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RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:13 PM
Yeah I'm making a whole thread just for this album. Fuck the overall Fiona thread, I want to talk about this and this specifically.

It's hard for me to explain how much I love this woman. She's easily the best female vocalist of our generation and her lyrical talents are equaled only by the true greats of all time. As a thoroughly "male" personality, there's something that always draws me in about great female songstresses almost more than any man can in that I'm more impressed by an artist who can make me identify with a part of the human condition that I feel so inherently distant from. When I listen to her words and the passion with which she sings them it makes me feel like I know the plight of every crazy woman I've ever known and loved.

What are everyone's favorites? Thus far, Jonathan, Left Alone, Werewolf, Periphery and Anything We Want are just killing me. Hot Knife to me feels like her just demonstrating to the world what a fucking genius of harmonies and lyrics and singing she is. Can't wait to see if she tries to pull it off live and what it would sound like.

Somewhat Damaged
06-17-2012, 08:15 PM
I've only listened to a few tracks on the NPR stream so I won't be able to opine until Tuesday. Do you have tickets to see her on this tour?

RedHotSgtPeppers
06-17-2012, 08:18 PM
http://www.coachella.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-Music-Lounge

algunz
06-17-2012, 08:21 PM
I really like Left Alone, but I've only listened to the song once.

GolfWang
06-17-2012, 08:22 PM
Thread is necessary. Fiona is a straight up soul singer in my eyes and probably the best songwriter around right now. I think "Werewolf" is my favorite, with "Hot Knife" and "Every Single Night" right behind it. There aren't any bad songs on here.

ods..
06-17-2012, 08:24 PM
I love it so much. Her voice sound stronger than ever and the songs are complex and mysterious... I love the sparse percussion and piano melodies interracting with Fiona's voice... Favorite songs have to be Valentine, Jonathan, and Left Alone, but I've found myself muttering wow to nearly every song on the record. Easily could be my top record of the year when everything is said and done.

Though I disagree with her being the "best female vocalist of our generation" she is definitely in the running. Obviously this isn't a thread for that discussion.

If Coachella doesn't book Fiona this year they are seriously fucking up. I need her to have Outdoor sunset. Needs to happen.

ods..
06-17-2012, 08:24 PM
Thread is necessary.


There aren't any bad songs on here.

Yes.

malcolmjamalawesome
06-17-2012, 08:25 PM
In the Misc Lounge? I recommend The True Death.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Adding youtubes and my favorite lyrical excerpts:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABtDxEQLURU

Jonathan


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBrDONDeQIM

Left Alone--a serious masterpiece for her particular niche.


And now i'm hard, too hard to know
I don't cry when i'm sad anymore, no no
Tears calcify in my tummmy
Fears go inside the bottle
How can i ask anyone to love me
When all i do is beg to be left alone

Oh and i tried to love
And i can love the same man and the same bed and the same city
But not in the same room it's a pity but
Oh
It never bothered me before
Not til this guy
What a guy
Oh god what a good guy
And i can't even enjoy him
Cause i'm hard, too hard to know
Oh i don't cry when i'm sad anymore, no no
Tears calcify in my tummy
Fears go inside the bottle
How can i ask anyone to love me
When all i do is beg to be left
When all i do is beg to be left
When all i do is beg to be left
Alone

I actually originally heard the lyric as "how can I expect anyone to love me when I all do is beg to be loved," which I actually think is a better line but what can you do. The things she does with her voice on the "tears calcify" part is just gorgeous.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fby632bPn0E

Werewolf--wow does this shit ever remind me of a lot of the carnage I've left in my wake unintentionally with women. One of her best choruses ever:


But you were such a super guy til the second you get a whiff of me
We are like a wishing well and a bolt of electricity
But we can still support each other
All we got to do is avoid each other
Nothing wrong when a song ends in the minor key
Nothing wrong when a song ends in the minor key


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfXvIs9bojM

Anything We Want--this whole song makes me think of being a teenager again when the cute shit you do trying to get laid is still sweet and optimistic and it's all nice memories of going pool hopping and shit like that. Just reposting the lyrics doesn't really do justice to how well they play out in her intonations through the course of the song:


Let's pretend we're 8 years old playin' hookey
I'll draw on the wall and you can play UFC rookie
Then we'll grow up and take our clothes off
And you remind me that I wanted you to kiss me
When we find some time alone

And then we can do anything we want
And then we can do anything we want
And then we can do anything we want
And then we can do anything we want

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:27 PM
In the Misc Lounge? I recommend The True Death.

I refused to post anywhere but the Misc Lounge during the newb invasion of 2008 and I'm keeping it that way.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:27 PM
I've only listened to a few tracks on the NPR stream so I won't be able to opine until Tuesday. Do you have tickets to see her on this tour?

Yeah, Palladium. Can't wait, though I wish it was The Wiltern or somewhere else with seats. Saw her at Largo recently and I was amazed how cheerful she seemed.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtpTc6S01fs

Good call on Valentine, I'd forgotten about it. So lovely. Possibly her best lyric work in a classical sense. Right up there with Etta, Billie, any black chick ever.


You didn't see my valentine
I sent it via pantomime
While you were watching someone else
I stared at you and cut myself

Its all ill do cause i'm not free
A fugitive too dull too flee
I'm amorous but out of reach
A still life drawing of a peach

I'm a tulip in a cup
I stand no chance of growing up
I've made my peace i'm dead i'm done
I watched you live to have my fun

I root for you, i love you
you you you you

I made it to a dinner date
My teardrops seasoned every plate
I tried to dance but lost my nerve
I cramped up in the learning curve

I'm a tulip in a cup
I stand no chance of growing up
I'm resigned to sail on through
In the wake of tales of you

I root for you, i love you
you you you you

Miroir Noir
06-17-2012, 08:33 PM
P4K score: over/under 9.0? For better or (likely) worse, it will drive a lot of commentary on this album. We'll know in about a half hour.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:39 PM
Pitchfork will give it like a 7.2 I guess. I fucking hate Pitchfork. Far as I'm concerned, it's already album of the year.

Miroir Noir
06-17-2012, 08:45 PM
I actually think they're gonna come in big on this, the ultimate indie reclaimation project. And it will bring in an audience that otherwise wouldn't pay attention to this release.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:50 PM
You're actually counting on Pitchfork to give a good review to an actually good album?

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:51 PM
They only gave When The Pawn an 8 and the Jon Brion version of Extraordinary a 7.8, which should each be at least a point higher.

chairmenmeow47
06-17-2012, 08:52 PM
i love this album as well. she's matured a lot since when the pawn. her softest voice is strong. she glides effortly through the notes. i don't know all the song names yet, but i'm a fan. i'm sick of seeing comments about her wweight. she's always been skinny, shut the fuck up and/let the beautiful bitch sing.

TomAz
06-17-2012, 08:57 PM
Right up there with Etta, Billie, any black chick ever.

I would agree with this if Etta James ever had a lyric as fucking stupid as "I'm amorous but out of reach".

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 08:59 PM
Etta didn't really strive for any interesting wordplay in her lyrics either though. It was basically just all about love, fairly monosyllabic, etc. Also I don't see what's so stupid about that lyrics. It's a nice dichotomy. I want to kiss you but don't fucking touch me. That's kinda the essence of what makes Fiona so good--she encapsulates that.

Miroir Noir
06-17-2012, 09:03 PM
9.0 exactly. (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/16732-the-idler-wheel-is-wiser-than-the-driver-of-the-screw-and-whipping-cords-will-serve-you-more-than-ropes-will-ever-do/)

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 09:07 PM
Huh, no shit. Well they need to go back and fix those other ratings then, but still glad to see it. I wonder if there was just so many good tunes back around When The Pawn that it was easier to ignore what a masterpiece it is.

Miroir Noir
06-17-2012, 09:08 PM
They're stealing your material, Randy:


"Left Alone" is nothing short of a vocal masterclass. It has the singer going from the verses' rap-like cadence to the hook's curlicue jazz stylings to the operatic long notes of the bridge-- notes that slowly curdle underneath their own exasperated weariness. This makes sense considering Apple is a child of Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, and hip-hop, a songwriter who's spiking the Great American Songbook with today's mirror-upon-mirror confessionalism. She's able to convey more with a quick, original turn of phrase-- "my woes are granular," for one-- or an in-the-moment scrunch of the face than many pop stars are able to muster with 100-foot screens and volcano pyrotechnics.

algunz
06-17-2012, 09:12 PM
I ran out of white dove feathers
To soak up the hot piss that comes through your mouth
Every time you address me

chairmenmeow47
06-17-2012, 09:13 PM
didn't etta mostly sing other people's music? it seems like a lot of her songs are credited to other writers and she thanks them during her sets.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 09:13 PM
They've all always been ripping me off.

RotationSlimWang
06-17-2012, 09:13 PM
didn't etta mostly sing other people's music? it seems like a lot of her songs are credited to other writers and she thanks them during her sets.

Another good point.

FEELS
06-17-2012, 11:33 PM
Yes, this album is amazing. I've only listened to it twice through on the stream so I haven't had the chance to soak it all in yet..but i can't wait to do so on Tuesday. Buying this is a must.

FEELS
06-17-2012, 11:39 PM
Also, no love for Daredevil? One of the stand-out tracks imo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc-ZZQ48tus

"Say I'm an airplane and the gashes I got from my heartbreak
Make the slots and the flaps upon my wings, and i use 'em to give me lift"

And the vocals at 1:45 are fucking incredible

ods..
06-17-2012, 11:39 PM
9.0 exactly. (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/16732-the-idler-wheel-is-wiser-than-the-driver-of-the-screw-and-whipping-cords-will-serve-you-more-than-ropes-will-ever-do/)

Well, will you look at that. Nice one, Miroir

bmack86
06-18-2012, 12:03 AM
I've been trying to avoid the new stuff like the plague until the whole album came out. Looks like it's time to dive in.

And I actually bet that people of the Pitchfork persuasion avoided When the Pawn... because Tidal had Criminal as such a big hit, and they lumped her in with Jewel, Natalia Imbruglia and all those other post-Alanis dark/tender songwriters. Which was completely idiotic of them, as both When the Pawn... and Extraordinary Machine are stunningly well made albums.

RageAgainstTheAoki
06-18-2012, 12:51 AM
After giving the album a good dozen or so spins in the last week it's finally grown on me. The first few times I heard it the only tracks that stayed with me were Every Single Night, Anything We Want and Hot Knife. It simply took more listens for the rest of the album's charms to get under my skin. I think the starkness of the arrangements tricked me into perceiving the album as one monolithic block of sameness, but there is so much going on in these fragile little arrangements. Every Single Night has done some kind of black magic on me. The last 6 days straight I've woken up with strains of "I just want to feeeeeeel everything..." echoing in my head. I can't wait to hear all of these songs live.

I agree with the OP that it would be a treat to hear her pull off 'Hot Knife' live, but she tends to have minimal to no background vocals live. I can't see that one working without background vocals. Maybe she'll bring her sis with her.

roberto73
06-18-2012, 02:57 AM
The first few times I heard it the only tracks that stayed with me were Every Single Night, Anything We Want and Hot Knife. It simply took more listens for the rest of the album's charms to get under my skin. I think the starkness of the arrangements tricked me into perceiving the album as one monolithic block of sameness, but there is so much going on in these fragile little arrangements.

Yeah, I realize I need to give it at least a few more listens. Played it once yesterday and was actively annoyed with it. As someone who adores her first three albums, this reaction has to be a fluke.

zircona1
06-18-2012, 07:03 AM
I preordered the deluxe edition of the album.

(LOL at still buying music, on CD)

nathanfairchild
06-18-2012, 07:59 AM
is this on spotify yet? i can't use it at work.

TomAz
06-18-2012, 08:56 AM
Etta didn't really strive for any interesting wordplay in her lyrics either though. It was basically just all about love, fairly monosyllabic, etc. Also I don't see what's so stupid about that lyrics. It's a nice dichotomy. I want to kiss you but don't fucking touch me. That's kinda the essence of what makes Fiona so good--she encapsulates that.

What's stupid is that it doesn't make any sense. "I want to kiss you but don't fucking touch me"? Who says that sort of thing? In what context?

Also why should I give a shit about some prima donna rock star complaining/confessing/bragging that she is 'out of reach'?

Also 'amorous' is just a clumsy word to use when talking about yourself. "I want to kiss you but don't touch me" would be a better lyric.

I know it's just one line but it's poorly crafted IMO.

RotationSlimWang
06-18-2012, 09:02 AM
What's stupid is that it doesn't make any sense. "I want to kiss you but don't fucking touch me"? Who says that sort of thing? In what context?

Also why should I give a shit about some prima donna rock star complaining/confessing/bragging that she is 'out of reach'?

Also 'amorous' is just a clumsy word to use when talking about yourself. "I want to kiss you but don't touch me" would be a better lyric.

I know it's just one line but it's poorly crafted IMO.

Who says that sort of thing? Emotionally damaged people, dipshit. And to dismiss her feelings because she's a "prima donna rock star" is such bullshit. Why don't we just write off every sentiment of loneliness that any famous artist has ever made on the same grounds? She can't be dysfunctional because she's a rock star?

RotationSlimWang
06-18-2012, 09:04 AM
Seriously Tom, I expect better of you than that.

lt.roast.a.botch
06-18-2012, 10:07 AM
a lot of emotions in this thread

TomAz
06-18-2012, 10:14 AM
Who says that sort of thing? Emotionally damaged people, dipshit. And to dismiss her feelings because she's a "prima donna rock star" is such bullshit. Why don't we just write off every sentiment of loneliness that any famous artist has ever made on the same grounds? She can't be dysfunctional because she's a rock star?

Look at how upset you're getting!

It's a bad lyric. Even good songwriters get lazy sometimes. Sorry if that offends you.

faxman75
06-18-2012, 10:15 AM
There aren't many albums I love on first listen but after hearing it on NPRs first listen, I do. I pre ordered the vinyl which arrives tomorrow and I can't wait to hear it again. She just added more tour dates so I will see her in Mesa on 9/18. She sings with so much anxiety and passion.

malcolmjamalawesome
06-18-2012, 10:22 AM
I wish there was a way for me to know whether the statements in this thread were opinions or facts.

PotVsKtl
06-18-2012, 10:44 AM
What's stupid is that it doesn't make any sense. "I want to kiss you but don't fucking touch me"? Who says that sort of thing? In what context?

Also why should I give a shit about some prima donna rock star complaining/confessing/bragging that she is 'out of reach'?
.

Your opinions are bad and you should feel bad.

schoolofruckus
06-18-2012, 10:56 AM
What's stupid is that it doesn't make any sense. "I want to kiss you but don't fucking touch me"? Who says that sort of thing? In what context?

7610

PotVsKtl
06-18-2012, 11:07 AM
There is a faceplate all brown and red that stretches across my mouth
It's worn for protection, nobody gets in and nobody gets out
I used to look myself in the mirror at the end of every day
But I took the one thing that made me beautiful and threw it away


What's this? Self-conscious self-loathing? Self-destructive self-defeating behavior? From a rock star?

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
06-18-2012, 11:22 AM
7610

UGH

bmack86
06-18-2012, 11:55 AM
What's this? Self-conscious self-loathing? Self-destructive self-defeating behavior? From a rock star?

That's clearly introspective self-excoriation. Get your personal discovery/destruction terms right, vsKtl.

PotVsKtl
06-18-2012, 12:04 PM
A still-life drawing of a peach.

Miroir Noir
06-18-2012, 12:59 PM
And I actually bet that people of the Pitchfork persuasion avoided When the Pawn... because Tidal had Criminal as such a big hit, and they lumped her in with Jewel, Natalia Imbruglia and all those other post-Alanis dark/tender songwriters. Which was completely idiotic of them, as both When the Pawn... and Extraordinary Machine are stunningly well made albums.

Well this sort of thing didn't help matters:

http://img2-2.timeinc.net/ew/covergallery/img/1997/jul111997_387_lg.jpg

When the Pawn . . . is an interesting case in terms of music consumerism. It was an album that didn't have an audience in its day, outside her very substantial fanbase. It still went plat (bet you can find a used cd for under $2 at your local record store), but those were the dying days of people still buying albums right before Napster's ascendancy, and total sales were way down from Tidal (When the Pawn . . . only peaked at number 13 on the Billboard 200). The mainstream had moved on to bubblegum (or Durst-core idiot rock) in a big way in 1999, and indie audiences probably still saw her as some sort of goofy curio at that point (MTV meltdowns, that unwieldy and instantly-mockable album title, etc.). I remember "Fast As You Can" coming out, mostly for PTA's video, but didn't really register the album myself until two or three years later when a friend raved and raved about it. Blown away. Absolutely blown away by how excellent it was. I have a feeling that a lot of people came to it late, like I did.

icedKeg
06-18-2012, 06:18 PM
Yeah, I realize I need to give it at least a few more listens. Played it once yesterday and was actively annoyed with it. As someone who adores her first three albums, this reaction has to be a fluke.

same, exactly. will listen to it again under different circumstances the next couple times.

EDIT: also, i posted this in the other fiona apple thread (didn't realize there was this one now), but she'll be on jimmy fallon tonight.

Mugwog
06-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Regarding Pitchfork: I rarely visit that site and somehow I ended up there in the middle of the night and it seemed 30-40% masturbatory Radiohead news. All sources for music lose their credibility for music eventually.

Regarding this album: I love it. I've been a big fan of Fiona since Tidal, and she definitely continues to grow with her material. She continues to speak her mind, even if it may be a bit coarse to some ears. I can only imagine her to keep on making amazing music throughout our life times. One of my bucket list performers.

icedKeg
06-18-2012, 10:55 PM
http://consequenceofsound.net/2012/06/video-fiona-apple-on-jimmy-fallon/

Holy shit, the Anything We Want performance gave me chills. Just perfect.

RotationSlimWang
06-18-2012, 11:22 PM
Look at how upset you're getting!

It's a bad lyric. Even good songwriters get lazy sometimes. Sorry if that offends you.

Calling it a bad lyric is one thing. Dismissing it because she's not entitled to feeling a certain way because she's a "prima donna rock star" is however not fucking allowed when you're talking about someone who's clearly demonstrated her talents and capabilities for expressing heart-rending contradictions inherent in the nature of humanity. It might not be a great lyric in your estimation, but it yearns to express something a little more intricate and nuanced than "I want a sunday kind of love," even though that message might be more concise and therefore easy to digest.

RageAgainstTheAoki
06-18-2012, 11:41 PM
Her lyrics can be a bit twee and overpacked at times, but for the most part I think their messiness matches the messiness of the songs' emotional content. That being said, I think she's at her most effective as a lyricist when she pulls back a little and gives the song a little more room to breathe. 'Anything We Want' is a lovely recent example of her doing just that. I still think 'I Know' is her best song; especially when it comes to lyrics. The lyrics are simple, elegantly constructed, completely unforced and just perfectly married with the arrangement.

Those Fallon performances were wonderful. Wonder why she wasn't performing with her band. Still, The Roots did a great job backing her.

RotationSlimWang
06-18-2012, 11:52 PM
... twee? What the fuck is "twee" and how in the holy shit does it possibly apply to Fiona Apple?

ods..
06-19-2012, 12:49 AM
DAMNNN that Fallon performance was amazing. She's so hot...

buddy
06-19-2012, 01:20 AM
Holy shit, the Anything We Want performance gave me chills. Just perfect.


DAMNNN that Fallon performance was amazing.

agreed, the roots did a fantastic job backing her up.

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 01:26 AM
God, when she smiles it just fucking kills me. The UFC rookie line I find particularly adorable in her delivery.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_UOm7ytJxI

FEELS
06-19-2012, 05:04 AM
so great

TomAz
06-19-2012, 11:14 AM
it yearns to express something a little more intricate and nuanced

quoted for posterity.


anyway I didn't 'dismiss' it. I asked why I should give a shit about it.

sbessiso
06-19-2012, 11:28 AM
oh man, downloading now.

and it still makes me laugh how much people jock on pitchforks nuts. WHO FUCKING CARES

chairmenmeow47
06-19-2012, 11:35 AM
i just realized i got etta james and etta fitzgerald confused in my earlier lyric comment. though a lot of etta james music doesn't come off as written by her. either way, i will not stand for any hatred of "sunday kind of love" in this thread. music is not all about lyrics. it's about expression too.

still <3 fiona. i'm debating walking to the other building to get my ipod charger so i can listen while i flowchart this afternoon :)

Mr. Fuzz
06-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I haven't heard the new album but I noticed that she added a Vegas date that I will be attending. We've seen her twice. Once at the HOB on her last album's tour. And the other time at Vegoose, during the sunset slot.

Mr. Fuzz
06-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Both times were magical, btw.

Alchemy
06-19-2012, 12:34 PM
When the Pawn... has been one of the best albums -- if not the very best album -- in my life, since it came out. I was about 12 years old. I had a cousin with good taste in music and she sent that album my way...

Extraordinary Machine did not have as much of an impact on me. That was the year when I really got into music (it was when I went to my first Coachella). I mean, I like the album, but I don't return to it too often. I also don't return to Tidal very much. At least, I don't go to those albums like I do to When the Pawn..., which is sort of like my "palette cleanser."

I've listened to The Idler Wheel... a couple times now. I listened to "Every Single Night" about 50 times before that. I specifically listened to the album for my second time yesterday, out of outdoor speakers, while sitting in a swimming pool. I put it back-to-back with When the Pawn... and listened to both of them all the way through. The new album definitely has a bigger grasp on me than Extraordinary Machine. It seemed to contrast a lot against When the Pawn.... I can't find the word I want to use, whether the music is more "active," "bright," or "sharp." I don't mean in a lyrical sense. It is just that when I think of When the Pawn... -- and this is probably from personal experience -- I get a feeling like it is winter or autumn (I mean that literally; I don't mean sadness). The Idler Wheel... doesn't feel like spring or summer, though it is summer, but it does seem to exist opposite of When the Pawn... in a strange way that I can't quite wrap my mind around.

Anyway, the thing I'm trying to get at is this: I thought that I disliked Extraordinary Machine because it was not like When the Pawn..., yet The Idler Wheel... is also not like When the Pawn..., and I love it, and as I was listening to it, I felt that it was better that she didn't make another When the Pawn....

chairmenmeow47
06-19-2012, 01:14 PM
i'm always flabbergasted that tidal is not people's favourite album of hers and that i'm usually in the minority in that when the pawn is my least favourite of hers. but after talking about this with randy last night, i realized that it's because tidal came out when i was in high school. i was raped. fiona was raped. and tidal sounds like an expression of a desperate teenager, not in a bad way, but of course that's why it resonated with me so much. plus i saw fiona apple at the lillith fair in 1997 so there wasn't anything else in which to compare the album to. still though, songs like carrion deserve a lot more respect, people!

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
06-19-2012, 01:15 PM
I had no idea people were this interested in Fiona Apple.

Mr. Fuzz
06-19-2012, 01:23 PM
It's time to get with it, Drinkey.

Mr. Fuzz
06-19-2012, 01:24 PM
i'm always flabbergasted that tidal is not people's favourite album of hers and that i'm usually in the minority in that when the pawn is my least favourite of hers. but after talking about this with randy last night, i realized that it's because tidal came out when i was in high school. i was raped. fiona was raped. and tidal sounds like an expression of a desperate teenager, not in a bad way, but of course that's why it resonated with me so much. plus i saw fiona apple at the lillith fair in 1997 so there wasn't anything else in which to compare the album to. still though, songs like carrion deserve a lot more respect, people!

Tidal is her best album.

casey
06-19-2012, 02:14 PM
I love Tidal, but When The Pawn... is definitely my favorite. The Fallon performance was so great. I've yet to see Fiona but she is very high on my wishlist.

chairmenmeow47
06-19-2012, 02:24 PM
oh man, downloading now.

and it still makes me laugh how much people jock on pitchforks nuts. WHO FUCKING CARES

oh, and i meant to wholeheartedly agree with this. i really don't ever have the desire to read someone describe art to me, be it music or film. a quick review of what it is is ok, but i don't want your fucking opinion. it always comes across lame.

Miroir Noir
06-19-2012, 02:32 PM
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Aristotle.

Miroir Noir
06-19-2012, 02:37 PM
Then again, I am the kind of person whose idea of a good time includes reading Pauline Kael reviews from the '70s.

Starraven
06-19-2012, 02:43 PM
i'm always flabbergasted that tidal is not people's favourite album of hers and that i'm usually in the minority in that when the pawn is my least favourite of hers.

She has another album besides Tidal? D;

But really, that's pretty much the only one I can listen to all the way through and say "hey... this is a good album"
Only song I liked as much as the songs in Tidal was this one

u_z58EZdsHE

Mugwog
06-19-2012, 04:46 PM
Extraordinary Machine did not have as much of an impact on me. That was the year when I really got into music (it was when I went to my first Coachella). I mean, I like the album, but I don't return to it too often. I also don't return to Tidal very much. At least, I don't go to those albums like I do to When the Pawn..., which is sort of like my "palette cleanser."


May I ask if you listened to the official release of Extraordinary Machine or was it the leaked release? The two albums are completely different and the leaked one (non official release) I feel is the proper version. You could easily put all the tracks from When The Pawn..., Extraordinary Machine and The Idler Wheel.... together on a shuffle and I feel you wouldn't miss a beat as they all fit together.

If you don't have this album, I'll definitely surface a copy. It is a wonderful piece of work that all should listen to (Extraordinary Machine - leak version)

kitt kat
06-19-2012, 04:51 PM
I had no idea people were this interested in Fiona Apple.

Ditto.


And maybe it's because I never was exposed to her during the "Criminal" explosion...but I don't really "get" it. I tried listening to the new album today and it just seemed cerebral to be cerebral and wasn't an enjoyable listening experience.

I prefer Joanna Newsom, I suppose. Different strokes for different folks. I think Fiona Apple is definitely an interesting individual and I respect her as an artist/woman but yeah, the music doesn't do it for me. (I think it gives me too many flashbacks to my emotional teenage piano songwriting days, which I don't think very highly of.)

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 05:01 PM
I can only stand the first five tracks of Tidal. Dunno why, the rest of the album is just too depressing. Not depressing in Fiona's usual way, where she offsets her feelings of suffering by simultaneously copping to deserving it for various reasons, but just straight depressing. Just doesn't do it for me as much.

If When The Pawn is her Sgt. Pepper's (massive arrangement, superb production, sounds like a full orchestra and then some was brought in to create the soundscapes at play) then Idler Wheel is her White Album--stripped down, more pure, just her voice, her piano, and percussion. I'm a little annoyed that I didn't put my finger on why it sounded so different to me until Pitchfork mentioned that aspect but that's definitely it. Her work with Jon Brion was spectacular, but it did make it a little difficult to say that it was HER making it so amazing when there were 80 instruments brilliantly arranged around her. By taking all that shit out it's resulted in an end product that technically isn't quite as remarkable of an album but really shows off just how insanely talented she is all by her lonesome.

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 05:09 PM
quoted for posterity.


anyway I didn't 'dismiss' it. I asked why I should give a shit about it.

Um... why should you give a shit... I dunno, because the song is expressing something markedly more self-aware than 99 percent of the bullshit out there? That loneliness inherently makes one crave to be loved but when you've spent a life mired in your loneliness it makes intimacy feel claustrophobic? Is that really a sentiment so uninteresting to your emotional quotient?

Alchemy
06-19-2012, 05:30 PM
May I ask if you listened to the official release of Extraordinary Machine or was it the leaked release? The two albums are completely different and the leaked one (non official release) I feel is the proper version. You could easily put all the tracks from When The Pawn..., Extraordinary Machine and The Idler Wheel.... together on a shuffle and I feel you wouldn't miss a beat as they all fit together.

If you don't have this album, I'll definitely surface a copy. It is a wonderful piece of work that all should listen to (Extraordinary Machine - leak version)

I was speaking of the official release. I know I looked up the leaked version once, back in one of my Jon Brion phrases (I love that guy), but I don't remember what came out of that endeavor. I don't own the leaked version now, at any rate, and I would very much appreciate it if you could send one my way (or point me in the direction of a quality torrent).

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 05:46 PM
It genuinely pains me that I'll never get to hear a fully mastered version of Brion's Extraordinary Machine. I think it would have trumped When The Pawn if it'd been finished.

Mugwog
06-19-2012, 05:56 PM
To hear that an established artist's latest album is being held back due to not having a pop hit is a tragic move by the music business. They probably held back many albums that could have strengthened album sales in the 2000s. "Oh Sailor" on the leaked version brings far more depth in the song with the lack of extra vocals. In the final release, the extra vocals during "Oh Sailor" overwhelmed and didn't really harmonize with Fiona's voice as I feel they were intended to.

And as long as "When The Pawn.." is within the last 3 posts: I gotta say "I Know" is quite possibly the best album closer out of all her albums. This singer makes me feel deep hurt.

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 06:01 PM
Actually it turns out the label wasn't holding it back, Fiona held it back. It's confusing to me, because the end product isn't wildly different in any conceptual way, it's not like she ditched Brion's version to make a version drastically different (say, like Idler), and it's not that she had a falling out with Brion 'cause they kept performing together after that album finally came out. So weird.

Mugwog
06-19-2012, 06:09 PM
Just read an article how she talks about how she's crazy OCD. Pretty sure that's the answer... I can't even listen to the released version without wondering, "what the fuck is this crap?"

marooko
06-19-2012, 07:10 PM
I was just thinking about Fiona a few days ago and was hoping she would release a new album soon. I'm not up on my pop-culture so I don't know if its release had been discussed. I'm 3 tracks in and thoroughly pleased.

Somewhat Damaged
06-19-2012, 07:48 PM
Listened to it in full for the first time on the drive home today. Got a special edition with a DVD containing 5 performances from SXSW and a booklet containing artwork and handwritten lyrics (think Kurt Cobain's Journals). I've got to say that this feels surprisingly adventurous and unlike her previous work. I'd argue that as haggard as her voice sounds at points, it's to the benefit of the emotional rawness of the lyrics. I hadn't heard "Anything We Want" before and think it's the best song on the album at first glance. I'm really eager to see if she performs "Hot Knife" on this tour; it'll be interesting to see how she renders that live.

chairmenmeow47
06-19-2012, 08:56 PM
Listened to it in full for the first time on the drive home today. Got a special edition with a DVD containing 5 performances from SXSW and a booklet containing artwork and handwritten lyrics (think Kurt Cobain's Journals). I've got to say that this feels surprisingly adventurous and unlike her previous work. I'd argue that as haggard as her voice sounds at points, it's to the benefit of the emotional rawness of the lyrics. I hadn't heard "Anything We Want" before and think it's the best song on the album at first glance. I'm really eager to see if she performs "Hot Knife" on this tour; it'll be interesting to see how she renders that live.

her voice sounded a bit "haggard" as you say in 2005 as well, but has actually improved for me. i think of it that she gives too much and it's a moment where vocally it would be wise to pull back a little. just that emotion slipping through :)

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 11:35 PM
Okay, I gotta get somebody to explain this to me: I recently had a rather passionate argument on Facebook with Algunz and some dumb fuck who's friends with Algunz after she posted a link to the NPR stream of the album. They, too, mentioned this notion of her voice sounding "haggard" or to be more specific in regards to their conversation (feel free to correct if I'm misquoting, Gunz) they referred to the obvious "flaws" of her voice, and much like you described how her passion through these vocal "errors" were what made her such an impressive singer.

I don't hear these flaws. I don't hear anything haggard. I don't get it. Is my hearing fucked up? Is letting your voice quiver, like the sound of someone genuinely emoting, considered to be a mistake on the part of the singer or the singer's voice or something? I don't get it.

RotationSlimWang
06-19-2012, 11:36 PM
I'm not even going to be argumentative, I want any of you to give me specific tracks and at what point in the song are the occurrences that bring these adjectives to mind so that I can listen and therefore understand what vocal things you're referring to because I genuinely am not sure what points you're referring to and I want to discuss this reasonably and informed.

marooko
06-20-2012, 06:05 AM
With the lack of actual vocalists and singers being filtered to hell because they can't sing, I'm guessing people just don't know what a good voice actually sounds like. I don't think it's a flaw at all. Considering notes she does reach and hold, I think she can handle them all effortlessly and clearly. I think the cracks are part of her style, it's always been. Would they prefer she make that weird sound Britney and every other poor singer makes before opening their mouths?

icedKeg
06-20-2012, 02:12 PM
First show of her tour was last night in Ithaca, NY. Here is the setlist:

1. Fast As You Can - When the pawn
2. On The Bound - When the pawn
3. Shadowboxer - Tidal
4. Paper Bag - When the pawn
5. Anything We Want - Idler Wheel
6. Get Gone - When the pawn
7. Werewolf - Idler Wheel
8. Sleep To Dream - Tidal
9. Extraordinary Machine - Extraordinary Machine
10. Tymps - Extraordinary Machine
11. Daredevil - Idler Wheel
12. I Know - When the pawn
13. Every Single Night - Idler Wheel
14. Not About Love - Extraordinary Machine
15. Carrion - Tidal
16. Criminal - Tidal
17. It's Only Make Believe (Conway Twitter cover)

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/fiona-apple/2012/the-state-theatre-ithaca-ny-33df1c01.html

JorgeC
06-20-2012, 02:44 PM
no Hot Knife?!? :mad:

glad it's 17 songs tho and nice mix of songs from all her albums.

kitt kat
06-20-2012, 02:47 PM
I don't hear these flaws. I don't hear anything haggard. I don't get it. Is my hearing fucked up? Is letting your voice quiver, like the sound of someone genuinely emoting, considered to be a mistake on the part of the singer or the singer's voice or something? I don't get it.

As someone who is ambivalent on Apple, I can tell you that her voice is in no way haggard. It's very trained; she uses it as an instrument well and the best musicians explore all the sounds of their instrument, not just the "clear tones," if this makes any sense.

tl;dl she can ding, people are dumb. I wish I could sing like she does, and I'm not even a fan.

Alchemy
06-20-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm not even going to be argumentative, I want any of you to give me specific tracks and at what point in the song are the occurrences that bring these adjectives to mind so that I can listen and therefore understand what vocal things you're referring to because I genuinely am not sure what points you're referring to and I want to discuss this reasonably and informed.

I think she sounds "haggard" (or, at least, it's the closest to haggard I can find) on "Daredevil" when she starts screaming. But I've no doubt in my mind that she wanted to sound like that. I would call it "rough," rather than "haggard."

When I showed "Every Single Night" to some friends of mine -- friends who, it so happens, are trained vocalists -- they were a little turned off, I think, by how she sang the chorus. They didn't call it "haggard," but they found it strange. I think Mario's on point when he says "people just don't know what a good voice actually sounds like." Though, maybe a better thing to say is that people mostly encounter good vocalists singing in safe ways. I think Fiona is being real when so many others are just trying to be pretty. It's great, because I almost feel like each listen is different, as though she is singing the songs anew each time I hear it. Like, maybe one of the times I listen to "Every Single Night," she is going to break down in the middle of the chorus. Of course, that's not going to happen, but it feels like it might. I think that is the benefit of this "haggard" singing.

RageAgainstTheAoki
06-20-2012, 02:55 PM
If When The Pawn is her Sgt. Pepper's (massive arrangement, superb production, sounds like a full orchestra and then some was brought in to create the soundscapes at play) then Idler Wheel is her White Album--stripped down, more pure, just her voice, her piano, and percussion. I'm a little annoyed that I didn't put my finger on why it sounded so different to me until Pitchfork mentioned that aspect but that's definitely it. Her work with Jon Brion was spectacular, but it did make it a little difficult to say that it was HER making it so amazing when there were 80 instruments brilliantly arranged around her. By taking all that shit out it's resulted in an end product that technically isn't quite as remarkable of an album but really shows off just how insanely talented she is all by her lonesome.



I know you're referring to Idler Wheel up there^, but this is exactly the reason I agreed with her decision to redo most of Extraordinary Machine with Mike Elizondo. It seems the majority of her fans disagree, but I think it was a very smart decision. The Brion arrangements were gorgeous; he’s an enormously talented arranger and producer, but I think the album got too bloated and overcooked with so many lush arrangements. The focus was no longer on her vocals and her songcraft, but on Brion's work. She chose to keep his arrangements/production for the opening and closing tracks. It allowed the rather cool, hard and flinty sound of the final album to be book-ended by these two warm and charming orchestral numbers. I think this made the tracks much more impactful as result. It’s not that I don’t like the other Brion arrangements – they’re all fine – but I think she made the right decision for the album.


As for this business of her present day voice. I think it has aged quite noticeably, but not in a negative way. I like to think of it more like whiskey aging in a barrel. I don’t think it’s “haggard” as some have said, but I do think it’s unmissable that the timbre of her voice has somewhat darkened. I think her voice is even more throaty than it was in the past. It doesn’t sound like wear and tear to me, but simply the maturing of her voice. The woman was, what? 19 when Tidal came out? She’s in her mid 30s now. Of course the qualities of her voice will evolve as she ages. Hopefully for the better.

Alchemy
06-20-2012, 03:09 PM
Yeah. I actually would switch my haggard example from "Daredevil" to "Jonathan," being an example of her controlled "haggardness." She's a sincere vocalist.

Also, I listened through the Jon Brion version of Extraordinary Machine (thanks again, Mugwog) and I don't know if I would say that it is a better version of the official release. I love what Jon Brion did, but the songs didn't feel too different. I agree that it was a good choice for her to remove his arrangements.

Alchemy
06-20-2012, 03:11 PM
Also is "Jonathan" about Jonathan Ames? I was Wikipedia-ing today, and I didn't realize they dated.

I didn't realize that anybody dated Jonathan Ames except for gross people. (I'm biased off his perverted book, of course. Which was really funny and is why I went to my graduate school, because I thought he would teach me, but he left not long after I arrived. Because of Bored to Death, I think.)

RageAgainstTheAoki
06-20-2012, 03:19 PM
Yes, I think it's been established that the song is about J. Ames.

chairmenmeow47
06-20-2012, 03:42 PM
I think she sounds "haggard" (or, at least, it's the closest to haggard I can find) on "Daredevil" when she starts screaming. But I've no doubt in my mind that she wanted to sound like that. I would call it "rough," rather than "haggard."

When I showed "Every Single Night" to some friends of mine -- friends who, it so happens, are trained vocalists -- they were a little turned off, I think, by how she sang the chorus. They didn't call it "haggard," but they found it strange. I think Mario's on point when he says "people just don't know what a good voice actually sounds like." Though, maybe a better thing to say is that people mostly encounter good vocalists singing in safe ways. I think Fiona is being real when so many others are just trying to be pretty. It's great, because I almost feel like each listen is different, as though she is singing the songs anew each time I hear it. Like, maybe one of the times I listen to "Every Single Night," she is going to break down in the middle of the chorus. Of course, that's not going to happen, but it feels like it might. I think that is the benefit of this "haggard" singing.

daredevil, agree. but i also don't see it as a flaw. when i saw her perform in 2005, she was doing a lot of growling for some reason which i wasn't a fan of. but i love that what comes out of her appears to be a piece of herself. which is why i love her. technically good singers are not always what you want to hear. if you don't have the performance to back it up; it's flat. and i think fiona backs it up with both technique and performance. it's always better to sometimes want to pull someone back than wish they'd give more.

icedKeg
06-20-2012, 03:48 PM
i have some slight problems with her voice on "Regret."

Somewhat Damaged
06-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Perhaps "haggard" was too harsh a term ("rough" is probably better) but I wasn't saying it derisively and I wasn't saying that it was persistent, nor did I mean to imply that its inclusion in the finished product wasn't deliberate. And Tim is right about it being in "Daredevil" -- when I'm home, I'll post a video and cite the exact moment that prompted me to describe her voice that way. I think it's in another track or two as well.

Riggins33
06-20-2012, 04:07 PM
Shes gonna be at 94.9 Indie jam in San Diego....shes headlining so I guess I gots to start listening to this smelly bitch's music..

Mr. Dylanja
06-20-2012, 04:09 PM
Maybe "human" is the correct term.

Somewhat Damaged
06-20-2012, 06:09 PM
"Daredevil" -- from 1:46 to 2:08. "Seek me out..." to "...in the middle of the night."


http://youtu.be/5EOUyoKFksI

"Regret" -- from 2:25 to 2:35 & 3:53 to 4:03. "I ran out of white dove feathers."


http://youtu.be/m9ur8_kPSR8

I think in both cases it serves the song well. And after looking up some definitions & synonyms on "haggard," I think that's a fair description of her voice in those particular moments: worn, wearied.

ShyGuy75
06-21-2012, 10:58 AM
Yeah I'm making a whole thread just for this album. Fuck the overall Fiona thread, I want to talk about this and this specifically.

It's hard for me to explain how much I love this woman. She's easily the best female vocalist of our generation and her lyrical talents are equaled only by the true greats of all time. As a thoroughly "male" personality, there's something that always draws me in about great female songstresses almost more than any man can in that I'm more impressed by an artist who can make me identify with a part of the human condition that I feel so inherently distant from. When I listen to her words and the passion with which she sings them it makes me feel like I know the plight of every crazy woman I've ever known and loved.

What are everyone's favorites? Thus far, Jonathan, Left Alone, Werewolf, Periphery and Anything We Want are just killing me. Hot Knife to me feels like her just demonstrating to the world what a fucking genius of harmonies and lyrics and singing she is. Can't wait to see if she tries to pull it off live and what it would sound like.

you smoking crack again?

every song sounds the same

RotationSlimWang
06-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Maybe "human" is the correct term.

EXACTLY. Who the fuck wants to listen to Whitney Houston, seriously? "Perfect" voices sound boring. Give me some fucking personality.

Devin the Dude
06-30-2012, 09:22 AM
Terrible album.

PotVsKtl
06-30-2012, 01:16 PM
Thanks for your input person who is not the person whose name you're using.

Mr. Dylanja
06-30-2012, 01:29 PM
EXACTLY. Who the fuck wants to listen to Whitney Houston, seriously? "Perfect" voices sound boring. Give me some fucking personality.

I think people are disappointed in the lack of auto-tune used.

bmack86
06-30-2012, 01:33 PM
I want a whole album like Hot Knife. See her just going wild with song structure and rhythm.

faxman75
06-30-2012, 04:53 PM
This album is such a pleasure to listen to. I love every quiver in her voice. Human is a great description and emotional in a way Janis Joplin was with hers. I would have a tough time choosing between this album and when the pawn as my favorite. I'm can't wait to see her perform live again.

chairmenmeow47
07-03-2012, 10:23 AM
omg carrion.

also, back to the tummy thing. i honestly think she used the word more for vowels because she jumps octaves. "stomach" is not a very friendly word to sing, whereas "tummy" and "belly" are. i don't think it's some weird tie to childhood.

and i think left alone could be on a hot knife album.

Alchemy
07-03-2012, 04:06 PM
I wish she would play "The Way Things Are" on this tour. Either way, I can't wait to finally see her.

RotationSlimWang
07-03-2012, 07:02 PM
also, back to the tummy thing. i honestly think she used the word more for vowels because she jumps octaves. "stomach" is not a very friendly word to sing, whereas "tummy" and "belly" are. i don't think it's some weird tie to childhood.


Also it starts to become a pretty unwieldy sentence without tummy. With tummy you at least get the alliteration factor of Tears and Tummy.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about this until just now, but she actually has to do that to make a chorus with no rhymes work from a phonetic/rhythmic perspective. How can I ask anyone to love me... when all I do is beg to be left alone. Makes the lack of a rhyme slide down better because similar syllabic patterns are used. Nifty. I wonder if she thinks about this shit.

chairmenmeow47
07-04-2012, 05:43 AM
i would hope as a singer she at least thinks about vowels. the more vowels that let you drop your jaw open, the more air and sound you can make. consonants close off your air and can't be sustained. i wouldn't be surprised if she also thought about things like syllabic patterns :)

i personally love:

just tolerate my little fists tugging on your forest chest

MissBellaHell
07-06-2012, 08:47 AM
I had no idea people were this interested in Fiona Apple.

This. I have heard snippets of the new album and it sounds like a complete mess.

ods..
07-06-2012, 08:56 AM
This. I have heard snippets of the new album and it sounds like a complete mess.

Snippets.

Complete. Mess.

MissBellaHell
07-06-2012, 09:06 AM
Snippets.

Complete. Mess.

I am not sure what you are saying but it seems to indicate that there is no possible way I could determine whether the album is a mess by listening to snippets. You'd be right of course. I've heard Hot Knife (loved it until it got to the absurd show tune part), Jonathan, and Every Single Night in their entirety. I also have heard tracks from several reviews (Sound Opinions and two different NPR reviews) that vary wildly. If she was an artist I really cared about I'd get the album and give it a shot but she has never been, so meh.

chairmenmeow47
07-06-2012, 09:07 AM
absurd showtune part?

Cheddar's Cousin
07-06-2012, 10:08 AM
Do not want

I'll listen to Norah all day.

zircona1
07-06-2012, 12:28 PM
Snoooorah Jones

chairmenmeow47
07-08-2012, 09:52 AM
the every single night video is even better tripping.

ods..
07-08-2012, 10:03 AM
I am not sure what you are saying but it seems to indicate that there is no possible way I could determine whether the album is a mess by listening to snippets. You'd be right of course. I've heard Hot Knife (loved it until it got to the absurd show tune part), Jonathan, and Every Single Night in their entirety. I also have heard tracks from several reviews (Sound Opinions and two different NPR reviews) that vary wildly. If she was an artist I really cared about I'd get the album and give it a shot but she has never been, so meh.

How could you tell if you'll like an album as a whole if you've only heard like 4 songs, played at random parts in the day. It's like reading various chapters of a book and saying you didn't understand the book and you hated it.

Edit: and btw, this is not an attack on you specifically. It's an attack on the way people listen to music now... how can you expect to love/like/even judge an album if you haven't heard it all the way thru at least once.

bmack86
07-08-2012, 10:51 AM
And also:

Absurd show tune part?

chairmenmeow47
07-08-2012, 12:46 PM
huh, just listened to her NPR interview. that's so cool her sister sang harmony on hot knife. and they sghared a mic.

RotationSlimWang
07-09-2012, 06:41 AM
... absurd showtune part?

chairmenmeow47
07-09-2012, 07:24 AM
I've heard Hot Knife (loved it until it got to the absurd show tune part)


absurd showtune part?


And also:

Absurd show tune part?


... absurd showtune part?

DEFEND YOURSELF, MISSBELLAHELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Alchemy
07-09-2012, 01:42 PM
Wait... You guys don't have The Price is Right theme song teaser in your version of "Hot Knife"? It's my favorite part!

bmack86
07-09-2012, 01:44 PM
Maybe she's talking about the part where it gets really good and her ears stop being able to take the goodness.

wmgaretjax
07-09-2012, 02:47 PM
I'm confused too... Virtually all of her music sounds like overwrought show tunes. What about that track distinguishes it?

RageAgainstTheAoki
07-09-2012, 10:06 PM
Yeah, strange comment. Clearly the tin pan alley composers are some of her biggest influences.

Anyone seen her on this tour yet? Can't wait for Oakland.

bmack86
07-09-2012, 11:25 PM
I'm confused too... Virtually all of her music sounds like overwrought show tunes. What about that track distinguishes it?

Have you listened to it? I don't know that it'll be up your alley at all, but you'd have to agree that it doesn't really sound anything like her other work.

Alchemy
07-11-2012, 10:26 AM
I imagine that Jared watches shows that none of us have ever heard about (and can only be accessed via a TV satellite contraption that one must build on their own). Perhaps they have different show tunes than we are used to.

wmgaretjax
07-11-2012, 10:40 AM
broadway in space?

PotVsKtl
07-11-2012, 10:41 AM
Fiona Apple songs sound like three cocktail spoons in a glass jar.

Originalbob
07-11-2012, 11:49 PM
Probably a confession: I just cried for a half hour listening to the lyrics of "regret" because I'm not so certain I should give a copy to my quasi-sister-in-law from a recent domestic violence from my brother against her that landed her in the hospital. She loves Fiona but not certain she'll find those lyrics comforting. And maybe I should give a copy to my brother so that he might get a clue.

Other than that, I'm certain I'll be tearing the whole time at her concert next week. just hope she doesn't see me bawling to her lyrics. Fucking Fiona sings about my life--how is that possible? sigh

marooko
07-12-2012, 06:00 AM
Hopefully she's strong enough to have called the police and stick with it.

Did you all know Madoff is in jail because he stole from the 1%?

RotationSlimWang
07-12-2012, 07:26 AM
I'm confused too... Virtually all of her music sounds like overwrought show tunes. What about that track distinguishes it?


Fiona Apple songs sound like three cocktail spoons in a glass jar.

Don't you dickbags have some underground post-noise-hip-hop to pretend to enjoy so you can look cool somewhere?

ShyGuy75
07-14-2012, 07:31 AM
went to the show a few nights ago. felt good

1GQlC4X3EWk

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj20/coachella75/IMG_1449.jpg

RotationSlimWang
07-14-2012, 04:57 PM
I thought you hated this album, dbag?

ShyGuy75
07-15-2012, 08:43 AM
lies

chairmenmeow47
07-15-2012, 08:56 AM
hi shyguy

ShyGuy75
07-15-2012, 10:15 AM
hi chairmenmeow

buddy
07-16-2012, 01:34 AM
She's on the latest wtf podcast

Somewhat Damaged
07-18-2012, 07:12 AM
I'm trolling some asshole on Facebook who's selling 2 orchestra tickets for the AZ show for $145 apiece. Face value is $65. His defense is that his prices are lower than everyone else selling tickets on eBay.

chairmenmeow47
07-19-2012, 08:19 AM
is it just me, or does fiona apple look more and more like sarah connor each day.

chairmenmeow47
07-28-2012, 11:45 AM
this interview is adorable!!!!!!!!! the interview starts at 4:35. before that is "get him back".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=3EzEC61AHi0


honestly not a huge fan of this interview, but 10 minutes in randy, you are right :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=JVetgxs7gO4

RageAgainstTheAoki
07-29-2012, 02:28 AM
She was in fine form at the Fox tonight. What a wonderful performance. I love how she and her band added a bit of muscle to the Idler Wheel songs without betraying the originals. The one disappointment was the sound. Absolutely atrocious for the first 5 or 6 numbers. Thank goodness it got progressively better toward the end of the evening. There were some songs in which it sounded like Fiona and band were playing in an empty high school gymnasium. Across town. Biggest surprise for me was 'Not About Love', from Extraordinary Machine, a song I'm pretty indifferent to. It was absolutely electrifying tonight.

RageAgainstTheAoki
07-30-2012, 07:59 PM
So, uhh... does no one give a shit about Fiona anymore or are you all talking about the tour in some other thread?

schoolofruckus
07-30-2012, 09:25 PM
I was wondering the same thing. She fucking killt it last night at the Palladium. More piano and less scatting than I was led to expect, but otherwise wildly exceeded my imagination of what it would be.

Miroir Noir
07-30-2012, 09:33 PM
Yeah, I'm a week late reporting on this, but she was the show of the year for me so far.

RageAgainstTheAoki
07-30-2012, 10:14 PM
Any standout moments, fellas? From what my friends are telling me, the Palladium show was just as intense at the Fox show. I hadn't planned on doing more than one show this tour, but now I have to decide if I'm seeing her again in Oceanside or Vegas. Leaning toward O'side, but hope that she gets a full set there.

TallGuyCM
07-30-2012, 10:35 PM
"Not About Love" was absolutely stunning, as was the entire show.

RotationSlimWang
07-30-2012, 11:17 PM
She was great as was the band but goddammit is the Palladium ever just a fucking terrible venue for her. If it was at the Wiltern it would have been perfect.

chairmenmeow47
07-31-2012, 04:05 AM
i can't wait for september!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm glad to hear not about love is great live. as much as i love the new album, i've been listening to extraordinary machine a lot to cheer myself up.

zircona1
07-31-2012, 05:40 AM
She was wonderful when I saw her 2 weeks ago in Kansas City, she sounded pretty intense on a few songs.

I'm glad she's playing 'Get Gone', that's my favorite song of hers.

Somewhat Damaged
07-31-2012, 10:05 AM
I was at the Oakland show as well and really enjoyed it. The crowd around me was pretty much perfect. We had a bit of an obstructed view, which meant I'd have to lean forward or angle my body a bit in order to see her when she was at the piano, but it was still fine. The unexpected surprises for me were "Shadowboxer" and "Carrion," and while not as much of Idler Wheel... was played as I'd have liked, the selections from that album were my favorite tracks, so I couldn't complain. I'm really looking forward to the Mesa show in September, though, especially since our seats are so great, and I'm also hopeful that as the tour progresses, she changes the setlist up a little. (Fingers crossed for "Hot Knife," "Never Is a Promise," and "Love Ridden.")

chairmenmeow47
07-31-2012, 10:21 AM
reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally hoping for carrion at the mesa show. god i love that song.

Alchemy
07-31-2012, 10:37 AM
I hope she brings "Regret" into the mix come September.

casey
07-31-2012, 11:30 AM
She's on the latest wtf podcast

I love his podcast; the interviews are always different and interesting. I'm listening now and he has already spoken to Fiona about getting couples colonics. Listen here: http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episodes/episode_297_-_fiona_apple

algunz
09-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Any suggestions for places to eat around The Greek? I haven't been there in years and don't know the area that well.

I can't wait for FRIDAY!!!!

RageAgainstTheAoki
09-11-2012, 01:17 AM
Barbrix is less than 2 miles from the Greek. Small plates. Wide variety of fresh, seasonal options. Nice, relaxed setting.

http://www.barbrix.com/Home.html


If you're in more of a hurry, there's Best Fish Taco in Ensenada and Umami Burger.

icedKeg
09-13-2012, 10:26 PM
who is all going to the Greek show Friday night? the tickets/website say 7:30pm; so with only one opener (Blake Mills), would a good guess for when Fiona takes the stage be...9:15pm?

and algunz, there are a lot of good options on Vermont & Hillhurst. what kind of vibe/food are you looking for?

Mugwog
09-14-2012, 12:11 AM
who is all going to the Greek show Friday night? the tickets/website say 7:30pm; so with only one opener (Blake Mills), would a good guess for when Fiona takes the stage be...9:15pm?

and algunz, there are a lot of good options on Vermont & Hillhurst. what kind of vibe/food are you looking for?

Got an email stating:

Doors @ 6
Seating areas @ 630
Blake @ 730
Fiona @ 830

icedKeg
09-14-2012, 07:51 AM
yikes, i'm going to have to race home from work!

algunz
09-14-2012, 09:28 AM
Turns out we have one extra ticket available. PM if you're interested.

HAIRYGOOMBA
09-14-2012, 09:53 AM
Went to see Fiona on Wed at S.B. Bowl ("see what Apple does on Wed").....that was the new iphone promo.
Anyway, really weird low turn out. Disinterested audience. What gives, man?

I was able to move my low price seat, with the usher's encouragement, to right behind the soundboard-feet up on stone wall. Perfect!

I was enthralled, spellbound, enamored, goose bumpity ecstatic. She is just brilliant.

Too bad so few people were there to appreciate one of the best concerts I've ever attended. She really put it all out there.

Mugwog
09-14-2012, 09:57 AM
Definitely going to inquire about some upgraded seating tonight, the section I got for 90/ticket was pretty steep, but it seems there's a flood of tickets from scalpers and it never sold out.. Maybe get to have a better seat, and what's with this Blake guy? Any one ever listen to him? I could definitely not sit down and smoke more/drink if the box office releases better seats during his performance...

HAIRYGOOMBA
09-14-2012, 10:12 AM
I felt bad for the Blake guy. No one was listening/responding.

I am really surprised that these venues have not sold out.

Mr. Fuzz
09-16-2012, 08:53 PM
waka waka

Mr. Fuzz
09-17-2012, 08:23 AM
Anyone know that last song that she sung in Vegas?

zircona1
09-17-2012, 08:25 AM
Anyone know that last song that she sung in Vegas?

It was probably her cover of Conway Twitty's 'It's Only Make Believe' that she's been closing all(?) of her shows with.

Mr. Fuzz
09-17-2012, 08:30 AM
Oh yeah, that's it! Thanks, dude!

Mr. Fuzz
09-17-2012, 08:47 AM
http://youtu.be/GTZHHw3v_LM

nathanfairchild
09-20-2012, 08:05 AM
The cry "Free Fiona" has taken on new meaning. Cue the "Criminal" jokes, etc. This year's favorite resurgent singer-songwriter, Fiona Apple, has been arrested for possession of hash in Sierra Blanca, Texas, TMZ reports, at a border stop. Apple is currently being held in a Hudspeth County jail. Let the outlaw-Fiona fan fic-writing commence. Fuck Yeah Fiona Apple, we see you.
Apple is on an extended leg of her North American tour in support of her incredible new album The Idler Wheel; she's scheduled to play Austin City Limits Live at the Moody Theater tonight.
Watch the video for Idler Wheel single "Every Single Night". If there's anyone whose inner monologue has prepared her well for an arrest, we're guessing it's the woman who wrote the lyric, "Every single night's a fight with my brain."

I have tickets to see her tonight. I'm gonna be fucking pissed if she has to cancel.

Alchemy
09-20-2012, 08:18 AM
I'm seeing her tomorrow night. She better not cancel!

Mr. Fuzz
09-20-2012, 08:30 AM
Fucking Texas.

icedKeg
09-20-2012, 09:04 AM
A very similar situation happened to me, except that I got away somehow. Fucking Texas is right.

algunz
09-20-2012, 09:13 AM
What a fucking joke!

Mugwog
09-20-2012, 09:14 AM
Texas is the one state that loves to fuck with musicians and their love of ganja.

nathanfairchild
09-20-2012, 09:49 AM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ni0axk.jpg

HotHamWater
09-20-2012, 11:10 AM
Fucking Texas.


A very similar situation happened to me, except that I got away somehow. Fucking Texas is right.


What a fucking joke!

Is it legal to possess hash everywhere but Texas?

Everyone knows it's illegal. I don't understand all the outrage whenever someone gets caught.

faxman75
09-20-2012, 11:20 AM
This is the city of Sierra Blanca's claim to fame. Same city where they busted Willie Nelson and Snoop Dogg. They like the publicity it brings and the revenue of course.

Mugwog
09-20-2012, 11:46 AM
Is it legal to possess hash everywhere but Texas?

Everyone knows it's illegal. I don't understand all the outrage whenever someone gets caught.

Actually Fiona has her medical card bro

OnlyNonStranger
09-20-2012, 12:04 PM
They definitely accept medical cards in Texas.

bmack86
09-20-2012, 12:18 PM
Is it legal to possess hash everywhere but Texas?

Everyone knows it's illegal. I don't understand all the outrage whenever someone gets caught.

Yeah, but being put in jail for possession is a different matter. That's just ridiculous.

Miroir Noir
09-20-2012, 12:20 PM
Yeah, the fuck is going on here? How is this not a book and release offense, or even a citation to appear?

Mr. Fuzz
09-20-2012, 12:35 PM
It should really just be a citation.

faxman75
09-20-2012, 12:42 PM
Yeah, the fuck is going on here? How is this not a book and release offense, or even a citation to appear?

Every state is different. Governor Rick Perry actually made it so it can be a citation and release offense in the State of Texas. However, they can make the booking process fairly long. Also, who says she is doing any jail time or not being released today?

Again, this is how the city in question gets publicity, they get a rock star and call the press then they will milk it for all it's worth. She is actually lucky she didn't get busted for the same exact thing a few nights ago in Arizona. Not just because we have a publicity happy Sheriff but in Arizona posesssion of ANY amount of weed is an automatic Class 6 felony. Most of those get drug diversion on first offense but that doesn't change the fact that in general the charge is felonious here in Arizona. Medical marijuana is legal here but states do not accept out of state medical cards.

faxman75
09-20-2012, 12:46 PM
There is also a distinction in Texas. Pot is a misdemeanor and hash is a felony. So the hash got a her a night in jail.


Apple spent Wednesday night in the county jail and was released Thursday on a $10,000 bond. Hudspeth County sheriff's office spokesman Rusty Flemming says Apple "had a little tiny amount of pot and hash." Marijuana possession in small amounts is a misdemeanor, while hashish in any quantity is a felony in Texas.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2012/09/20/fiona-apple-arrested-for-hashish-possession/70000804/1

She just announced on facebook that tonights Austin show has in fact been postponed.

Mr. Fuzz
09-20-2012, 12:54 PM
You can't get busted if you smoke it al.

xanman86
09-20-2012, 01:16 PM
I gotta light one up and give this album a chance tonight -_-

Mr. Fuzz
09-20-2012, 02:06 PM
http://www.trbimg.com/img-505b7cd8/turbine/la-celebritymugshot-pg-007/600

TomAz
09-20-2012, 02:10 PM
Can one of you legal lawyer people explain to me how what happened to her is not an illegal search?


According to the sheriff's office, Apple's tour bus came through a border-patrol checkpoint Wednesday night at 8 p.m. CT. During a routine citizenship check, a border-patrol canine detected the presence of controlled substances and the dog found hashish and marijuana in a blue backpack.

So basically what we have here is a free American citizen stopped without probably cause ("routine citizenship check"), subjected to a canine search, and arrested based on the results of that search. I mean I thought this was EXACTLY AND PRECISELY THE KIND OF THING the 4th Amendment was supposed to protect us from?

bmack86
09-20-2012, 02:25 PM
The fourth amendment has an exception for "routine border searches" which do not have to actually occur at the border, but within a reasonable nexus.

Which I think is bullshit, but this does fall into a court-recognized exception due to the heightened safety concerns at borders.

faxman75
09-20-2012, 02:25 PM
One of the stories I read said she was stopped at an "interior check point".
Because i'm tired. Here is what wiki says about them.


The United States Supreme Court ruled that Border Patrol agents may stop a vehicle at fixed checkpoints for brief questioning of its occupants even if there is no reason to believe that the particular vehicle contains illegal aliens.[4] The Court further held that Border Patrol agents "have wide discretion" to refer motorists selectively to a secondary inspection area for additional brief questioning.

I'm assuming during this stop and questioning they became suspicious of narcotics but we don't know why. Maybe a smell coming from the bus? Maybe the agent simply asked permissoin the bus driver didn't know his rights? No idea we can only speculate.

The Supreme Court is mostly responsible for our constitutional rights being weakened.

A bit on K-9's.


In 2005's Illinois vs. Caballes, the high court ruled 5-3 (a seriously ill Chief Justice William Rehnquist took no part in the case) it was constitutional to make a vehicle search when a drug-sniffing dog alerts officers to contraband during a routine traffic stop.

Justice John Paul Stevens, in the majority opinion, said the ruling "is entirely consistent with our recent decision that the use of a thermal-imaging device to detect the growth of marijuana in a home constituted an unlawful search. ... Critical to that decision was the fact that the device was capable of detecting lawful activity -- in that case, intimate details in a home, such as 'at what hour each night the lady of the house takes her daily sauna and bath.' .... The legitimate expectation that information about perfectly lawful activity will remain private is categorically distinguishable from respondent's hopes or expectations concerning the non-detection of contraband in the trunk of his car. A dog sniff conducted during a concededly lawful traffic stop that reveals no information other than the location of a substance that no individual has any right to possess does not violate the Fourth Amendment."


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/06/24/Under-the-US-Supreme-Court-To-sniff-or-not-to-sniff/UPI-65491340523000/#ixzz273FR6JT5

TomAz
09-20-2012, 02:29 PM
The fourth amendment has an exception for "routine border searches" which do not have to actually occur at the border, but within a reasonable nexus.

Which I think is bullshit, but this does fall into a court-recognized exception due to the heightened safety concerns at borders.

So if you're close to the border you can be stopped and searched for things that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BORDER SECURITY.

Jesus fucking christ nazi pig state. Next time some hatwearing redneck fucktard tries to tell or sing to me that "At least I know I'm free" I'm gonna shove an abe lincoln sized stovepipe up his filthy inbred cornhole. Not a stovepipe hat, an actual stovepipe.

faxman75
09-20-2012, 02:32 PM
So if you're close to the border you can be stopped and searched for things that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BORDER SECURITY.

Jesus fucking christ nazi pig state. Next time some hatwearing redneck fucktard tries to tell or sing to me that "At least I know I'm free" I'm gonna shove an abe lincoln sized stovepipe up his filthy inbred cornhole. Not a stovepipe hat, an actual stovepipe.

I agree with this 100%. Also according to the law I think close is within 75 miles!

Mr. Dylanja
09-20-2012, 02:38 PM
Arizona has a similar check point east of Yuma, where Lil Wayne got busted. The New Times did a cover story on it a few years ago where a grandmother and her two friends were arrested for two roaches found in the ashtray of her car, which they had accidentally left there after their week long vacation in Coronado. They were also caught by a canine unit. I remember the article saying that the dogs were there to detect explosives, but consequently the drug related arrests increased by close to 400%.

TomAz
09-20-2012, 02:42 PM
Because Yuma is under constant danger of terrorists threatening to blow it up.

Where the fuck is the ACLU? this is just as outrageous as "stop and frisk" IMO.

nathanfairchild
09-20-2012, 02:43 PM
I agree with this 100%. Also according to the law I think close is within 75 miles!

based on where they were stopped they were like 5 - 10 miles from the border.

Miroir Noir
09-20-2012, 02:44 PM
I have issues with expansionary use of checkpoints, but I really don't see much a problem with the language Faxy bolded above, especially in light of the diminished privacy expectations associated with motor vehicles. It's actually a pretty interesting area of Fourth Amendment law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States), and one that doesn't neatly break down on traditional liberal v. conservative, civil liberties v. prosecution lines. There's a canine sniff case as it relates to homes coming up in the next SCOTUS term.

Mr. Dylanja
09-20-2012, 02:52 PM
Because Yuma is under constant danger of terrorists threatening to blow it up.

Where the fuck is the ACLU? this is just as outrageous as "stop and frisk" IMO.

Here's the article if you're interested. (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-03-13/news/border-patrol-checkpoints-near-yuma-nab-hordes-of-pot-users-headed-back-from-the-beach/)

TomAz
09-20-2012, 02:54 PM
I have issues with expansionary use of checkpoints, but I really don't see much a problem with the language Faxy bolded above, especially in light of the diminished privacy expectations associated with motor vehicles. It's actually a pretty interesting area of Fourth Amendment law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States), and one that doesn't neatly break down on traditional liberal v. conservative, civil liberties v. prosecution lines. There's a canine sniff case as it relates to homes coming up in the next SCOTUS term.

Diminished privacy expectations in motor vehicles, diminished freedom from random searches near borders, in schools, in black neighborhoods in NY and Philly... this is not the America that I was raised to believe in.

Miroir Noir
09-20-2012, 03:00 PM
Motor vehicles have had diminished privacy expectations since 1925. Cops can search based on sufficient probable cause, without a warrant.

Miroir Noir
09-20-2012, 03:05 PM
For whatever it's worth, with the exception of the Establishment Clause, there is perhaps no other part of the Constitution that the Supreme Court has rendered more confusing and incoherent than the Fourth Amendment. It is also the area of the Constitution where my own views tend to be less liberal than any other.

HowToDisappear
09-20-2012, 03:36 PM
There are at least six Border Patrol checkpoints in San Diego County, exclusive of the three actual border crossings. If we take the freeway (instead of the backroads) out to our favorite county desert campground, we could conceivably be stopped twice, without being anywhere near the border. At first they were casual about it, and it was strange being stopped, but it didn't seem all that intrusive. When the day came that they came to our windows demanding to know where we were going, wearing flak jackets and carrying assault rifles, we were like WTF? And on later trips, when they starting demanding to know our citizenship, and the citizenship of our children, that's when we were like what the hell country are we living in? It's ridiculous, and I'm sick of it. And yes, god help you if you've got any contraband and they have dogs; they will nail you to the wall.

algunz
09-20-2012, 03:46 PM
Shit, this is just making me paranoid. I need to take a closer look at my car. I'm sure there's stuff in there that I don't even remember.

zircona1
09-20-2012, 03:51 PM
http://www.pacovilla.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/CDCR-Smoke-Van.png

amyzzz
09-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Don't use stinky drugs!

amyzzz
09-20-2012, 04:08 PM
Keep raw hamburger in your car when you're near the border!

Mugwog
09-20-2012, 04:11 PM
Shut the fuck up Amy.

Get smelly proof bags and a vacuum sealer. Have your bus driver know what routes have routine stops and which ones don't.

Fucking amateurs.

Alchemy
09-20-2012, 07:16 PM
One of the stories I read said she was stopped at an "interior check point".
Because i'm tired. Here is what wiki says about them.


So if you're close to the border you can be stopped and searched for things that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BORDER SECURITY.

I've gone through this infamous check point many times. It separates El Paso from the rest of Texas, which I believe is why it is there. I think the idea is that they might catch whatever the actual border check points missed, since a great deal of all the drugs in the United States first make their way through El Paso/Juarez.

I know somebody who has had to stay in their little holding cell. But I've never had that kind of problem. Although, there have been a few times when they were being ultra-vigilant and slowing down traffic. And I mean spending like a minute or more with each damn car, where the line stretches for about 50 cars. It's a stupid checkpoint.

suprefan
09-20-2012, 08:02 PM
Shut the fuck up Amy.

Get smelly proof bags and a vacuum sealer. Have your bus driver know what routes have routine stops and which ones don't.

Fucking amateurs.


Prob willie nelsons driver.

TomAz
09-20-2012, 08:40 PM
And never been through that stretch of West Texas. I-10 is the only east-west paved road in 50 miles in either direction.

faxman75
09-21-2012, 07:58 AM
At least Jesse Ventua will take a stand. He mentions the interior check-points too.

f8U4JsmGM3E

TomAz
09-21-2012, 08:22 AM
There are at least six Border Patrol checkpoints in San Diego County, exclusive of the three actual border crossings. If we take the freeway (instead of the backroads) out to our favorite county desert campground, we could conceivably be stopped twice, without being anywhere near the border. At first they were casual about it, and it was strange being stopped, but it didn't seem all that intrusive. When the day came that they came to our windows demanding to know where we were going, wearing flak jackets and carrying assault rifles, we were like WTF? And on later trips, when they starting demanding to know our citizenship, and the citizenship of our children, that's when we were like what the hell country are we living in? It's ridiculous, and I'm sick of it. And yes, god help you if you've got any contraband and they have dogs; they will nail you to the wall.

You're my age, you remember what it was like growing up in the Cold War. As kids in school we were taught that the Soviet Union was bad because their people were not free, and one of the most common examples given was the restriction on travel within the country. My family would take road trips, we would drive from Ohio to Florida or something, and my dad would say "Now imagine what it would be like if the army stopped us along the way and made us show our papers. That's what the Soviet Union is, kids." But that's precisely what the US is turning into.

faxman75
09-21-2012, 08:51 AM
But only the darker skinned Americans have to do that Tom. Not us.

amyzzz
09-21-2012, 09:03 AM
Fiona Apple has dark skin?

suprefan
09-21-2012, 09:24 AM
Fiona Apple has dark skin?

Her bus driver was

HowToDisappear
09-21-2012, 09:26 AM
You're my age, you remember what it was like growing up in the Cold War. As kids in school we were taught that the Soviet Union was bad because their people were not free, and one of the most common examples given was the restriction on travel within the country. My family would take road trips, we would drive from Ohio to Florida or something, and my dad would say "Now imagine what it would be like if the army stopped us along the way and made us show our papers. That's what the Soviet Union is, kids." But that's precisely what the US is turning into.

It's genuinely appalling. We're sliding down the slippery slope, and I don't know how to stop it.


And Faxy, don't count on it. My husband's whiter than white (I'm not dark-skinned either, but I have dark hair/eyes/ambiguous ethnicity). They'll still demand to know your comings and goings and have that AK at the ready if needed, for added emphasis.

TomAz
09-21-2012, 09:27 AM
Either you people can't read, or you've not met HTD in person. She's about as white as white gets.

HotHamWater
09-21-2012, 12:11 PM
I guess the checkpoint just north of Las Cruces never bothered me, even though you occasionally see people with guns there. I never had anything illegal on me, so they never had a reason to detain or hassle me.

HowToDisappear
09-21-2012, 01:29 PM
That's not the point. We never carry anything illegal either. We're about as harmless as they come. But if we decide we'd like to go camping in a place we've camped a million times, in a county in which we were born and raised, and we've broken no laws and committed no crimes, what right have they to question our right to be there and travel where we please on open, public roadways? It's insane. (When they took a long, hard look at our daughters, who were home at the time for winter break from college, and questioned their citizenship, my hackles were completely raised. And the girls? They were stunned.)

Last winter we popped up to Idyllwild, and they'd added a checkpoint to the 79 (a very beautiful and remote backcountry road) south of the Riverside County line, and all we could say to ourselves was "OH FUCKING HELL... REALLY???" Of course, when the border patrol agent stopped us and asked where we were going, we cheerily replied, "Idyllwild", when what we really wanted to say was "well, that's really none of your fucking business, is it?... because last I heard, this was a free country." But that would be the wrong answer, and getting snippy with a federal agent is never a good idea.

PotVsKtl
09-21-2012, 01:51 PM
ILqc0DMh84k

Mr. Fuzz
09-21-2012, 01:56 PM
Damn! So that's the law, huh?

Miroir Noir
09-21-2012, 02:10 PM
Yep. The two questions that will end most police encounters are 1) "am I free to leave?" and 2) "if I am not free to leave, do you have probable cause for detaining me?"

HotHamWater
09-21-2012, 02:25 PM
That's not the point. We never carry anything illegal either. We're about as harmless as they come. But if we decide we'd like to go camping in a place we've camped a million times, in a county in which we were born and raised, and we've broken no laws and committed no crimes, what right have they to question our right to be there and travel where we please on open, public roadways? It's insane. (When they took a long, hard look at our daughters, who were home at the time for winter break from college, and questioned their citizenship, my hackles were completely raised. And the girls? They were stunned.)

Last winter we popped up to Idyllwild, and they'd added a checkpoint to the 79 (a very beautiful and remote backcountry road) south of the Riverside County line, and all we could say to ourselves was "OH FUCKING HELL... REALLY???" Of course, when the border patrol agent stopped us and asked where we were going, we cheerily replied, "Idyllwild", when what we really wanted to say was "well, that's really none of your fucking business, is it?... because last I heard, this was a free country." But that would be the wrong answer, and getting snippy with a federal agent is never a good idea.

No, I understand. I'm probably the one with the problem because I should care more. I just always answered the questions and went on my way. I never felt violated or anything.

Mr. Fuzz
09-21-2012, 02:29 PM
Yep. The two questions that will end most police encounters are 1) "am I free to leave?" and 2) "if I am not free to leave, do you have probable cause for detaining me?"

What if I say "no" but they want me to walk the line or take a breathalizer after?

HowToDisappear
09-21-2012, 02:43 PM
I checked the ACLU's website, and you are only compelled by law to answer questions by the Border Patrol at the border or in an airport. So you can refuse at these checkpoints. I am certain it would be a drawn out, unpleasant experience, and they'd probably run your plates and put your name on some "non-compliant" list somewhere but.... WHOO-HOO.


And Tommy, I really do feel it's a violation every time it happens. It worries me that an entire generation is growing up to believe this is normal and acceptable.

faxman75
09-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Using a drug sniffing dog at an interior immigration check point is illegal. Here are some court cases you can read on the matter.

City of Indianapolis V Edmond, US V Martinez-Fuerte, US V Ortiz and US V Brignoni-Ponce.

Also there are plenty of youtube videos of people purposely challenging these check points and often these agents have no choice but to let the people go and they use the two questions Miroir Noir suggests above.

JaA6GUQlwqA

Alchemy
09-21-2012, 09:26 PM
Fiona was fantastic tonight!

Miroir Noir
09-22-2012, 12:03 AM
What if I say "no" but they want me to walk the line or take a breathalizer after?

That depends on the context. You always have the right to remain silent and to not answer incriminating questions or to perform incriminating tests. But there's no guarantee that your silence, rightly or wrongly, will prevent your arrest.

Also to note: in Pot's video above, I'm not certain that the subject's refusal to answer questions would have resulted in nearly as favorable of a result if he had smelled of booze or demonstrated obvious physical signs of impairment.

TomAz
09-24-2012, 08:29 AM
NVhK7Z9HQJ0

Mugwog
09-24-2012, 10:11 AM
Also to note: in Pot's video above, I'm not certain that the subject's refusal to answer questions would have resulted in nearly as favorable of a result if he had smelled of booze or demonstrated obvious physical signs of impairment.
Yeah the person in the video sounded very sober and aware of the situation. I've been at check points before and been asked the same thing. Had my car reeking of weed too, but this is California, officer asked me if I had smoked any weed and I said, "Nope". He gave me a dirty look and let me go, he knew he couldn't get shit for weed in CA.

I wonder how many people have attempted that strategy impaired though....

nathanfairchild
09-24-2012, 10:43 AM
the drama continues...


First, Honey, I’m already more famous than you, I don't need your help. However, it would appear that you need mine....

Two weeks ago nobody in the country cared about what you had to say, -- now that you’ve been arrested it appears your entire career has been jump-started. Don’t worry Sweetie, I won't bill you...

Next, have you ever heard of Snoop, Willie or Armand Hammer? Maybe if you would read something besides your own press releases, you would have known BEFORE you got here, that if you come to Texas with dope, the cops will take your DOPE away and put YOU in jail...

Even though you and I only met briefly in the hallway, I don't know you but I'm sure you're an awesome and talented young woman and even though I'm not a fan of yours, I am sure there are thousands of them out there, and I’m sure that they would just as soon you get this all behind you and let you go back to what you do best—so my last piece of advice is simple "just shut-up and sing."

Sincerely

Rusty Fleming

nyarlathotoats
09-24-2012, 11:18 AM
the drama continues...

The fuck is that about? Douchebag party of one, your table is ready

algunz
09-24-2012, 11:21 AM
What the hell is that from?

bmack86
09-24-2012, 11:38 AM
That guy really needs to get disciplined. That is most definitely not acceptable behavior for a police officer in a criminal matter. I'm glad she released the letter, even if it might cause an old, fire-and-brimstone judge and the police department in the area to look less favorably on her than they already probably are.

Miroir Noir
09-24-2012, 11:39 AM
What the hell is that from?

The local sheriff! (http://pitchfork.com/news/47963-fiona-apple-gets-nasty-letter-from-texas-sheriff-department-telling-her-to-shut-up-and-sing/)

Who apparently lacks access to a spokesperson, civil attorney, or common sense.

Miroir Noir
09-24-2012, 11:41 AM
Lololol wait. This was the spokesperson.

bmack86
09-24-2012, 11:46 AM
Yeah, if I were representing Fiona Apple I'd want the whole thing thrown out since this guy seems to suggest that they are targeting touring musicians in an attempt to create high-profile busts to increase their notoriety.

amyzzz
09-24-2012, 11:54 AM
I hope she gets a good lawyer.

Miroir Noir
09-24-2012, 12:03 PM
I'll be interested to see the reports in this case, but at this point, these jokers may be looking at 1983 suit, too.

TomAz
09-24-2012, 12:12 PM
I don't know what that is. "1983 suit"

edit: I do now. Thank you Google.

Miroir Noir
09-24-2012, 12:15 PM
A federal civil rights suit filed against state or local officials for deprivation of one or more constitutional rights.

Alchemy
09-24-2012, 12:18 PM
When Fiona kicked the show off with that business, I was under the impression that the four individuals she was talking about were people at the show, like bloggers or something like that -- not the people who arrested her. It was all very vague and weird, but it seemed like she was saying that she heard people saying bad things about her just before the show.

bmack86
09-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Agreed Mitch. They're bungling this pretty thoroughly.

chairmenmeow47
09-25-2012, 10:34 AM
she's so adorably insane in that video. preach on to the notetakers!

faxman75
09-27-2012, 08:39 AM
It appears she is now going to use this incident to raise awareness about Sierra Blanca. I like it heh.

8118

http://www.texaslegacy.org/bb/narrators/addingtonbill.html

http://www.txpeer.org/toxictour/merco.html


This week the Texas Toxic Tour takes us to Sierra Blanca Texas, home to the nation's largest sewage sludge dump. The story examines how Sierra Blanca, a small town on the U.S./Mexico border, became the resting place for New York City's sewage. The video interview includes a meeting with several local residents concerned with unusual health problems. Additionally, this segment will focus on how the TNRCC ignored local health concerns and illegal dumping to support tripling New York's waste being dumped in the Lonestar State.

Originalbob
10-10-2012, 12:16 AM
This has become my go-to, emotionally conclusive, and defining album of this year. Played in my car at least once every week now.
That is all