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Thread: The Girls Only Thread

  1. #19201
    Coachella Junkie heart cooks brain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    what's curious to me is how it is decided that a corporation is ''closely-held'' and that the religious beliefs are ''sincerely-held''.
    Last edited by heart cooks brain; 06-30-2014 at 08:51 AM.
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  2. #19202
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    so are you saying that before ACA, Hobby Lobby had the right to opt-out of providing birth control as part of health insurance? because they used to. that is what i don't understand.
    They did. They weren't required to provide health insurance at all, and what they did provide was completely their choice. And, for all we know, if they provided it prior to the change of law, they may continue to do so and they may have just brought this challenge because they're five year olds and you can't tell them what to do.
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  3. #19203
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    BUT THEY DID PROVIDE HEALTH INSURANCE.

    whatever, people can argue all the loopholes, but that doesn't make this any less bullshit. both towards woman and the whole corporate personhood concept.
    oh, i agree with you completely. i'm just trying to answer your question.

    am i right in thinking, based on this least restrictive means that picking up a birth control prescription will come at the same cost to the user tomorrow as it did yesterday, and that the percentage that was paid by your health insurance is nowpicked up by the government?

    also, will premiums for women go down?
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    If moles had subways, molestation wouldn't be one of the creepiest words there is ....
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  4. #19204
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Per the IRS, closely held corporations have more than 50% of the value of their outstanding stock owned (directly or indirectly) by 5 or fewer individuals at any time during the last half of the tax year. And yes, some pretty huge corporations (including Hobby Lobby!) qualify as closely-held.

    The sincere religious belief question was kind of elided. In cases involving real people, it's easy to establish a record of sincere belief in a trial or motion hearing -- you have the person explain the beliefs, how they came to them, etc. etc. In this new world of corporate personhood, I think it is a far more difficult question to establish what the company's religious beliefs are. The majority opinion even admits that partners in a closely held corporation can and do disagree. But for the purpose the case before it, the Court found that Hobby Lobby's family owners had established a clear record of sincere religious belief that several of the types of covered contraception were akin to abortion.
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  5. #19205
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    They did. They weren't required to provide health insurance at all, and what they did provide was completely their choice. And, for all we know, if they provided it prior to the change of law, they may continue to do so and they may have just brought this challenge because they're five year olds and you can't tell them what to do.
    thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by heart cooks brain View Post
    oh, i agree with you completely. i'm just trying to answer your question.

    am i right in thinking, based on this least restrictive means that picking up a birth control prescription will come at the same cost to the user tomorrow as it did yesterday, and that the percentage that was paid by your health insurance is nowpicked up by the government?

    also, will premiums for women go down?
    good question. in ginsberg's dissent she noted that IUD's can cost an entire month's pay if you're on minimum wage.

    and i always though the "sincere religious belief" is basically so you can't say "i just created this religion so that i can shoot heroin".
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  6. #19206
    Coachella Junkie heart cooks brain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    does that mean each individual company has to sue to establish an exemption?
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    If moles had subways, molestation wouldn't be one of the creepiest words there is ....
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Eat don't chat ...When I figure out what windlowless is, I'll respond .
    i hear voices in my head and they keep caaaaallin' me

  7. #19207
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    For practical purposes, I think what it means at this point is that the administration has to grant an exemption to any closely-held company that requests one, or it will draft a new policy to provide accommodations. I think the administration could test the limits of this more if it wanted to, but given the significant loss here and the goal of actually getting contraceptive coverage to women, they will try to work something new out rather than inviting a new round of litigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
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    It's hard to argue with that.

  8. #19208
    ankle biter guedita's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Corporate Religious Liberty.

    I don't even know how to process that that is....a thing.

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  9. #19209
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    ok, so in further reading, i see that before the ACA, hobby lobby tried to stop providing the drugs they don't agree with. plan B isn't really an abortion from my understanding, it's conception prevention. it's similar to taking a bunch of birth control within a few days of unprotected sex. my understanding of plan B has always been that if you have already conceived, it won't work. that's why you only have a few days to take it. so why are we letting hobby lobby have incorrect beliefs that conflict with actual science?
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  10. #19210
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not get crazy here and start letting scientific facts get in the way of people's religious beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  11. #19211
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    ok, so in further reading, i see that before the ACA, hobby lobby tried to stop providing the drugs they don't agree with. plan B isn't really an abortion from my understanding, it's conception prevention. it's similar to taking a bunch of birth control within a few days of unprotected sex. my understanding of plan B has always been that if you have already conceived, it won't work. that's why you only have a few days to take it. so why are we letting hobby lobby have incorrect beliefs that conflict with actual science?
    "This Court, however, held that “it is not for us to say that the line he drew was an unreasonable one.”" 573 US 37

    Apparently if it's a religious belief, it's allowed to be wacko. I wonder if polygamists have used this language to support their cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Remember Hitler? I don't but here we are again .. cr****

  12. #19212
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmack86 View Post
    "This Court, however, held that “it is not for us to say that the line he drew was an unreasonable one.”" 573 US 37
    well that clarifies everything!
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  13. #19213
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    isn't this a de facto way to subsidize religion, and therefore open to the argument that it violates the 1st amendment?
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
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  14. #19214
    Coachella Junkie Miroir Noir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Yes, a point made by my former law professor here.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    To you guys I say Wat?????????? Off to ?????? ....... cr****
    Quote Originally Posted by TomAz View Post
    It's hard to argue with that.

  15. #19215
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

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  16. #19216
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    i think the better comparison is that they cover vasectomies.
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  17. #19217
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    is spermicide covered?
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    If moles had subways, molestation wouldn't be one of the creepiest words there is ....
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Eat don't chat ...When I figure out what windlowless is, I'll respond .
    i hear voices in my head and they keep caaaaallin' me

  18. #19218
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Viagra could be used to help a man with erectile dysfunction to have sex and get his wife pregnant. Birth control prevents pregnancy. I have never understood why the argument about those two drugs was ever brought up in the first place - the entire issue is that religious idiots have a problem with contraceptives, not with sex. Viagra is a non-issue in this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    i think the better comparison is that they cover vasectomies.
    Correct.
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  19. #19219

    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    - the entire issue is that religious idiots have a problem with contraceptives, not with sex.
    You've really wrapped your big brain around this issue.

  20. #19220
    Coachella Junkie heart cooks brain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    religious opposition to contraception is the vehicle through which corporate convervatism is winning a minor victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    If moles had subways, molestation wouldn't be one of the creepiest words there is ....
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Eat don't chat ...When I figure out what windlowless is, I'll respond .
    i hear voices in my head and they keep caaaaallin' me

  21. #19221
    Coachella Junkie chairmenmeow47's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    it's ok, hobby lobby is still investing in these drugs!

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...on-drug-makers
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome View Post
    It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

  22. #19222
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    but you only benefit from the investment after you're too old to benefit from the drug so it's fine
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    If moles had subways, molestation wouldn't be one of the creepiest words there is ....
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
    Eat don't chat ...When I figure out what windlowless is, I'll respond .
    i hear voices in my head and they keep caaaaallin' me

  23. #19223

    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by heart cooks brain View Post
    religious opposition to contraception is the vehicle through which corporate convervatism is winning a minor victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47 View Post
    it's ok, hobby lobby is still investing in these drugs!

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...on-drug-makers
    $$$

  24. #19224
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by heart cooks brain View Post
    will premiums for women go down?
    dumb
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  25. #19225
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    the entire issue is that religious idiots have a problem with contraceptives, not with sex. Viagra is a non-issue in this conversation.
    I just thought it was humorous in the sense that Viagra, which as you point out helps men have sex, is OK, but the women they have sex with, BIRTH CONTROL NOT OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinkey McDrinkerstein View Post
    Viagra could be used to help a man with erectile dysfunction to have sex and get his wife pregnant. Birth control prevents pregnancy.
    Viagra “could” be used for that but is probably used in majority by older men trying to get it on with older women or women they have NO intention of getting pregnant, just like birth control is probably used in majority by women of all ages who don’t want to get pregnant but “could” be used for a vast variety of other medical reasons.

    But yes I “get” why it’s pointless to point that out, again I just thought it was funny ironic.
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  26. #19226
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Valid points. I should have prefaced that I have seen that same juxtaposition a LOT in the past 2 years and i was voicing that frustration moreso than replying directly to you.
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  27. #19227
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    ditto!

    also, on another humorous note, I think the only guy that could honestly fight for the no birth control clause is the head of this household: http://www.duggarfamily.com/

    I highly doubt most of the men that spout the religious no birth control argument have only ever had sex with the exact intent to procreate (which I assume is their basic stance against birth control, somehow implying that sex without that intent to reproduce is wrong?).
    .................................................. ..............
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    I hardly think I'm an attention whore.
    I train birds of prey and am I licensed falconer

  28. #19228
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    pf delivering some top notch chain email-based satire.
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  29. #19229
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by psychic friend View Post
    I highly doubt most of the men that spout the religious no birth control argument have only ever had sex with the exact intent to procreate (which I assume is their basic stance against birth control, somehow implying that sex without that intent to reproduce is wrong?).
    Quote Originally Posted by canexplain View Post
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  30. #19230
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    Default Re: The Girls Only Thread



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