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Thread: Food for thought.

  1. #1
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Food for thought.

    A ruling from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has concluded that municipal employers have the right to censor the words "natural family," "marriage" and "family values" because that is hate speech and could scare workers.

    The ruling came in a case being handled by the Pro-Family Law Center, which promised an appeal of the drastic result.

    "We are going to take this case right up the steps of the United States Supreme Court," said Richard D. Ackerman, who along with Scott Lively argued the case for the Pro-Family Law Center.

    "We are simply unwilling to accept that Christians can be completely silenced on the issues of the day – especially on issues such as same-sex marriage, parental rights, and free speech rights," he said.

    "If we fail to get U.S. Supreme Court review, however, it will be up to each individual Christian in the United States to stand up for their rights to be heard on the issues of the day. If we choose to be silent, silenced we shall be," he said.

    The decision came in an unpublished "memorandum" from the court, and was in a dispute over the promotion of the homosexual lifestyle within the city offices of Oakland, Calif.

    It found that municipalities have a right to dictate what form an employee's speech may take, even if it is in regard to controversial public issues.

    "Public employers are permitted to curtail employee speech as long as their 'legitimate administrative interests' outweigh the employee's interest in freedom of speech," said the court's opinion by judges B. Fletcher, Clifton and Ikuta, who noted that their writings are "not appropriate for publication."

    "The district court appropriately described [the Christians' speech rights] as 'vanishingly small,'" the opinion continued.

    However, as the Pro-Family Law Center noted, the court "completely failed to address the concerns of the appellants with respect to the fact that the City of Oakland's Gay-Straight Employees Alliance was openly allowed to attack the Bible in widespread city e-mails, to deride Christian values as antiquated, and to refer to Bible-believing Christians as hateful. When the plaintiffs attempted to refute this blatant attack on people of faith, they were threatened with immediate termination by the City of Oakland. The Ninth Circuit did not feel that the threat of immediate termination had any effect on free speech."

    The case had developed when two city employees who wanted to launch a group of people who shared their interests posted a notice on a city bulletin board – after a series of notices from homosexual activists were delivered to them via the city's e-mail system, bulletin boards and memo distribution system.

    The notice said:


    Good News Employee Associations is a forum for people of Faith to express their views on the contemporary issues of the day. With respect for the Natural Family, Marriage and Family values.
    If you would like to be a part of preserving integrity in the Workplace call Regina Rederford @xxx- xxxx or Robin Christy @xxx-xxxx

    But Robert Bobb, then city manager, and Joyce Hicks, then deputy director of the Community and Economic Development Agency, ordered their notice removed, because it contained "statements of a homophobic nature" and promoted "sexual-orientation-based harassment."

    U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker had ruled in 2005 that Oakland had a right to prevent the employees from posting that Good News Employee Association flier promoting traditional family values on the office bulletin board.

    That decision was made even though homosexuals already had been using the city's e-mail, bulletin board, and written communications systems for promoting their views. In fact, one city official even used the e-mail system to declare the Bible "needs updating," but no actions were taken against those individuals.

    The case was argued recently at a special session of the 9th Circuit at the Stanford University Law School.

    "The city of Oakland has interpreted this district court's ruling to mean that Christianity has no place in our society and should be subject to punishment. I want to believe that our Supreme Court will ultimately decide this case on the values and instructions set forth in motion by the nations Founders," said Ackerman.

    Ackerman's' firm represents the women and said the Pro-Family Law Center and Abiding Truth Ministries have helped underwrite the thousands of dollars it has cost to fight the city's aggressive promotion of the homosexual lifestyle.

    from wnd.
    disregard the bias. the main point is freedom of speech. also, is this what we now call progression?

    another thing. do you remeber what happend on june 6th a long time ago? without searching for it.
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

  2. #2
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    June 6th was D-Day.

    gonna look for facts on this ruling.

    edit ok these people were posting anti-homosexual fliers at work. clearly that is hate speech.
    Last edited by TomAz; 06-08-2007 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  3. #3
    business time tessalasset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ardentbiscuit View Post
    This is the equivalent of musical water boarding.

  4. #4
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    I am not sure where the food for thought is.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  5. #5
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    the food is the question and the idea concerning free speech and progression.
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

  6. #6
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    Fucking bible-bangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by miscorrections View Post
    I think the safest course is to assume everyone is a fucking nightmare and proceed from there.
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.

  7. #7
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    i was thinking more like - fucking pole smoking bundle of sticks.
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

  8. #8
    Member theburiedlife's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    Are you an alias?
    Quote Originally Posted by TeamCoachellaHellYeah View Post
    this is fantastic news...we can all fist ourselves in peace now...
    http://www.last.fm/user/theburydlife

    2011 Wishlist: Soviet Soviet, Swans, Heroin and Your Veins, Lower Dens, The December Sound, Scarlet Youth, Faunts, Bad Lieutenant, The Besnard Lakes, The Raveonettes, Screen Vinyl Image, Sway

  9. #9
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by marooko View Post
    the food is the question and the idea concerning free speech and progression.
    We have a justice system. That's progress over blood fueds and just general fighting.

    We have limits on our free speech. This is entirely reasonable as we have to live with other people.

    We have an incoherent article from whatever "wmd" is that starts out with a misleading at best paragraph. Show me where in the court's decision it says that a flyer can't use the word "marriage."

    We have vague mentions of other flyers other groups/people have put up but no real explanation of what that has to do with the flyers the group being charged has put up. Saying "other people ran that red light too" won't get you out of a ticket.

    We have your reference to D-Day (probably) but I can't sort out the layers on how that has anything to do with this.

    So those are my thoughts, for now. I still don't understand what your question about progress is supposed to mean, exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  10. #10
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    i hoped to start discussion, instead i got a fucking lawyer analyzing the legalities of this fucking thread.

    i wrote more but then deleted it cause this is just too much for friday. i need a fucking drink.
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

  11. #11
    Dark Lord mountmccabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    This:
    Quote Originally Posted by marooko View Post
    i was thinking more like - fucking pole smoking bundle of sticks.
    is not discussion.


    I'mn't bumping this thread again.

    marooko I hope you get that drink and also say hi to everyone else on my ignore list.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulDischarge View Post
    See how wrong you are, Tommy? Randy is agreeing with you.

  12. #12
    old school crazzz2007's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    June 6th was D-Day.

    gonna look for facts on this ruling.

    edit ok these people were posting anti-homosexual fliers at work. clearly that is hate speech.
    yes, clearly that is hate speech.

    however, the court ruling is ridiculously overbroad. it's like bringing back prohibition because some people aren't responsible with alcohol.

  13. #13
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    The notice said:


    Good News Employee Associations is a forum for people of Faith to express their views on the contemporary issues of the day. With respect for the Natural Family, Marriage and Family values.
    If you would like to be a part of preserving integrity in the Workplace call Regina Rederford @xxx- xxxx or Robin Christy @xxx-xxxx


    this is hate speech??

    i need to do a little research to find the things myself. ill be back monday. maybe sooner. TomAz thanks for your thoughts on the matter. and not anal-izing the threads intent.

    edit: The flier in question was posted Jan. 3, 2003, on an employee bulletin board where a variety of political and sexually oriented causes are promoted. Titled, "Preserve Our Workplace With Integrity," the entire text said:

    Good News Employee Associations is a forum for people of Faith to express their views on the contemporary issues of the day. With respect for the Natural Family, Marriage and Family values.

    If you would like to be a part of preserving integrity in the Workplace call Regina Rederford @xxx- xxxx or Robin Christy @xxx-xxxx

    so why is anti gay hate speech but anti religion not labeled as such?
    Last edited by marooko; 06-08-2007 at 03:56 PM.
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

  14. #14
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazzz2007 View Post
    yes, clearly that is hate speech.

    however, the court ruling is ridiculously overbroad. it's like bringing back prohibition because some people aren't responsible with alcohol.
    kinda how im feeling. minus the clearly its hate speech part. who defines hate speech? whoever is offended? is that what we really want?
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

  15. #15
    Peaceful Oasis TomAz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    the courts define hate speech, in the absence of direction from congress.

    and "natural family" is a loaded term and you know it. if you want to have a serious discussion don't be disingenuous.
    Quote Originally Posted by efrain44 View Post
    Anyone know who the guy in the Cardinals jersey is? I've seen him in pictures on the board and I thought I saw him this year.

  16. #16
    Stage Manager captncrzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    Saying "other people ran that red light too" won't get you out of a ticket.
    It does if you bat your eyelids and have a low-cut shirt on.


    And yes, saying things like "bring back integrity to the workplace" is a COMPLETELY LOADED statement. Insult by proxy-you only have integrity if you are of their religious beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by miscorrections View Post
    I think the safest course is to assume everyone is a fucking nightmare and proceed from there.
    Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I hate the unholy rabble and keep them away - Horace.

  17. #17
    Banned marooko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Food for thought.

    ok this is what i was looking for. i agree "preserve our workplace with integrity" is a complete attack. and "natural family" is pretty damn suggestive also. what if it were "traditional family"? what about the bible needing to be "revised"? that was on a flier posted by others. if your beliefe system is religion and the bible i would think that would be an attack just as "natural family" would be an attack on people who arent part of a "natural family".

    im not trying to be bias or disingenuous, i am asking questions in a certain manner though to here what people think. and someone please tell "mount" i send them kisses also and that inside.....im totally crying. ill miss you.
    Originally Posted by Riggins33
    Why don't you show me a pic of what you look like and I'll send you a pick of myself. I'm 6'5 230....
    Quote Originally Posted by PotVsKtl View Post
    Would you care to list the fixes I've proposed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogvolta View Post
    Thank god I did't suck that guy's dick.

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