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Thread: let the festival wars begin!!

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    Default let the festival wars begin!!

    THIS IS THE START OF EVERY REGION HAVING ITS OWN MAJOR FESTIVAL!

    Posted on Wed, Nov. 14, 2007


    Two festivals pitched to rock Fairmount Park
    By Dan DeLuca

    Inquirer Music Critic

    From Live Aid to Live 8, Philadelphia has hosted its share of mega-concerts.
    But next summer, a proposed multiday music festival in Fairmount Park could draw even more people to town than those global music events.

    Call it Philapalooza.

    Today, the Fairmount Park Commission is scheduled to meet to vote on whether to approve a recommendation by the park's fund-raising wing, the Fairmount Park Conservancy, to contract with C3 Presents to hold a three-day festival in August, featuring 90 to 120 music acts, on Belmont Plateau.

    C3, based in Austin, Texas, is the nation's third-largest concert promoter and produces the annual Austin City Limits and Lollapalooza music festivals. Austin City Limits drew 225,000 people to Zilker Park in September, and Lollapalooza pulled in 159,000 to Chicago's Grant Park in August, according to Pollstar, the magazine that monitors the concert industry.

    Each included scores of acts, with headliners such as Pearl Jam, Amy Winehouse and Philadelphia's the Roots at Lollapalooza, and Bob Dylan, Björk and the White Stripes at Austin City Limits. According to C3, each contributed mightily to local economies: Austin City Limits has generated an economic impact of $129 million since its inception in 2002, and Lollapalooza $106 million since 2005.

    However, at today's 1 p.m. public meeting at the Horticultural Center, C3's plan won't be the only one on the table. The Fairmount Park Commission also will consider a proposal for a multiday festival next summer from Electric Factory Concerts, the longtime Philadelphia company now owned by Live Nation, the world's largest concert promoter.

    In a statement last week, the conservancy deemed the C3 bid preferable, in part due to the company's "experience producing multiday, multi-stage concerts." The conservancy also cited C3's willingness to pay for all city-related expenses and contribute $500,000 or 7.5 percent of gross ticket sales, whichever is greater, to the conservancy.

    The conservancy aims to raise awareness and money for the 9,200-acre Fairmount Park system, which takes up 11 percent of the city's land, according to conservancy director Katrina L. Wilhelm. She declined to comment yesterday on the proposals.

    A C3 'palooza is by no means a done deal. Electric Factory, which books concerts at the Tweeter Center in Camden, the Wachovia Center in South Philadelphia, and many other venues throughout the region, is looking to celebrate its 40th anniversary in 2008.

    In an interview, Electric Factory head Larry Magid said his company had been inquiring about staging a festival next summer at the Mann Center for the Performing Arts when it got wind of the C3 bid.

    "Coincidentally, someone else had an idea, too," Magid said. He said it was too early to talk about acts that might play a two- or three-day festival promoted by Electric Factory.

    "We've done a lot of things in the city over the years - from Live Aid to Live 8," Magid said before heading to Toronto for a concert by Stevie Wonder, whose tour he is promoting. "And we go all the way back to the Atlantic City Pop Festival in 1969."

    Asked about a report in the Philadelphia Daily News that he was "outraged" about C3's proposal, and that he had told the Texans "if you're going to come to my town, you'd better bring a gun," Magid said: "That's silly. I'm not going to get drawn into that."

    The competition between Electric Factory and C3 - whose executives declined to comment for this article, but are set to attend the commission meeting - can be seen as a new front in the turf war between Live Nation, a division of Clear Channel, and smaller promoters over the growing festival market.

    In the first nine months this year, Live Nation reported 27.9 million tickets sold worldwide, according to Pollstar. Its closest competition, AEG of Los Angeles, tallied 8.5 million. C3 - named after its "three Charlies," Jones, Attal and Walker - came in third, with 761,000.

    Throughout this decade, several annual music festivals around the country have risen to prominence, from Coachella in California in April to Bonnaroo in Tennessee in June to Vegoose in Las Vegas at Halloween, all produced by Live Nation competitors.

    "Live Nation controls much of the concert market," said Gary Bongiovanni, editor of Pollstar. "And they have said that they want to do more festivals."

    Meanwhile, C3 has proved itself "by developing two significant festivals, and by reviving the Lollapalooza brand," he said. Lollapalooza was established by Jane's Addiction singer Perry Farrell in 1991, and toured as a traveling alt-rock circus until 1997 before being successfully relaunched in 2005.

    "What's interesting about that is that they did that in Chicago, a market they had no presence in," Bongiovanni said. "Their festivals are run very well. When you're the little guy, you've got to do everything perfect."

  2. #2
    Milkshake suprefan's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Live Nation just wants to gets its hands into everything, they are going to go head to head with any market thinking of putting on a festival now. Although, if they get a Street scene type of line up, nobody is going to go. I am sure C3 will win out and have the hold on a festival in Philly.

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    Coachella Junkie dorkfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    So it's like Coachella, but you have a chance of being shot at any given moment.
    *based upon tedious fact checking.

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    Coachella Junkie rage patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    There are way too many major festivals going on. What is their logic? I would think, the more festivals there are, the less will attend each.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    And it's been long established that Chris hates fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatinisbad View Post
    I took my niece this year and it was her first Coachella. It was so fun to see it through her eyes. She thought it felt like a magical scene from Shreck. The one where all the fairy tale creatures meet for the first time in Shreck's swamp.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    There are way too many major festivals going on. What is their logic? I would think, the more festivals there are, the less will attend each.
    there are ZERO festivals in the northeast. There was almost Field Day in 2003 which would've been basically Coachella East...but that was a big flop. A festival up here would save me shitloads of money.

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    Coachella Junkie summerkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    virgin festival?
    The White Stripes 9/18

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    There are way too many major festivals going on. What is their logic? I would think, the more festivals there are, the less will attend each.
    You ever look at Europe and England? The U.K. has one every single weekend in the summer pretty much starting with Glastonbury and ending with Reading. They all sell out, and that country is tiny, where is the logic in that having a dozen festivals and supposedly attendance will be low right?

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by summerkid View Post
    virgin festival?
    Baltimore doesn't count. Cuz I said so. And it's 5 hours...and it never looks as good as coachella.

    How is it that there's no mega festival within 2 or 3 hours of New York City? Yeah sure...every music act and their mothers come through New York City...and yeah we have CMJ...which is totally not like Coachella at all, but there's no real 3 day music festival dealy up here.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    I wanted to go field Day after I got a flyer handed to me at Coachella 2003, then all the crap happend and I was a little glad I didnt go.


    Did you go to Between the Narrows?(or whatever it was called) back in 2004/2005? The line up was solid but the format was kind of whack.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by suprefan View Post
    I wanted to go field Day after I got a flyer handed to me at Coachella 2003, then all the crap happend and I was a little glad I didnt go.


    Did you go to Between the Narrows?(or whatever it was called) back in 2004/2005? The line up was solid but the format was kind of whack.
    Across the Narrows...I would've but I had a wedding to go to in Annapolis. It didn't do all that well...which is obvious because it didn't come back.

    Field Day was pretty much gonna be my annual tradition. I lived about 45 minutes from the original grounds. Fucking long island.

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    MENACING Courtney's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerdurden31 View Post
    there are ZERO festivals in the northeast. There was almost Field Day in 2003 which would've been basically Coachella East...but that was a big flop.
    I had tickets to that. Thinking about it still makes me a little sad.

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    Coachella Junkie rage patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by suprefan View Post
    You ever look at Europe and England? The U.K. has one every single weekend in the summer pretty much starting with Glastonbury and ending with Reading. They all sell out, and that country is tiny, where is the logic in that having a dozen festivals and supposedly attendance will be low right?
    Obviously, that works in the UK. Not over here though. People in North America dont drop money on concerts and festivals like they do in Europe. Also, Europe being tiny is a big reason the festivals do so well. Basicaly everthing is within driving distance! Obviously, that is a little over exaggeration, but you get my point. Here, you basicaly have to fly everywhere. And flying is not cheap. In the UK, there are probably 4-5 festivals going on SOMEWHERE around you that you could easily drive to at any point during the summer. The only festivals within driving distance to me are Coachella and Sasquatch. Well... maybe Vegoose too.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    And it's been long established that Chris hates fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatinisbad View Post
    I took my niece this year and it was her first Coachella. It was so fun to see it through her eyes. She thought it felt like a magical scene from Shreck. The one where all the fairy tale creatures meet for the first time in Shreck's swamp.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    I had tickets to that. Thinking about it still makes me a little sad.
    I went to the one day version at Giants Stadium. The lineup still wasn't bad.

    Radiohead, Beastie Boys, Blur, Underworld, Spiritualized, Liz Phair, Elliott Smith, Bright Eyes, My Morning Jacket, Thursday, Beth Orton, 22-20's, Ours, Gemma Hayes

    Beck was supposed to be there...but he slipped and apparently hurt himself

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerdurden31 View Post
    I went to the one day version at Giants Stadium. The lineup still wasn't bad.

    Radiohead, Beastie Boys, Blur, Underworld, Spiritualized, Liz Phair, Elliott Smith, Bright Eyes, My Morning Jacket, Thursday, Beth Orton, 22-20's, Ours, Gemma Hayes

    Beck was supposed to be there...but he slipped and apparently hurt himself
    Yeah. I remember being it being really rainy. And I was so disappointed that something called Field Day ended up being held in a stadium. In retrospect, it seems a little crazy that they canceled it because of endangered birds or whatever excuse they used -- there must have been more politics at play than I was aware of.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    Yeah. I remember being it being really rainy. And I was so disappointed that something called Field Day ended up being held in a stadium. In retrospect, it seems a little crazy that they canceled it because of endangered birds or whatever excuse they used -- there must have been more politics at play than I was aware of.
    A bunch of old Long Island fuckheads didn't want kids having fun.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Yeah the Field Day thing was so stupid, I remember reading the stories on it. And Clear Channel had some say in it too cause they didnt like it that somebody was putting this together and it wasnt them.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    We need a festival in Phoenix in February. The we'd be first. And the weather is usually gorgeous then. Usually.
    Quote Originally Posted by guedita View Post
    Because fucking millenials that's what

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    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    There are way too many major festivals going on. What is their logic? I would think, the more festivals there are, the less will attend each.
    by "too many" are you making a business judgment

    or a moralistic philisophical argument?


    I need to know so I can refute appropriately.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    I would go wth business, but still. You need healthy competition. If everyone is trying their hardest to get the best line ups it makes it all better cause then we wont just get s**t whenever festivals get announced each year.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    it's C3's money to risk. they obviously think another festival would fly. Who are we to tell them otherwise?

    and i agree I would like to see more competition. make Paul T work a little harder, though he seems to have found a new cash cow in selling RV passes to NASCAR families.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

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    Coachella Junkie Boourns's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by suprefan View Post
    Yeah the Field Day thing was so stupid, I remember reading the stories on it. And Clear Channel had some say in it too cause they didnt like it that somebody was putting this together and it wasnt them.
    And if Clear Channel had been involved, the lineup would have been Evanescence, 50 Cent, Norah Jones, Kid Rock, Chingy, Train, etc.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    I think regional festivals are a great thing for the people in said regions. Not everyone can afford a destination festival like Coachella or Bonnaroo every year.

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    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by amyzzz View Post
    We need a festival in Phoenix in February. The we'd be first. And the weather is usually gorgeous then. Usually.
    amy this is a fabulous idea. Fabulous. srsly. if we could get bands to accomdate their schedules that is.

    where will this festival be held? I'm thinking Gila River would work. or PIR? someplace with lots of space where the noise would be unnoticed.

    I wonder how much money you need to start a festival. hmmmm.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    I wonder how much money you need to start a festival. hmmmm.
    Hm well articles have said that Goldenvoice took an $800,000 hit on Coachella the first year, and we know they sold about 25,000 people tickets at $50 each. I don't know about revenue from sponsors and merchandise sales. But the other factors mean that they spent at least $2 million in 1999.

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    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    The Az market isn't worth risking that kind of money on. I don't have that much faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

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    Milkshake suprefan's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    GV took a bigger hit than that. Thats a conservative estimate. Unless Dani comes in and corrects of course it was about 2 million they lost. Keep this in mind they broke the bank and GV was hanging on by a string after that just in general thus why it didnt happen the following year. Field Day lost 4 million doing it the way they did last minute.

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    MENACING Courtney's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Suprefan I don't just make this stuff up:

    Paul Tollett has always been a concert promoter with vision. After taking an $800,000 hit on the inaugural Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival in 1999, the president of Los Angeles-based Goldenvoice never lost hope. "It seemed like $8 million, but even though I lost all that money, I knew we did something great," 41-year-old Tollett says from his office in AEG Live headquarters.
    Source

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    Coachella Junkie rage patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    by "too many" are you making a business judgment

    or a moralistic philisophical argument?


    I need to know so I can refute appropriately.
    I was thinking more on the business side of things. Sure it creates healthy competition, but at a certain point, people dont have the money to spend to keep going to all these festivals.
    Coachella, Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, ACL, Sasquatch, Vegose, Voodoo, Langerado, V-Fest... thats a lot of competition already. Did I leave any out? I probably did...
    But that is a lot of competition already. And as people have stated, some amazing festivals have flopped. Like Field Day for example. Or more recently, it looks like after this year, Vegoose will be no more. Both had amazing line-ups. So obviously, wether a festival does well or not, has very little to do with the line-up itself. So if we already have a number of major festivals that do well, why do we need more?
    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    And it's been long established that Chris hates fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatinisbad View Post
    I took my niece this year and it was her first Coachella. It was so fun to see it through her eyes. She thought it felt like a magical scene from Shreck. The one where all the fairy tale creatures meet for the first time in Shreck's swamp.

  29. #29
    old school Tylerdurden31's Avatar
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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rage patton View Post
    I was thinking more on the business side of things. Sure it creates healthy competition, but at a certain point, people dont have the money to spend to keep going to all these festivals.
    Coachella, Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, ACL, Sasquatch, Vegose, Voodoo, Langerado, V-Fest... thats a lot of competition already. Did I leave any out? I probably did...
    But that is a lot of competition already. And as people have stated, some amazing festivals have flopped. Like Field Day for example. Or more recently, it looks like after this year, Vegoose will be no more. Both had amazing line-ups. So obviously, wether a festival does well or not, has very little to do with the line-up itself. So if we already have a number of major festivals that do well, why do we need more?
    Not everyone goes to or even attempts to go to every festival they can.

    Field Day flopped not because of competition, but because of the fact that the organizers didn't get the permits they needed. If went ahead as planned, it would've survived IMO.

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    Default Re: let the festival wars begin!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    Suprefan I don't just make this stuff up:



    Source
    I never said you were wrong or that it wasnt true, I said the estimate was conservative meaning, that they werent really going to give out what was truly lost money wise but had to say something.

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