Stones - Glastonbury 2013 and a handful of shows in UK & USA

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

Had? or Held?

and were u including the floors above & below you, as well as the corresponding levels on the other side of the stage? there are clearly more than 50-100 in that picture, and it only shows one half of the setup

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Looks like 56. 4 people to a box, so more like 120-ish.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

they would make more than $5million in ticket sales alone for one date at Staples at regular Stones prices. and they could easily sell out multiple dates even with higher prices.

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Standard arena gross in 2005 was about $2 million. With the third arena show in NY not sold out and secondary market prices plummeting it looks like $500-800 ticket and $7.5 million per arena show isn't something that can be replicated too many times.

And barring any major disasters in the next few weeks they do plan on doing more shows next year.

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

Madonna has the highest world tour tickets around. Stones tickets averaged closer to $100 last tour and some market had slower sales due to touring so much so often.

Most Stones shows are 2 hours or a tiny bit less. Angel Stadium had 48,000 people in 2005.

Those "highest grossing tours" are done over 3 calendar years and have 7 month breaks in them. U2 has the biggest tour right now. Gaga and Madonna are both trying to get into the top 3 with their current tours.

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Where did u get the 2005 sales number? It was a obviously a sell-out and Angels stadium capacity for BASEBALL seating in 2005 was 45,050, but they had tens of thousands more on the floor of the stadium, and the small outcrop of outfield bleacher seats were the only thing closed off. I've heard 65,000+ is capacity for concerts .. here is what The Sun newspaper said: "A few $450 seats remain for Anaheim, but the Bowl is sold out, and brokers are asking $3,500 for top seats." As for the 'highest grossing tours' i clearly said several times "at the time", and maybe Madonna has highest ticket prices but that's because she does arenas not stadiums, so even with the highest prices she isn't highest grossing tour.

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Originally Posted by SlowMotionApocalypse

Looks like 56. 4 people to a box, so more like 120-ish.

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While i was never sure if there were people on the top floor, there were people on the bottom level at the show i attended, even if they can't be seen in that photo.. but okay, 150 people or so..4 to a box? first time i've ever seen any act with side-stage viewing have it filled so sparingly..

i'm not talking about the standard arena take, which includes small markets, mid-west, and multiple dates in cities closer together in the NE. I'm talking about Staples center, which has a large capacity for an arena. LA typically has 2nd highest US ticket prices after Las Vegas. I'm also talking about 2013 numbers, which for a 50th Anniversary Farewell Tour would bring in more $$ than a standard tour in 2005 dollars..

My statements aren't bearing on the booking of the Stones US tour, but only that is bad booking to forgo millions in extra revenue, just to play a festival in that market. Now if Coachella got them, and after it sold out, the Stones added weekday dates at Staples & Honda, mayyyyybe.... but traditionally, the stones don't add a ton of last minute dates. And it still goes back to the fact that there is nothing in it for them to forgo those shows just to play chella. Not to mention the waste of $5-8 million for GV to book them, when they're going to get an easy sell out with a typical chella lineup sans Stones. Why waste the cash?

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

Where did u get the 2005 sales number? It was a obviously a sell-out and Angels stadium capacity for BASEBALL seating in 2005 was 45,050, but they had tens of thousands more on the floor of the stadium, and the small outcrop of outfield bleacher seats were the only thing closed off. I've heard 65,000+ is capacity for concerts .. here is what The Sun newspaper said: "A few $450 seats remain for Anaheim, but the Bowl is sold out, and brokers are asking $3,500 for top seats." As for the 'highest grossing tours' i clearly said several times "at the time", and maybe Madonna has highest ticket prices but that's because she does arenas not stadiums, so even with the highest prices she isn't highest grossing tour.

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The stadium was reduced in size after the 1994 earthquake. With the floor mostly filled with fatsos they don't have 1980's concert capacity anymore.

And the show may have been reported as a sellout to Billboard but was by no means a tough ticket. I think there was about 50-52,000 at the 2002 show but I can't find that figure now.

16. Angel Stadium of Anaheim, Anaheim, Calif.
Nov. 4, 2005
$6,792,416
48,480 / 48,480
1 / 1
$450, $60

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

Where did u get the 2005 sales number? It was a obviously a sell-out and Angels stadium capacity for BASEBALL seating in 2005 was 45,050, but they had tens of thousands more on the floor of the stadium, and the small outcrop of outfield bleacher seats were the only thing closed off. I've heard 65,000+ is capacity for concerts .. here is what The Sun newspaper said: "A few $450 seats remain for Anaheim, but the Bowl is sold out, and brokers are asking $3,500 for top seats." As for the 'highest grossing tours' i clearly said several times "at the time", and maybe Madonna has highest ticket prices but that's because she does arenas not stadiums, so even with the highest prices she isn't highest grossing tour.

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U2 did 106,000 over 2 nights with 360 seating in 2011. The Stones average ticket price is crazy high at the Angel Stadium show but the Bigger Bang tour average was under $100 with nightly attendance averaging at 32,000.

November 4, 2005
Anaheim, CA
Angel Stadium Of Anaheim
GROSS: $6,792,416
ATTENDANCE: 48,480
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS: 1
Average Ticket Price: $140.11

I thought the Vertigo tour grossed more than it did, so the Bigger Bang tour was top dog from 2007-2011.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

While i was never sure if there were people on the top floor, there were people on the bottom level at the show i attended, even if they can't be seen in that photo.. but okay, 150 people or so..4 to a box? first time i've ever seen any act with side-stage viewing have it filled so sparingly..

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4 people to a box, it may look wide but it wasn't very deep, lots of lighting and product elements immedietly behind me. Could hear the hiss of the fuel lines when the flames shot out the top during Sympathy. Said we couldn't leave to go to the restroom during first 2 and last 3 songs due to pyro,

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i'm not talking about the standard arena take, which includes small markets, mid-west, and multiple dates in cities closer together in the NE. I'm talking about Staples center, which has a large capacity for an arena.

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Once you block out behind the stage and private boxes it's back down to about 14,000

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LA typically has 2nd highest US ticket prices after Las Vegas. I'm also talking about 2013 numbers, which for a 50th Anniversary Farewell Tour would bring in more $$ than a standard tour in 2005 dollars..

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They aren't ready to pull the farewell card yet. They might milk just LA one time at Brooklyn prices but they also just found out what the market can bear and it's not more than a handful of shows worldwide at those prices.

[qutoe]
My statements aren't bearing on the booking of the Stones US tour, but only that is bad booking to forgo millions in extra revenue, just to play a festival in that market. Now if Coachella got them, and after it sold out, the Stones added weekday dates at Staples & Honda, mayyyyybe.... but traditionally, the stones don't add a ton of last minute dates. [/quote]

They have the last few tours.

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And it still goes back to the fact that there is nothing in it for them to forgo those shows just to play chella. Not to mention the waste of $5-8 million for GV to book them, when they're going to get an easy sell out with a typical chella lineup sans Stones. Why waste the cash?

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It goes back to what I say about how they don't have to book any real headliners at all if the festival is going to sell out anyway.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

My statements aren't bearing on the booking of the Stones US tour, but only that is bad booking to forgo millions in extra revenue, just to play a festival in that market. Now if Coachella got them, and after it sold out, the Stones added weekday dates at Staples & Honda, mayyyyybe.... but traditionally, the stones don't add a ton of last minute dates. And it still goes back to the fact that there is nothing in it for them to forgo those shows just to play chella. Not to mention the waste of $5-8 million for GV to book them, when they're going to get an easy sell out with a typical chella lineup sans Stones. Why waste the cash?

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Why not announce them playing both Coachella and LA dates at the same time like they did with Leonard Cohen? Good way to shave a 1-2 million off their guarantee. In 2009 Springsteen did Glastonbury and a solo gig in Hyde Park the same weekend.

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Originally Posted by SlowMotionApocalypse

It goes back to what I say about how they don't have to book any real headliners at all if the festival is going to sell out anyway.

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Weak argument. I know this annoys some here, but I'm quite certain GV have several million locked up in hotel packages that could either make them lose bit of money or they get o make a couple million. Hotels cannot compete directly with GV so they sell blocks of rooms.

Also 1 weak lineup could mean a low turn out in 2014 or 2015 which could really mess up the festival. The Glastonbury year with Jay-Z took until the last minute to sell out which was unheard of. "traditional" music fans considered him a weak headliner as he hadn't proven himself at that level.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

maybe Madonna has highest ticket prices but that's because she does arenas not stadiums, so even with the highest prices she isn't highest grossing tour.

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Pretty sure her average stadium prices are higher than the Stones.

I also think the Stones can make in arenas than stadiums at this point.

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

Pretty sure her average stadium prices are higher than the Stones.

I also think the Stones can make in arenas than stadiums at this point.

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If that was true, she'd have made more money. She didn't. She also doesn't sell out stadiums in North America, just arenas.

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Originally Posted by SlowMotionApocalypse

The stadium was reduced in size after the 1994 earthquake. With the floor mostly filled with fatsos they don't have 1980's concert capacity anymore.

And the show may have been reported as a sellout to Billboard but was by no means a tough ticket. I think there was about 50-52,000 at the 2002 show but I can't find that figure now.

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the capacity figures i pulled were from 2005, it actually has an increased capacity now for 2012/2013.

$450 a seat is a tough ticket, no matter the definition. And while a few tickets were still available at the time of printing a day & a half before showtime, it said sold out on the electronic billboard when i arrived, and i saw no empty seats..

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

Weak argument. I know this annoys some here, but I'm quite certain GV have several million locked up in hotel packages that could either make them lose bit of money or they get o make a couple million. Hotels cannot compete directly with GV so they sell blocks of rooms.

Also 1 weak lineup could mean a low turn out in 2014 or 2015 which could really mess up the festival. The Glastonbury year with Jay-Z took until the last minute to sell out which was unheard of. "traditional" music fans considered him a weak headliner as he hadn't proven himself at that level.

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I disagree, Chella could sell out without headliners, and it would be a 'pure' coachella crowd, which would be nice.

'08 had Prince & Roger Waters, no sell out.
'09 had Paul McCartney & the Cure, no sell out.
'10 had Jay-Z (who hindered Glasto sales), Muse & Gorillaz...arguably the smallest headliners to date, sold out in 3 weeks before fest.
'11 had Kings of Leon, Arcade Fire, Kanye West...arguably even smaller headliners than year before, sold out in 3 weeks after onsale.
'12 had Black Keys (again) w/ Dr Dre & the band that does that 'Creep' song...sold out in 3 days
'13 no lineup yet, 1st weekend already sold out, 2nd weekend has some tickets left

i don't think headliners matter anymore. some that bought tickets will bitch and sell them (like this year), but there will be 1000 more waiting to buy that ticket. Coachella fans go for the eclectic undercard. Headliners bring in those people who have never been to chella before, and will prob never go again. the fans who never leave the main stage after sunset, and don't show up at the Polo until 4pm.

First weekend is not sold out yet.

If GV hadn't stopped the presale after seven days, is there any doubt in your mind that it would be?

I am not saying it wouldn't have, but the point is that weekend one passes will be available in January.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

$450 a seat is a tough ticket, no matter the definition. And while a few tickets were still available at the time of printing a day & a half before showtime, it said sold out on the electronic billboard when i arrived, and i saw no empty seats..

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I always thought tough ticket meant low availability, both in the secondary market and thru conventional means. I don't remember the SOLD OUT sign and I know people who got in for as low as $20.

Also that show was the Ameritrade company picnic and they bought up thousands of tickets. I don't have an exact figure but it could have in the tens of thousands.

only a few tickets remained, to me that speaks low availability. If u had friends that got $20 tickets, that's impressive, but as u said, it was an Ameritrade show, and those were probably extra comps that were set aside, despite the sell out. scalped tickets were going for far above ticket price online prior to the show.

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Originally Posted by GuyInTucson

I am not saying it wouldn't have, but the point is that weekend one passes will be available in January.

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Yes, for several minutes. Point taken.

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

"traditional" music fans considered him a weak headliner...

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"traditional" = no like the blax.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

only a few tickets remained, to me that speaks low availability. If u had friends that got $20 tickets, that's impressive, but as u said, it was an Ameritrade show, and those were probably extra comps that were set aside, despite the sell out. scalped tickets were going for far above ticket price online prior to the show.

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I saw the"sold out" Stones show in Vancouver in 2006 for $30 sitting in a $180 seat. It's easy for a sold out show to be an " easy" ticket out front, even without comps.

The last Boston and Chicago stadium shows by the Stones actually "stiffed" to a certain degree. 33k in Soldier field in the country's 4th largest city with Costello opening?

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

only a few tickets remained, to me that speaks low availability. If u had friends that got $20 tickets, that's impressive, but as u said, it was an Ameritrade show, and those were probably extra comps that were set aside, despite the sell out. scalped tickets were going for far above ticket price online prior to the show.

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Broker ads asking for $1,000 doesn't necessarily constitute "going for" though there was some profit to be made - I got a $120 Hollywood Bowl ticket for $52 off Ebay then resold it a few days later for $120.

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

I saw the"sold out" Stones show in Vancouver in 2006 for $30 sitting in a $180 seat. It's easy for a sold out show to be an " easy" ticket out front, even without comps.

The last Boston and Chicago stadium shows by the Stones actually "stiffed" to a certain degree. 33k in Soldier field in the country's 4th largest city with Costello opening?

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Tickets were expensive but aside from the initial rush and a few select dates (Madison Square Garden) there were plenty of tickets to go around. They milked that one hard. I think we will see festival dates unless the band really does want to play just 6 or 8 shows worldwide which I suppose is possible. But there are offers on the table.

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Originally Posted by SlowMotionApocalypse

Tickets were expensive but aside from the initial rush and a few select dates (Madison Square Garden) there were plenty of tickets to go around. They milked that one hard. I think we will see festival dates unless the band really does want to play just 6 or 8 shows worldwide which I suppose is possible. But there are offers on the table

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But having other shows in SoCal could be preferable instead of original Stones fans dealing with the Chella marathon experience. Bonnaroo could be health hazard for some of those fans if they attend without pre cautions.

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Originally Posted by mrhand

"traditional" = no like the blax.

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I laughed. Curtis Mayfield was a Glasto headliner 30 years ago, Skunk Anansie a decade ago and and they've had lots of subs. Rap/hip hop was an unproven headliner as a musical genre in 2008.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

I disagree, Chella could sell out without headliners, and it would be a 'pure' coachella crowd, which would be nice.

'08 had Prince & Roger Waters, no sell out.
'09 had Paul McCartney & the Cure, no sell out.
'10 had Jay-Z (who hindered Glasto sales), Muse & Gorillaz...arguably the smallest headliners to date, sold out in 3 weeks before fest.
'11 had Kings of Leon, Arcade Fire, Kanye West...arguably even smaller headliners than year before, sold out in 3 weeks after onsale.
'12 had Black Keys (again) w/ Dr Dre & the band that does that 'Creep' song...sold out in 3 days
'13 no lineup yet, 1st weekend already sold out, 2nd weekend has some tickets left

i don't think headliners matter anymore. some that bought tickets will bitch and sell them (like this year), but there will be 1000 more waiting to buy that ticket. Coachella fans go for the eclectic undercard. Headliners bring in those people who have never been to chella before, and will prob never go again. the fans who never leave the main stage after sunset, and don't show up at the Polo until 4pm.

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I recall the RATM and McCartney nights having single day tickets being "sold out". Maybe Prince and Madonna too.

2013 still has tickets to be sold in January plus a ton of hotel packages. 2012 took MONTHS for hotel pages to sell, even though they were only slightly more expensive than VIP wristbands that now sell out within the day.

Wristbands have been cheap out front except 2010 and both Dre gigs.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

If that was true, she'd have made more money. She didn't. She also doesn't sell out stadiums in North America, just arenas.

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You said the Stones had the highest average ticket price for major acts that do world tours. Not true.

You said that Stones have higher average prices than when Madonna plays stadiums. Also not true.

Nobody will deny that Madge can only do US stadiums in a number of markets that can be counted on one hand. Internationally the comparison gets a lot more interesting. I don't think Madonna has ever "tanked" in a US stadium, though a couple shows really needed strong walk ups like Houston and Detroit. Stones STRUGGLED the last time through Boston/Chicago stadia.

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

I saw the"sold out" Stones show in Vancouver in 2006 for $30 sitting in a $180 seat. It's easy for a sold out show to be an " easy" ticket out front, even without comps.

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then every show ever qualifies. the number of shows i've gone to that a ticket couldn't be scored in some matter is less than three. taking the chance that you can get tickets on ebay or from a scalper doesn't mean that tickets are 'easy' to come by. i've had more than a few scalped tickets be voids.

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

I recall the RATM and McCartney nights having single day tickets being "sold out". Maybe Prince and Madonna too.

2013 still has tickets to be sold in January plus a ton of hotel packages. 2012 took MONTHS for hotel pages to sell, even though they were only slightly more expensive than VIP wristbands that now sell out within the day.

Wristbands have been cheap out front except 2010 and both Dre gigs.

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'07 sold out weeks in advance, Madonna was '06 (and it did not sell out)..but i wasn't talking about either of those years anyway... tickets were available at the door in '08 for Prince, i bought one. Because 2 of the 3 days I bought tickets for from a scalper at the polo..only Friday was valid. I do not believe single day tickets were sold out for McCartney, there were less people there on friday than on saturday that year.

and the reason the hotel packages take longer to sell out is because they're overpriced and most fans camp. and of course VIP tickets are going to sell quicker than GA w/ a hotel package, even if they are similarly priced. the hotel packages are a way for GV to make extra cash, and quiet the community by guaranteeing fully-booked rooms.

"Wristbands have been cheap out front except 2010 and both Dre gigs."
So they were cheap once, in 2011?

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

You said the Stones had the highest average ticket price for major acts that do world tours. Not true.

You said that Stones have higher average prices than when Madonna plays stadiums. Also not true.

Nobody will deny that Madge can only do US stadiums in a number of markets that can be counted on one hand. Internationally the comparison gets a lot more interesting. I don't think Madonna has ever "tanked" in a US stadium, though a couple shows really needed strong walk ups like Houston and Detroit. Stones STRUGGLED the last time through Boston/Chicago stadia.

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I didn't say either of those things. I said the Stones made more per tour, not per show, or per ticket. They have the record for highest-grossing tour of all-time. They also have the record for highest-grossing North American tour, breaking the previous record set by themselves.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

I didn't say either of those things. I said the Stones made more per tour, not per show, or per ticket. They have the record for highest-grossing tour of all-time. They also have the record for highest-grossing North American tour, breaking the previous record set by themselves.

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U2 360 tour has top all time since early 2011.

FWIW, Stones did an average $3.8m on the last tour while Madonna did $4.7. But apparently her number don't count because she has 3 young kids and doesn't space out tours over 3 calendar years.

Madonna's last completed tour had 88 dates while Stones did 144. Live Nation were begging her to do more.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

and the reason the hotel packages take longer to sell out is because they're overpriced and most fans camp. and of course VIP tickets are going to sell quicker than GA w/ a hotel package, even if they are similarly priced. the hotel packages are a way for GV to make extra cash, and quiet the community by guaranteeing fully-booked rooms.

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With GV saying during the presage that for wristbands "no more remaining" and camping was "sold out", doesn't that mean that anyone buying wristbands in January will be forced to stay at a hotel or know a friends with camping?

I thought all rooms were sold out the past couple years whether or not GV bought up packages?

Is there really 9,000 people each weekend that like paying for minimal VIP perks rather than put that money towards a room?

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Originally Posted by Bumblebee

U2 360 tour has top all time since early 2011.

FWIW, Stones did an average $3.8m on the last tour while Madonna did $4.7. But apparently her number don't count because she has 3 young kids and doesn't space out tours over 3 calendar years.

Madonna's last completed tour had 88 dates while Stones did 144. Live Nation were begging her to do more.

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Yes, U2 finally broke the Stones record in 2011, also because the Stones hadn't toured since 2007. In '05/'06 the Stones & U2 toured at the same time (vertigo tour). The Stones made more, breaking their own previous record. We will see if the Stones do better or worse than the 360 Tour.

As for Madonna, spacing out tour dates with 3 young kids would make more sense, but whatever. She was busy making horrid movies also.

Wow. The promoter who makes a cut of every show, wanted her to do more?? Shocking. But then again, I imagine Live Nation wants every act they want to book, to book more dates, that's their job. I'm sure her hair stylist wants her to get a haircut too. And i'm sure that whoever booked the Stones tour, would have loved more dates.

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Originally Posted by nbvcide

then every show ever qualifies. the number of shows i've gone to that a ticket couldn't be scored in some matter is less than three. taking the chance that you can get tickets on ebay or from a scalper doesn't mean that tickets are 'easy' to come by. i've had more than a few scalped tickets be voids.

'07 sold out weeks in advance, Madonna was '06 (and it did not sell out)..but i wasn't talking about either of those years anyway... tickets were available at the door in '08 for Prince, i bought one. Because 2 of the 3 days I bought tickets for from a scalper at the polo..only Friday was valid. I do not believe single day tickets were sold out for McCartney, there were less people there on friday than on saturday that year.

"Wristbands have been cheap out front except 2010 and both Dre gigs."
So they were cheap once, in 2011?

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There was a claim that a Stones Anaheim show was sold out AND a tough ticket when only the former was true.

I remember around 3pm fans could no longer buy McCartney day single tickets. I'm unclear if it was a Coachella rule or if it the single day ticket allotment was fulfilled. Only full passes were available after 3.

I'm saying 2010 was the only year where wristbands went for a premium outside the festival grounds. People were paying $200 just for the DRE performance from those exiting early to go home to work the next day.