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thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 11:35 AM
Oh sorry, allow me to clarify--I wasn't talking about hanging out as people. More as drugs.

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 11:39 AM
I will be doing my best to avoid all tripping people. It mostly annoys me now.
awwww.

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 11:41 AM
Amy--Do you plan on definitely having 2-ci for the fest? If so, we need to talk. Mutually beneficial exchanges?

Sadly, we ate up everything except one dose for us both (and we gave some out to friends). I'm hoping we can get some more, but I really don't know.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 11:46 AM
sorry

s'alright....

cheer up though - as i said earlier coachella is only 35 days away!



also, lastgreatman, yes i realized it was just a 'trading' relationship but i don't want to get into that inside the grounds....

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Oh well. Friday sucked last year because all we had was a couple ounces of weed to sell and didn't feel like going around asking people at the Sahara tent so we said fuck it and went back to the campsite. After everyone went to bed I went walking through the tents until 5 am, selling eighths and eventually finding the goods. This year I'll be there a day earlier and I'll hopefully have way more merchandise, so I'm guessing it won't be too difficult to track down a wide variety of glory. I just hope to not have to deal with too many freaky assholes.

codytwo
03-22-2007, 12:04 PM
One time I took acid at Sea of Dreams last year. My friend did, too. He jumped off a bridge and still can barely walk from when he landed on the pavement. Also, there was an old lady in the corner who was wearing oven mitts and I kept going back to look at her and try to figure out what was going on with her face. And I realized that I was scaring the shit out of her, because I was just staring at her. Either that or she didnt actually exist. Ahhh, New Years in San Francisco.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 12:20 PM
...

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 12:29 PM
Jesus Christ, Psy. Yeah, maybe you shouldn't do drugs. I've never heard of "total ego loss" as a term, but the dissolution of the ego has always seemed to be one of the advantages to hallucinogens, for me at least. When someone's on acid, they can be leveled with in a way that just isn't possible when there's a bunch of emotions and pride and shit involved. Some people are just more uncomfortable with being inconsequential than others, I suppose. I always found it kinda reassuring.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 12:34 PM
I've never had an experience that intense but I guess that's what eating a half ounce will do for ya...

Definitely the feeling of being outside of my body is common though. Whenever I do shrooms I feel like I'm in a movie.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 12:36 PM
...

J~$$$
03-22-2007, 12:48 PM
fuckin hippies.

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 12:51 PM
fuckin hippies.

Them's fighting words. Hippies give hallucinogens a bad rep.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 01:02 PM
...

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 01:03 PM
Hallucinogens are not for everybody. I've had two bad trips that I didn't come down from unitl I was given thorzine & locked up in a mental ward. I thought there were microphones & hidden cameras everywhere, & some secret goverment agencies were tracking me. I was having these delusions of grandeur thinking that the government was out to get me & I thought that the t.v. & media were secretly communicating with me. I was institutionalized both times, not fun. They strap you down in a bed & leave you there pretty much to piss & shit yrself. An entire week went by that I don't remember. Acid or hallucinogens in general are not an every day or every weekend kinda drug kids. Don't drop one hallucinogen while coming down from another thats how I fucked up. Everything you wanna know about drugs is at Errowids.com. Hallucinogens can be a spiritual rebirth or a horrible nightmare.Trip responsibly!

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 01:07 PM
...

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 01:07 PM
You mean www.erowid.com

let's not give the kids disinformation, now. =)

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 01:08 PM
You mean www.erowid.com

let's not give the kids disinformation, now. =)

Yeah man thats it. Sorry I haven't been to the sight in awhile.

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 01:16 PM
Those are some crazy stories. People please take note.

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 01:17 PM
Shoegazer, almost the same shit went down for me, except I wasn't in a lock-down psych-ward... Mine was much more low-key, but for awhile when I was in the emergency room and the hospital overnight, they placed a security guard to watch me at all times because (apparently) I thought the TV in my room was a bomb and I tried to throw it out the window... I also got the whole government conspiracy / monitoring / severe paranoia and delusions... Wild... Funny thing is, I hadn't done any drugs in over a week when I went crazy... Both times...

Yeah man I don't ever wanna achieve that level of crazy again, twice is enough for me. It was about a week after or less that I had done any drugs too! I tore my locker apart looking for hidden cameras & microphones the Priniciapal (a Catholic Priest) came & got me & they hauled my ass away. I thought all electric devices where interconnected so the powers that be could know what goes on in everybodys home. It was some X files type shit like the cable t.v. episode kinda but way before that episode came out. They had a guard watching me too the second time at the hospital. I swear on my life that a microchip or something came out of my tounge while in the hospital. A papilae on my tounge was inflamed so I raked my teeth across it and this white silicon type thing came out. I was going to pull it out of the sink but I thought the security guy was an agent so I turned on the water & let it go down the drain. I know I didn't dream it because the next morning I had a bloddy red dot on my tounge. My folks insisted it was something the dentist had put in me when I got a tooth knocked out by a baseball. I don't know what the fuck it was & I don't want to. Wild shit man totally wild! I swear on my life & the fate of the world that this happened.

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 01:20 PM
Acid and E are totally safe.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 01:23 PM
...

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 01:26 PM
I knew this guy who took a lot of acid and fried his brain. Now he just sits in his car on his lawn and pretends to be a state trooper who is at a speed trap. He pretend clocks the speed of passing cars.

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 01:28 PM
Those are some crazy stories. People please take note.

I'm lucky to have lived & am sane enough to tell the tale. A true one at that.

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 01:29 PM
I know this guy who took a lot of acid, and then later whenever he started taking any psychedelic, he would black out. So he can't trip anymore. :(

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 01:31 PM
I'm not saying don't take acid. I just would not do it more than once every few months and never more that 3 hits at a time.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 01:33 PM
...

samiksha
03-22-2007, 01:35 PM
she had a mental problem
she couldn't concentrate
she was her own delusion
she was her own mistake
she did a lot of acid to keep the voices down
and one day on her birthday they found her hangin upside down

ediger
03-22-2007, 01:43 PM
she had a mental problem
she couldn't concentrate
she was her own delusion
she was her own mistake
she did a lot of acid to keep the voices down
and one day on her birthday they found her hangin upside down

rhyming down with down is just... no.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 01:44 PM
...

Omar1
03-22-2007, 01:45 PM
try clown

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 01:49 PM
Is it just me or is half the fun in doing drugs just because they're illegal? If drugs were legal I probably woulnd't have done so much. I don't like legal drugs (pharmies). Then again if I could smoke them maybe I would.
Don't smoke crack & stay in school kids!

samiksha
03-22-2007, 01:50 PM
rhyming down with down is just... no.

tell that to jeff mangum

breakjaw
03-22-2007, 01:53 PM
she had a mental problem
she couldn't concentrate
she was her own delusion
she was her own mistake
she did a lot of acid to keep the voices down
and one day on her birthday they found her hangin a clown
Works for me

samiksha
03-22-2007, 01:54 PM
hahahahaha

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 01:57 PM
...

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 02:02 PM
Opiates feel 10,000 times better to me than acid or E ever will.

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 02:05 PM
Opiates make me feel good and more talkative, but they make me itchy and irritable as well. I can do without.

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 02:07 PM
...

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 02:08 PM
No. The fun in doing drugs is that they make you feel good/weird/painfree/whatever. I've had more intense experiences on illegal drugs, but I've had more fun and pleasurable experiences on the legal ones. (Yeah, I did a bunch of painkillers and benzos, etc...) The benefit to pharmaceuticals is that they're clean and predictible... The bad news is that, for the most part, they'll addict you for life, legally.

Yeah I know all that but theres something about people in general that makes them want to do what there not allowed to because its forbidden or deemed illegal by religion or government. O.K. I'll say 10 to 15% of the appeal or fun in doin them is that yr defying laws set by society. Might I add that in my town more people die from overdosing on pharmies than anything else. Yr playing Russian roulette by cocktailing pharmies kids.

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 02:08 PM
Opiates feel 10,000 times better to me than acid or E ever will.

Good real Opium Yes, Heroin No!

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 02:11 PM
Yeah I know all that but theres something about people in general that makes them want to do what there not allowed to because its forbidden or demmed illegal by religion or government. O.K. I'll say 10 to 15% of the appeal or fun in doin them is that yr defying laws set by society. Might I add that in my town more people die from overdosing on pharmies than anything else. Yr playing Russian roulette by cocktailing pharmies.

That's not how I feel personally. I would MUCH rather have them legal and a really good goverment-regulated grade. I've heard they sell shrooms in grocery stores in Amsterdam with LABELS on them that tell you exactly what they're known to do. I would prefer that.

jackstraw94086
03-22-2007, 02:12 PM
Yeah I know all that but theres something about people in general that makes them want to do what there not allowed to because its forbidden or deemed illegal by religion or government. O.K. I'll say 10 to 15% of the appeal or fun in doin them is that yr defying laws set by society. Might I add that in my town more people die from overdosing on pharmies than anything else. Yr playing Russian roulette by cocktailing pharmies kids.

I derive absolutely no pleasure from the fact that the chemicals I'm taking are illicit (nor do I like the diffuculties involved with procuring and paying for them that the illegality creates).

PsyGuyRy
03-22-2007, 02:14 PM
...

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 02:14 PM
Every once in a while I think "I wonder if these drugs were smuggled here up someone's ass?" Not a pleasant thought.

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 02:17 PM
That's not how I feel personally. I would MUCH rather have them legal and a really good goverment-regulated grade. I've heard they sell shrooms in grocery stores in Amsterdam with LABELS on them that tell you exactly what they're known to do. I would prefer that.

I would much rather they be legal too. Of course as a result you would have better regulation and better quality as well. I think alot of the mystique & appeal would disappear though for younger people & they probably wouldn't be into them as much. As far as them being legalized it will never happen because the government will never acknowledge the medical benefits of any of them which is the only reason they would ever legalize any of them.

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 02:20 PM
Drugs wont be legal because of the prison building system. Jail is big business.

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 02:20 PM
I never said anything about cocktailing pharms... It takes experience to do that... Just like cocktailing illegal drugs (i.e. hippie flipping, candy flipping, speed balling, etc...)

And yes, I will agree with you that for those people who like being anti-establishment and anti-authority, doing drugs can just be another expression of that. Telling people "no" usually makes them want to do it. However, most people actually just want to do the drugs. Period.

That wasn't meant so much for you as much as it is for everybody. Alot of my friends & associates have died from pharmies. Its really sad shit. You just don't know what effect yr gonna get with them. I'm not knocking anyone, to each their own n shit. Just be aware, smart, & careful ya'll.

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 02:21 PM
Drugs wont be legal because of the prison building system. Jail is big business.

Oh yeah I forgot about that too.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
Every once in a while I think "I wonder if these drugs were smuggled here up someone's ass?" Not a pleasant thought.
__________________


ewwwww.....now that's gonna be stuck in my head every time i'm high

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
I derive absolutely no pleasure from the fact that the chemicals I'm taking are illicit (nor do I like the diffuculties involved with procuring and paying for them that the illegality creates).

Must just be me then. I'm such an anarchist. Down with Society!

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
Sorry.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 02:33 PM
s'ok ;)

lets just hope my next batch doesn't smell like bum

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 02:44 PM
Several months ago one night--coincidentally enough, a night I was on acid--I had this vision for how drugs could become legalized. There's really endless positive arguments to be for it, but the real reason you might be able to sell it in America is that capitalism will eventually win out. Drugs are becoming bigger and bigger business every year, and let's face facts: our side is winning the war on drugs. Weed will almost certainly become legal in our lifetime, if only now because the medicinal marijuana establishment is proving America could easily be turning a profit off of it, rather than shipping lots of our money overseas to South America. The worldwide drug trade is estimated at 500 billion dollars, and if America legalized it (and I mean everything, fuck saying "this" is okay but "that" is not) we could easily double that number and take at least half of it for ourselves. It would instanteously create one of the five largest industries in the world, probably breaking the top three and settling in behind technology after only a couple years.

Some day I'm going to sell this to America. And I'll end up the figurehead of one of the new drug companies. It'll be a glorious age, friends. All substances will be in the form of pure chemical compounds, with thorough research, testing, and analysis, FDA regulation... alright, I'm getting a boner over here, I'll stop now.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 02:47 PM
can i be your VP of Testing?

mountmccabe
03-22-2007, 02:53 PM
Some day I'm going to sell this to America. And I'll end up the figurehead of one of the new drug companies. It'll be a glorious age, friends. All substances will be in the form of pure chemical compounds, with thorough research, testing, and analysis, FDA regulation... alright, I'm getting a boner over here, I'll stop now.

Anyway FDA regulation of most drugs wouldn't leave them any cheaper. The purity and identification part would be way positive, though.

Though, honestly, based on how the US gov is dealing with the tobacco industry, do you really want them with their hands in other drugs?

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 02:58 PM
Anyway FDA regulation of most drugs wouldn't leave them any cheaper. The purity and identification part would be way positive, though.

Though, honestly, based on how the US gov is dealing with the tobacco industry, do you really want them with their hands in other drugs?

Who said anything about FDA regulation making them cheaper? That was a complete non sequitor, you confused me.

And what exactly about the handling of the tobacco industry? Personally, I think we should legalize it and make 50% of the prices go directly to tax. This is the other leg of the plan, where things really get interesting--suppose drugs became a 1 trillion dollar a year industry, with 500 billion going directly into taxes. Do you realize what we could do with that money? How much might people's attitudes to legal drugs change if it meant that we could have universal healthcare, or better yet just cut their taxes in half? I certainly don't object, feel free to vice tax the shit out of me just let me live my life already. Let the addicts pay for all social services. If you could get the numbers up high enough to completely eliminate income tax, I think you could sell this to the public. Thoughts?

jackstraw94086
03-22-2007, 02:59 PM
Anyway FDA regulation of most drugs wouldn't leave them any cheaper. The purity and identification part would be way positive, though.

Though, honestly, based on how the US gov is dealing with the tobacco industry, do you really want them with their hands in other drugs?

the tobacco lobby was founded and is still largely based on old money, and more importantly, geographical politics and economics (kind of like slavery was back in the day). I agree that the government wouldn't be stellar at regulating hard drugs, but not necessarily for the same reasons as tobacco.

D.C.'s one big coke party anyway.

mountmccabe
03-22-2007, 03:02 PM
Who said anything about FDA regulation making them cheaper? That was a complete non sequitor, you confused me.

OK, I guess that was a bad assumption on my part. Sorry.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 03:14 PM
legalization is one of those things that just can't seem to get over the hump...up here in Canada we were soooo close to finally de-criminalizing weed but then the govt changed and the legislation got shelved...

i 100% agree on the potential tax windfall there would be by legalizing though....it would be amazing

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 03:19 PM
I wrote a huge (and good) paper on this last quarter. PM if you want to read it.

That's funny, I originally started doing research on this for a class as well. It was a debate class, and the professor was a serious bitch who wasn't a quarter as smart as she thought. Now debate is something I'm pretty fucking good at, not so much because of any of my own doing but because my dad was an incredibly smart fellow who graduated top of his class at Harvard Law back in the 70's, when Harvard Law School was kind of the undisputed best law school in the country. And he was a gratingly argumentative fucker, so all of us kids ended up being capable of running logical rings around most folks, and certainly professors at half-assed universities. But I digress...

The assignment was to prepare both sides of an argument, and I chose the legalization of all drugs. First week I'd argue pro, my parter con, then next week switch, but naturally my partner fucked it completely up so in order to salvage the debate we switched--first week I'd argue that drugs should be kept illegal, next week reverse. The fucked up thing is that in all my research there were simply NO good arguments for keeping drugs illegal. Drug convictions are responsible for 3/5 of all prisoners, drugs provide the vast majority of funding for organized crime, the health issues related to drugs are more caused by their unregulated state than the nature of the chemicals themselves, the societal ills are again caused more by the fact that they're illicit than the chemicals, and it just went on and on.

So I started off trying to half-heartedly argue that drugs should be illegal and the professor started tearing into me for all the wrong reasons. "Don't you know that they cut drugs with jet fuel? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?" Shit like that, when the bitch hadn't interrupted any of the absolutely HORRIBLE presentations that preceded me. So we got into it in a serious way, and in the course of the debate she got so pissed off that at one point she just went, "Listen, I have an PhD, you're not smarter than me, okay?" And real cool I just said (if you've ever studied debate, you'll get this), "Well ma'am, that right there is an argument from authority, ain't it? Completely invalid, we went over this last week." The whole class laughed at her, she said something else, I called her a cunt and dropped the class.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 03:26 PM
that is an awesome story..nice work lastgreatman

i luckily had the opposite happen to me...i wrote 2 or 3 papers on legalization while in university and each time the comments on my papers were all like "if only this could happen...", etc....

mountmccabe
03-22-2007, 03:28 PM
I would have to go back and read up more the dealings between the US and the tobacco industry to state anything specific. Your memory can go to shit even if you don't do drugs.

In general, though, when there's a lot of money involved things get complicated.

My other main thought is that the political climate would never allow any significant decriminalization even if it involved hundreds of billions of dollars heading to the US government.

Well, that and the idea that if such drugs did become FDA regulated and got more expensive (due to having to meet standards and the high tax rate) there'd still be a black market. And people crossing to border towns. And shipping stuff in from other countries.


I don't mean to be a spoilsport or anything; this is, in general, something I wuold support... I just don't see it as ever happening.

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 03:38 PM
I would have to go back and read up more the dealings between the US and the tobacco industry to state anything specific. Your memory can go to shit even if you don't do drugs.

In general, though, when there's a lot of money involved things get complicated.

My other main thought is that the political climate would never allow any significant decriminalization even if it involved hundreds of billions of dollars heading to the US government.

Well, that and the idea that if such drugs did become FDA regulated and got more expensive (due to having to meet standards and the high tax rate) there'd still be a black market. And people crossing to border towns. And shipping stuff in from other countries.


I don't mean to be a spoilsport or anything; this is, in general, something I wuold support... I just don't see it as ever happening.

There is no political climate outside of capitalism. Money drives and dictates all things, in particular politics.

As far as becoming more expensive, it's all speculation at this point but it's really hard to say whether the price would increase or drop. Certainly a large percentage of all illicit drugs current prices is due to the illegal nature. It's a supply and demand function combined with risk/reward--something illegal automatically carries a higher cost, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a point in selling it. The best parallel to draw is alcohol during the prohibition era, when prices skyrocketed, no? And is there a black market for alcohol today? Maybe, but totally negligible.

Hannahrain
03-22-2007, 03:47 PM
People wouldn't have to charge more to cover bail, either...

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 03:50 PM
I'd just like to mention that I'm so proud a thread about ecstasy has gone 11 pages.

Rock.

mountmccabe
03-22-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm looking at large new, clean, expensive pharma facilities. I'm looking at validations and studies and wanting to stop thinking about such things because I'm not at work.

But I'll agree, we're all just speculating at this point.

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm looking at large new, clean, expensive pharma facilities. I'm looking at validations and studies and wanting to stop thinking about such things because I'm not at work.

But I'll agree, we're all just speculating at this point.

Hmm, might be a point. Legal drugs are as expensive as shit. But I say we could bypass this since our products technically won't be medicinal whatsoever. They're a vice, not a cure to anything, so the restrictions and costs associated with them ought to be significantly less than the current drug establishment. Maybe? Plus the healthcare system are all fucking crooks.

Hannahrain
03-22-2007, 03:58 PM
Since when is the entertainment industry not as crooked as the healthcare industry?

People pay ten dollars to go look at light projection for two hours.

mountmccabe
03-22-2007, 04:03 PM
Hmm, might be a point. Legal drugs are as expensive as shit. But I say we could bypass this since our products technically won't be medicinal whatsoever. They're a vice, not a cure to anything, so the restrictions and costs associated with them ought to be significantly less than the current drug establishment. Maybe? Plus the healthcare system are all fucking crooks.

This is a good point. If you're not making medicinal claims then it's a different situation entirely.

Tobacco isn't regulated anything like the way prescription drugs are.

Hannahrain
03-22-2007, 04:06 PM
You also have to take into account price-wise that drug companies have to be prepared to cover their asses if (and when) something goes wrong with their product.

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 04:26 PM
Wouldn't competition keep the prices low?

Hannahrain
03-22-2007, 04:29 PM
In terms of lawsuits. Like when they found out that paxil can either make you less depressed, or make you kill yourself.

If something were to happen with a drug, recreational notwithstanding, they would have to be ready for the inevitable class-actions.

amyzzz
03-22-2007, 04:31 PM
Heh. Paxil would only "make you kill yourself" because when you're seriously depressed, you have no energy to do anything. When you start feeling slightly less depressed, you have enough energy to kill yourself. I learned that in Psychology 101. I don't think it really has anything to do with Paxil.

Hannahrain
03-22-2007, 04:37 PM
Regardless, people love their lawsuits. Whether or not it actually has to do with paxil or what have you, there are people out there who will take any side effect to court. The drug companies (and any other company providing a dangerous product) has to be prepared in case something goes wrong.

bballarl
03-22-2007, 04:55 PM
Ask your doctor about Cialis.

thelastgreatman
03-22-2007, 04:57 PM
Alcohol doesn't face any such lawsuits, why should heroin?

And Hannah, those light projections cost upwards of 200 million dollars before the prints have even been made. They're a completely optional service. The healthcare industry is one of the most profitable businesses in the world, a large portion of it coming from people who need the shit to live. Also, doctors are generally money-grubbing bastards who regularly advocate procedures geared more towards their wallets than their patients' needs. My doctor buddies agree.

bballarl
03-22-2007, 05:01 PM
If you want answers, ask thelastgreatman.

Hannahrain
03-22-2007, 05:08 PM
Alcohol lawsuits (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=lawsuits+against+alcohol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)

SFChrissy
03-22-2007, 05:44 PM
Saying that MDMA carries with it all the dangers of the base methamphetamine is not accurate. MDMA does not give you tooth caries--meth does that because when snorted the highly corrosive chemicals used to make it end up swishing around in your mouth, which doesn't happen with MDMA except on the rare occasions people snort it, and even then I've never heard of pure usage resulting in tooth rot.

MDMA does kinda fuck with your stomach, causing a great deal of nausea in most instances and frequently resulting in vomiting, particularly with excessive repeated usage which can eat your teeth away. Stomach acids are one of the most efficent enamel-eating substances around.

I have a significant number of friends who've taken hundreds of e pills. I myself would have to estimate my lifetime intake as being on the high end of the 500-1000 range, no foolin'. Including one very ill-advised period where I stayed rolled on 6-10 pills a day for 60 days straight. Coming down from that nearly killed me--it was a kind of miserable that's hard to fathom now.

Lasting effects? Well I admit my stomach got a bit tussled from all that, but there was also a great deal of opiate use immediately following the e period, so it's hard to say what made me throw up all the time for a couple years. Mostly it was the opiates, I think, although to this day every time I take some e I WILL be vomiting at some point. Of course, I'm a pretty extreme case.

Memory loss is for real, although I've always thought that what really happens is it's hard to remember shit that happened when you were fucked up all the time not because the drugs have permanently eroded the part of your brain that holds memories, but more because it's hard to remember things that happened when you were all fucked up. Amnesi-E (as I like to call it) is very real--as the years have gone on I find my memory worse and worse every time I'm on pills, to the point where nowadays it's not uncommong for me to forget what I was saying in mid-sentence 10 times in the course of a four-hour roll. At the same time, I don't care so much.

Your serotonin receptors really do repair themselves. As with all drugs, it's mostly an issue of treating your body and brain properly. MDMA effects you for about six days after the roll is over--rolling back-to-back days is not so great. Taking Wellbutrin when you're coming down will make the day after infinitely more pleasurable by minimizing the serotonin drought. MDMA casualties (both actual casualties and just people who've turned to shit) are depressing, but it happens with all drugs and I think we could all agree that E is generally less horrific than heroin, meth, crack, and some of the other baddies. Don't forget that alcohol destroys your body in a truly vicious fashion too--watch someone suffering from cirrhosis sometime, it ain't pretty.

I, for one, will most definitely be rolling for Coachella, probably Friday as Interpol And Bjork back-to-back means a sonic impact that when combined with six or seven pills will cause every cell of my body to orgasm for several hours. Not to sound like a degenerate addict (too late), but the difference between a concert sober and a concert on e is equivalent to the difference between a concert and listening to a CD in your car.

My body will just have to man up and fucking deal with it. This is Coachella, dammit.

First of all, your statement on tooth decay from Meth is inacurate...tooth decay associated to meth is from methamphetamine draining your body's level's of calcium...of course we have calcium in our bones and teeth but our bodies also need calcium for muscle contraction...when meth has depleated your muscle tissue it goes for the bones and the teeth...the teeth are more prone to this action...

As for your 6-10 pills a day for 60 days...that's a hard one to swallow...you must have been total rigor. your body's neurotransmitters were all probably shot...or the E you were eating was bunkety bunk bunk...

Im not even gonna bother...

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Or the pills were so weak he had to eat 6 to 10 to achieve the buzz of maybe 2 or 3. Pressies are bullshit & pretty much always have been. Pepperinol sassafras whatever you wanna call it is what you wanna take if anything at all, good luck finding it though.

vinylmartyr
03-22-2007, 05:58 PM
yeah thats a bunch of drugs

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 06:02 PM
Yeah how the fuck do yo support a habbit like that? Or rather how do you function long enough to sell drugs to support yr habbit?

bartelby
03-22-2007, 06:12 PM
in his defence, E is the easiest drug to function on so its not implausible

Mr.Nipples
03-22-2007, 06:19 PM
remember...keep drugs fun...KEEP THEM ILLEGAL

shoegazer76
03-22-2007, 06:48 PM
in his defence, E is the easiest drug to function on so its not implausible

I have to disagree & say that marijuana is the easiest drug to function on.

crazzz2007
03-22-2007, 06:57 PM
And what exactly about the handling of the tobacco industry? Personally, I think we should legalize it and make 50% of the prices go directly to tax.

are you kidding? at least 90% of the price you pay for tobacco goes towards taxes.

bballarl
03-22-2007, 07:05 PM
Dude, he knows all about drugs/alcohol/tobacco. Leave him be.

bartelby
03-22-2007, 07:30 PM
I have to disagree & say that marijuana is the easiest drug to function on.

yes, of course...i guess i meant to exempt that

full on idle
03-22-2007, 08:08 PM
I like thelastgreatman he seems smart.

J~$$$
03-22-2007, 08:14 PM
he is DEA.

full on idle
03-22-2007, 08:14 PM
I don't take drugs.

J~$$$
03-22-2007, 08:15 PM
ya I just said all that stuff to fit in, I NEED TO BE LIKED!

full on idle
03-22-2007, 08:16 PM
Jesus likes you.

J~$$$
03-22-2007, 08:17 PM
I heard he wants me.

full on idle
03-22-2007, 08:17 PM
In the biblical sense?

J~$$$
03-22-2007, 08:18 PM
Ya sure. the "biblical" thing........im hot.

J~$$$
03-22-2007, 08:19 PM
OKAY I JUST WANT TO BE LIKED!

bartelby
03-22-2007, 08:31 PM
ok ok, you're liked

Benis23
03-22-2007, 11:15 PM
you make it sound as though e is more hardcore than coke. i don't get people who do coke but draw the line at e.

ecstacy fucks with your brain way more than coke does. thats probably why.

xbnmx
03-23-2007, 12:28 AM
If you think good pressies arent being stamped out, you're wrong. If you think shit molly isn't being cut down, you're also wrong.

jackstraw94086
03-23-2007, 12:46 AM
In the biblical sense?
you're thinking "know", as it "Where are the men that have come in to thee tonight? bring them out to us that we may know them."


go with god, my child.

KiwiCoachella
03-23-2007, 02:07 AM
the key to life is moderation kids. remember that and you'll be fine. :)

yes indeed, everything in moderation.

Including moderation.

nothingman00
03-23-2007, 03:34 AM
If you think good pressies arent being stamped out, you're wrong. If you think shit molly isn't being cut down, you're also wrong.

If good means 40-50% MDMA, some fillers, some binding agents, then sure, there are fantastic pills being pressed. Seriously, the last really good X I got was in Ibiza and it was 7 years ago. Pure MDMA is great, but these "pressies" are crap for the most part.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 10:02 AM
Well, I've had fun on them. E was the first illicit substance I'd ever tried, and boy, was that a trip my first time.

shoegazer76
03-23-2007, 10:34 AM
If you think good pressies arent being stamped out, you're wrong. If you think shit molly isn't being cut down, you're also wrong.

I'm not talkin bout the shit molly you get! Yr thinkin white powdery molly that can be cut with anything. I'm talking bout pepperinol that smells like black licorice & comes in either brown powder form or sharded crystals that are a brownish yellowish tint. I bought a 2 gram rock of it for $300 at a rave once. It was the best ever!!!! I'm gald I don't have access to it anymore or I'd probly be an Etard. I'd never seen it rocked before or after. I bet when you get the good pressies yr talkin bout they always have brown speckles in the pressie huh? I bet there sassafrass if so. Smell them. You'll know if you ever get this stuff as soon as you drop it. I've said it before & I'll say it again, its the only ecstacy worth dropping. A tenth of a gram of that will have any accomplished Etard completly satisfied. Why do pressies come in so many colors now if they aren't cut with DXM, K, or amphetamines? I've unknowingly taken K rolls before & it is the worst experience ever. Thank god I was at home. Contrary to what people say K is still relatively inexpensive especially if its Keta Chloride or lab K instead of fort dodge pharmaceutical grade.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 11:32 AM
Hannah--none of those alcohol lawsuits seem to be too successful. Just a quick scroll on the page only showed a couple against the actual alcohol establishment, one which was pending with no indication of how successful it would be, one that was dismissed, and one about taxes. All I'm saying is you don't hear about alcohol getting sued for damages the way tobacco did a while back.

SFChrissy--Schools of thought on how meth erodes your teeth varies a bit, I personally throw my hat in with the camp that attributes it mostly to chemicals because I personally experienced the absolutely astounding fast appearance of shitloads of cavities. Litium, muriatic, and sulfuric acids, ether, red phosphorus, and lye are all key ingredients in the manufacturing of meth, and if you look into it you'll find that the rate of tooth decay is vastly higher in the smoking contingent than it is in the snorting contingent, but more importantly that those who shoot meth don't experience that rapid decay nearly at all compared to their brethren, hence my conviction. But even if one didn't accept that, calcium loss is nowhere in any of the research I've done. Other theories generally point to excessive dry mouth, meth fiends' penchant for sugary sodas, and grinding as being the primary causes. If you can find documentation that says otherwise I'd like to read it.

Now as far as that ecstasy binge goes, it did in fact happen and it sucked. The pills were mitsubishis, tested at 90 mg of MDMA, so fairly quality. This was 99, you see, when ecstasy still existed in true form. Mitsubishis, yellow mostly, if anyone happened to be in the New York pill scene during the summer of 99. As far as how it's possible to take that many, well have you ever dosed several days back to back? It's really not that difficult to eat a SHITLOAD of pills. As with pretty much all trips, your tolerance is instantly escalated as soon as you come down. Ecstasy works because it boosts serotonin, endorphin, and dopamine levels, you experience a comedown because after that boost there is a drought, but if you take more pills it will boost again, just creating an even larger drought after the fact. You can keep doing this for a long time but you have to continually take more and more, obviously, and by the end 10+ pills will only get you a semi-decent roll. It's not like I'm the first one to go on an e binge, for fuck's sake, I've known a few people who spent several thousand dollars on ecstasy in a month. In some cases, the several thousand went to me. =)

Shoegazer--pepperinol sassafras? Never heard of this, explain? As for how I supported the habit, eating just under a hundred pills a week at a few dollars per pill is hardly difficult when you're selling at least a hundred a week at 20.

Crazzz--90%? I don't think that's accurate. 50, sure, maybe 60 or 70 in New York, but 90? I'll bet you 10 cartons that that ain't accurate.

And as for good "pressies," yeah, they barely exist anymore. In my experience 99 was the last good year, in 2000 the DEA started really cracking down and things went to shit. I remember the day they pull a 12 million pill shipment in down at the Port Authority, nearly fucking cried. I've also had a lot of molly that wasn't that great and cost like 30 dollars a dose, so you're kinda fucked either way.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 11:38 AM
liver

bartelby
03-23-2007, 11:44 AM
downer

bballarl
03-23-2007, 11:44 AM
Elephant.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 11:51 AM
white stripes

chunk
03-23-2007, 11:55 AM
i stopped doing it a while back, but i do remember mitsubishis being very popular in central europe in '99.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 12:56 PM
Also, Vinyl, do you have any history of painkillers? Long-term effects of ecstasy are still coming in, but to the best of my knowledge acetaminophen and alcohol are much more likely liver-killers.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:04 PM
Ecstasy is the 2nd most common cause of liver injury for people under for 25 in this doctors hospital.

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/165/7/917

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:05 PM
Is you research more in depth than his?

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:08 PM
The clinical picture in such cases is varied. On the whole, it is relatively mild, resembling a viral hepatitis, with jaundice, an enlarged tender liver, an increased bleeding tendency, raised liver enzyme levels in the blood and a biopsy picture of acute hepatitis that is not in any sense diagnostic of MDMA toxicity. Spontaneous recovery usually occurs over a period of a few weeks to many months, but in chronic users of MDMA there may be repeated attacks of hepatitis.103,104,107,108,109,110,111,112 Several authors have suggested that in any case of repeated acute hepatitis in a young person, the use of MDMA should be suspected as a possible cause. Andreu and colleagues103 found that in their hospital "ecstasy" was the second most common cause of liver injury in patients under the age of 25 years.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:10 PM
OH wait theres more.

The picture can be much more severe, however, progressing rapidly to a fulminating liver failure that proves fatal unless the patient is fortunate enough to receive a liver transplant.107,113,114 At intermediate grades of severity, there may be a prolonged course with slow recovery of liver function103 but possible permanent fibrosis of the liver.115 In one series of 7 cases,114 one patient died, one recovered after a liver transplant and 5 recovered spontaneously. The largest series of ecstasy-related transplants reviewed so far is described by Brauer and colleagues,116 who found 9 cases in the literature plus one of their own; of these, 4 died after the transplant while 6 survived, having either fully or partially recovered. A newer and perhaps less drastic procedure is auxiliary liver transplantation, in which the recipient's own liver is left in place but a donor liver is inserted as well, in order to carry out the necessary liver functions while the recipient's own liver gradually recovers, at which time the auxiliary liver is removed.117,118 At least 3 patients with "ecstasy"-induced acute liver failure have been treated in this way.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 01:12 PM
Nevermind.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:13 PM
Other than that stuff E is great for your liver.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:13 PM
Is you research more in depth than his?

Is whose more in depth than whose?

And here's the relevant material from that link. Good stuff. "A high proportion of the case reports of serious MDMA toxicity include the observation that the patients were jaundiced. Various explanations have been offered for this effect, including the possibility of an allergic drug reaction, a toxic contaminant in the individual batch of drug, or a secondary effect of hyperpyrexia,103,104 which will be described later. However, the most probable explanation relates to the pathways of metabolism of the drug. As noted earlier, MDMA and related drugs are largely metabolized in the liver by the cytochrome P450 variety designated CYP2D6.23 The immediate product of this reaction is then processed further by other enzymes into a variety of secondary products, some of which are highly reactive with glutathione. A marked decrease in the level of free glutathione permits a series of biochemical changes (massive influx of calcium, oxidative change in the cell-membrane lipids, and so on) that result in cell death.104,105,106

The clinical picture in such cases is varied. On the whole, it is relatively mild, resembling a viral hepatitis, with jaundice, an enlarged tender liver, an increased bleeding tendency, raised liver enzyme levels in the blood and a biopsy picture of acute hepatitis that is not in any sense diagnostic of MDMA toxicity. Spontaneous recovery usually occurs over a period of a few weeks to many months, but in chronic users of MDMA there may be repeated attacks of hepatitis.103,104,107,108,109,110,111,112 Several authors have suggested that in any case of repeated acute hepatitis in a young person, the use of MDMA should be suspected as a possible cause. Andreu and colleagues103 found that in their hospital "ecstasy" was the second most common cause of liver injury in patients under the age of 25 years.

The picture can be much more severe, however, progressing rapidly to a fulminating liver failure that proves fatal unless the patient is fortunate enough to receive a liver transplant.107,113,114 At intermediate grades of severity, there may be a prolonged course with slow recovery of liver function103 but possible permanent fibrosis of the liver.115 In one series of 7 cases,114 one patient died, one recovered after a liver transplant and 5 recovered spontaneously. The largest series of ecstasy-related transplants reviewed so far is described by Brauer and colleagues,116 who found 9 cases in the literature plus one of their own; of these, 4 died after the transplant while 6 survived, having either fully or partially recovered. A newer and perhaps less drastic procedure is auxiliary liver transplantation, in which the recipient's own liver is left in place but a donor liver is inserted as well, in order to carry out the necessary liver functions while the recipient's own liver gradually recovers, at which time the auxiliary liver is removed.117,118 At least 3 patients with "ecstasy"-induced acute liver failure have been treated in this way."

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:17 PM
Sorry, I was reading the page while you were citing, didn't see you'd already posted it.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 01:17 PM
Ok, you've convinced me. I won't roll at Coachella.



(actually, my husband just declared this morning we won't roll--we'll just see what kind of psychedelics we can come up with)

PsyGuyRy
03-23-2007, 01:19 PM
...

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 01:20 PM
I've only been using illicit substances for a little over a year, so I'm still in the experimental phase. Excuse me all to hell. I'm a late bloomer in just about everything.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:23 PM
Dude take your E. Just don't take it 4 times a month.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:24 PM
Sorry my liver is just fucked so its hard to get this off my mind.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:25 PM
Its from my total drug use not just E. I have not taken E in at least 5 years.

PsyGuyRy
03-23-2007, 01:26 PM
...

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:27 PM
Dude take your E. Just don't take it 4 times a month.

Word. Besides, isn't your liver the one organ that can repair itself? Not saying that it doesn't suck in your case, Vinyl, but I don't think any studies suggest that this kind of toxicity or neurotoxicity occur with repeated abuse. Taking breaks is always key.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 01:29 PM
Besides, isn't your liver the one organ that can repair itself?

Yeah. I had been drinking heavy until last week. I am already starting to feel the swelling go down.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Comparatively, I was a late bloomer too... But we are those that are most at risk for overdoing it... Hence, my experiences.

Sorry, I know I can be a bit of a "buzzkill" or whatever, but bad shit can and does happen very often. Coachella is about music, not drugs... I just want to look out for people so they don't make the mistakes I made. Have fun, be careful, but really think about why you're going to Coachella: Is it for the music? Or is it for the drugs? Or is it for the music + the drugs?

Unless there's drugs, I honestly don't care to be around strangers, particularly not when it involves heat, walking, crowds (fucking hate crowds), standing, dealing with assholes, et cetera. Also concerts really don't do much for me without some enhancement. Sad/pathetic? Perhaps to some, works for me though.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 01:36 PM
Comparatively, I was a late bloomer too... But we are those that are most at risk for overdoing it... Hence, my experiences.

Sorry, I know I can be a bit of a "buzzkill" or whatever, but bad shit can and does happen very often. Coachella is about music, not drugs... I just want to look out for people so they don't make the mistakes I made. Have fun, be careful, but really think about why you're going to Coachella: Is it for the music? Or is it for the drugs? Or is it for the music + the drugs?
I think I'm old enough that I'm more cautious about drug taking than I may have been 12 years ago when I was soberly clubbing 2-3 nights a week. I go for the music, and lately I've been getting into drugs that really enhance the music, so it's a better experience all around. If I'm not enjoying the music experience itself anymore because the drugs are taking away from that, then I probably won't do them anymore at concerts. (I've only rolled twice at shows anyway).

PsyGuyRy
03-23-2007, 01:37 PM
...

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 01:39 PM
Unless there's drugs, I honestly don't care to be around strangers, particularly not when it involves heat, walking, crowds (fucking hate crowds), standing, dealing with assholes, et cetera. Also concerts really don't do much for me without some enhancement. Sad/pathetic? Perhaps to some, works for me though.
This is a good point too. My husband can get really anxious in crowd settings, and the drugs can help him unwind a bit. The crowds don't bother me at all--I've been going to concerts for 17 years now, and I used to ALWAYS go up front. I admit I kind of use the drugs as an excuse to get him to go! ;)

J~$$$
03-23-2007, 01:42 PM
Amy how do you feel about your kids and future drug use? If they choose too? I just want to know a parents standpoint, because I dont know how I would feel about it. I guess i'll see when the time comes but just kind of wanted to get your input.

PsyGuyRy
03-23-2007, 01:42 PM
...

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:46 PM
You are obviously a much bigger fan of drugs and altered states of conciousness than you are of music. And your drug use compensates for other socio-psychological problems. As was the case with me. (This was for thelastgreatman.)

Well, I mean drugs have always been one of my two biggest passions along with comedy, but it's really hard to say where art in general places there. It's not necessarily that I don't like music enough, I fucking love music. But I do get extremely uncomfortable in crowd-type situations, and almost every concert I go to it seems like I spend at least part of it trying not to think about turning around and punching some asshole in the throat because they won't stop going "whoooo" or throwing their arms in the air and inadvertently coming in contact with the back of my head. Sociopath? Well probably, at least in part. The other problem with concerts is the ratio I've experienced of what I felt were good performances to bad performances. If it's a shitty venue, or perhaps a shitty band, a lot of the time it doesn't even seem to sound as good as it does on the CD, which is disappointing. Unless... drugs! Then it all becomes kinda irrelevant. All I'm saying is, loving music and loving concerts isn't necessarily the same thing, especially if you're particularly unfond of drunk people, general douchebags, and standing for long periods of time.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:51 PM
Drugs don't alleviate the social-anxiety / crowd problem... They exacerbate it, because the more you use drugs to be around people, the more you NEED them in order to be around people... Eventually, you may avoid crowds altogether in the absence of drugs because the anxiety is just too much to handle... Just the way an alcoholic avoids locations / people where alcohol will not be present.

Dealing with anxiety without drugs may suck, but at least the condition doesn't worsen - as it does when you mask the problem by using drugs.

Always be wary of projecting your experiences as being natural for people in general. Before I did drugs, I hated those situations. They made me fucking miserable. Then I started doing drugs, and now I don't care to be in them without drugs because I know I'll be fucking miserable. It's kinda difficult to establish causality to drugs.

PsyGuyRy
03-23-2007, 01:52 PM
...

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 01:57 PM
Amy how do you feel about your kids and future drug use? If they choose too? I just want to know a parents standpoint, because I dont know how I would feel about it. I guess i'll see when the time comes but just kind of wanted to get your input.
Tough question. Maybe when they're about 12/14 and they start asking questions about it or bringing home propaganda from their schools, we'll discuss it with them. The problem is, even if we allow our kids to do certain things, they can't have their friends over at my house and do it together because then their friends' parents could file charges against us or something.

I haven't really thought this over yet--I may just tell my kids "wait until you're 18 and out of my house." I certainly don't want my kids using any drugs before they're in high school (and that includes smoking and drinking). But then if they ARE doing something at someone else's house, I don't want them driving home! Ugh. And I don't even wanna think about them rolling (or drinking) with friends--guys could so easily take advantage of them. On one hand, I would like to be candid with them and tell them which kinds of drugs do the most harm and which ones aren't so bad, but I don't want them turning around and using MY drug use as a threat against me when I don't do something they want me to do. I can always try to talk to them about it without mentioning what we've done.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 01:57 PM
Crutches, addictions... kind of make up life. Life is full of addictions, it's what keep us going. People become addicted to drugs, to food, to sports, to TV, and to other people. A lot of the people I see in "love," including some of my own experiences, are more accurately described as addictions. Life needs routine.

jackstraw94086
03-23-2007, 01:58 PM
life without drugs isn't longer, it just feels longer.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 02:01 PM
Crutches, addictions... kind of make up life. Life is full of addictions, it's what keep us going. People become addicted to drugs, to food, to sports, to TV, and to other people. A lot of the people I see in "love," including some of my own experiences, are more accurately described as addictions. Life needs routine.
I'm addicted to the message board.

And if one of my top 15 favorite bands comes to town, I HAVE to get tickets, and I will use every manipulation trick in the book to get my husband to say yes. I am deeply ashamed of this.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 02:08 PM
Can I get a witness?

I've gone through numerous different drug addictions, and nowadays I just consider myself a "drugs addict," not a drug addict. There's not one single chemical dependency I haven't been able to kick on my own--e, heroin, speed, crack, benzos (probably the worst withdrawl of them all)--and thus my life has been meted out in a series of addictions. That's how I reference things that happened in the past. 9/11 isn't just 9/11, it's when those planes collapsed while we'd been on mushrooms for 12 hours (yeah, it was weird).

Is this a bad thing? I'm not sure. I know I dig it, which I suppose is all that really matters.

codytwo
03-23-2007, 02:59 PM
One time I took a bunch of mushrooms and almost descended into madness thanks to Boards of Canada, then laughed my ass off at the coda from the end of Layla for about four hours (it was looping) and then spent three hours in a dark room with my friend describing the rape and murder of our other friend's mom at the hands of a tribe of apemen from the primordial ooze.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 03:04 PM
benzos (probably the worst withdrawl of them all)

Nothing is worse than Methadone.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 03:07 PM
Nothing is worse than Methadone.

Trueness, from what I've heard at least. I was never on the program. Methadone IS responsible for my only trip to the hospital though, but it was still fucking bullshit.

Balthazar B
03-23-2007, 03:40 PM
So, being a fellow from a foreign land (and used to these "pressies" of which you speak), I should be sourcing E capulets for my Californian disco experience ? In 'straya "pressies" are the norm and have, for the most part, been pretty damn rad...

bring on the disco !

BoneDaddy
03-23-2007, 06:16 PM
Amy how do you feel about your kids and future drug use? If they choose too? I just want to know a parents standpoint, because I dont know how I would feel about it. I guess i'll see when the time comes but just kind of wanted to get your input.

This is a tough one for me. I'd like to be honest with my kids to get through all of the BS propaganda, but my wife will want to be- just say no. She used to party, but not anymore.

One big subject I will focus on is how old they should be if they choose to try something. At least 19 or 20. And I'll let them know the dangers of legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol. I never used tobacco thank god, but alcohol is still fucking with me.

Don't know yet if I will tell them of my experiences during the first talk. I'm thinking I will probably share my stories when they are in their 20's. That is, if they want to hear. I've mainly had good times on drugs, but there were a couple bad. It's interesting to hear the stories of thinking the government was after you. I went through the same thing 2 years ago. It was REALLY BAD. Pysch wards SUCK!

My kids are one and four. I have some time to work it out. Who knows what kind of new drugs will be out there when the talk happens.

Any parents out there that have had the talk with their kids? What approach did you take?

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 06:20 PM
I'm thinking I will probably share my stories when they are in their 20's.
That's what I was thinking too. My mother-in-law has talked with my husband a lot about her drug days in the past few years.

Courtney
03-23-2007, 06:22 PM
I'm thinking I will probably share my stories when they are in their 20's.

Yeah, I'm in my 20s now, and I kinda wish that my parents didn't tell me that shit. It's just too weird to imagine them being real people and partying and stuff.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 06:23 PM
My husband really enjoys talking to his mom about drugs, but usually he's telling her about his experiences.

shoegazer76
03-23-2007, 06:28 PM
If I ever have kids I'm gonna stick with the facts to tell them.
1. Drugs are expensive so you better have a good job.
2. Drugs age you prematurely.
3. Drugs rot out yr teeth and cause phsyical deterioration.
4. Drugs may cause some forms of physical & sexual disease.
5. Drugs make yr pecker & balls shrivel up.
6. Drugs make you take off yr clothes & dance for ugly men for them.
7. Drugs make you fuck people you don't want to for them.
8. Drugs can put you in jail.
9. You never know what yr realing buying.
10. They kill!!!!!!!!

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 06:38 PM
I would tell my children to never use drugs.

amyzzz
03-23-2007, 06:39 PM
Hypocrite.

vinylmartyr
03-23-2007, 06:56 PM
I guess. I wish I never used drugs. Its just not worth the risk of becoming an addict. You can lose so much. I'm never having kids anyways so it does not matter. I would hate it if I had a kid that became a junkie since it would be born preconditioned to be an addict. I could not tell them that its ok to use something that could destroy them.

jackstraw94086
03-23-2007, 07:15 PM
Hypocrite.

that logic sucks. just because you've done drugs doesn't mean you have no right tell your kids not to. not many people (with kids) would be in a better position to educate them actually.

If I wanted advice about building a successful marriage I'd rather listen to a divorcee over a catholic priest.

algunz
03-23-2007, 10:37 PM
I guess I'll dare to dive back in . . .

This thread seems rather tainted and misdirected. There are those on here that revel in their debaucheray and those that try to sway people in different directions. Neither seems like a healthy place to be. It all seems like a celebration of THE DRUG. For some it's alcohol, others it's 2ci - but shouldn't the only drug we be celebrating be music. (Cheesy, but deal with it.) I am a drug user. I love pot, ecstacy, pain killers, all psychedelics, alcohol, and tobacco. Speedy drugs freak me out. But to watch this thread grow and grow as people try to search for others to tell them it's OK to do drugs freaks me out. I don't see the point of all this, but to find people whom you might hook up with to score more drugs. I guess maybe I'm missing the boat here, but it seems like a lot of you skids should consider seeking help. I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but going against the grain on these threads seems the only way to get a reaction from any of the "regulars."

algunz
03-23-2007, 10:41 PM
Oh and has the original thread creator even shown up again? Or is Big Brother watching you right now?

PotVsKtl
03-23-2007, 11:38 PM
My sister is now a hooker due to crack. Stick to gateway drugs kids.

jackstraw94086
03-23-2007, 11:41 PM
does she have reasonable rates (I mean relative to her looks and prowess)?

PotVsKtl
03-23-2007, 11:45 PM
She's in her mid 30s and fat. Not as fat as she used to be, what with the crack and all. Also, she is in Houston. You'd have to inquire about her rates. You can probably find her in the 3rd Ward.

thelastgreatman
03-23-2007, 11:45 PM
I guess I'll dare to dive back in . . .

This thread seems rather tainted and misdirected. There are those on here that revel in their debaucheray and those that try to sway people in different directions. Neither seems like a healthy place to be. It all seems like a celebration of THE DRUG. For some it's alcohol, others it's 2ci - but shouldn't the only drug we be celebrating be music. (Cheesy, but deal with it.) I am a drug user. I love pot, ecstacy, pain killers, all psychedelics, alcohol, and tobacco. Speedy drugs freak me out. But to watch this thread grow and grow as people try to search for others to tell them it's OK to do drugs freaks me out. I don't see the point of all this, but to find people whom you might hook up with to score more drugs. I guess maybe I'm missing the boat here, but it seems like a lot of you skids should consider seeking help. I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but going against the grain on these threads seems the only way to get a reaction from any of the "regulars."

"Shouldn't the only drug we're celebrating be music?" I mean, not so much, considering that the thread is named "Ecstasy," and that's what it was originally and currently about. And if any drug is music itself, it's ecstasy.

"Skids?" Perhaps we need to clarify here, but the term "skid" is normally applied to the homeless, deriving from "skid row," is it not? Personally, I've been unusually successful in three different careers already and I'm only twenty-three, so that's rather insulting. I mean, I don't really see how you could've thought it would be anything BUT insulting. I don't really care, but I ain't a fucking bum, thanks.

I'm not even sure what your point is. So both reveling in the drug and trying to discourage people from the drug are unhealthy places to be? What the fuck does that even mean? I suppose it would be healthier if everyone weighed in with their indifference, then? This paragraph isn't rhetorical--I don't know what the fuck you're aiming at.

---------

As far as dealing with kids and drugs... I doubt y'all want to hear my thoughts on the matter. But you can probably guess.

full.on.idle
03-24-2007, 01:02 AM
spent three hours in a dark room with my friend describing the rape and murder of our other friend's mom at the hands of a tribe of apemen from the primordial ooze.
There is something wrong with you.

bballarl
03-24-2007, 01:10 AM
Lastgreatman, are there any other dimensions to you besides heavy drug user/dealer/whatever?

Seriously. What I have gathered from this thread is that you have done tons of drugs, serious and not-so-serious, and LOOK, they haven't done anything besides get you fucked up! No serious consequences! You even kicked all that shit by yourself! You've been successful in your career(s) thus far, you are quite the rhetorician, and you have all the answers. And you're only 23!

I think your personal decisions regarding what you do/put in your body are fine. You have every right to make those decisions. But anyone here who has disagreed with you is greeted with arguments, that while clearly made, are highly idealized and will probably only take place in your perfect world. You cannot see beyond your personal experience, and if you manage to see the validity beyond your own experiences, it's quickly dismissed.

I have an extremely hard time believing that you will be a 100% normally functioning human being, with zero problems stemming from drug use, later on in your life. Your posts contain this ridiculous invincibility notion. You aren't Keith Richards (or are you?)

And algunz has a point. For you, revelling in a drug is a "healthy" state. For many people, this is the case. For others, discouraging drug use is a "healthy" thing for them to do. Just because other people are weighing in with their indifference does not make it any less valid than your adventures.

I don't really know what I'm saying, it's late. You're probably Keith Richards and get your blood replaced in Switzerland. Whatev.

full.on.idle
03-24-2007, 01:14 AM
Nicely stated, Andrew.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 02:44 AM
Andrew, is it? Agreed, it is nicely put, and I understand what you're going for. I'm going to respond to it piece-by-piece, not just go argue with you because you disagree with me, but to communicate.


Lastgreatman, are there any other dimensions to you besides heavy drug user/dealer/whatever?

Yeah, I know what you mean, I do tend to sound like a broken or perhaps just endless record. But at the same time, when has this thread been about anything but drugs?


Seriously. What I have gathered from this thread is that you have done tons of drugs, serious and not-so-serious, and LOOK, they haven't done anything besides get you fucked up! No serious consequences! You even kicked all that shit by yourself! You've been successful in your career(s) thus far, you are quite the rhetorician, and you have all the answers. And you're only 23!


Yeah, I'm somewhat guilty of this too. But I haven't really tried to pretend there are no consequences to drugs, just debated the truth of some of them. I believe in debate or argument, whatever you prefer to call it, as a way of spreading information. Some things I was right about, because I spent a lot of time studying. Vinyl corrected me on something, and I was glad to be corrected--knowledge is what makes better usage possible. I believe if more people had more accurate information there would be less damage done. As far as consequences go: 4000 of dental work, stomach lining all fucked up, nearly died once, numerous painful withdrawls, and lost a fair number of friends. I'm not claiming there are no consequences, and in truth I don't think you can really say that I have been claiming that if you take the whole thread into consideration, more been debating which are valid concerns and which might not be.


I think your personal decisions regarding what you do/put in your body are fine. You have every right to make those decisions. But anyone here who has disagreed with you is greeted with arguments, that while clearly made, are highly idealized and will probably only take place in your perfect world. You cannot see beyond your personal experience, and if you manage to see the validity beyond your own experiences, it's quickly dismissed.

If this comment was triggered by my response to Algunz (obviously among others, but primarily in reponse to Algunz) I take exception to it. My complaints with his argument were that (a) it's unclear what point he's trying to make and (b) the word "skid" is unnecessary. One nice thing about this thread is there hasn't been much disparaging of each other. Now perhaps he didn't mean it in the way I'm familiar with it, but I think of gutter punks when I hear "skids," and that's a bit annoying--we all obviously have computers, and probably jobs, and are semi-literate.


I have an extremely hard time believing that you will be a 100% normally functioning human being, with zero problems stemming from drug use, later on in your life. Your posts contain this ridiculous invincibility notion.
Far from invincible, never claimed to be, just somewhat talented and passionate about it is all. I spent hours every day for several years studying this field (meaning actual research, not just "research"), so yes I do get a conversational hardon when the topic comes up.


And algunz has a point. For you, revelling in a drug is a "healthy" state. For many people, this is the case. For others, discouraging drug use is a "healthy" thing for them to do. Just because other people are weighing in with their indifference does not make it any less valid than your adventures.

This is partly my fault, I left a negating term out of the clause--Algunz said that neither advocating nor admonishing drug use was healthy, not that both were healthy. I suppose you could still say what you just said about both sides being unhealthy, but there's always some aspect to any two sides of an issue that come from a healthy place and also from an unhealthy place. I just don't think what he said had a clear point.

Personally, I'm proud of this thread. It's been a well-reasoned, intelligent, and informative discussion of a complex issue, I think. Maybe I'm just an asshole--it's certainly been suggested before--but... I don't know. I suppose I just resent judgments placed on me because of my passion for this topic. If someone owns a vineyard, they can start up a romantic conversation about winemaking without being judged as a pathetic drunk. Someday I hope to be able to do the same with my hobbies.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 06:28 AM
that logic sucks. just because you've done drugs doesn't mean you have no right tell your kids not to. not many people (with kids) would be in a better position to educate them actually.

If I wanted advice about building a successful marriage I'd rather listen to a divorcee over a catholic priest.
My point is I don't think it's wise to tell kids "don't do it--it will ruin your life" without going into more detail about it. Kids want to rebel, and if you give them information about drugs--the good things AND the bad things--they can make a more well-informed decision for THEMSELVES. At the very least you can explain WHY people do it (let's face it, a lot of times it feels good) and that there are consequences for using drugs.

And I knew vinyl wasn't planning to have kids from things he has said in the past, so that statement sounded a bit judgmental to me since I'm a parent.

bartelby
03-24-2007, 06:45 AM
I think another thing being overlooked is the fact that, as LGM has stated, this thread is about drugs. As a result all of us who are celebrating them seem to be fanatics/etc, as if that's all our lives revolve around.

Now while I'm certainly not as heavy a user as LGM has been, I've done my fair share and I usually party pretty hard 3 or 4 times a year (pot/booze are constants though), but to associate my and others' use here as skid-ish and in need of help is a bit too far. I'm 5 months from being an lawyer and have worked several other interesting and fulfilling jobs along the way and my drug use certainly hasn't gotten in the way of that. There's lots else going on in my life but I'm not going to gab about it in an "ecstacy - who's in??" thread.

Now I'm not saying "see, only retards get fucked up" or anything like that, but I think its unfair to label all users as "in need of help", etc as others have seemingly put it. That's just not the case and I feel that I and a lot of my friends are examples of that cause we're able to throw down, party our faces off and then chill and head back to our regular lives. Moral of the story = drug use can be fine with moderation.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 07:02 AM
Right. A lot of us are just recreational drug users who use drugs the way a lot of people drink alcohol: to unwind after a long week of working or whatever. You judge us because drugs are still illegal while alcohol/smoking is legal.

algunz
03-24-2007, 07:55 AM
But, also a lot of you seem to read whatever you want into what anybody is saying on this thread to find justification for what you plan on doing and validation for what you have done. "Skids" is an expression that my friends and I use as an amusing extention of kids - nothing was meant by it beyond an alternative pronoun. I agree that recreational drug use can be a great mind-opening opportunity. But much of the drug use being referenced here is far from recreational. The thread started with who's rollin'? An innocent question, but has turned into an intimidating spitting contest between a small group of people. The only productive thing that has come out of this (not to say that every thread needs to be productive) was the short discussion on what to tell your kids. That's something I struggle with everyday now that I have a little girl. (oh and just for clarification - I'm a girl. Al is short for Alessandra.) But I can tell you one thing I'd never expose her to this dialogue.

KiwiCoachella
03-24-2007, 08:45 AM
Love your work LGM. And amyzzz, bartelby and the rest of you who have positively contributed to this thread.

KiwiCoachella
03-24-2007, 08:54 AM
But, also a lot of you seem to read whatever you want into what anybody is saying on this thread to find justification for what you plan on doing and validation for what you have done. "Skids" is an expression that my friends and I use as an amusing extention of kids - nothing was meant by it beyond an alternative pronoun. I agree that recreational drug use can be a great mind-opening opportunity. But much of the drug use being referenced here is far from recreational. The thread started with who's rollin'? An innocent question, but has turned into an intimidating spitting contest between a small group of people. The only productive thing that has come out of this (not to say that every thread needs to be productive) was the short discussion on what to tell your kids. That's something I struggle with everyday now that I have a little girl. (oh and just for clarification - I'm a girl. Al is short for Alessandra.) But I can tell you one thing I'd never expose her to this dialogue.

I'm not intimidated in the slightest, merely intrigued.

And as far as your 'only productive thing' comment, now who's making judgements? I've garnered information on the effects of ectsasy which left me better informed on whether I will take the drug at Coachella. That's productive for me.

algunz
03-24-2007, 09:03 AM
I think that many people on the boards at times take the words too seriously. I started early on this thread, because I was intrigued and it started as an amusing outlet for sharing drug stories and getting some information about effects. But, it rapidly swirled into this ongoing discussion of what I've done, dealt with, and continue to use. I guess I'm most taken back by this motif of "celebration" in how close some have come to the edge, yet still continue to "abuse" their body.

But, no matter, what I say someone out there will argue the semantics and won't see my innocent intent to participate in the discussion as someone who has been there, but has finally realized that physically, emotionally, and financially illicit drug use just isn't my gig anymore. Do I look down on those that still partake? No. And I still drop, smoke or swallow on occasion.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 09:25 AM
But, also a lot of you seem to read whatever you want into what anybody is saying on this thread to find justification for what you plan on doing and validation for what you have done. "Skids" is an expression that my friends and I use as an amusing extention of kids - nothing was meant by it beyond an alternative pronoun. I agree that recreational drug use can be a great mind-opening opportunity. But much of the drug use being referenced here is far from recreational. The thread started with who's rollin'? An innocent question, but has turned into an intimidating spitting contest between a small group of people. The only productive thing that has come out of this (not to say that every thread needs to be productive) was the short discussion on what to tell your kids. That's something I struggle with everyday now that I have a little girl. (oh and just for clarification - I'm a girl. Al is short for Alessandra.) But I can tell you one thing I'd never expose her to this dialogue.
Sure, some people are telling their most extreme experiences with drugs, but I personally don't do anything more than what is recreational. My husband and I constantly question ourselves and each other "should we do this? is this too much?" I actually freak out on my husband every time he wants to introduce something new, but we aren't touching any of the chemically addictive stuff (with one exception of when we tried painkillers for a short while).

We have a group of friends who have been recreationally using drugs for over 10 years, so we rely on their experiences and also on a lot of information already out there on the internet and elsewhere to inform us.

I have a lot to lose if I get caught up in some nasty addiction, so I try to be as careful as possible and still have fun. If any one thing becomes more important to me than my husband or my little girls, it's out.

Courtney
03-24-2007, 10:34 AM
He went in to his cancer treatment still worried and stressful, but now he had a pretty strong notion that there were things to live for and more "greatest nights of your life" lying ahead.

That's pretty sad if you need drugs to realize that life is worth living.

KenMixtape
03-24-2007, 10:38 AM
I shouldn't even dignify that with a response, but that's pretty sad that that's all you got out of that.
It saddens me that you can't just be happy for someone being alive. Drugs may not be your bag, but I'm suspicious of any person who thinks they're morally superior for not partaking.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 10:39 AM
No shit. Lay off with the negative comments, Courtney, unless you know what the fuck you're talking about.

KiwiCoachella
03-24-2007, 10:46 AM
No shit. Lay off with the negative comments, Courtney, unless you know what the fuck you're talking about.

hear hear

shoegazer76
03-24-2007, 10:46 AM
I shouldn't even dignify that with a response, but that's pretty sad that that's all you got out of that.
It saddens me that you can't just be happy for someone being alive. Drugs may not be your bag, but I'm suspicious of any person who thinks they're morally superior for not partaking.

Agreed, to each there own. If yr a straight edger more power to ya thats great for you. I hate these hardcore naziesque straight edgers that will beat people & engage in violence because somebody smoked a cigarette near them. I can't imagine what they wold do if they witnessed real drugs usage, they'd probly lynch em. Flaunt yr X's all you want I would much rather do drugs than engage in facist violence.

Courtney
03-24-2007, 10:49 AM
Wow, really negative response. Especially from Amy.

Okay,
1) I'm happy that the guy is alive. Truly happy. That's awesome.
2) I didn't say that I don't partake on occasion. I didn't say that I'm morally superior. I don't think that I am.
3) I do maintain that it's really sad when someone gives up on life. And it's really sad that they don't realize all the wonderful, amazing things about living that don't involve drugs.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 10:49 AM
Agreed, to each there own. If yr a straight edger more power to ya thats great for you. I hate these hardcore naziesque straight edgers that will beat people & engage in violence because somebody smoked a cigarette near them. I can't imagine what they wold do if they witnessed real drugs usage, they'd probly lynch em. Flaunt yr X's all you want I would much rather do drugs than engage in facist violence.
I used to be "straight edge," and I can guarantee if you haven't tried anything, you don't really know what you're talking about. Also, people use LEGAL prescription drugs to better their lives everyday (i.e. anti-depressants, anti-anxiety drugs), so how is that so hard to believe that Ecstasy could actually help someone therapeutically?

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 10:51 AM
I actually like Courtney, so I'm sorry if that sounded kind of asshole-ish. Sorry.

KiwiCoachella
03-24-2007, 10:54 AM
3) I do maintain that it's really sad when someone gives up on life. And it's really sad that they don't realize all the wonderful, amazing things about living that don't involve drugs.

Of course it's sad when someone gives up on life.

For me, the whole point of the story was that taking the e enabled the dude to see past all the bullshit and appreciate all the wonderful, amazing things about living you're talking about.

Courtney
03-24-2007, 11:35 AM
I actually like Courtney, so I'm sorry if that sounded kind of asshole-ish. Sorry.

It's okay. I think you're one of the nicest posters on the board, so it sort of surprised me. But I can understand how this is an issue that everyone would feel really strongly about.

I can also understand how my original post might have sounded sort of asshole-ish too, which I apologize for. I just have seen too many friends (myself included) self-medicate with drugs, when there are deeper issues that need to be resolved, so it's something that's very close to my heart.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 11:43 AM
Understood.

vinylmartyr
03-24-2007, 12:22 PM
This poll tells me that 20,000 people will be rollin at Coachella.

bballarl
03-24-2007, 12:30 PM
But not scratchin'.

codytwo
03-24-2007, 12:52 PM
There is something wrong with you.

You'll be singing a different tune when they find YOU.

breakjaw
03-24-2007, 01:42 PM
I guess. I wish I never used drugs. Its just not worth the risk of becoming an addict. You can lose so much. I'm never having kids anyways so it does not matter. I would hate it if I had a kid that became a junkie since it would be born preconditioned to be an addict. I could not tell them that its ok to use something that could destroy them.
I think with your knowledge and wisdom,you would make a good father to a kid(kids) someday and someday you will,don't sell yourself short of one of the best experiences in life.

PotVsKtl
03-24-2007, 02:08 PM
Bob sounds like a ***.

KenMixtape
03-24-2007, 02:43 PM
Bob sounds like a ***.

what was your first clue?

KenMixtape
03-24-2007, 02:52 PM
I can also understand how my original post might have sounded sort of asshole-ish too, which I apologize for. I just have seen too many friends (myself included) self-medicate with drugs, when there are deeper issues that need to be resolved, so it's something that's very close to my heart.


This really wasn't a case of ongoing self medication. It was a one shot deal that went a long way towards changing his attitude. He still does it once in awhile, and who would begrudge anyone for that?

In 6 months you could be dead from a cancer you knew nothing about, and no one would care if you dropped an E every now and then while you were alive. Bottom line is, I have never personally known anyone who's regretted it, and most of them agree that it was something beneficial in their lives. If it's not for you, that's fine. But casual users do not deserve to be demonized.

Courtney
03-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Bottom line is, I have never personally known anyone who's regretted it, and most of them agree that it was something beneficial in their lives. If it's not for you, that's fine. But casual users do not deserve to be demonized.

Please stop generalizing my comments. I'm not demonizing anyone.

But I'm also not going to say that E is "beneficial," because we all know what kind of damage it can do. We disagree; that's fine. Do what you want with your body.

nothingman00
03-24-2007, 03:03 PM
-deleted-

bartelby
03-24-2007, 06:20 PM
Bob sounds like a ***.

that was a total "ignorant asshole" comment pot...think before you type

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 06:23 PM
Anyone try mescaline...?

vinylmartyr
03-24-2007, 06:42 PM
I stopped drinking 4 days ago and I have not done any drugs in 2 1/2 months. My liver feels a little better.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 06:50 PM
Algunz--sorry for overreacting to the "skids" then, but it's a term I'd known to be applied to general scumfucks, which I don't consider myself similar too. Forgive and forget?

As for everybody else, well thanks for the support. In the past couple years since I left Jersey I've become the lone heavy user in a number of different circles, so I'm much more accustomed to people shunning me when I try to talk about drugums than saying, "well, you're a little fucked up, but that's okay," and I appreciate it.

By the same token, I'd like to hope that maybe we can all agree that most all drugs, or at least ecstasy, have both their positives and negatives. E can be therapeutic, it can also fuck up your brain. Paxil can stop your panic attacks or make you kill yourself, Viagra can give you heart attacks. There's nothing in life that can ever truly be characterized as solidly good or solidly bad. Well, maybe genocide. That shit sucks. At the same time, I could really get behind a concentration camp that only creamated guys who wear backwards baseball caps.

Amy--Mescaline is the only well-known drug I've never had the pleasure of experiencing, although when I used to vacation in Montreal I would always stop by the drug spot and buy some little baggies of white powder that they claimed were mescaline but definitely weren't. Effects differed from one trip to the other, but one of those times was the single happiest substance I've ever done in my life. Had practically no actually intoxicative effects except to make everything seem wonderful--I'd fucking love to know what that shit was. Anyone from Quebec on the thread?

bartelby
03-24-2007, 07:00 PM
i might have to make the trip...only 2 hours away!

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 07:05 PM
Hard to say that they'll have an equally good batch around, Bartel. Other times I got stuff that was extremely disassociative (still good, but more like DXM than anything else) or just mildly happy but not that same ecstatic buzz. If you do, though, pick me up some. =) Metro station at the corner of St. Catherine and St. Laurent, I believe, right across from the church.

vinylmartyr
03-24-2007, 07:16 PM
I have taken mescaline a bunch of times but it was over 10 years ago. I really don't remebmer much. I remember being fucked up.

bartelby
03-24-2007, 07:19 PM
Hard to say that they'll have an equally good batch around, Bartel. Other times I got stuff that was extremely disassociative (still good, but more like DXM than anything else) or just mildly happy but not that same ecstatic buzz. If you do, though, pick me up some. =) Metro station at the corner of St. Catherine and St. Laurent, I believe, right across from the church.

oh yes, i know the spot...

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 07:34 PM
oh yes, i know the spot...

Well if you make that trip, PM me. Mutually beneficial exchanges. A friend of mine who wrote a book that I really loved traded me a five percent interest in any proceeds he receives from its publishing in exchange for one of my last two bags of that shit--that's how good it was.

bartelby
03-24-2007, 07:38 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


gimme a week or two...i'm sure i'll be in mtl by then...

Quentin
03-24-2007, 08:52 PM
I stopped drinking 4 days ago and I have not done any drugs in 2 1/2 months. My liver feels a little better.

someone partied a little too hard in their youthful years eeeh?

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 08:52 PM
I have taken mescaline a bunch of times but it was over 10 years ago. I really don't remebmer much. I remember being fucked up.
Ok, well, we just boiled some up, and I drank most of my dose, so we'll see what happens. We might just go watch A Scanner Darkly while we're coming up or something.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 08:54 PM
Ok, well, we just boiled some up, and I drank most of my dose, so we'll see what happens. We might just go watch A Scanner Darkly while we're coming up or something.

You're a lucky bastard. But DO NOT watch that movie. It is fucking godawful bad, and would not be enhanced by mescaline. Mescaline is a very nature-driven trip from everything I've read, there's supposed to be a strong Earth quality to it. But whatever you do ditch A Scanner Darkly, it's fucking HORRIBLE.

Mr.Nipples
03-24-2007, 08:55 PM
Anyone try mescaline...?

its great. its my E substitute this year...

codytwo
03-24-2007, 08:55 PM
Its not that bad. I thought it was really good, actually. God awful, no.

amyzzz
03-24-2007, 08:56 PM
I've watched it several times on 2-ci (and sober). I love that movie. :)

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 08:59 PM
Fucking seriously? Jesus, how? It's about the most annoying depiction of drug people I've ever seen. Even as a drug person I wanted to take a fucking hatchet to every single character. Keanu manages to be completely wooden even when animated (punny, I know), and Linklater just refuses to move at a tolerable pace.

Seriously?

algunz
03-24-2007, 10:21 PM
Funny, amyzzz, your floating mountains/angel wings remind me of a few of my most memorable mescaline trips.

LGM, I agree "Scanner Darkly" fuckin' sucks, yet "Slacker" has got to be one of my most favorite movies of all time, and it's the tedious pace that intrigues me the most.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 10:58 PM
Sorry I can't agree with you there. Slacker is the perfect argument for learning screenwriting structure. As a filmmaker myself I find that movie totally unwatchable. But to each their own, of course.

algunz
03-24-2007, 11:22 PM
But, it's the lack of structure that makes it, for me, so refreshing.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2007, 11:51 PM
It's all just difference of opinion, so who cares what I think, but no art works without some kind of structure. Music without a beat sucks, stories without a plot suck. I couldn't find myself caring about anyone in Slacker, had to turn it off halfway through. Linklater hasn't seemed willing to ditch this idea that he doesn't need to learn from the several thousand years of storytelling theory humanity has accumulated. Bugs me.

Hannahrain
03-25-2007, 12:05 AM
Hmmm. I definitely disagree with you on the "art without structure" thing. I think that part of what makes art great is creative license to do whatever the fuck you want and still call it art. But we could argue about this forever and not accomplish anything. So let's not.

jackstraw94086
03-25-2007, 12:40 AM
Hmmm. I definitely disagree with you on the "art without structure" thing. I think that part of what makes art great is creative license to do whatever the fuck you want and still call it art. But we could argue about this forever and not accomplish anything. So let's not.

I think you're half right. Artists who flaunt boundries are necessary in as much as they help present new ideas and new potential themes for art. Once something works then it sets rules for others to follow. Art is like evolution in a sense that it's only progresses through random "errors".

Thus the part I agree with you on is that no art can be fully disqualified if there is truly effort exerted to create it. If nobody likes it then at least they know what they don't like.

Most art is boring though.

thelastgreatman
03-25-2007, 12:53 AM
Hannah, I know where you're coming from 'cause it's exactly what I used to maintain, but... oh, this is just going to get really film geeky, but here goes: there are certain techniques you have to apply to plotting a film because it plays out differently than other mediums. Actually getting into all the nuance of it is lengthy and unnecessary, but here's the best parallel I can draw for you--story structure in movies is equivalent to time signature in music. Now, the best artists in both mediums learn to bend the rules (e.g. the broken timeline of Pulp Fiction, unusual structure of Adaptation or the various unusual time signatures of Radiohead and Tool's last few albums), but you can only effectively fuck with the rules after you understand them and why they exist. There are some basic principles of good storytelling that have been cultivated over millenia. Sometimes filmmakers choose to willfully disregard them, perhaps just because they don't know better, perhaps because they think it's original, and either way it's still art, but it's almost always worse for it. It's absurd the percentage of scripts that I read where I'm just like, "So you haven't studied this craft at all, huh?" Sometimes they even succeed, like Linklater, the bastard. =)

Courtney
03-25-2007, 01:06 AM
I find it hard to think of an example of art with out some sort of structure. Even if we're talking about Warhol's film Sleep, or John Cage's 4'33", there's structure in the form of absence.

thelastgreatman
03-25-2007, 01:18 AM
I find it hard to think of an example of art with out some sort of structure. Even if we're talking about Warhol's film Sleep, or John Cage's 4'33", there's structure in the form of absence.

Sleep doesn't really count as a film, it's an exercise using moving pictures but it's not trying to tell a story. Frankly a lot of Warhol's stuff, particularly in the movie department, feels like being jerked off with only one finger--unsatisfying.

Not familiar with 4'33". But in either case, I get what you mean with the structure through absence line of thought, but it's just not applicable if you're talking about plot structure. Plot structure without structure is no plot. It's analagous to a musical structure of silence, or at best that fucking Number Nine song Yoko made Lennon record. I mean, I guess she called it music, but I just can't subscribe to that. I'm sorry actually, I shouldn't even have gotten off on this shit, I'm just going to come off like a know-it-all asshole for about the fifteenth time on this thread.

Hannahrain
03-25-2007, 01:23 AM
Ah, but see I wasn't talking about plot structure. I was talking about art in general. But I don't even want to have a conversation about it. There's too much to say, and it's too late to say it. Stop typing, hannahra

merznerve
03-25-2007, 02:12 AM
i hope to hear a couple different remixes of rollin' and scratchin' specifically MSTRKRFT's


it's not that far from the original...
i just saw them spin that live yesterday. or so i thought it was their remix track...

amyzzz
03-25-2007, 07:13 AM
Ok, I watched Ghost World instead which we recently bought used at Half Price Books. That is such an awesome movie. We listened to 2 Massive Attack albums and The Fountain soundtrack, so the entire night we kept tripping on Thora Birch and The Fountain music. It was like listening to everything for the first time again. Music sounded really echo-y, and it came in waves, and everything was so dreamy. (and I still can't believe you can buy this cactus as Home Depot!)

bartelby
03-25-2007, 07:16 AM
lol, we're on the same page....

amyzzz
03-25-2007, 07:20 AM
It was pretty amazing. I still can't think clearly. Nice body hallucinations, mouth hallucinations and really dreamy thought processes. And like I said, music sounded completely different. I don't know when I will stop hearing new layers in Massive Attack. They better put out that new CD soon, and I expect no less than another masterpiece.

thelastgreatman
03-25-2007, 07:38 AM
Alright, so I'm jealous. Somehow finding mescaline in a barter in the campgrounds is one of my pipe dreams for this year's Coach, although I'm still not sure what night I'd then schedule that for. Probably Saturday I guess, since there's not too much that night I'd really care about getting fucked up by a less than conducive trip.

So Amy, moving on to my drug geek questions, explain your preparation technique. You used actual peyote cactus material, not the mescaline buttons themselves? And made a tea out of it? Did you have to grow the cactus or something, 'cause I'm fucking astounded if this shit has been for sale at Home Depot the whole time and my dumb ass wasn't aware. Although if I recall correctly, buttons are supposed to provide better results than the cactus flesh.

Puppet
03-25-2007, 08:18 AM
OHHH Home Depot... I want to experiance it all!! Will someone be my Coachella friend??

thelastgreatman
03-25-2007, 08:19 AM
Jesus dude. Turn that sig down, please.

Quentin
03-25-2007, 09:40 AM
Jesus dude. Turn that sig down, please.

Haha, yeh, it's a great sig...but after seeing it ten times in giant purple...what is that, Arial font, it get's kinda irritating.

amyzzz
03-25-2007, 12:15 PM
Alright, so I'm jealous. Somehow finding mescaline in a barter in the campgrounds is one of my pipe dreams for this year's Coach, although I'm still not sure what night I'd then schedule that for. Probably Saturday I guess, since there's not too much that night I'd really care about getting fucked up by a less than conducive trip.

So Amy, moving on to my drug geek questions, explain your preparation technique. You used actual peyote cactus material, not the mescaline buttons themselves? And made a tea out of it? Did you have to grow the cactus or something, 'cause I'm fucking astounded if this shit has been for sale at Home Depot the whole time and my dumb ass wasn't aware. Although if I recall correctly, buttons are supposed to provide better results than the cactus flesh.
We used a San Pedro cactus (make sure it's the RIGHT kind of San Pedro cactus--check the Latin name). We picked it up at Home Depot about 6 months ago, and decided to try taking a cutting and boiling it down. Check this erowid link here (http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_preparation5.shtml)
It took about 3-4 hours to do the entire process, and we cut about 2 feet off (1 foot per dose)

bartelby
03-25-2007, 12:31 PM
very interesting....and you say it was good eh?

thelastgreatman
03-25-2007, 02:35 PM
Well, not enough time to prepare that for Coach, but something to think about in the long term, thanks Amy. I still want the real shit though, those phosphorescent desert buttons singing one familiar song (anyone?). Or some of that fake shit from Montreal, I'm looking at you Bartel.

bartelby
03-25-2007, 07:54 PM
there would be plenty of time, wouldn't there? its only a 4 hour process...you could have gallons by concert time!

but what do you think amyzzz, would it be fun at a concert or is it more of an "at home" thing?

thelastgreatman
03-25-2007, 08:52 PM
I was assuming that when you buy it it would be small, or at least not the two feet tall I'd need. Besides, there have to be some fiends from New Mexico in the campsite who've brought actual buttons, and I intend to find them Thursday night.

amyzzz
03-26-2007, 10:24 AM
Bartelby, I'm thinking it probably could be fun at a concert, although it could make you vomit. We did not have any vomitting and digestion issues, although our stomachs were a little bit gurgly, but my husband has read so much that vomitting usually happens that we assumed we would. It made music sound different and echo-y, but since it was so dreamy, I didn't have as intense emotions as I've had on some other psychedelics. (I like the intense emotions sometimes, so not having that could be a bad thing) Sometimes, music sounded really scary (some parts of The Fountain and Massive Attack); we eventually had to turn off the music.

LGM, we bought a 6 foot tall cactus for about $70 with 2 6 foot tall stems growing right next to each other, so we originally had about 12 feet to work with. I don't know how much or how often we'll do this--I don't want to completely kill the poor thing. We had the cactus for 6 months or so because we just never got around to trying this.

nothingman00
03-26-2007, 10:42 AM
You didn't get sick at all? Man, the only times I've eaten peyote buttons, I've yanged violently. Mescaline tabs on the other hand... Not so bad.

J~$$$
03-26-2007, 10:56 AM
We used a San Pedro cactus (make sure it's the RIGHT kind of San Pedro cactus--check the Latin name). We picked it up at Home Depot about 6 months ago, and decided to try taking a cutting and boiling it down. Check this erowid link here (http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_preparation5.shtml)
It took about 3-4 hours to do the entire process, and we cut about 2 feet off (1 foot per dose)

HAHAHAHA......home depot. I am going to try this.

amyzzz
03-26-2007, 11:31 AM
My husband had to do a little checking--they didn't have that cactus at EVERY Home Depot. And hey, we do live in Arizona, so I don't know if Home Depots throughout the country would sell cacti.

shoegazer76
03-26-2007, 12:17 PM
Ya'll are so lucky to live out west. Not cacti here in the midwest.:mad:

Balthazar B
03-26-2007, 04:55 PM
So...

who's got the pills ?

crazzz2007
03-26-2007, 05:30 PM
anyone tried ayahuasca? tried it for the first time this past summer in peru, with a shaman guiding us.

wowowowowowowowowowow

thelastgreatman
03-26-2007, 07:29 PM
anyone tried ayahuasca? tried it for the first time this past summer in peru, with a shaman guiding us.

wowowowowowowowowowow

I've had synthesized DMT and 5-meo-DMT, but not ayahuasca. Wasn't so pleased with the pure chemicals, but as I understand it it was meant to be injested as part of the brew.

bartelby
03-26-2007, 07:41 PM
Bartelby, I'm thinking it probably could be fun at a concert, although it could make you vomit. We did not have any vomitting and digestion issues, although our stomachs were a little bit gurgly, but my husband has read so much that vomitting usually happens that we assumed we would. It made music sound different and echo-y, but since it was so dreamy, I didn't have as intense emotions as I've had on some other psychedelics. (I like the intense emotions sometimes, so not having that could be a bad thing) Sometimes, music sounded really scary (some parts of The Fountain and Massive Attack); we eventually had to turn off the music.


Hmmm, that doesn't sound too appealing....I think its something I'll put in my back pocket and try it some other time...I definitely don't want to be barfing at coachella - yikes!

thelastgreatman
03-26-2007, 07:49 PM
If you're not throwing up, that means you should be taking more. =)

bartelby
03-26-2007, 07:57 PM
lol - maybe at a safe home base but hurlin in one of those porta-potties (or on one of my buddies for that matter) is out of the question

Snosurf
04-05-2007, 01:39 AM
I'm going to bring about 1000 blue Gucci's over from Australia so if anyone needs any just look out for the guy swimming breaststroke through the air in the Sahara Tent

MannyMacabre
04-05-2007, 07:56 AM
im rollin right now.

amyzzz
04-05-2007, 09:14 AM
This early? Or are you still rolling from last night?

bartelby
04-05-2007, 09:29 AM
im rollin right now.

i'm jealous...

anyone else having some severe craving pre-coachella? i've been very good lately with my health, trying to get in shape for this year's 3day marathon but my discipline's at the end of its rope...

3 more weeks - arg...

amyzzz
04-05-2007, 09:44 AM
i'm jealous...

anyone else having some severe craving pre-coachella? i've been very good lately with my health, trying to get in shape for this year's 3day marathon but my discipline's at the end of its rope...

3 more weeks - arg...
Severe drug craving? I've been feeding my craving with the mescaline the past couple weekends. I'm a little afraid of rolling at coachella (unless it's Sunday night) because I don't want to be all cracked out and depressed for the REST of the festival. I can pretty much count on being depressed the first week of May whatever I do. I probably should've taken that week off too.

How are you getting in shape for Coachella? I'm wondering if I should start climbing stairs again at my work. Is it possible to prepare by standing around long periods of time? (will that even help?) Are you eating a lot of healthful foods? Please explain.