PDA

View Full Version : ThatGirl's Job Search-Resume Questions /Help Thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 03:56 PM
If you would like or need help with job interviewing strategies/techniques, do's and don'ts, job search suggestions and /or advice for a resume or cover letter, ask away - I've been a Recruiter for 13 years and would be happy to help a fellow boardie... because the only thing worse than having a job - is looking for one.

OnlyNonStranger
01-24-2012, 03:58 PM
Who do you recruit for?

Edit: You can PM me if you don't want it in the open eye, just curious if we know some of the same people.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 03:59 PM
I recruit for a High Tech company in Canada but I have worked for several recruiting agencies in the past as well.

Neighborhood Creep
01-24-2012, 04:03 PM
Hand check

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 04:04 PM
Ah memories.

JClemy
01-24-2012, 04:15 PM
Where in Canada?

As we narrow things down.

dorkfish
01-24-2012, 04:22 PM
Since this board is LA-centric, here's the easiest tip: non-profits exist that can help you improve your cover letters, resumes, job search skills, connections, etc. Most offer free/cheap classes or career-changing paths and certification routes.

i.e. http://www.jvsla.org

Courtney
01-24-2012, 04:24 PM
This is awesome. I'm in the process of preparing for business school interviews right now, and it's not fun. Interviews are scary.

guedita
01-24-2012, 04:26 PM
My boyfriend needs your help, badly, ThatGirl.

dorkfish
01-24-2012, 04:31 PM
My boyfriend needs your help, badly, ThatGirl.
Bay Area - www.jvs.org

Can't recommend it enough if he sucks at interviews, resumes, cover letters, etc.

guedita
01-24-2012, 04:32 PM
He sucks at everything.

guedita
01-24-2012, 04:33 PM
That's probably why he's struggling, though. The opening line of his cover letter is currently, "I suck at everything."

Courtney
01-24-2012, 04:33 PM
Except beating me at bets.

Dammit.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 04:33 PM
I live in Calgary. And yes there are lots of non profits that can offer help - but interview strategies can be tough - and with all the different types of questions out there that can trip people up - I'm happy to offer advice :)

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 04:35 PM
That's probably why he's struggling, though. The opening line of his cover letter is currently, "I suck at everything."

I would probably suggest embellishing on that. LOL

JClemy
01-24-2012, 04:42 PM
Excellent. Lots of us going down from Calgary.

Got any advice for someone looking for a communication type job?

Sleepingrock
01-24-2012, 04:54 PM
I just sent in my application last night for the forest fire fighting job. If I hadn't of proof read my cover letter would of claimed that I would be a great wildfire.

faxman75
01-24-2012, 05:00 PM
I If I hadn't of proof read my cover letter would of claimed that I would be a great wildfire.

Looks like you might need some help with this sentence. You came to the right thread.

You edited and tried again...


I just sent in my application last night for the forest fire fighting job. If I hadn't of proof read my cover letter would of claimed that I would be a great wildfire.

and still fell a bit short. lulz

Sleepingrock
01-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Bah. When I start applying for more jobs my spelling and grammar will be impeccable.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-24-2012, 05:26 PM
Excellent. Lots of us going down from Calgary.

Got any advice for someone looking for a communication type job?

Yes, communications degrees are useless. Apply at mcDonalds

OnlyNonStranger
01-24-2012, 05:32 PM
I just sent in my application last night for the forest fire fighting job. If I hadn't of proof read my cover letter would of claimed that I would be a great wildfire.

You're going to fight wildfires?? Damn dude you're going to be huge by the time you're done.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-24-2012, 05:37 PM
A good friend of mine just started school for that. Tough job.

casey
01-24-2012, 05:40 PM
Excellent. Lots of us going down from Calgary.

Got any advice for someone looking for a communication type job?

What kind of communications degree do you have?

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-24-2012, 05:43 PM
Here are some awesome blurbs from social marketing resumes:

"Manage strategy and execution for social media marketing by establishing best practices, developing brand voice, and streamlining efforts and positioning with international teams to launch an internal social media dashboard product for aggregated quantitative analytics."


"Manage large-scale conversational marketing campaigns that bring together brands, content, and audiences. As a digital media publisher, we bring together leading online voices with major brands to host robust social media environments where value-driven conversation is key. Management of these efforts involves working with cross-functional stakeholders (authors, sales, product strategy, engineering, accounting, finance, client services, etc.) and strategic partners to manage programs from inception through execution."

WAT

Sleepingrock
01-24-2012, 05:45 PM
You're going to fight wildfires?? Damn dude you're going to be huge by the time you're done.

Well, I applied to. It is a very competitive job so I doubt I'll get it due to many other folks who are probably a lot more qualified. I have also considered going up North for the summer with a friend. I'm really just looking into it for the money so I will be in less debt in the future. A job in the parks system would be ideal though, too bad I'm not bilingual.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 07:00 PM
Oh - I neglected to mention that participation in this thread could mean I could be offering up advice whilst inebriated. Consider this a full disclaimer.

marooko
01-24-2012, 07:47 PM
HELP!!!!!!


Seriously.

I'll come up with some questions or something.


My main problem is selling myself. I can do my job very well and have great business references/recommendations that will vouch for that. I have a hard time picking words or assembling sentences that don't make me feel like I'm bullshitting, or trying to sell a car or something silly. I'm an honest guy, reliable, dedicated and work hard. No one wants to look at a resume that says that.


Looking for work sucks.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 08:13 PM
@Marooko -
Here are some suggestions for your resume. It's the only opportunity you have to brag. And the one thing that will get you in the door. Use your resume for accomplishment based information i.e. ) I _______________ (did this) _____________using this tool/technology____________________ which accomplished _________ this outcome. Don't be afraid to be descriptive. Remember that quantifying and qualifying what you did is important. i.e I managed this many people in this type of project. It works! You aren't overselling if you aren't embellishing. Tell the truth but dont' be afraid to sell yourself! It's the only opportunity you have. The resume is your foot in the door. You won't get your foot in if the resume doesn't give the best possible impression right off the bat.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 08:19 PM
Excellent. Lots of us going down from Calgary.

Got any advice for someone looking for a communication type job?

Communications is very broad. Are you looking for a role doing media style communications on behalf of a large organization that needs a communications dept, or a company that specializes in that area?

marooko
01-24-2012, 08:39 PM
Employment Date .....................Job Title....................Description


10/09/11 - Current..................Driver................... ........Drive

1/2/03-Current ......................Freelance .....................Drafting


How does it look that I currently have a job and do freelance work?

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 08:44 PM
Employment Date .....................Job Title....................Description


10/09/11 - Current..................Driver................... ........Drive

1/2/03-Current ......................Freelance .....................Drafting



How does it look that I currently have a job and do freelance work?

Hmm. My suggestion would be to separate your resumes into two different career areas. Focus your drafting resume in that area, and likewise for Driving. It may simplify the interview process. If you are freelance, can I ask how much drafting you have done since 2003 and up to now?

marooko
01-24-2012, 08:47 PM
I've completed about 14 jobs from Oct. 09, till now (03 was just a number I tossed in). Varying from a ramp and guardrail, to schools and supermarkets, updates/retrofits, all kinds of things. From about 3 drawings to about 50.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 08:54 PM
I've completed about 14 jobs from Oct. 09, till now (03 was just a number I tossed in). Varying from a ramp and guardrail, to schools and supermarkets, updates/retrofits, all kinds of things. From about 3 drawings to about 50.

Ok- then you definitely need a separate resume and portfolio - highlighting your key experiences apart from the driving jobs will make a big difference. (the driving work I'm assuming is primarly income and not career driven.) If you have portfolio that showcases your work it can really make an impact on the clients you are trying to attract. 14 jobs in 3 years is quite a bit! Focus on what you are most proud of. What of those jobs makes you feel the most pride? What presented the greatest challenge and delivered you the most satisfaction in completing? It will be easy to talk about these projects during the interview process if you have the most of yourself invested in them.

marooko
01-24-2012, 08:59 PM
The drawings I make print out on 24x36 in. paper. ...

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 09:01 PM
The drawings I make print out on 24x36 in. paper. ...

Then create a resume with detailed info- and have an option available for anyone interested to view drawings from your portfolio. Don't print them out en masse. Be selective.

marooko
01-24-2012, 09:07 PM
Thank you. I'll definitely be back.

ThatGirl
01-24-2012, 09:09 PM
Good! Let me know how it pans out!! ;)

marooko
01-25-2012, 02:21 PM
I met with someone about a month ago concerning a potential job. I'm considering calling this person as to remind them of my availability, but I'm finding I feel awkward about it. Should I feel this way, or should I call?

The last time I had an interview was in 1998. I was called by the post office, but that was nothing really, more like a formality. The lady barely even made eye contact.

TomAz
01-25-2012, 02:25 PM
High Tech company in Canada

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3422164646_8f3f80f261.jpg

ThatGirl
01-25-2012, 03:57 PM
I met with someone about a month ago concerning a potential job. I'm considering calling this person as to remind them of my availability, but I'm finding I feel awkward about it. Should I feel this way, or should I call?

The last time I had an interview was in 1998. I was called by the post office, but that was nothing really, more like a formality. The lady barely even made eye contact.

If the person you met with said they would follow up with you and didn't, then you can certainly follow up to ask what the outcome was of the interview process, and whether or not a candidate was selected.. That way you aren't going to seem desperate, and you should get the answers you are looking for.

Interviews have changed a lot since the 90's, and behavioral interviewing has become quite commonplace. The questions ask you to describe a factual scenario from a given situation - ie) "Tell me about a time you managed a difficult client, and how you handled it." They are looking for a response detailing what you did/how you did it/and what the outcome was. You can ask in advance of an interview if you should anticipate behavioral questions - and if so, I can help you in preparing for that. :)

ThatGirl
01-25-2012, 04:01 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3422164646_8f3f80f261.jpg

I'm trying to figure out what this contraption is - my only guess is that it's a tap for maple syrup, which if that is true, is actually pretty funny.

Sleepingrock
01-25-2012, 05:29 PM
It looks like a high tech tap.

TomAz
01-25-2012, 05:39 PM
Vacuum tubing maple sap collection system.

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 06:11 PM
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/273/13645853.jpg

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 06:27 PM
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9611/13646627.jpg

chairmenmeow47
01-25-2012, 06:30 PM
hahahhahahahahha

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 06:31 PM
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5011/13646821.jpg

theresalwaysone
01-25-2012, 06:34 PM
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9611/13646627.jpg

Link to the original?

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 06:37 PM
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5649/13647127.jpg

Mr. Dylanja
01-25-2012, 06:39 PM
:rotfl

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 06:46 PM
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1857/13647661.jpg

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 06:47 PM
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7927/13647762.jpg

ThatGirl
01-25-2012, 07:24 PM
Vacuum tubing maple sap collection system.

All kinds of awesome. Gotsta get me one of thems for my backyard.

malcolmjamalawesome
01-25-2012, 07:27 PM
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3983/13647904.jpg

ThatGirl
01-25-2012, 07:28 PM
MJA those posts are priceless. Especially the Tiny chat mod one.

JClemy
01-26-2012, 09:05 AM
Communications is very broad. Are you looking for a role doing media style communications on behalf of a large organization that needs a communications dept, or a company that specializes in that area?

I'm thinking of looking towards a company that needs a communication department. In Calgary that likely means I'll be looking towards some sort of oil and gas. I'm looking at sports teams as well.


What kind of communications degree do you have? When I got out of school, I became a 'social media manager', which is a really awesome and newly created job in most companies. The freedom you have in the job is amazing. Convince a company you like in your area that they need a social media presence (or a better social media presence) and you've got yourself a job!

I have an English Degree and I've almost got a Journalism certificate. I would love doing the 'social media manager' thing. I've done a lot of the self promotion through a website I work at (gamerwok.com). The nice thing about the program I'm in right now is that they include public relations classes since that's pretty much the dark side of journalism anyways.

ThatGirl
01-26-2012, 12:44 PM
I'm thinking of looking towards a company that needs a communication department. In Calgary that likely means I'll be looking towards some sort of oil and gas. I'm looking at sports teams as well.



I have an English Degree and I've almost got a Journalism certificate. I would love doing the 'social media manager' thing. I've done a lot of the self promotion through a website I work at (gamerwok.com). The nice thing about the program I'm in right now is that they include public relations classes since that's pretty much the dark side of journalism anyways.

Marketing yourself as a Corporate Social Media Coordinator is great right now because it's something companies do need, but they don't even know it yet. I think most savvy HR teams would respond to a resume that listed that as a job title or target! Sports team communications would be so much fun. You may also want to try CPRail. I know they have a communications team - as do some of the board organizations like ERCB or AUC. :)

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-26-2012, 01:20 PM
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7927/13647762.jpg

Hooooooly shit hahahaha

JClemy
01-26-2012, 03:41 PM
Marketing yourself as a Corporate Social Media Coordinator is great right now because it's something companies do need, but they don't even know it yet. I think most savvy HR teams would respond to a resume that listed that as a job title or target! Sports team communications would be so much fun. You may also want to try CPRail. I know they have a communications team - as do some of the board organizations like ERCB or AUC. :)

Thanks. I spoke to someone at the ERCB about this stuff and the guy seemed interested. I actually wrote an article about energy and a council committee that the AUC was loosely involved in and I never even thought to look at jobs. I feel like there are many things I haven't thought of but need to look into.

CP Rail would be interesting because there would likely be good travel opportunities.

I actually thought I was too late to the social media thing until I volunteered at the Mac's Midget tournament this year (They did a great job of it). A lot of people are just learning to get into it still. I thought as soon as my mom got twitter I was late to the party with working at it. :)

ThatGirl
01-26-2012, 08:11 PM
You aren't late to the party at all! Companies are only just starting to embrace what social networking can mean and how critical it can be to success. Mayor Naheed Nenshi's campaign was centered around social networking and it worked famously. It's a strong example for companies to follow, particularly when the purchasing demographic are the prime social networking user base.

Neighborhood Creep
01-26-2012, 08:15 PM
Teach me how to land a real job with no college education except 8 months of welding school.

ThatGirl
01-26-2012, 08:18 PM
Teach me how to land a real job with no college education except 8 months of welding school.

How much more school do you need to do in order to have an official welding certification and/or red seal type title?

JClemy
01-27-2012, 07:44 AM
You aren't late to the party at all! Companies are only just starting to embrace what social networking can mean and how critical it can be to success. Mayor Naheed Nenshi's campaign was centered around social networking and it worked famously. It's a strong example for companies to follow, particularly when the purchasing demographic are the prime social networking user base.

That campaign was amazing. I was really involved with the #yycvote and it definitely made more more involved in local politics than I've ever been. Looks like I'll be marketing myself as a social media guru.

marooko
01-27-2012, 10:40 AM
So I may be getting called in for a formal interview. I've never been to one. Any tips, from attire to any prep, would be greatly appreciated.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-27-2012, 11:12 AM
Just try not to spit for 5 minutes and don't wear something that reveals your scrotum.

Sleepingrock
01-27-2012, 11:13 AM
Teach me how to land a real job with no college education except 8 months of welding school.

Work on the rigs?

marooko
01-27-2012, 11:17 AM
Just try not to spit for 5 minutes and don't wear something that reveals your scrotum.

I was hoping for a little more, but this is probably a good start.

PlayaDelWes
01-27-2012, 11:39 AM
So I may be getting called in for a formal interview. I've never been to one. Any tips, from attire to any prep, would be greatly appreciated.

Do your research. Ask questions in the context of your research.
Talk yourself up, even for things you may not immediately think may be relevant. Be proud of everything you've done.
Refrain from using "We" in the context of what your team or your former employer did. Focus specifically on your role
Don't stop statements about "what you've done", but instead complete the thought with "...which resulted in..." or "...which was key because..."
Smile.
Rinse out your spittoon before hand.
When in doubt, keep talking, even about small talk. Look around the office or conference room to find something to keep in your hip pocket if the conversation reaches a breaking point.
People love to hear their names, so address the other person / people by their name a couple times.

marooko
01-27-2012, 11:44 AM
Do your research. Ask questions in the context of your research.


More on this please. Thank you.

PlayaDelWes
01-27-2012, 11:53 AM
More on this please. Thank you.
Google, vault, twitter, facebook, wiki, press releases, their website, SEC.gov, etc... Stalk them like you are obsessed.

ThatGirl
01-27-2012, 02:52 PM
I agree with most of this stuff but I have some notes on Wes' comments.


Do your research. Ask questions in the context of your research. - What Wes meant was that you should ask questions about the company based on what you learn while researching it, to demonstrate you have done your homework. ie) "I read on your website your company merged with ABC co. recently. How has that transition been going?" Talk yourself up, even for things you may not immediately think may be relevant. Be proud of everything you've done.
Refrain from using "We" in the context of what your team or your former employer did. Focus specifically on your role - THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT. When I hear "we did this" it makes me wonder if you could have done it alone. Don't stop statements about "what you've done", but instead complete the thought with "...which resulted in..." or "...which was key because..." - Yes this is similar to how you'd respond to a behavioral question. Thorough, tells the story. Smile.
Rinse out your spittoon before hand.
When in doubt, keep talking, even about small talk. Look around the office or conference room to find something to keep in your hip pocket if the conversation reaches a breaking point. - Now this I wouldn't recommend. I don't like ramblers that go on about nothing. Speak with purpose. If you have nothing to say, or have finished answering a question - but it feels like there is an awkward silence, simply ask, "have I answered this question appropriately, or would you like more detail?" Give them a chance to keep control of the interview and guide how it goes.
People love to hear their names, so address the other person / people by their name a couple times.

Remember the three key ingredients to successful interviewing are confidence, clarity and enthusiasm. And you can ask in advance what is considered appropriate to wear. Different offices have different standards and you want to appear as though you can fit it. If you show up in a 3 piece suit and everyone is in a golf shirt it can be awkward. Best of luck and I hope it goes amazingly well!!

ThatGirl
01-27-2012, 02:57 PM
Work on the rigs?

I have a friend that just started doing this up north, and while it pays well it's taking a toll on his body. He's already been injured once. That said he joined a different company and it's been going smoother.

Shaxspear
01-27-2012, 04:07 PM
What kind of advice do you have for STAR interviews?

DruggyFestivalGuy
01-27-2012, 06:25 PM
Should I just link potential employers to my message board profile page in lieu of sending a resume?

ThatGirl
01-28-2012, 07:48 AM
What kind of advice do you have for STAR interviews?

Star interviews are exactly the same as behavioral interviews, which I've noted in previous posts. You are asked a question about a situation you were once in, and need to describe what it was, what task/action you performed to address the situation and what the end result was. (S - situation T -Task A- Action - Result. ) The trouble with this type of interview is there are so many possible questions that can be asked. Here is a link for some examples of typical STAR questions. http://www.jobinterviewquestions.org/questions/behavioral-questions.asp

The best way to prepare for these questions is to review the job description for the role you applied to carefully. Look at the skills/requirements and think of examples in your own work where you have applied those skills and performed those tasks. Have a number of examples at top of mind and on the tip of your tongue when you go into your interview. Then when you are asked a question, draw from the real life examples you have thought of to respond to these situational questions. Not only will you be able to answer quickly and easilly, but you'll be citing examples that directly relate to the job you are interviewing for. :)

ThatGirl
01-28-2012, 07:49 AM
Should I just link potential employers to my message board profile page in lieu of sending a resume?

I guess it would depend on the sort of job you are applying for. :p

sonofhal
01-30-2012, 10:17 AM
http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/506680149.png?Expires=1327948356&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=tUE7NR96aVgawE4glqWLDtpKsvrVf825-~8v4m2QW9Mr5x5WfxioReoxrkpRS6uaw~WnYCJikV1QJfuiNAC EtH8oMdB3OcEWdCfyxTaog8vMjIsa9UHVmIkgbg6EoHrTISiOD Bhh5AoJ7f-JGWh0p0DhLNXGP2Sp~yidGHQxyuQ_

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 07:40 PM
Wish I could see what you posted Chris.

bobert
01-30-2012, 07:48 PM
ThatGirl. I need your help. Tomorrow I am interviewing for a position for which I am extremely under-qualified. While this does take some of the pressure off, I would still like to present myself in as professional a manner as possible. I haven't interviewed for a job in five years and need to dust the cobwebs off my resume. If you could look it over and give me any feedback I would love to buy you a drink at the festival (if you're attending.)

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 07:50 PM
Happy to help. I'll PM you my email address and if you send it to me I can look it over, but if your interview is tomorrow it doesn't give you much time for amendments. I'll do my best though!

Courtney
01-30-2012, 07:54 PM
ThatGirl, at one point in one's career does one graduate from a one-page resume to a two-page resume, and at what point from a two-page resume to a three-page resume?

And, as a related question, suppose I have been working in the same career field since I was 18 years old. How do I decide how many jobs back to list? At 29 years old, I am assuming that I should not include internships. What about industry-specific and relevant part-time jobs during college? What about during grad school?

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 08:02 PM
ThatGirl, at one point in one's career does one graduate from a one-page resume to a two-page resume, and at what point from a two-page resume to a three-page resume?

And, as a related question, suppose I have been working in the same career field since I was 18 years old. How do I decide how many jobs back to list? At 29 years old, I am assuming that I should not include internships. What about industry-specific and relevant part-time jobs during college? What about during grad school?


Ok - in reply to your first question - resume length is not as big an issue now because everything is transmitted electronically, and we're not dealing with piles and piles of paper anymore. We only print off what we have to. But less than 5 pages is recommended. If you have been in the same field for 10 years - then 3 or 4 pages is fine, depending on how much detail you need to describe your experience. As for what type of work to include - you should mention whatever is relevant in chronological order by date, and list your most recent experience first, and with the most detail, gradually offering less detail/bullet points as the work history becomes less recent. That way you're focusing more on your most current recently utilized skills. :) If you had an industry specific job or internship or something that enhances your experience you can mention it - but only if it's really relevant does it make it worthwhile - and keep details to a minimum. :)

bobert
01-30-2012, 08:03 PM
Happy to help. I'll PM you my email address and if you send it to me I can look it over, but if your interview is tomorrow it doesn't give you much time for amendments. I'll do my best though!

Emailed you my resume. Thanks so much for your help.

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 08:22 PM
Emailed you my resume. Thanks so much for your help.

Just sent you a summary of suggestions. Hope they are helpful! :)

Courtney
01-30-2012, 08:27 PM
Ok - in reply to your first question - resume length is not as big an issue now because everything is transmitted electronically, and we're not dealing with piles and piles of paper anymore. We only print off what we have to. But less than 5 pages is recommended. If you have been in the same field for 10 years - then 3 or 4 pages is fine, depending on how much detail you need to describe your experience. As for what type of work to include - you should mention whatever is relevant in chronological order by date, and list your most recent experience first, and with the most detail, gradually offering less detail/bullet points as the work history becomes less recent. That way you're focusing more on your most current recently utilized skills. :) If you had an industry specific job or internship or something that enhances your experience you can mention it - but only if it's really relevant does it make it worthwhile - and keep details to a minimum. :)

Thanks! This is very helpful.

JClemy
01-30-2012, 08:54 PM
This thread is awesome.

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 09:01 PM
This thread is awesome.

:o Awww shucks.

PlayaDelWes
01-30-2012, 09:20 PM
14 years into my career, I continue to limit myself to two pages. Am I underrepresenting myself?

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 09:26 PM
14 years into my career, I continue to limit myself to two pages. Am I underrepresenting myself?

I guess it depends on how much relevant detail you are excluding from your work history, that could help to demonstrate your abilities. Do you use a chronological or functional resume format?

PlayaDelWes
01-30-2012, 09:39 PM
I guess it depends on how much relevant detail you are excluding from your work history, that could help to demonstrate your abilities. Do you use a chronological or functional resume format?
I'm including it all, I just find that as I tack on more recent experience, I'm crispifying the statements about my earlier career from what were once paragraphs down to short statements. I'm torn between sticking to 2 pages, easy to read statements, or detailed job experiences.

My resume is chronological, but I really only have two parts to my career; the most recent tenure at the top and within the most recent tenure, the most recent job titles at the top.

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 09:59 PM
I'm including it all, I just find that as I tack on more recent experience, I'm crispifying the statements about my earlier career from what were once paragraphs down to short statements. I'm torn between sticking to 2 pages, easy to read statements, or detailed job experiences.

My resume is chronological, but I really only have two parts to my career; the most recent tenure at the top and within the most recent tenure, the most recent job titles at the top.

There is a chance you may be selling yourself short with lack of detail, but if you are focusing on accomplishments and the statements that truly capture your skill level and expertise then what you describe may be adequate, depending on what you do for a living. I tend to lean toward a chronological format as well - and it sounds like what you are doing makes sense. Can't say I wouldn't be curious to have a peek at it. :)

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-30-2012, 10:03 PM
Something popped into my head today. I'm a professional audio engineer, but I worked in retail for many years before that - since that's not relevant to my career, is it worth including in a resume? I was in school the entire time, so it won't appear that i was doing absolutely nothing.

Also, I've been employed at basically the same place my entire career, but it's client/rental-based and I have worked on lots of good projects - should I fill up a resume with a list of exceptional projects since my list of employers is so small?

PlayaDelWes
01-30-2012, 10:08 PM
Can't say I wouldn't be curious to have a peek at it. :)

Clean out your PMs

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 10:13 PM
Something popped into my head today. I'm a professional audio engineer, but I worked in retail for many years before that - since that's not relevant to my career, is it worth including in a resume? I was in school the entire time, so it won't appear that i was doing absolutely nothing.

Also, I've been employed at basically the same place my entire career, but it's client/rental-based and I have worked on lots of good projects - should I fill up a resume with a list of exceptional projects since my list of employers is so small?

Firstly - being in school isn't doing absolutely nothing... it's kind of viewed as full time work. So the work experience you get just to make ends meet while in school isn't as important unless it's career related. How many years have you been an audio engineer? When I hit about 8 years of recruiting experience, I took the experience I have in the past with retail and mention it as "Additional work history" from 1993 to 1999, listing only my employer name and dates - but no detail. That way it jives with the dates on my education and shows I was employed, just not in my field. If I were you I'd concentrate on building a great resume that highlights my career target and giving spotlight to the projects that you are most proud of, and downplay the other stuff depending on how long you have been in your current role. :)

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 10:16 PM
Clean out your PMs

Done - sorry about that! Capped out today.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-30-2012, 10:20 PM
I've been audio engineering for 7 years now, including internships and assistant positions, beginning while I was still getting my BA. I've worked on really excellent things, including 2 Grammy-nominated projects, and my list of projects is extremely eclectic, including video games, audio books, television shows, short films, talking gym equipment, iphone apps, etc etc. So I like to think my work speaks for itself. i guess being employed at the same place for a long time looks good, but I'm afraid potential employers might think I lack drive for not seeking employment with more pay earlier and just staying where I am.

ThatGirl
01-30-2012, 10:27 PM
I've been audio engineering for 7 years now, including internships and assistant positions, beginning while I was still getting my BA. I've worked on really excellent things, including 2 Grammy-nominated projects, and my list of projects is extremely eclectic, including video games, audio books, television shows, short films, talking gym equipment, iphone apps, etc etc. So I like to think my work speaks for itself. i guess being employed at the same place for a long time looks good, but I'm afraid potential employers might think I lack drive for not seeking employment with more pay earlier and just staying where I am.

Loyalty is rarely viewed as negative unless your background demonstrates stagnated growth or development. After only 7 years I don't think that's the case. It sounds like your career progression has been natural and noteworthy. Should you choose to step into a job search you may want some help in developing your resume to really showcase your skills - but given the types of projects you have done, it seems like the work you did during the pursuit of your education would be worth keeping in your resume for now. :)

PlayaDelWes
01-31-2012, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the solid feedback. Everything you said is fair and it certainly justifies moving from 2 pages to 3. I think I’ll go back to prior versions and pull in many of the details that have dropped off over time. Also, rather than leading-off with an objective or summary at the top, I’ve always considered that stuff soft fluff reserved for the cover letter, but I’ll give it a try vs. launching into the professional experience on the resume itself.

Thanks. You rock

ThatGirl
01-31-2012, 10:06 AM
Glad to help! :)

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
01-31-2012, 12:20 PM
Awesome, i really appreciate the input.

Another question - I moved up in positions at the same company: Intern - Assistant - Chief

I guess I should have all 3 titles in chronological order as different jobs, despite the fact they were all for the same employer?

ThatGirl
01-31-2012, 12:24 PM
Awesome, i really appreciate the input.

Another question - I moved up in positions at the same company: Intern - Assistant - Chief

I guess I should have all 3 titles in chronological order as different jobs, despite the fact they were all for the same employer?

This is a good idea - Breaking down the roles and, if you feel it's appropriate, even showing the dates you entered into each of these different roles within the company may help in distinguishing how your career developed and will demonstrate your growth path. :)

JClemy
02-02-2012, 03:58 PM
Had an interview today with our local hockey team about doing a practicum with them. Went very well. Excited so I wanted to add that here.

ThatGirl
02-02-2012, 05:43 PM
Had an interview today with our local hockey team about doing a practicum with them. Went very well. Excited so I wanted to add that here.

Yay! Is it NHL or WHL? That's so exciting!!!! Keep us posted!!!

OnlyNonStranger
02-02-2012, 05:57 PM
That is exciting! Congrats!

TICKETS

JClemy
02-02-2012, 10:32 PM
Yay! Is it NHL or WHL? That's so exciting!!!! Keep us posted!!!

NHL. It's just a practicum but I'm hoping there is a possibility of moving it into an actual job. t might actually be in their web department which would be pretty awesome.

sonofhal
02-03-2012, 12:50 AM
Wish I could see what you posted Chris.

It was my CV. Hope it works this time.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/506680149.png?Expires=1328259931&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=oliVnnto9bD-nopdot08I8IvbTCcl~YHVT8rsaoSNFAyAUNNkTiBnCbH3YzDxG 9zpix-q7V4iDReS40XIkZzs~idOFfSupgREHvoTkSxvgC2MlRlfcR4O6 kJWI82azqnYWnJRbNz5X5AMWoAHK4~35XPSdkKXxYqQ1N03N6i iaU_

ThatGirl
02-03-2012, 10:38 AM
It was my CV. Hope it works this time.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/506680149.png?Expires=1328259931&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=oliVnnto9bD-nopdot08I8IvbTCcl~YHVT8rsaoSNFAyAUNNkTiBnCbH3YzDxG 9zpix-q7V4iDReS40XIkZzs~idOFfSupgREHvoTkSxvgC2MlRlfcR4O6 kJWI82azqnYWnJRbNz5X5AMWoAHK4~35XPSdkKXxYqQ1N03N6i iaU_

Nope.

sonofhal
02-03-2012, 10:54 AM
I can see it.

Linkage!

http://twitpic.com/8dnwwl

marooko
02-06-2012, 09:46 AM
How important is a cover letter?

ThatGirl
02-06-2012, 11:29 AM
How important is a cover letter?

A cover letter is pretty important. It's different from the resume in that it explains why you want to work for and fit that particular company and job - where your resume should be tailored so you can use it to apply for multiple jobs. You should always customize a cover letter for this reason. If a company only wants a resume, then that's all you should send. But when it doubt, make a cover letter to go with it.

herro kitty
02-28-2012, 03:57 PM
Hi ThatGirl,

I recently got my RN license in California (yaaaay) but am now so intimidated by the terrifying job market. Do you have any tips for interviews? Also, do letters of recommendation mean anything?

ThatGirl
02-29-2012, 07:50 AM
Hi ThatGirl,

I recently got my RN license in California (yaaaay) but am now so intimidated by the terrifying job market. Do you have any tips for interviews? Also, do letters of recommendation mean anything?

Congrats on getting your RN license! If you have interviews lined up the best thing to do is go in with confidence. You may be feeling intimidated but as I understand there is great demand for qualified nurses pretty much everywhere. When do your interviews take place, and how many do you have lined up?

Also, if you don't have any work experience yet, bringing letters of recommendation is good, but don't be surprised if your interviewers want to speak to those who wrote the letters directly - to ask specific questions and also to verify the content of the letter.

JClemy
02-29-2012, 12:26 PM
Hi ThatGirl,

I recently got my RN license in California (yaaaay) but am now so intimidated by the terrifying job market. Do you have any tips for interviews? Also, do letters of recommendation mean anything?

Congrats on passing the test!

herro kitty
03-05-2012, 04:34 PM
I brought my letters of recommendation but felt too shy to give them to the interviewer :( But I will next time!!

Do people still do the practice of sending "thank you" letters to the offices after they get interviewed? I bought some stationary to do it, but I wasn't sure if an email or a phone call is better nowadays.

bobert
03-05-2012, 04:43 PM
I brought my letters of recommendation but felt too shy to give them to the interviewer :( But I will next time!!

Do people still do the practice of sending "thank you" letters to the offices after they get interviewed? I bought some stationary to do it, but I wasn't sure if an email or a phone call is better nowadays.

Follow up after your interview, either by phone or email. I'd refrain from using any kind of stationary. Just thank them for the time they took to interview you and reiterate your interest in the position. There are varying opinions on how long you should wait after your interview to do this, but don't wait too long. I followed up two weeks after my latest interview and I regret not doing it sooner.

herro kitty
03-05-2012, 04:50 PM
I feel like emailing isn't as cool as a cute card :/............ But I will email for a followup if you say so...

What should I say?

"Hi Mr. Soandso,

May I know the status of my application?

Sincerely,
Barb"

That seems so blunt. =/

Courtney
03-05-2012, 04:59 PM
Barb, IMHO you should follow up as soon as possible and no later than 48 hours after the interview if possible. E-mail or hard copy snail mail note is ok. A thank you note should contain:

(1) Thank you for taking the time to see me
(2) I am still interested
(3) Here is proof I was paying attention when we were talking because I am going to mention some very specific thing you said or I am now following up on something we talked about

If you hit those three key points, you should be good. If you would like to include an additional question, then you can do that as well.

herro kitty
03-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Crap. It's been a week since my interview. I wrote a nice snail letter anyway because the doctor was really nice and patient with me and I wanted to thank him for that.

How unprofessional is it to use a very small circular sticker of a cat saying "YOU'RE #1!" as the seal? .... 'Cause too late either way. Haha

ThatGirl
03-05-2012, 07:12 PM
Crap. It's been a week since my interview. I wrote a nice snail letter anyway because the doctor was really nice and patient with me and I wanted to thank him for that.

How unprofessional is it to use a very small circular sticker of a cat saying "YOU'RE #1!" as the seal? .... 'Cause too late either way. Haha

In future I'd say no to the sticker. Cute won't get you anywhere when it comes to job related stuff. Just keep it straightforward and professional, but still friendly. It's good you wrote a letter.

Typically -the time at which you write your thank you note should be dependent upon when you can expect to get feedback. Before the close of the initial interview, it's always helpful to ask what the next step in the process and the timeline which you can expect to receive feedback. That way it takes the guess work out of when to reach out to say thank you, or request updates if that timeline has passed. Also the method you send the thank you should be in their preferred form of communication. Do they call you? Email you? Follow suit based on what they are doing.

Thanks everyone for contributing suggestions also! :)

herro kitty
03-06-2012, 01:34 PM
I saw that the office reposted their ad on craigslist.. so I'm assuming that I didn't get the job. :(

My mom's friend knows someone that is looking for a RN to work in a small low-income clinic, so I went in today and followed the nurses around. It's not much, but it's a start. I'm really hoping to get into a hospital job though.

Growing up sucks.

Shaxspear
03-06-2012, 01:52 PM
Move to Canada. There's over 300 open nursing positions in my province alone.

ThatGirl
03-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Move to Canada. There's over 300 open nursing positions in my province alone.

Yes -if you were interesting in living here there is a need for nurses all over Canada, especially RN's. You'd likely have no trouble getting a work permit.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
03-06-2012, 02:59 PM
the only catch is that you have to live in a cave and your patients will be wolves.

OnlyNonStranger
03-06-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm going to murder you in your sleep Drinkey.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
03-06-2012, 03:17 PM
too bad I can't hear you over these California waves bro!

OnlyNonStranger
03-06-2012, 03:27 PM
Damn it.

ThatGirl
03-06-2012, 03:58 PM
too bad I can't hear you over these California waves bro!

Yeah we can't hear you either Drinkey... the soothing sound of our free-of-charge health care system humming right along is like music to my ears.

marooko
03-06-2012, 04:42 PM
too bad I can't hear you over these California waves bro!

hahaha! This was great. Reminds me of: "You don't have to shovel sunshine."

sassypants
03-06-2012, 06:19 PM
I interviewed a candidate for my team this week. She provided an excellent example of what NOT to do. Such as...forget you had the interview scheduled, fail at providing a single concrete example for standard behavioral interview questions and when asked what appealed to her about this position, respond "I'm not sure which position this is, I've applied to so many positions".

massive fail.

marooko
03-06-2012, 08:00 PM
In her defense, I know the feeling of applying to so many places that you're not sure which position is available at the place that called. But I knew I couldn't show up without knowing, so I searched the phone number and got the necessary information.

ThatGirl
03-07-2012, 06:53 AM
In her defense, I know the feeling of applying to so many places that you're not sure which position is available at the place that called. But I knew I couldn't show up without knowing, so I searched the phone number and got the necessary information.

I usually tell candidates that are applying to several roles to keep a spreadsheet and track them, especially if they are working with Recruiting agencies that are submitting resumes on their behalf. It's very important to keep track. The girl that Sassypants mentioned should have done what you did and at least figured it out before going to the interview. Having a cavalier attitude like that just won't fly in an interview setting.

marooko
03-07-2012, 07:23 AM
I can't imagine it would, that's pretty stupid.

Dude, I'm over the apply/interview thing. Am I hired or what?!

Sleepingrock
04-11-2012, 04:01 PM
Hey, Thatgirl.

I am looking for summer work as a camp attendant this summer, do you have any tips for me in regards to recruiting companies and the best way to find possible work?

Thanks!

insbordnat
04-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Thank you letters - electronic or snail mail? I'm usually a snail mail person but I want to expedite this.

OnlyNonStranger
04-11-2012, 08:23 PM
Email, within 24 hours.

ThatGirl
04-19-2012, 02:39 PM
Hey, Thatgirl.

I am looking for summer work as a camp attendant this summer, do you have any tips for me in regards to recruiting companies and the best way to find possible work?

Thanks!

Hey - Sorry I didn't catch this! If you are looking for summer employment the best thing to do is contact agencies that focus in Temp employment or Student recruiting. Local government websites may be helpful as well since many municipalites set up Day Camp or weekly camp programs for kids. I would suggest you put together a resume that describes your past experience in this particular area and be sure to be your application in early so to avoid the "grad rush" in May. You can also search for lists of summer camps in your area and then send contact emails out expressing your interest in working for the camp, even if they don't have an application process ready on their website.

Good luck and let me know how it goes!

ThatGirl
04-19-2012, 02:40 PM
Email, within 24 hours.

Thanks Stranger - for helping cover me in not seeing this post sooner! Yes Email within a day or so is very acceptable, indicating that you look forward to hearing the result. Snail mail will seems dated and is, honestly, no longer a preferred method of communication, particularly when the hiring process may be moving faster than the postal service.

Sleepingrock
04-19-2012, 03:11 PM
Hey - Sorry I didn't catch this! If you are looking for summer employment the best thing to do is contact agencies that focus in Temp employment or Student recruiting. Local government websites may be helpful as well since many municipalites set up Day Camp or weekly camp programs for kids. I would suggest you put together a resume that describes your past experience in this particular area and be sure to be your application in early so to avoid the "grad rush" in May. You can also search for lists of summer camps in your area and then send contact emails out expressing your interest in working for the camp, even if they don't have an application process ready on their website.

Good luck and let me know how it goes!

Thanks! While my original intention wasn't actual summer camps, that is a good idea. I was originally referring to camp attendant work up north. For a situation like that should I apply to agencies that still focus on temp employment or companies that specialize in camps?

ThatGirl
04-19-2012, 05:10 PM
Thanks! While my original intention wasn't actual summer camps, that is a good idea. I was originally referring to camp attendant work up north. For a situation like that should I apply to agencies that still focus on temp employment or companies that specialize in camps?

Oh! If it's oilfield support work you want there are several websites for oil and gas jobs advertising for needs in camps. Google energy, exploration, any Agency or company with needs in that area will be looking. Oilfieldworkers.com
May be a good place to start, if that's the kind of work you are seeking!

Sleepingrock
04-20-2012, 09:44 AM
Thanks! Off to do more searching.

SoulDischarge
04-30-2012, 03:18 PM
Do I need an objective on my resume if I'm just applying for dead end jobs I'm only planning on sticking around for a month or two at?

ThatGirl
05-01-2012, 11:14 AM
Do I need an objective on my resume if I'm just applying for dead end jobs I'm only planning on sticking around for a month or two at?

An objective can be tweaked to cater to the job you are applying for. Even if it's a dead end job you are trying to get, you owe it to yourself to at least make them THINK you actually want the job. The question I want to ask you is why aren't you applying for the job you really want? ;)

SoulDischarge
05-01-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm working on getting my chauffeur's license but bureaucracy is making it take longer and cost more than I anticipated, so I need something to hold me over until I get it and can start driving a cab.

ThatGirl
05-01-2012, 08:22 PM
I'm working on getting my chauffeur's license but bureaucracy is making it take longer and cost more than I anticipated, so I need something to hold me over until I get it and can start driving a cab.

So I guess the most important thing here, if I'm to quote the movie Boiler Room is, Act As If. Act as if you want the job, and hopefully you'll look right for it. Make it look good on paper for the time being, and hopefully it will be enough to get you a job that can tide you over. Good luck - and keep me posted :)

getbetter
06-04-2012, 06:33 PM
How do you go about describing two different jobs you have had that are basically the same description?

ThatGirl
06-10-2012, 02:31 PM
How do you go about describing two different jobs you have had that are basically the same description?

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond - the thread hasn't been coming up in new posts where I usually look for it.

You can try to distinguish between the roles by switching up some of the wording in your bullet points, or making note of some of the subtle differences like the size of your team, size and scope of the groups you are supporting or responsible for. It's ok to use some of the same phrases when describing general responsibilities, but be sure to add in any responsibilities or accomplishments that make the role unique in your profile. Accomplishment based points in your resume can really help it stand out!

ThatGirl
06-10-2012, 02:34 PM
I've requested an email notification for my thread subscription, so I can be alerted to questions faster. :) Sorry again about delayed replies!

guedita
06-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond - the thread hasn't been coming up in new posts where I usually look for it.

You can try to distinguish between the roles by switching up some of the wording in your bullet points, or making note of some of the subtle differences like the size of your team, size and scope of the groups you are supporting or responsible for. It's ok to use some of the same phrases when describing general responsibilities, but be sure to add in any responsibilities or accomplishments that make the role unique in your profile. Accomplishment based points in your resume can really help it stand out!

Make 'em sound different.

ThatGirl
06-10-2012, 08:50 PM
Make 'em sound different. Cara I'm making it sound like I'm providing a valuable service here. Help a sister out.

getbetter
06-10-2012, 08:52 PM
I think she was translating it for me .

ThatGirl
06-10-2012, 08:54 PM
I think she was translating it for me .

It made me laugh. Humor aside though... accomplishment based points...they can make a big difference. :)

getbetter
06-10-2012, 09:00 PM
It made me laugh. Humor aside though... accomplishment based points...they can make a big difference. :)

I got some new ideas to tell the differences in my last two jobs;as size of team and differences in the production line.

ThatGirl
06-10-2012, 09:06 PM
I got some new ideas to tell the differences in my last two jobs;as size of team and differences in the production line.

Every little bit helps! :)

bug on your lip
06-11-2012, 07:21 AM
Can they tell i'm not wearing underwear during the interview?

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 11:42 AM
Can they tell i'm not wearing underwear during the interview?

If you are interviewing to be a stripper I'd say probably, yes.

locachica73
06-11-2012, 12:26 PM
I sent my resume out to about 20 companies yesterday, I already got a call back from one company. It wasn't the right fit because it is another small mom & pop company with a two woman office and poor benefits, but it felt good to know my resume made the top of the pile.

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 12:28 PM
I sent my resume out to about 20 companies yesterday, I already got a call back from one company. It wasn't the right fit because it is another small mom & pop company with a two woman office and poor benefits, but it felt good to know my resume made the top of the pile.

That's awesome! I hope some of the suggestions I made for your resume helped make a difference :)

locachica73
06-11-2012, 12:30 PM
I think they did, thank you so much. :)

amyzzz
06-11-2012, 12:37 PM
Audra, that must be so encouraging. Keep sending out the resumes! :)

locachica73
06-11-2012, 02:12 PM
It is very encouraging. I have also recieved calls from people who found me on Linkedin and careerbuilders. I am actually getting excited. I can smell freedom!!!!

OnlyNonStranger
06-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Is LinkedIn actually important to have?

OnlyNonStranger
06-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Also, I'm trying to transition into another position at work. I have all the supporting players behind me except the person that makes the decision.

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 08:49 PM
Is LinkedIn actually important to have?

LinkedIn has become the Facebook of work. It is a public testament to your ability to network and a way to recognition from colleagues. Think of it as a public resume. It is important to anyone that wants more visibility, corporately. The other day I came across an old resume for someone I thought I may want to interview, so I looked for him on LinkedIn to get his current info. He had no profile, and I did not call him.

OnlyNonStranger
06-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Even if I'm not actively seeking another job?

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Also, I'm trying to transition into another position at work. I have all the supporting players behind me except the person that makes the decision.

Why does this manager not support the transition? Do you know?

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Even if I'm not actively seeking another job?

Yes..its like Facebook for your professional life, it's tells your work story. I am on LinkedIn several times a day.

OnlyNonStranger
06-11-2012, 08:54 PM
Why does this manager not support the transition? Do you know?

Yes, I do know. It's hard to explain without giving too much information about my job.

COUGHTINYCHATCOUGH

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 08:54 PM
Yes, I do know. It's hard to explain without giving too much information about my job.

COUGHTINYCHATCOUGH

Bwhahaha be right there

locachica73
06-11-2012, 09:01 PM
I got a call from the head hunter I interviewed with on thursday. The company I am really interested in wants me to interview. I go Thursday after work. I was the only one who got an interview of all the people she submitted. Yay me!

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 09:39 PM
I got a call from the head hunter I interviewed with on thursday. The company I am really interested in wants me to interview. I go Thursday after work. I was the only one who got an interview of all the people she submitted. Yay me!

Double yay!!! So excited for you!

insbordnat
06-11-2012, 09:53 PM
So I'm resigning from my job of 9 years tomorrow (posted in confessions, but really should have gone here). I'm really not looking forward to giving notice, especially since our office is short so many people. I mean, SO many people. Any words of encouragement would help.

ThatGirl
06-11-2012, 09:54 PM
So I'm resigning from my job of 9 years tomorrow (posted in confessions, but really should have gone here). I'm really not looking forward to giving notice, especially since our office is short so many people. I mean, SO many people. Any words of encouragement would help.
Do you have a brief, professional letter prepared?

insbordnat
06-12-2012, 07:58 AM
Yes, I'm good to go with my letter.

locachica73
06-12-2012, 08:14 AM
What are your thoughts on being brutally honest when writing your letter of resignation? I deal with a lot of ridiculousness at my current job. I know there is a lot to be said about not burning bridges, but I feel that the owner of this company should have the light shined on his company a little bit. I don't want it to be bitter, it's really not, but more of an explanation as to why he needs to take a better look at his management style and his managers who currently work for him.

ThatGirl
06-12-2012, 08:16 AM
What are your thoughts on being brutally honest when writing your letter of resignation? I deal with a lot of ridiculousness at my current job. I know there is a lot to be said about not burning bridges, but I feel that the owner of this company should have the light shined on his company a little bit. I don't want it to be bitter, it's really not, but more of an explanation as to why he needs to take a better look at his management style and his managers who currently work for him.

Never put anything about why you are resigning in a letter. EVER. If HR contacts you for an exit interview that is your opportunity to discuss your feelings about leaving and why. But your letter should only explain that you are leaving, effective what date, and thanking them for the opportunities afforded you.

ThatGirl
06-12-2012, 08:20 AM
Yes, I'm good to go with my letter.

If you are concerned that others will be upset that you are leaving, try to be as positive as possible about the new opportunity in front of you and don't dwell on the negative. You are first and foremost loyal to yourself and not your company - so the decision you have made is about your needs. Just thank your leader for what you've learned there, and let them know you'll miss the team. The exit you make is the last thing they remember about you so it's important to handle it gracefully.

locachica73
06-12-2012, 08:31 AM
Never put anything about why you are resigning in a letter. EVER. If HR contacts you for an exit interview that is your opportunity to discuss your feelings about leaving and why. But your letter should only explain that you are leaving, effective what date, and thanking them for the opportunities afforded you.

There will be no exit interview, there isn't even an HR dept. OK, I do feel there are a few things he should know, but you are probably right, I should just leave it alone and be glad I get to escape.

ThatGirl
06-12-2012, 08:35 AM
There will be no exit interview, there isn't even an HR dept. OK, I do feel there are a few things he should know, but you are probably right, I should just leave it alone and be glad I get to escape.

Yes. Anything you put in writing can come back to haunt you - and you never know when you may need to get a reference from someone in the company ...you don't want to give them any reason to hesitate. :)

Robin
06-12-2012, 08:37 AM
There will be no exit interview, there isn't even an HR dept. OK, I do feel there are a few things he should know, but you are probably right, I should just leave it alone and be glad I get to escape.

If there is no Exit Interview, then request a meeting with him (or the person you feel should know the information) on your last day. Be as professional as possible, though. Try to stray away from the "you suck as a supervisor," to more of a "I feel that this, this, and this would greatly increase productivity and efficiency within the company."

ThatGirl
06-12-2012, 08:41 AM
If there is no Exit Interview, then request a meeting with him (or the person you feel should know the information) on your last day. Be as professional as possible, though. Try to stray away from the "you suck as a supervisor," to more of a "I feel that this, this, and this would greatly increase productivity and efficiency within the company."

I would say that making the choice to do this depends on whether you think they are seeking your feedback. I wouldn't suggest doing this unless they ask you to divulge your thoughts, but if you feel you must be heard, tread carefully. :)

PlayaDelWes
06-12-2012, 08:50 AM
In addition use language that speaks to the position you are leaving in the third person. "The role could benefit by..."

Robin
06-12-2012, 08:53 AM
I would say that making the choice to do this depends on whether you think they are seeking your feedback. I wouldn't suggest doing this unless they ask you to divulge your thoughts, but if you feel you must be heard, tread carefully. :)

I would never recommend doing this, unless you truly want something to be said, and it sounds like she wants to say something.

But definitely tread carefully. Not sure how well documentation is at your company, Loca, but I know that every work-related meeting I have, I document and file it. I noticed that smaller companies are more susceptible to releasing more information about a former employee than larger corporations. If you feel that having this meeting might hinder your ability to obtain future employment, then I would strongly advise against it.

locachica73
06-12-2012, 08:53 AM
Ok, thanks for the input. I probably won't say anything, but I also feel a little bad for whoever they find to take my place. I want to put a big warning sign on the door.

kitt kat
06-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Not a job search question, but it is job related...

So I've been at this job for almost 2 years. That is a long time. I got a new title about a year and a half in, but not a raise. I work for a major company with offices across the US.

I'm also "technically" not a "real employee" of this company I'm still a "contract worker," which means I work 40 hours a week for no benefits and I am paid by the hour; I get no paid time off, no 401K and no business cards even! They do this with a lot of our copy editors and photo editors who work 20 hours a week and the graveyard shifts but I'm here normal hours and I have a hell of a lot more responsibility than the average contract worker. I'm basically editorial's main line into the sales department and tell the sales people what we, as the editorial dept, are OK with pushing and why/why not. Blah blah blah.

Anyway...I need more money. I did a little research, and someone with my qualifications and experience should be making anywhere from $56k-$67k. I wish I was making that much!! I'm not even close to that low figure. I make sub-entry level pay, basically. I could EASILY leave for another job that pays over double what I make here; I just like working here because they're understandable with school and allow me to come in earlier/stay later for my one class that falls during work hours.

So "real employees" get a yearly review; I, as a contract employee, do not. These reviews are where people ask for raises. I would like a raise. I emailed my boss asking if I could get a review anyway, but it was after he left today.

Basically wondering:

1. Do I even have any clout here in asking for a raise? I've never been given a raise here.
2. Should I ask to be made a "Real employee" or just for the raise? I would like to start a 401k soon because I am bad at saving $$ on my own.
3. How should I go about asking for a raise?
5. What is a realistic raise for someone who is paid hourly?

EDIT: A year from now, I will have an MA in the field I am working in.

Robin
06-12-2012, 07:11 PM
Not a job search question, but it is job related...

So I've been at this job for almost 2 years. That is a long time. I got a new title about a year and a half in, but not a raise. I work for a major company with offices across the US.

I'm also "technically" not a "real employee" of this company — I'm still a "contract worker," which means I work 40 hours a week for no benefits and I am paid by the hour; I get no paid time off, no 401K and no business cards even! They do this with a lot of our copy editors and photo editors who work 20 hours a week and the graveyard shifts — but I'm here normal hours and I have a hell of a lot more responsibility than the average contract worker. I'm basically editorial's main line into the sales department and tell the sales people what we, as the editorial dept, are OK with pushing and why/why not. Blah blah blah.

Anyway...I need more money. I did a little research, and someone with my qualifications and experience should be making anywhere from $56k-$67k. I wish I was making that much!! I'm not even close to that low figure. I make sub-entry level pay, basically. I could EASILY leave for another job that pays over double what I make here; I just like working here because they're understandable with school and allow me to come in earlier/stay later for my one class that falls during work hours.

So "real employees" get a yearly review; I, as a contract employee, do not. These reviews are where people ask for raises. I would like a raise. I emailed my boss asking if I could get a review anyway, but it was after he left today.

Basically wondering:

1. Do I even have any clout here in asking for a raise? I've never been given a raise here.
2. Should I ask to be made a "Real employee" or just for the raise? I would like to start a 401k soon because I am bad at saving $$ on my own.
3. How should I go about asking for a raise?
5. What is a realistic raise for someone who is paid hourly?

EDIT: A year from now, I will have an MA in the field I am working in.

One of the biggest reasons I see with them keeping you as contract and not a regular employee is that you are in school. They may think you are going to leave once you graduate. Keep in mind that it may be hard to find another job that will be flexible with your school hours.

In regards to your concerns:
1. You have every right to ask for more money if you feel it is warranted. Just make sure you are prepared to list your current job functions and reasonable explanations as to why you're worth more than what you're making.
2. Asking to be a regular employee can be a little sticky since you need flexible hours. Are part time employees eligible for 401K?
3. Set up a meeting. Asking your boss for a review is a good starting point. If your review comes back positive, then follow #1. BE CONFIDENT.
4. Where's #4?
5. Check the market for your area. Don't overshoot though. A lot of companies usually only give 2-5% raises around review time.

Courtney
06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
One of the biggest reasons I see with them keeping you as contract and not a regular employee is that you are in school. They may think you are going to leave once you graduate.

...Or they are just being cheap and don't want to pay her insurance and stuff if they don't have to? I see that happen a lot, especially in the publishing industry. A lot of magazines I write for have laid off full-time writers and just taken more pieces from freelancers. It's kind of shitty, but they do it.

Robin
06-12-2012, 07:16 PM
...Or they are just being cheap and don't want to pay her insurance and stuff if they don't have to? I see that happen a lot, especially in the publishing industry. A lot of magazines I write for have laid off full-time writers and just taken more pieces from freelancers. It's kind of shitty, but they do it.

That too. At my last job, we would hire a bunch of contractors. We would make them full time if they asked, though because we didn't want to lose them. But that was for medical device, so we needed their knowledge of our product instead of trying to find someone new.

kitt kat
06-12-2012, 07:16 PM
I dunno where #4 went, but there was one and I forgot it.

I am only in school part time, and have no summer classes right now. I only have one class in the fall and it is an evening class, so it will fall outside of work hours. Basically, since school ended in early May, I am here M-F, 10-7. Before that, I would come in a little later on Fridays and stay later for my morning class.

I don't work in what you would consider a traditional 9-5 office; there are people here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So, the whole regular employee/flexible hours thing isn't really an issue. One of our higher ups works Tues-Saturday, one of our main copy chiefs comes in starting at 5pm...

I dunno what 5% would work out to hourly, though. If my salary now is grossly low compared to the same position at other companies, can't I ask to be brought up more to that level? I would like to make $50k, which is even underneath what I should be making.

EDIT: Yeah, I think the contractor is more for the part timers; I was originally supposed to be 25/hrs a week when I was first hird, but then was brought up to 40/hrs a week in my first month because they realized I was worth keeping around.

If I left, they'd be screwed. Since the boss who hired me left about a year ago, I am the only person in this office who knows how do to some pretty important stuff here. Also, I am the only one who knows HTML.

Robin
06-12-2012, 07:24 PM
Ummm.... take your hourly rate and multiply it by 1.05. That should equal a 5% raise. If you're wondering what your annual salary is, then take your hourly rate and multiply it by 2080.

Please refer to my answer for #1. Write it down and bring it to your boss' attention.

You can ask to be brought up to any level you want, but it might not be a smart move if that level is $20K more than what you're making now. Unfortunately, I do not know your industry nor your job duties, so I can't fully give you my advice on what is acceptable. Maybe something reasonable would be $3-5/hour? That equates to approx $6K - 10k per year.

Robin
06-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Just know that there is the chance for denial, especially if the company is cheap.

kitt kat
06-12-2012, 08:22 PM
Will definitely do #1. Thanks!

ThatGirl
06-12-2012, 08:52 PM
Wow thanks for the back up folks. I only have my phone on me now and responding to Katt's query is not realistic right at the moment. But I will weigh in when I get home !!

PlayaDelWes
06-12-2012, 09:06 PM
Kat, first off you are awesome. You’re attractive, talented, and may I suggest the confidence and control you seem to be taking of your career right now be inspiration for deploying that in your dating life.

Everything that Robin said is spot on. Not to belittle it, but convincing your boss may actually be the easy part. If your passion for your job comes off this well on an internet message board I’m sure he / she has noticed it firsthand. Follow Robin’s advice to get your boss on the same page.

Once there, your boss can help you with the hard part and has nothing to do with you or your performance. Think about it in terms of a ‘Role’. In most larger companies, a position / role precedes the actual associate or employee. And in that situation, converting a role from Nonexempt to Exempt is something where others (HR) need to get involved. In the extreme case, it may be as hard as creating a new position, getting all sorts of necessary approvals, and then posting it. Even in the simplest of situations though, it may take some time operationally.

So when you discuss with your boss, do all the things Robin said first, but get through those quickly. Be confident, direct, and short. Use phrases like “Although I may need some flexibility with my schedule, I’m effectively in a full time position as is”, “As you can appreciate, school is very important to me, but I’m also committed to this company and loyalty is something you can see I value deeply.” Your manager should be on the same page as you very quickly.

That’s when you need to shift the focus to getting this done. A good transition would be “Who do we need to work with to convert this position to full-time?” and then “What can I do to help?”. Offering to help with the logistics will get their brain thinking on what they need to do to get this done. And that really is the hard part; convincing your boss to do work in support of you. But it’s up to you to keep pushing that, not in the “I deserve it" tone, but the “What’s the status of this” tone.

Best of luck

...Or they are just being cheap and don't want to pay her insurance and stuff if they don't have to? I see that happen a lot, especially in the publishing industry. A lot of magazines I write for have laid off full-time writers and just taken more pieces from freelancers. It's kind of shitty, but they do it.Lazy and predictable comment. Unless an employee is proactive about their career, like Kat is doing right now, status quo is the status quo and will be until the discussion is forced.

Robin
06-12-2012, 09:22 PM
Thanks, Wes!
My bosses have always been in HR, so I never had to go through a "chain of command" when requesting things. Some very good input.

Kat: Also find out what you want more. The raise or regular full time status (benefits eligible)? If the company can't give you everything you're asking for, be ready to negotiate.

Courtney
06-12-2012, 09:35 PM
Dang. First dissed by BD, then dissed by PDW. Today's not my night. Although yes, you were correct that it was a lazy post.

My point was simply that it's probably not a question of Kat's work quality or school.status. It's probably a question of bottom line for the company. If they can get a freelancer to do the exact same work as an on-staff employee, and the freelancer is cheaper, it's pretty much a no-brainer. So, as Robin rightly suggested above, it's up to Kat to make the case for transitioning her job and why that will be in the best interest of the company.

kitt kat
06-12-2012, 09:41 PM
Thanks, everyone. This is great. I was able to convince two bosses to let me stay on when I enrolled in grad school, so I think this (while tougher) should be feasible if I stick to a plan.

More so than being a full employee within the company (and not in the temp agency), I think I would need the raise more. I still have two years eligible on my parents' health insurance, and I am happy with that coverage right now. I could open a 401k on my own. Money? Well, that has to come from somewhere. I'm freelancing more, but the pay is only a few hundred dollars a month. I could use an extra $100-$300 a week for sure.

ThatGirl
06-12-2012, 11:47 PM
Hey everyone - you all made some valid points - I did agree with what Robin and Wes both had to say. While I think you need to consider the flexibility you have there while finishing school - if you can demonstrate the value you are adding comparitive to the market despite the flex you are given - you have a case for an increase. Best thing is to do your research and approach the process formally. But be prepared for the possibility that since you aren't an employee you may not have the influence you would like. Hopefully they will see your contributions for what they are and meet you somewhere halfway.

RotationSlimWang
06-13-2012, 12:07 AM
Has anyone else considered that perhaps the reason they're not taking on Kat full time is that she's fucking useless?

Anyone?

Seriously, Kat, what the fuck do you do? Give me one example of something you did well.

ThatGirl
06-13-2012, 06:28 AM
Has anyone else considered that perhaps the reason they're not taking on Kat full time is that she's fucking useless?

Anyone?

Seriously, Kat, what the fuck do you do? Give me one example of something you did well.

I get that you think you're funny - but this thread isn't a forum for you to needlessly shit on others. Ths is purely to help people out. GTFO and find some other thread to poison.

Robin
06-13-2012, 08:23 AM
Has anyone else considered that perhaps the reason they're not taking on Kat full time is that she's fucking useless?

Anyone?

Seriously, Kat, what the fuck do you do? Give me one example of something you did well.

Kat stated that she started there with part time hours, and they quickly gave her full time. I'd like to think she's doing something right. Also, she has been there for 2 years as a contract employee. In my experience, contract and temp employees are the easiest to cut hours or get rid of if they are not working at a level we expect.

guedita
06-13-2012, 10:12 AM
What is "business acumen?"

Because I tell people I have it.

ThatGirl
06-13-2012, 10:15 AM
What is "business acumen?"

Because I tell people I have it.

Hey I figure if you have the business acumen to tell people that you have it, you probably know already. ;)

guedita
06-13-2012, 10:32 AM
Well that wasn't helpful.

ThatGirl
06-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Well that wasn't helpful.

Fine fine lol... IMO business acumen is your level of understanding of how companies operate and the level of business maturity you bring to a work environment. This would be a learned quality over time, in having years of exposure to several different work related situations and gaining confidence in how to correctly approach them.

kitt kat
06-13-2012, 05:59 PM
OK, funny coming on the heels of yesterday...but I just found a job posting for something inherently related to my "Dream job" and pretty much 90% of the "ideal qualifications" I have (and then some.)

I've always felt like a douche writing cover letters. Have cover letter issues been answered on a case-by-case basis? Or is there a post in this thread?

It's an entertainment/news media job that the job posting says requires a deep knowledge of music, involvement/connections and knowledge of the LA music scene, strong writing skills (to write blog posts and scripts) and interview skills. How do I convey that I have all this without sounding like an asshole? I mean...Fuck, I'm working towards my MA in arts journalism with an emphasis on music criticism/reporting, have a very strong musicology background, freelance for music publications, book shows in LA and I'm even fucking writing my thesis on underground music in Los Angeles in the 80s. If that doesn't make me interview-worthy, then I will give up all hope of ever finding a job I love.

Ughhhhhh. Help.

IceyHotshot
06-13-2012, 06:03 PM
Fuck, I'm working towards my MA in arts journalism with an emphasis on music criticism/reporting, have a very strong musicology background, freelance for music publications, book shows in LA and I'm even fucking writing my thesis on underground music in Los Angeles in the 80s.



Write this in less of a laundry list format, with a small explanation of each thing linking it explicitly to their required qualification, and have some confidence when you write it. You are SUPPOSED to talk yourself up in a cover letter. It's all that will separate you from the chaff so you want it to stand out. This isn't the time to be modest.

IceyHotshot
06-13-2012, 06:06 PM
If it's a good school name it, explicitly mention that it is one of the top programs in your field, mention if you are successful grade wise (provide a GPA if stellar), be boastful.

kitt kat
06-13-2012, 06:09 PM
No I get that — I'm more concerned about the structure and how best to get my point across so the person sees this crap immediately. I know they only read the first sentence or so....

IceyHotshot
06-13-2012, 06:14 PM
I PMed you the cover letter that got me my current job. Maybe you'll find it helpful, maybe you won't.

Courtney
06-13-2012, 06:31 PM
explicitly mention that it is one of the top programs in your field

If your school is one of the top programs in your field, the person reading your cover letter will already know that. I can't imagine how douchey it would sound to say, "Yes I received my MFA in Fine Arts from Yale University, one of the top programs in fine art in the country." I mean, if it's a top program, the name probably speaks for itself.

But I agree with everything else said above.

kitt kat
06-14-2012, 12:48 AM
Well I found out my friend, who is in a different grad program at USC, is also applying for the same job. Who knows, man.

ialvarado2
06-14-2012, 01:13 AM
A good cover letter will get you a job more than anything else. First impressions is what counts and a cover letter that clearly explains why you're properly qualified will stand out from the rest of the template based letters that people copy from the web.

guedita
06-14-2012, 02:38 AM
OK, funny coming on the heels of yesterday...but I just found a job posting for something inherently related to my "Dream job" and pretty much 90% of the "ideal qualifications" I have (and then some.)

I've always felt like a douche writing cover letters. Have cover letter issues been answered on a case-by-case basis? Or is there a post in this thread?

It's an entertainment/news media job that the job posting says requires a deep knowledge of music, involvement/connections and knowledge of the LA music scene, strong writing skills (to write blog posts and scripts) and interview skills. How do I convey that I have all this without sounding like an asshole? I mean...Fuck, I'm working towards my MA in arts journalism with an emphasis on music criticism/reporting, have a very strong musicology background, freelance for music publications, book shows in LA and I'm even fucking writing my thesis on underground music in Los Angeles in the 80s. If that doesn't make me interview-worthy, then I will give up all hope of ever finding a job I love.

Ughhhhhh. Help.

Are you suggesting that people who work in the industry that you're aiming to work in aren't assholes? You will sound like an asshole and you should sound like an asshole. Also, you sort of sound like an asshole when you try to justify the reason you're applying for this job and worrying that you might sound like an asshole, so I think you're on the right track.

You all realize that the only trick to getting a job is (I guess having experience, I've never had to) figuring out what type of asshole they want to hire and then acting that role to perfection and/or being yourself, right?

locachica73
06-14-2012, 06:48 AM
I have my job interview after work today. I am nervous. I hate interviews.

ThatGirl
06-14-2012, 07:28 AM
No I get that I'm more concerned about the structure and how best to get my point across so the person sees this crap immediately. I know they only read the first sentence or so....

A cover letter should be pointed specifically to the job you are applying for and address the points specific to the job description for the role and how you fit, why you are qualified, either via your experience or education. It should be customized to every job you apply for. If it's asking for indepth knowledge of the local music scene then the things you mentioned above will speak to that. Cover letters and resumes are the only thing that gets you in the door.. you won't sound like an asshole - you'll sound qualified. Just make sure you address as many points from the description as your experience relates to - and let them know you are available to interview at their convenience. And remember to use a proper letter format.. addressed to the right individual! Good luck Kat!!!

RotationSlimWang
06-14-2012, 07:36 AM
Cover letters are such bullshit. Unless it's a really specific and unique position that actually presents you with material to craft a real preface for your resume it's just yet another exercise in "let's see how well you reword the same annoying corporate rhetoric you had to fill your resume with into full sentences and paragraph structure to waste more of our time reading." Reminds me of high school essay writing.

ThatGirl
06-14-2012, 07:37 AM
I have my job interview after work today. I am nervous. I hate interviews.

Being nervous isn't a bad thing - it means the outcome matters to you. One thing I find helps is to address it with the interviewer -if you think your nervousness is visible, saying out loud that you tend to get nervous before interviews can help to break the ice and help put you at ease, clear the air. It doesn't have to be a secret you are trying to keep. Best of luck and just try and relax and be yourself!

locachica73
06-14-2012, 07:49 AM
Unless I am applying for a larger company outside of the construction industry I usually skip the cover letter and just introduce myself in the body of my email with a very brief description of my experience and why I would be a good fit for their company. Construction managers who read resumes prefer less words. I have gotten pretty good feedback on my process though. I did apply for a job at my sisters company and she wrote my cover letter for me. I am pretty out of practice.

ThatGirl, thanks.

Robin
06-14-2012, 08:19 AM
If I post a job opening and request a cover letter with the resume, I would expect a cover letter, even if it's in the body of the email. If I receive an email with no body or cover letter, and just the resume, it automatically goes in the "No" pile. It shows me that 1) you're not good at following directions, or 2) you're too lazy to write a brief summary about yourself.

Robin
06-14-2012, 08:23 AM
I have my job interview after work today. I am nervous. I hate interviews.

Best of luck!
Being nervous is normal. I get gassy when I'm really nervous, and actually burped during ALL the interviews I had for my current job (met with them 3 times). Just try to not let that take over what you want to portray. I agree with ThatGirl. Let them know that you're a bit nervous. When interviewees would tell me that before the interview, I would try to make the meeting more comfortable for them.

RotationSlimWang
06-14-2012, 08:23 AM
What the fuck is a resume if not a brief summary about yourself that details your potential usefulness towards the position? What the fuck is a cover letter but a more verbose way of regurgitating what should already be in your resume plus some pointless crap about your personality or whatever?

guedita
06-14-2012, 08:40 AM
Yes, but, I always print my resume out on a piece of paper with the watermark of my boobs and my cover letter out on a piece of paper with the watermark of my bare buttocks -- to showcase my diverse range of attributes suitable to the company.

locachica73
06-14-2012, 09:20 AM
If the ad specifically asks for a cover letter I will always make a little extra effort, if not it's the standard:

Please see the attached resume in reference to the ad you have posted on craigslist for the position of ______________. I believe my experience is an excellent fit for the position described, I would like to meet with you to further discuss my qualifications.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Queen of the Universe

insbordnat
06-14-2012, 09:25 AM
Resigned yesterday. Everything went better than expected.

ThatGirl
06-14-2012, 09:35 AM
Yes, but, I always print my resume out on a piece of paper with the watermark of my boobs and my cover letter out on a piece of paper with the watermark of my bare buttocks -- to showcase my diverse range of attributes suitable to the company.

I would say this is a testament to your business acumen.

ThatGirl
06-14-2012, 09:35 AM
Resigned yesterday. Everything went better than expected.

Good for you - glad it went well. It's never a comfortable thing to do.

ialvarado2
06-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Unless I am applying for a larger company outside of the construction industry I usually skip the cover letter and just introduce myself in the body of my email with a very brief description of my experience and why I would be a good fit for their company.

ThatGirl, thanks.

That's pretty much what a cover letter should say anyways. You should keep'em short as well.

locachica73
06-14-2012, 01:58 PM
I am rushing out of work to my job interview and my boss pulls me into a meeting to give me a raise... Great timing buddy. UGH

kitt kat
06-14-2012, 02:28 PM
If I post a job opening and request a cover letter with the resume, I would expect a cover letter, even if it's in the body of the email. If I receive an email with no body or cover letter, and just the resume, it automatically goes in the "No" pile. It shows me that 1) you're not good at following directions, or 2) you're too lazy to write a brief summary about yourself.

But having the cover letter be the body of the email is OK? Or do you prefer a document for the letter itself?


What the fuck is a resume if not a brief summary about yourself that details your potential usefulness towards the position? What the fuck is a cover letter but a more verbose way of regurgitating what should already be in your resume plus some pointless crap about your personality or whatever?

Fuck, I'd never thought I'd agree with Randy...but I agree with Randy.

ThatGirl
06-14-2012, 08:07 PM
But having the cover letter be the body of the email is OK? Or do you prefer a document for the letter itself?



Fuck, I'd never thought I'd agree with Randy...but I agree with Randy.

The cover letter must be a document on it's own - it is called a letter as it must be in a formal letter format. Email body is not an acceptable format.

The resume is a fixed document that explains your work experience - and tells your work story. It doesn't vary . However - the cover letter describes how your skills fit the job description - which varies from job to job that you apply for. They aren't the same and can't be treated as such and therefore must exist separately. It's not pointless info - it should address what is in the job description. It's not a regurgitation of your resume.

IceyHotshot
06-14-2012, 08:08 PM
Waiting this long to apply probably means someone else already got the job.

ThatGirl
06-14-2012, 08:11 PM
Waiting this long to apply probably means someone else already got the job.

Not necessarily - Kat - is there a deadline for applications?

casey
06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
Someone on my team is leaving, and since my boss doesn't want to really sift through the resumes he's asked me to do it & pick qualified applicants. I've never hired anyone, and I know the economy is tough, but these people seem (at least to me) either WAY overqualified or WAY underqualified for the position. ThatGirl, since you look at resumes all the time, how can you sift through all the bullshit and really determine if these people are good fits? Do I give everyone who has a decent resume a chance? Will I know when the right one comes along? Any first time hiring advice would be appreciated!

ThatGirl
06-28-2012, 01:55 PM
Someone on my team is leaving, and since my boss doesn't want to really sift through the resumes he's asked me to do it & pick qualified applicants. I've never hired anyone, and I know the economy is tough, but these people seem (at least to me) either WAY overqualified or WAY underqualified for the position. ThatGirl, since you look at resumes all the time, how can you sift through all the bullshit and really determine if these people are good fits? Do I give everyone who has a decent resume a chance? Will I know when the right one comes along? Any first time hiring advice would be appreciated!

When qualifying resumes, and sifting through the pile, the best thing to start with is the process of elimination. 3 piles, A B and C. C's are people that are way UNDER qualified and you shouldn't have to bother with those. B's are resumes that don't appear to be a really strong fit, but warrant closer exploration, and A candidates are those that are readily qualified, or even somewhat over qualified. Start with the A's and look closely at the job description. Identify the resumes where the candidates most closely describe their activities as matching what you are asking for in the description. Once you have those narrowed down, look at their seniority level and try to select the ones that are "middle of the road" in terms of experience, and therefore will also be probably middle of the salary range. Those are the ones I'd interview first and use them as a benchmark. If you have no success with those candidates, or if their salary expectations seem inflated for what level they are at, move to the more seemingly senior /overqualified candidates and interview one or two, to determine a comparison. Since the economy is tough, it's possible you could get an overqualified person for less than they'd normally demand, but you would want to ask the questions to determine why they'd be considering a more junior role. This will also give you a barometer of the market conditions and what you can expect to be dealing with.

guedita
06-28-2012, 02:00 PM
Toss any resumes that have names you dislike.

ThatGirl
06-28-2012, 02:03 PM
Toss any resumes that have names you dislike.

You might be surprised by how often this actually does take place in my industry.

guedita
06-28-2012, 02:04 PM
If you linger on a resume and have that "I bet this person just smells....weird" gut feeling, they probably do. Toss it out.

PlayaDelWes
06-28-2012, 02:05 PM
I usually google their home address and go from there.

casey
06-28-2012, 02:26 PM
Toss any resumes that have names you dislike.

I think this is how my boss picks candidates. This and their Facebook profile picture. I noticed he only had girls in his pile of resumes, and they were all young based on when they graduated college. Can you tell we have a really informal HR department?

guedita
06-28-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm sometimes baffled when I see that ugly people even have jobs.

ThatGirl
06-28-2012, 02:33 PM
I think this is how my boss picks candidates. This and their Facebook profile picture. I noticed he only had girls in his pile of resumes, and they were all young based on when they graduated college. Can you tell we have a really informal HR department?

Well since you are picking the candidates you can make sure you get someone you'd prefer to work with. :)

Robin
06-28-2012, 02:35 PM
Just pick the chic that's less pretty than you.
Unless you want to please your boss, than the one with big titties.

Robin
06-28-2012, 02:48 PM
But honestly, here's my list that I go through when sorting through resumes:

1. Email address (since most resumes I get are via email). This goes along with the Name thing that Cara mentioned. I do not want to hire someone with an address like SexyMama420. Sorry, Cara!
2. Work history dates. I want to see if the candidate is committed to a position, instead of jumping around all the time.
3. Breaks in work history. I know it's tough out there, but having a 2+ year break is questionable to me.
4. Education (if there's a minimum requirement)
5. Position held.
6. Job description.

kitt kat
06-28-2012, 02:50 PM
FUCK FUCK FUCK

People are getting laid off at my work today.

Six people already got the can, including the girl I worked closely with.

locachica73
06-28-2012, 02:52 PM
Awww, Robin wouldn't hire me. I had 10 years at one company but then worked 2 jobs for 6 months each with 3 month breaks between. I hate how my resume looks now. I have now had over a year and a half here but I know people see those 2 jobs and think man, she must suck. Nope, I just worked for 2 companies that went out of business. :(

Robin
06-28-2012, 02:55 PM
Awww, Robin wouldn't hire me. I had 10 years at one company but then worked 2 jobs for 6 months each with 3 month breaks between. I hate how my resume looks now. I have now had over a year and a half here but I know people see those 2 jobs and think man, she must suck. Nope, I just worked for 2 companies that went out of business. :(

If I saw that you were at a company for 10 years, then I would still call you for an explanation as to the other positions. I understand being laid off. It's those people who go "I didn't like it there, so I found something else, but I didn't like it there, so I found something else."

ThatGirl
06-28-2012, 08:20 PM
But honestly, here's my list that I go through when sorting through resumes:

1. Email address (since most resumes I get are via email). This goes along with the Name thing that Cara mentioned. I do not want to hire someone with an address like SexyMama420. Sorry, Cara!
2. Work history dates. I want to see if the candidate is committed to a position, instead of jumping around all the time.
3. Breaks in work history. I know it's tough out there, but having a 2+ year break is questionable to me.
4. Education (if there's a minimum requirement)
5. Position held.
6. Job description.

Robin - I have to say that yes, I look for these things in a resume too - breaks in work history especially. But when it comes to the initial sorting of resumes the best thing to do is break down the volume and then scale back from there. If someone has a gap they can't explain, I like to assume they were in jail. It makes the qualification process that much easier. That said, I did end up interviewing and nearly hiring someone that was posing for a guy that was actually in jail - so I do tend to be wary of this type of thing.

JustSteve
06-29-2012, 11:43 AM
But honestly, here's my list that I go through when sorting through resumes:

1. Email address (since most resumes I get are via email). This goes along with the Name thing that Cara mentioned. I do not want to hire someone with an address like SexyMama420. Sorry, Cara!
2. Work history dates. I want to see if the candidate is committed to a position, instead of jumping around all the time.
3. Breaks in work history. I know it's tough out there, but having a 2+ year break is questionable to me.
4. Education (if there's a minimum requirement)
5. Position held.
6. Job description.

Wondering what would happen with a person like me. I quit working in 2001 at the age of 23 because I decided to go on permanent disability. Prior to that I worked 6 years at my one and only job. The last 6+ years I have been a stay at home parent, which is honestly about 20 different jobs, haha. Got through 2 years of college before my health made it impossible to keep up, as well. Not sure how I could even go back to school at this point. During high school I was part time home schooled through the district in which I didn't really have to do jack shit and the other half in school where I easily pulled A's and a couple B's even though I was absent most of the semesters.. I have been so far removed from a regular experience like that since the end of junior high that the thought of going back to school at this age is nerve wracking!

If somehow a cure or treatment was developed to where I could maintain my health well enough to work full time would I even be desirable to anyone at this point based on my past?

Guess I am fortunate that I have a lot of connections with people/businesses involved with my disease who would most likely be understanding of what I have been through and what may come in the future.

marooko
06-29-2012, 11:49 AM
But honestly, here's my list that I go through when sorting through resumes:

1. Email address (since most resumes I get are via email). This goes along with the Name thing that Cara mentioned. I do not want to hire someone with an address like SexyMama420. Sorry, Cara!
2. Work history dates. I want to see if the candidate is committed to a position, instead of jumping around all the time.
3. Breaks in work history. I know it's tough out there, but having a 2+ year break is questionable to me.
4. Education (if there's a minimum requirement)
5. Position held.
6. Job description.

I've got a question about this: I've been off a payroll for about three years now but have most definitely been working in my field and have proof of this. Will "Freelance" give you the same feeling as described above?

Also, I don't know if I interview well. What are you looking for when you're interviewing someone? Directed at anyone conducting interviews.

ThatGirl
06-29-2012, 03:48 PM
Wondering what would happen with a person like me. I quit working in 2001 at the age of 23 because I decided to go on permanent disability. Prior to that I worked 6 years at my one and only job. The last 6+ years I have been a stay at home parent, which is honestly about 20 different jobs, haha. Got through 2 years of college before my health made it impossible to keep up, as well. Not sure how I could even go back to school at this point. During high school I was part time home schooled through the district in which I didn't really have to do jack shit and the other half in school where I easily pulled A's and a couple B's even though I was absent most of the semesters.. I have been so far removed from a regular experience like that since the end of junior high that the thought of going back to school at this age is nerve wracking!

If somehow a cure or treatment was developed to where I could maintain my health well enough to work full time would I even be desirable to anyone at this point based on my past?

Guess I am fortunate that I have a lot of connections with people/businesses involved with my disease who would most likely be understanding of what I have been through and what may come in the future.


Your health situation puts you in a compassionate category that most others don't fall into. When the gaps are due to debilitating health issues it's completely different. And a good thing you have people around that would understand if you were able to return to work. Most of the people I see have gaps due to job loss, or sometimes extended travel, or family issues, and it's each individual's personal circumstances that determines the level of how forgivable it is. I have a friend that was wrongly terminated due to her health issues, and she ended up suing her long term employer and winning a settlement - but it permanently impacted her ability to get a reference at the company. She was well within her rights - but it's still doing her a bit of damage.