10

  18. #168
    AMBIVALENT bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Are you gonna update this with the new board colors?

  19. #169
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Nah. I like to have the old board colors on here so there's a distinction (it's easier to read).
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Arcade FIre are a bunch of dicks, Deadmau5 is a dick, bands are dicks, David Bowie sucks dicks, Daft Punk is two human buttholes with semen for brains (that was loaded into a butthole from a dick that grew out of their moms), we're all dicks that fucked our moms assholes, God is going to put a giant dick down and fuck our mouths

  20. #170

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Fuck you stupid

  21. #171
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Goddamn you for changing that password.
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Arcade FIre are a bunch of dicks, Deadmau5 is a dick, bands are dicks, David Bowie sucks dicks, Daft Punk is two human buttholes with semen for brains (that was loaded into a butthole from a dick that grew out of their moms), we're all dicks that fucked our moms assholes, God is going to put a giant dick down and fuck our mouths

  22. #172

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    I read it. I'll be good. I promise.

  23. #173
    Member GoodEarth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    Quote Originally Posted by captncrzy View Post
    2009 update on navigating the boardz and not getting your feelings hurt.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    1---You should be aware regulars are VERY QUICK about posting information related to Coachella. We already know just about everything that is going on. So unless Paul Tollett himself calls you and gives you an exclusive interview and tells you specifically that the Smiths are reuniting and you are smart enough to record it, don't bother; we probably already know. If you're not sure if we know, search first (see below).


    2---The only real lineup poster is on Coachella.com. Anything else is a fake. Nothing is confirmed until the official lineup comes out. Also, if you tell us that someone you know has a dad, mom, boyfriend, husband, girlfriend or whatever that works for Goldenvoice and they told you that so-and-so is playing, we probably aren't going to believe you. So don't get butthurt when we tell you so.


    3---We don't know when the lineup will be released, when the poster will be up, why the poster isn't organized the way you like it, or who will be added after the lineup is out. We don't know. I repeat, we don't know. And you don't know either-so don't claim you do. If you feel the need to ask, try utilizing the search function (see below). It's probably already been asked and answered 500 times.


    4---It's imperative that you utilize the fantastic search function. Here is a tutorial.


    Step 1: the search button is located in the upper right hand side of your screen. Clicking on it will bring up a search window.







    Step 2: the search window allows you to enter a string of text, and then allows you to search for your information by thread or by individual post. As you can see from the example, I am doing a search to see if anyone here knows anything about Muse. I have entered "Muse" into the text box, and have selected "show threads". Click on Go.






    WTF? 500+ threads with Muse in them? That's just too damn much.






    Let's try doing a more comprehensive search. Go back to where you before, and instead of entering a string of text, click on Advanced Search.






    This search window is broken into five areas:

    Area 1) Enter a string of text that represents the band you are looking for information on. In this instance, I have entered "Muse".

    Area 2) If you are looking for information posted by a particular person, you can enter that person's board name here. I have not entered anything.

    Area 3) This area allows you to further narrow your search. You can find threads that have a certain number of replies, find threads or posts based on age, and determine how you want your results displayed. In this case, I am looking for information that has been posted within the last six months. This will keep me from viewing threads that popped up about Muse LAST YEAR.

    Area 4) This final area allows you to look in certain sections of the board for information.

    Area 5) Allows you to view your results as posts or threads.







    Hey now! Seven threads have been created in the last six months with the words Muse in the title. And it's still early! It even shows them in date order so you know you're reading the most current information available! Very nice!







    5---Read the FAQ before posting questions like "Can I bring in alcohol?", "Where should I stay?", etc. They've done a pretty good job of putting together every damn thing you could possibly want to know. Don't clutter up the board your retardation.

    To get to the FAQ, click on the link in the bar at the top of the page:












    This concludes your tutorial to the Coachella message board. Don't be scared-just don't be stupid. And, no whining.


    That wicked sweet post made me cum real hard

    Thanks for the wood

  24. #174

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!


  25. #175

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!


  26. #176

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!


  27. #177
    Member Iamjoeswastdlife's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    I get what you're trying to do. I know this has been here for a while, and I don't think I've ever commented on it, but the fact that you put so much time and thought into that post is absolutely pathetic and indicates nothing more than the fact that you are an elitist prick.

  28. #178

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    ^^^

  29. #179

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    He has a little bit to much alone time, give Rosie pawms and lefty a rest and go outside lol

  30. #180

    Default Re: Attention new people-how to avoid getting flamed!

    I Love you J.

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