Is There Any New Music or Is It All Rehash

[canexplain]

So my Friday question: Is there any new music out or even possible or has every note been played, every sequence been put in order, every sound been made? I saw this somewhere and the question was about are there any new thoughts or ideas, so this question is the same, just pertaining to music …. Canx**


As for there being nothing new under the sun, it's possible but what about within it.

For all you know their could be a quantum gate or gravity well at the centre of this planet that transports you to a pure thought dimension where anything is possible.

Or maybe you come back down here into a new form and get to experience life from all perspectives.

Or maybe your energy goes toward the formation of a complete new planetoid itself and You become a living planet.

Or maybe you become space and squash the living daylights out of all light or expand it to infinity.

You could just be a twinkling in the eye of the entire known observable universe or just 1 corpuscle in its form.

Human intellect is unbounded, there are things out there that you don't even know exist yet.

Or have ever seen.

[TomAz]

Ron, are you in a spiritual vortex?

[canexplain]

Ron, are you in a spiritual vortex?

sometimes you would think that huh, na, sometimes i get tired of reading and answering threads about not so much stupid stuff, but just chit chat, so i pose a ? i at least think you would ponder if only for a minute ... sort of like , what are you having for breakfast today cr****

[betao]

ulrich schnauss.

listen to that man if you dont already.

[invisiblerobots]

[BROKENDOLL]

I haven't had enuf java for this thread yet...

[canexplain]

I haven't had enuf java for this thread yet...

ya, i was trying to get you to think early .. but hey, its almost lunch now, and then friday night party .... WAKE UP .... canx**

[TomAz]

So my Friday question: Is there any new music out or even possible or has every note been played, every sequence been put in order, every sound been made?

at the risk of being overly pedantic I'm going to answer 'no', but my rationale for reaching this answer may not be what you expect.

I think the fact that this question even occurs to people is a reflection of the natural human tendency to think in terms of one's own perceptions; no matter how logical we think we are people just tend to think it terms of the universe revolving around them. This is not at all a criticism, just an observation, and I'm as guilty of it as anyone. If I go to a Cardinals game and they win, I will wear that same jersey again til they lose. As if my wearing of a jersey had anything to do with the outcome on the field.

Now Ron, to examine your question we first have to ask: is it even possible that every possible music could ever have been made? I mean is it even a physical possiblity that such a thing could ever happen?? I don't know, but I doubt it. Music is so much more than A-B flat-C#, there's rhythm and harmony and overtones. Look at the waveform of the sound of high C played on a trumpet, for example, it's not just a simple wave, it's a very complex form, it takes a Fourier transform to even untangle it all. Now change one little thing in that waveform and you have a whole different sound. and that's just one note on one instrument. Keep doing that and soon you realize there are probably a billion to the billionth power possible sounds that could be made. So, I don't think its even possible that your question could ever be true.

But, let's accept the possiblity, let's take it on face value, let's just assume for the sake of this discussion that it were possible. So then the question becomes, what are the odds that it has already happened? And I think we can narrow this down even further. You don't explicitly say so in your question, but, the implication (at least in my reading of it) is that if it's happened, it's something that would have happened relatively recently. if it's happened at all, it's a relatively recent occurence. I mean all you have to do is listen to Barber's "Adaggio" or "I Am The Walrus" to know that if all possible musics have already been made, it was sometime after those pieces were produced, right?

So if you'll humor me for a moment and accept that premise (I have another argument forthcoming if the premise is not true, so hold on to your tie-dyed hat), then look what we have: Throughout the span of 10,000 years of recorded human history, we reached the point of 'all possible musics have been created' during our lifetime. What are the odds of that happening? Pretty infinitesimal! 10,000 years of human history and music picked THIS 30 year timeslot, the one *I* live in, to be completed! not too damned likely if you think about it. So why would we even think it could be true? Because we think in terms of our own perceptions, we are biased to think the universe revolves around us. plus, there have been a few things that have happened recently (man on the moon being the best example) that we can say with certainty are firsts in human history. so it seems plausible to our subconcious. but when you examine it closely you can see it almost certainly isn't true. (the music thing, not the moon thing).

Now, what if my premise (that if music has been 'completed', it is a relatively recent occurence) is not true? Maybe it was completed by Mozart? well then, the argument is different: if that's the case, we'll never know it, because it is imperceptible and immeasurable to the human mind. Cuz it sure seems to me like a lot of new stuff has been made since Mozart's time. If Mozart 'completed' music, I sure can't tell it and neither can anyone else. And since music is a uniquely human experience anyway, then the question of its having been 'completed' or not becomes irrelevant, since no one can tell the difference!


Sorry to drone on, here's a summary:

Question: Has all possible music already been made?

Answer:

1. Is this even possible? If 'no', then the answer to Ron's question is 'no'. If 'yes', go to 2.

2. If 'yes', then is it a relatively recent occurance? if yes go to a, if no go to b.

2a. The odds that this happened relatively recently are infinitesimal and so the answer is 'probably not'.

2b. If it happened a long time ago, the question is unanswerable because no one can tell the difference anyway.



ok?

[canexplain]

at the risk of being overly pedantic I'm going to answer 'no', but my rationale for reaching this answer may not be what you expect.

I think the fact that this question even occurs to people is a reflection of the natural human tendency to think in terms of one's own perceptions; no matter how logical we think we are people just tend to think it terms of the universe revolving around them. This is not at all a criticism, just an observation, and I'm as guilty of it as anyone. If I go to a Cardinals game and they win, I will wear that same jersey again til they lose. As if my wearing of a jersey had anything to do with the outcome on the field.

Now Ron, to examine your question we first have to ask: is it even possible that every possible music could ever have been made? I mean is it even a physical possiblity that such a thing could ever happen?? I don't know, but I doubt it. Music is so much more than A-B flat-C#, there's rhythm and harmony and overtones. Look at the waveform of the sound of high C played on a trumpet, for example, it's not just a simple wave, it's a very complex form, it takes a Fourier transform to even untangle it all. Now change one little thing in that waveform and you have a whole different sound. and that's just one note on one instrument. Keep doing that and soon you realize there are probably a billion to the billionth power possible sounds that could be made. So, I don't think its even possible that your question could ever be true.

But, let's accept the possiblity, let's take it on face value, let's just assume for the sake of this discussion that it were possible. So then the question becomes, what are the odds that it has already happened? And I think we can narrow this down even further. You don't explicitly say so in your question, but, the implication (at least in my reading of it) is that if it's happened, it's something that would have happened relatively recently. if it's happened at all, it's a relatively recent occurence. I mean all you have to do is listen to Barber's "Adaggio" or "I Am The Walrus" to know that if all possible musics have already been made, it was sometime after those pieces were produced, right?

So if you'll humor me for a moment and accept that premise (I have another argument forthcoming if the premise is not true, so hold on to your tie-dyed hat), then look what we have: Throughout the span of 10,000 years of recorded human history, we reached the point of 'all possible musics have been created' during our lifetime. What are the odds of that happening? Pretty infinitesimal! 10,000 years of human history and music picked THIS 30 year timeslot, the one *I* live in, to be completed! not too damned likely if you think about it. So why would we even think it could be true? Because we think in terms of our own perceptions, we are biased to think the universe revolves around us. plus, there have been a few things that have happened recently (man on the moon being the best example) that we can say with certainty are firsts in human history. so it seems plausible to our subconcious. but when you examine it closely you can see it almost certainly isn't true. (the music thing, not the moon thing).

Now, what if my premise (that if music has been 'completed', it is a relatively recent occurence) is not true? Maybe it was completed by Mozart? well then, the argument is different: if that's the case, we'll never know it, because it is imperceptible and immeasurable to the human mind. Cuz it sure seems to me like a lot of new stuff has been made since Mozart's time. If Mozart 'completed' music, I sure can't tell it and neither can anyone else. And since music is a uniquely human experience anyway, then the question of its having been 'completed' or not becomes irrelevant, since no one can tell the difference!


Sorry to drone on, here's a summary:

Question: Has all possible music already been made?

Answer:

1. Is this even possible? If 'no', then the answer to Ron's question is 'no'. If 'yes', go to 2.

2. If 'yes', then is it a relatively recent occurance? if yes go to a, if no go to b.

2a. The odds that this happened relatively recently are infinitesimal and so the answer is 'probably not'.

2b. If it happened a long time ago, the question is unanswerable because no one can tell the difference anyway.



ok?

wow, great comments and insight .. bumber sticker talk here .... one reason i was thinking about the question is: read this article .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem ... i guess after reading it, it says that using my example of music, yes it is possible for all music to have been created but the odds are so close to 0, that it is one of the current "thought experiments" ie: see link on the monkey page ... its way to deep in places for me, but i found it very interesting .. i have heard that question since i was in high school so its not original to say the least ...... canx**