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grenade
10-16-2011, 01:45 PM
-California-
This is part B of the DREAM act where American tax dollars are going towards tuition of ILLEGAL ALIENS to attend OUR community colleges and California state colleges. These kids are not citizens, they are in our country illegally and now thanks to Jerry Brown are taking financial aid money which should be going to American college students. It's unfair to citizens.
Jorge-Mario Cabrera of the Coalition for Humane Immigrants Rights of Los Angeles (CHIRLA) released in a statement when this law passes they will be releasing doves and throwing rose petals in celebration. Are you kidding me?!?

Neighborhood Creep
10-16-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm staying out of this thread

heart cooks brain
10-16-2011, 01:52 PM
I'm staying out of this thread

srsly

greghead
10-16-2011, 01:54 PM
Well, if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens, they will pay back many times over what was given. You're just xenophobic.

sbessiso
10-16-2011, 02:00 PM
I dunno, I feel like the OP has a point...

Alchemy
10-16-2011, 02:14 PM
It feels like that. I think there are financial aid options for Americans, though. I think. You know what would be a cool way to help the American students? Not so much blocking them darn illegals, but cooling it down with the post-financial aid loan repayment era.

greghead
10-16-2011, 03:33 PM
I dunno, I feel like the OP has a point...

I don't disagree 100% either, who wants all these brown people breathing up all the white man's air? But the people are already here and they're not going anywhere. So, to me it seems prudent to offer them opportunities that will allow them to become active, contributing members of society. And let's be fair, a whole lot more of our money is spent waging a failing border war than would be spent on education.

These xenophobe arguments are tired, the exact same language and rhetoric was used against the Chinese, Slavs, Itals, Jews, etc 100 years ago, against the Irish, Scandinavians and Germans before that, and so on and so forth. Immigrants have clearly ruined American society.

Sleepingrock
10-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Tell us more about this Techno music you speak of Grenade.

Sleepingrock
10-16-2011, 05:02 PM
I wish Mexico won the war.

Mexichella.

guedita
10-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Don't worry, guys. I'm sure grenade's ancestors are native to the United States. I'm sure they didn't just end up here and ever benefit from the tax dollars of actual citizens. I'm sure of it!

Stickjohn
10-16-2011, 06:39 PM
Fox News:


Under current law, illegal immigrant students who have graduated from a California high school and can prove they're on the path to legalize their immigration status can pay resident tuition rates. The bill would allow these students to apply for state aid.

The contentious second half of the package requires that immigrant students meet the same requirements as all other students applying for financial aid at state universities but specifies that they only qualify for financial aid after all the other legal residents have applied.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/08/california-gov-brown-signs-bill-for-illegal-immigrant-student-aid/#ixzz1b0Dj01KH


The missing part is the path to citizenship only a federal bill could provide. The federal DREAM Act has been kicking around for 10 years.

PlayaDelWes
10-16-2011, 06:45 PM
So, in order for them to get collegiate financial aid, they must graduate from high school first?:confused: I imagine they'd actually have to be accepted to and attend a college as well to receive said financial aid? Mind boggling.

Neighborhood Creep
10-16-2011, 07:08 PM
http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1007/illegal-aliens-immigration-aliens-okami-mattakunobaka-mattuk-political-poster-1280137231.jpg

weeklymix
10-16-2011, 07:31 PM
-California-
This is part B of the DREAM act where American tax dollars are going towards tuition of ILLEGAL ALIENS to attend OUR community colleges and California state colleges. These kids are not citizens, they are in our country illegally and now thanks to Jerry Brown are taking financial aid money which should be going to American college students. It's unfair to citizens.
Jorge-Mario Cabrera of the Coalition for Humane Immigrants Rights of Los Angeles (CHIRLA) released in a statement when this law passes they will be releasing doves and throwing rose petals in celebration. Are you kidding me?!?

You haven't even touched Part C / III which I thought would outrage you far more than part B:


Part III of the California DREAM Act additionally states that if a legal citizen of the country does not qualify to attend university or college, their parents will be responsible directly for an illegal immigrant who's graduated high school and qualified for higher education. This includes cost of living and tuition as determined by the state. Some suggest this might even apply to forcing the families to take in the illegal immigrant students they are responsible for during holiday breaks.

Part III not only contradicts the rest of the provisions of the DREAM Act, claiming illegal immigrants will not need to remotely show interest in becoming a part of the United States, but it actually allows them to get a free education in our country and return to Mexico with all the benefits we gave them. It has become patently clear that the Land of Opportunity exists solely for the purpose of giving these illegal immigrants a free ride so that they can simply return to Mexico and essentially become the most educated people back in their home nation.

Moreover, it's patently clear that living off the American system has become more important than living the American Dream. In no way shape or form does giving children who were brought to this country against their will a chance promote the idea they would stay here and become lawful taxpayers. It simply gives them the tools to be more successful in their country of origin, negating the fact that they might have gone from kindergarten through high school in the United States. The people who will suffer the most are American children because as more and more illegal immigrants are given a pass to get an American education, native children will surely never be able to find a university or college that suits their needs. Illegal immigrants were already partially responsible for our jobless plight as a nation, must they really exclude our children from enrollment in higher education too?

Source: http://cnn.com/2011/10/13/word/usa/california/what-people-should-know-about-the-dream-act/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 (http://i54.tinypic.com/2zq7q4h.jpg)

Stickjohn
10-16-2011, 07:55 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQW-G0k4GlzVSmTDYOItlj3IsVA9sshmIX7ZDwUqF2CQFlxgZae

nahuatldream
10-16-2011, 10:59 PM
You haven't even touched Part C / III which I thought would outrage you far more than part B:



Source: http://cnn.com/2011/10/13/word/usa/california/what-people-should-know-about-the-dream-act/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 (http://i54.tinypic.com/2zq7q4h.jpg)

Ahhaha, this guy...

suprefan
10-17-2011, 03:01 AM
-California-
This is part B of the DREAM act where American tax dollars are going towards tuition of ILLEGAL ALIENS to attend OUR community colleges and California state colleges. These kids are not citizens, they are in our country illegally and now thanks to Jerry Brown are taking financial aid money which should be going to American college students. It's unfair to citizens.
Jorge-Mario Cabrera of the Coalition for Humane Immigrants Rights of Los Angeles (CHIRLA) released in a statement when this law passes they will be releasing doves and throwing rose petals in celebration. Are you kidding me?!?

So are your kids going to put your own taxpayer money to better use? Wait, theyll probably end up in a overcrowded jail which you pay for, that's much more useful. When was america not the land of opportunity? When racist fucks like you got jealous somebody was ending up with a better education and job.

heart cooks brain
10-17-2011, 06:25 AM
WORTHWHILE RANT.

gaypalmsprings
10-17-2011, 06:40 AM
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/californiadreamact.jpg

Cheddar's Cousin
10-17-2011, 06:50 AM
Well, if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens, they will pay back many times over what was given. You're just xenophobic.


It is illegal to hire them.

heart cooks brain
10-17-2011, 06:55 AM
It is illegal to hire them.

i think you missed the qualifiying bit

PotVsKtl
10-17-2011, 08:42 AM
This is what happens when indie music becomes cool and hip.

TomAz
10-17-2011, 09:15 AM
-California-
This is part B of the DREAM act where American tax dollars are going towards tuition of ILLEGAL ALIENS to attend OUR community colleges and California state colleges. These kids are not citizens, they are in our country illegally and now thanks to Jerry Brown are taking financial aid money which should be going to American college students. It's unfair to citizens.
Jorge-Mario Cabrera of the Coalition for Humane Immigrants Rights of Los Angeles (CHIRLA) released in a statement when this law passes they will be releasing doves and throwing rose petals in celebration. Are you kidding me?!?

how do you feel about medical marijuana?

Yes. this is a trap. please reply anyway.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-17-2011, 12:40 PM
It is illegal to hire them.


i think you missed the qualifiying bit

I don't see it in the body of the bill. Could you point me to the correct section?

PotVsKtl
10-17-2011, 12:42 PM
Change your fucking avatar.

guedita
10-17-2011, 12:44 PM
Well, if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens, they will pay back many times over what was given. You're just xenophobic.


It is illegal to hire them.


i think you missed the qualifiying bit


I don't see it in the body of the bill. Could you point me to the correct section?

Try again.

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't see it in the body of the bill. Could you point me to the correct section?

You probably didn't even read the article.
Source: http://cnn.com/2011/10/13/word/usa/california/what-people-should-know-about-the-dream-act/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 (http://i54.tinypic.com/2zq7q4h.jpg)

Fixed.

jackstraw94086
10-17-2011, 02:43 PM
try that link again.

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 02:46 PM
Is it not going to CNN.com?

jackstraw94086
10-17-2011, 02:51 PM
it appears to link to your avatar pic. the display text doesn't work when copy/pasted either

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 02:53 PM
Alright I fixed it. Thanks for letting me know.

TomAz
10-17-2011, 02:54 PM
I thought it was an intentional little gag.

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 02:54 PM
What? That's impossible.

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 02:56 PM
It should work now.


You probably didn't even read the article.
Source: http://cnn.com/2011/10/13/word/usa/california/what-people-should-know-about-the-dream-act/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 (http://i54.tinypic.com/2zq7q4h.jpg)

Fixed.

guedita
10-17-2011, 03:02 PM
It works for me. Could have been a browser problem.

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Ok good. That's weird I don't know what it was, check your browser caches perhaps for those of you that can't see it.

TomAz
10-17-2011, 03:15 PM
much better, thanks.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
10-17-2011, 04:20 PM
Zack, is your avatar supposed to be funny

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Was there ever anything entertaining about Stargate?

grenade
10-17-2011, 05:52 PM
So are your kids going to put your own taxpayer money to better use? Wait, theyll probably end up in a overcrowded jail which you pay for, that's much more useful. When was america not the land of opportunity? When racist fucks like you got jealous somebody was ending up with a better education and job.

Racism? Jealousy? You have no idea what your talking about. Its about standing up for your goddamn rights, allowing our citizens to benefit from college funding instead of the freeloaders who dont pay any taxes.

weeklymix
10-17-2011, 05:58 PM
Native Americans who make their income directly through their tribe don't pay taxes. Are they freeloaders?

PotVsKtl
10-17-2011, 05:58 PM
Racism? Jealousy? You have no idea what your talking about. Its about standing up for your goddamn rights, allowing our citizens to benefit from college funding instead of the freeloaders who dont pay any taxes.

They don't buy things or live places? They're not paid?

PotVsKtl
10-17-2011, 05:59 PM
Fucking homeless Mexicans, showing up to steal our jobs, work for free, then disappear into giant underground warrens.

guedita
10-17-2011, 06:24 PM
grenade - prove that every single illegal alien doesn't pay taxes.

Sleepingrock
10-17-2011, 06:56 PM
They probably pay for taxes than the 1%.

#OccupyWallStreet

jackstraw94086
10-17-2011, 07:33 PM
Racism? Jealousy? You have no idea what your talking about. Its about standing up for your goddamn rights, allowing our citizens to benefit from college funding instead of the freeloaders who dont pay any taxes.

A) you say this as if these folks wouldn't rather have higher paying jobs and pay more taxes

B) any illegal worker who doesn't work for himself (about 2/3, up to 3/4 of them) does pay taxes. Only because their SSN isn't theirs, they're not getting paid back for them. Schooling and emergency medical are the only benefits these people get, but they're paying for nearly all of them.

You sound like someone who's never read any of the arguments for or against.

If an immigrant family manages to raise a well-adjusted, smart kid who can get a degree then the investment is sound. This assumes of course that they don't get an inordinate advantage, and that they're headed for naturalization , which you'd assume they'd need to be to leverage their degree. They're likely not running back to Mexico with it. There's hardly any argument against a more educated citizenry. This isn't a zero sum game.

zenidogx
10-17-2011, 09:00 PM
Bless Reagan and that sweet, sweet amnesty he granted.

Mugwog
10-17-2011, 11:37 PM
Racism? Jealousy? You have no idea what your talking about. Its about standing up for your goddamn rights, allowing our citizens to benefit from college funding instead of the freeloaders who dont pay any taxes.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/3/18/129134229854271398.jpg

When they buy gas, they pay taxes; when they buy things from any market place (non food item) they pay taxes; when they pay for their fake papers, they are definitely TAXED. Or they can pay $1200+ USD and wait anywhere from 3-5 years after submitting an application for consideration of a citizenship visa.

Illegal immigration will always be happening in any land of opportunity.

Would you want to live in Mexico or any other country where speaking your mind may mean your immediate and extended families end up decapitated? You'd probably risk life and limb for a better tomorrow as opposed to life under fear of the cartel or any other crime syndicate or corrupt government. If you have family in a poorer part of the world (Philippines for me) you may understand.

If you wanted to help the youth of America, introduce a bill that would allow a free education upon completion of a Masters degree and 1 year of public service ala military/peace corp/red cross etc. Perhaps allow tax credits for corporations for job placement of American citizens who have completed this proposed program if it were to pass.

Don't blame the fall of a country on the people who do the shit jobs most of its citizens are too proud to do.

TomAz
10-18-2011, 06:03 AM
Racism? Jealousy? You have no idea what your talking about. Its about standing up for your goddamn rights, allowing our citizens to benefit from college funding instead of the freeloaders who dont pay any taxes.

You didn't answer my question about marijuana. Good choice, racism is bad enough, you'd really look dumb with hypocrisy thrown in there.

TomAz
10-18-2011, 06:52 AM
B) any illegal worker who doesn't work for himself (about 2/3, up to 3/4 of them) does pay taxes. Only because their SSN isn't theirs, they're not getting paid back for them. Schooling and emergency medical are the only benefits these people get, but they're paying for nearly all of them.

This is the kind of truth that the anti-immigrant bloc tends to ignore and which exposes the inherent racism in the 'movement'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html


the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-18-2011, 10:18 AM
Try again.


You probably didn't even read the article.
Source: http://cnn.com/2011/10/13/word/usa/california/what-people-should-know-about-the-dream-act/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 (http://i54.tinypic.com/2zq7q4h.jpg)

Fixed.

I read the article. I read the bill. I know the article says they must prove they are on a path to citizenship, but I don't see it in the bill.

Please, help me with the section # I want to see it. If you know were it is, it would have been much easier for you to just site it.

guedita
10-18-2011, 10:21 AM
Where*

Hint*

You're*

An*

Idiot*

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 10:54 AM
I read the article. I read the bill. I know the article says they must prove they are on a path to citizenship, but I don't see it in the bill.

Please, help me with the section # I want to see it. If you know were it is, it would have been much easier for you to just site it.

It's in the link. Just read it.

guedita
10-18-2011, 11:01 AM
Well, if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens, they will pay back many times over what was given. You're just xenophobic.


It is illegal to hire them.


I don't see it in the body of the bill. Could you point me to the correct section?

Can't believe the level of stupidity here.

*Cite

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 11:03 AM
Haaaa

jackstraw94086
10-18-2011, 11:27 AM
This is the kind of truth that the anti-immigrant bloc tends to ignore and which exposes the inherent racism in the 'movement'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html

And guess what state receives one the largest immigrant labor tax "subsidies". CA. hundreds of thousands of immigrants are paying taxes which the CA university system draws from. So then this whole argument gets flipped around. Immigrants are helping to pay for americans kids to go to school. almost feudal.

heart cooks brain
10-18-2011, 11:40 AM
futile

jackstraw94086
10-18-2011, 11:49 AM
no, it's correct as spelled.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 11:53 AM
futile

Hahahaha

heart cooks brain
10-18-2011, 12:16 PM
the discussion is futile

jackstraw94086
10-18-2011, 12:20 PM
no, it's puerile.

summerkid
10-18-2011, 12:27 PM
This is the kind of truth that the anti-immigrant bloc tends to ignore and which exposes the inherent racism in the 'movement'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html

I'm sick of all this racism talk. Is it racist to try and bring in more skilled workers and keep unskilled workers out unless they come over in some migrant worker program. If we can secure the border (as we have seen that our enemies have attempted to plot with drug cartels to expose this weakness) and fix immigration to get more skilled workers here that can fill job openings that need to be filled no matter if they are Chinese, Indian, or Mexican we'd be better off.

heart cooks brain
10-18-2011, 12:29 PM
tired. poor. huddled masses. wretched. homeless.

summerkid
10-18-2011, 12:35 PM
tired. poor. huddled masses.

So some statue gifted to us by the French should dictate American Policy? Not too mention that the statue was lying considering the Chinese Exclusion Act was in place during the time The Statue of Liberty first arrived.

guedita
10-18-2011, 12:37 PM
I'm sick of all this racism talk. Is it racist to try and bring in more skilled workers and keep unskilled workers out unless they come over in some migrant worker program. If we can secure the border (as we have seen that our enemies have attempted to plot with drug cartels to expose this weakness) and fix immigration to get more skilled workers here that can fill job openings that need to be filled no matter if they are Chinese, Indian, or Mexican we'd be better off.

Oh, are we in dire need of skilled workers? And are illegal aliens all unskilled?

summerkid
10-18-2011, 12:40 PM
Oh, are we in dire need of skilled workers? And are illegal aliens all unskilled?

ummm, yes actually we are in dire need of skilled workers. Bill Gates has said many times that there aren't enough computer engineers in the country. I'd say the majority of illegal aliens are unskilled, would you really disagree with that statement?

heart cooks brain
10-18-2011, 12:42 PM
So some statue gifted to us by the French should dictate American Policy? Not too mention that the statue was lying considering the Chinese Exclusion Act was in place during the time The Statue of Liberty first arrived.

Emma Lazarus was born in New York City.

summerkid
10-18-2011, 12:45 PM
Emma Lazarus was born in New York City.

I realize this, it still doesn't change the fact that what she wrote shouldn't dictate American Policy and that in fact what she wrote was not even the truth because the policy at the time was to restrict immigration to Europeans as much as possible.

guedita
10-18-2011, 12:48 PM
So, just to make clear, we are in dire need of skilled workers, but the unemployment rate for college graduates between the ages of 18-25 is hovering at about 9%?

I wasn't aware that the term "skilled worker" meant "computer engineer."

heart cooks brain
10-18-2011, 12:58 PM
I realize this, it still doesn't change the fact that what she wrote shouldn't dictate American Policy and that in fact what she wrote was not even the truth because the policy at the time was to restrict immigration to Europeans as much as possible.

No one thing should dictate american policy. harvesting the best and brightest of foreign nations for ourselves should help depress the world economy enough that the corporations you so laud in the 'republicans' thread should have and endless supply of unskilled labor overseas that they may fatten their pockets onthe backs of.

summerkid
10-18-2011, 01:04 PM
So, just to make clear, we are in dire need of skilled workers, but the unemployment rate for college graduates between the ages of 18-25 is hovering at about 9%?

I wasn't aware that the term "skilled worker" meant "computer engineer."

That's why I specified that they be skilled workers that can fill jobs that need to be filled. Obviously, not everyone with a skill is in demand in this economy.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 01:18 PM
the discussion is futile

Get out of here. You can't even admit you were wrong by trying to be a dick in correcting him? You even continued to speak in the "futile" discussion.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 01:20 PM
That's why I specified that they be skilled workers that can fill jobs that need to be filled. Obviously, not everyone with a skill is in demand in this economy.

Skilled worker, generally, is not defined as an educated engineer. Berry and other fruit farmers are begging we stop cracking down on illegal immigrants and it's not because they're losing their CPAs or web developers.

heart cooks brain
10-18-2011, 01:23 PM
Get out of here. You can't even admit you were wrong by trying to be a dick in correcting him? You even continued to speak in the "futile" discussion.

your misinterpretation of my comment is not my problem. kindly go fuck yourself.

summerkid
10-18-2011, 01:24 PM
No one thing should dictate american policy. harvesting the best and brightest of foreign nations for ourselves .

...is something we have always done. That's how we got the atomic bomb taking scientists from Germany and China. We attract great minds to this country because we are a great nation. Why should we stop people who want to come to this country who would benefit us?

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 01:24 PM
your misinterpretation of my comment is not my problem. kindly go fuck yourself.

I mean if anything's futile it's someone who can't appropriately distinguish between feudal and futile in a thread roughly discussing illegal immigrants.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Our shortage of engineers and those employed in the science, medical and technology field is not something that is even remotely addressed by this thread's topic. They won't be illegal if they're a citizen or eventual citizen that's graduated from an American college and educated to work in those fields in this country.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 01:29 PM
You know your point is irrelevant when Jackstraw counters yours and is correct. There isn't a whole lot of ways to agree or disagree with the nature and intention of a bill like this and the fact the conversation has extended to 3 pages is ridiculous.

summerkid
10-18-2011, 01:34 PM
Our shortage of engineers and those employed in the science, medical and technology field is not something that is even remotely addressed by this thread's topic. They won't be illegal if they're a citizen or eventual citizen that's graduated from an American college and educated to work in those fields in this country.

Do you see me speaking out against it? I was commenting on people against illegal immigration being racist. Pointing out that there are valid reasons to secure the border and improve legal immigration. Neither of which have to do with race.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 01:35 PM
No I generally agree with you I was more so supporting it.

jackstraw94086
10-18-2011, 01:42 PM
You know your point is irrelevant when Jackstraw counters yours and is correct. There isn't a whole lot of ways to agree or disagree with the nature and intention of a bill like this and the fact the conversation has extended to 3 pages is ridiculous.

F off, chachi. If you think the amount of disagreement one encounters in this message board is an indication of how often they're incorrect then you should really be worried about what you sound like in front of folks with all their pubes grown in, Francesca.:D

luv u!

kreutz2112
10-18-2011, 01:42 PM
Our shortage of engineers and those employed in the science, medical and technology field is not something that is even remotely addressed by this thread's topic. They won't be illegal if they're a citizen or eventual citizen that's graduated from an American college and educated to work in those fields in this country.

The problem with this though is that we don't let them stay here once they get a degree. Although, I'd say that this doesn't really apply to illegals. I'm not 100% on this, but it seems that the immigrants currently working toward a degree in the 3 industries you list aren't here illegally.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-18-2011, 08:00 PM
It's in the link. Just read it.


Well, if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens, they will pay back many times over what was given. You're just xenophobic.


It is illegal to hire them.


I don't see it in the body of the bill. Could you point me to the correct section?


Can't believe the level of stupidity here.

*Cite

Please forgive my grievous vocabulary error. It is merely an idicator of my high level of stupidity.

The link just leads me to a picture of your avitar. This is eiter a) yet another indicator of my deficient intelligence or b) some sort of joke which I am too darn fool stupid to understand.

If I am to believe that all those bold type words in the quote you keep including are, in fact, a portion of the body of the bill...I must declare that you, Guedita, are the one that is missing something here.

I will, however, stop short of calling you dense, or dull, or ignorant or anything similarly insulting, and kindly ask again for a citation of the section of the bill which indicates that applicants seeking financial aid with college tuition and other associated expenses whom are currently in the state of California illegally must provide proof of being upon a path which would, if followed to it's terminal point, end in United States citizenship.

zenidogx
10-18-2011, 08:06 PM
*AB 131: Undocumented Immigrant Student Financial Aid

Cheddar's Cousin
10-18-2011, 08:19 PM
Sorry...

Upon further investigation, I see that the stipulation regarding the path to US Citizenship is located within a seperate bill upon which this one piggybacks.

Since this is the case, I fully support it. I know a guy who employs several illegal immigrants and sypathizes with their plights. It is an often obfuscated fact that these illegals pay into the system with absolutely no chance of recovering their investment in many of the ways legal citizens can.

If the recipeints of these funds are on track to become legal citzens and, therefore, employable, I say, "Let's do this!"

I would still like to point out that the attacks upon my intelligence were rude, hurtful, and baseless. I used one word incorrectly and commited a couple of typos.

If you will excuse me now, I'm going to turn myself in to the Grammar Gestapo for an immediate shower.

guedita
10-18-2011, 09:32 PM
Your stupidity has nothing to do with your inability to spell. It has everything to do with your inability to comprehend a clause as basic as stating the following hypothetical scenario: if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens,

Also stupid:


If I am to believe that all those bold type words in the quote you keep including are, in fact, a portion of the body of the bill...I must declare that you, Guedita, are the one that is missing something here.


I don't know. Do I need to keep quoting what you failed to understand in the first place? Do you get that it was pointed out that you didn't seem to understand that it wouldn't be illegal to hire these people if they had, in fact, become citizens? But that you kept missing that point and demanding that someone prove to you that something was in a bill that no one had ever claimed to be in the bill in the first place?

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 10:03 PM
To be fair, the part I quoted is in the bill. All of it.

guedita
10-18-2011, 10:17 PM
Part III of the California DREAM Act additionally states that if a legal citizen of the country does not qualify to attend university or college, their parents will be responsible directly for an illegal immigrant who's graduated high school and qualified for higher education. This includes cost of living and tuition as determined by the state. Some suggest this might even apply to forcing the families to take in the illegal immigrant students they are responsible for during holiday breaks.

Part III not only contradicts the rest of the provisions of the DREAM Act, claiming illegal immigrants will not need to remotely show interest in becoming a part of the United States, but it actually allows them to get a free education in our country and return to Mexico with all the benefits we gave them. It has become patently clear that the Land of Opportunity exists solely for the purpose of giving these illegal immigrants a free ride so that they can simply return to Mexico and essentially become the most educated people back in their home nation.

Moreover, it's patently clear that living off the American system has become more important than living the American Dream. In no way shape or form does giving children who were brought to this country against their will a chance promote the idea they would stay here and become lawful taxpayers. It simply gives them the tools to be more successful in their country of origin, negating the fact that they might have gone from kindergarten through high school in the United States. The people who will suffer the most are American children because as more and more illegal immigrants are given a pass to get an American education, native children will surely never be able to find a university or college that suits their needs. Illegal immigrants were already partially responsible for our jobless plight as a nation, must they really exclude our children from enrollment in higher education too?

Will citizens get to choose the illegal immigrant they are paying for, or has the freedom of choice also been stripped away from our native sons by these bloodsuckers?

greghead
10-18-2011, 10:24 PM
Yeah, what about freedom? 9/11 must be rolling in its grave right now.

weeklymix
10-18-2011, 10:29 PM
Will citizens get to choose the illegal immigrant they are paying for, or has the freedom of choice also been stripped away from our native sons by these bloodsuckers?

Are you kidding me? No. This isn't a fucking trading card game. It's Big Government taking a big Mexican shit in your living room. Only this one has "feelings" and has to eat at least a couple adequate meals a day or they'll starve. You just have to pay for them to do nearly everything and what do they repay you with? Taking their job to their motherland. Sorry, "Madreland." At the end of the day our socialist, pig-fucking, and ass-backward system is just going to keep raping us with these illegals until we become the United States of America and Mexico. USAM. And believe me, the old Uncle Sam is the only one rolling in his grave. Good Ol' U. Sam... Wait... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

greghead
10-18-2011, 10:32 PM
I welcome his return from the grave, I find Zombie Uncle Sam an intriguing prospect.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-19-2011, 07:23 AM
Your stupidity has nothing to do with your inability to spell. It has everything to do with your inability to comprehend a clause as basic as stating the following hypothetical scenario: if you assume that a sizable proportion of these illegal students will remain in the country and become tax-paying citizens,

Also stupid:




I don't know. Do I need to keep quoting what you failed to understand in the first place? Do you get that it was pointed out that you didn't seem to understand that it wouldn't be illegal to hire these people if they had, in fact, become citizens? But that you kept missing that point and demanding that someone prove to you that something was in a bill that no one had ever claimed to be in the bill in the first place?

Did you fail to understand that if it is not in the bill, it is not a legal requirement for these people to be on the path to citizenship and therefore it is presumptuous, naive, or STUPID to assume that they would be?

Again, it would have been much simpler to CITE the section of the bill than to go through all of this.

For example:

CF 101 III b states that, "All cunty responses to people asking for simple explanations..."

See? Wasn't that easy?

Also Greg, this bill would amend current law (SB 33) which contains the passage regarding affidavits for Illegal residents. While this is noted in the digest, it is not expressly mentioned in the bill that I have read as far as I can tell.

Once again, I will ask for the section of the bill where you are reading it. Please present it as I have in my example above if you know where it is. If it is there, I will thank you and apologize for my oversight.

Otherwise, tell me to fuck off and we can continue this awesomeness.

PotVsKtl
10-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Change your fucking avatar.

guedita
10-19-2011, 09:51 AM
Yeah. I guess it's more stupid to assume that the children who obtain a college education as a result of this bill aren't likely to be interested in becoming citizens. It's definitely stupid to assume that they have no intention of using the education they've acquired to benefit themselves and the country they have been raised in. Because it isn't explicitly stated in a bill. Not that anyone in this thread ever said that it was stated in a bill to begin with. But go on thinking that.

TomAz
10-19-2011, 09:58 AM
If we can secure the border (as we have seen that our enemies have attempted to plot with drug cartels to expose this weakness) and fix immigration to get more skilled workers here that can fill job openings that need to be filled no matter if they are Chinese, Indian, or Mexican we'd be better off.

Isn't this what Bush proposed and was shot down by his fellow Republicans?

Isn't this what Perry suggested that got him in hot water with the Tea Party?


I say it's racist because the frothing wing of the Republican Party ignores, and in fact angrily rebukes, any attempt at using reason to find a workable solution. This means they have a hidden agenda and I believe that hidden agenda to be racist, it fits in with the English-only laws and so on.

guedita
10-19-2011, 10:34 AM
Question: should we enact a law to revoke the citizenship of all Americans who end up working in another country with a degree from a public university?

TomAz
10-19-2011, 10:45 AM
would that include the military?

guedita
10-19-2011, 10:52 AM
Hmmmmm. Pros and Cons on both sides of that.

kreutz2112
10-19-2011, 10:59 AM
Question: should we enact a law to revoke the citizenship of all Americans who end up working in another country with a degree from a public university?

No. Why would we do that?

Edit: and we don't revoke their citizenship because they go work in another country.

guedita
10-19-2011, 11:11 AM
The Mormons: good or bad at detecting sarcasm?

kreutz2112
10-19-2011, 11:21 AM
damn you.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-19-2011, 11:23 AM
Yeah. I guess it's more stupid to assume that the children who obtain a college education as a result of this bill aren't likely to be interested in becoming citizens. It's definitely stupid to assume that they have no intention of using the education they've acquired to benefit themselves and the country they have been raised in. Because it isn't explicitly stated in a bill. Not that anyone in this thread ever said that it was stated in a bill to begin with. But go on thinking that.

Finally...you get it!

Yes it is ill advised to assume anything when free will of another human is involved. I know many people who would take advantage of a subsidized education and take their skills back home to benefit themselves and their home country.

While no one actually did say it was in the bill (because it's not) it was rather aggressively implied.

When I said that it was illegal to hire undocumented aliens.

The response I got was that I missed the qualifying part.

When I then asked which part of the bill it was in, you quoted and bold typed a portion of Greghead's post which, as you know, couldn't possibly be in the bill.

At that point it would have been perfectly acceptable for any of you to admit that:
A) You hadn't actually read the bill.
B) The stipulation didn't actually exist within the body of this bill, but it is contained within a separate bill upon which this one piggybacks.

At that point, this discussion would have been over and I would not have had to ask once again for the section of the bill.

All I wanted was to be informed about the subject I was discussing. At no point had I done anything worthy of attack.

As I said in my last post Io knowing now, no thanks to any of you the circumstances surrounding this bill, it has my full support.

Stickjohn
10-19-2011, 11:25 AM
go read post #11 in this thread before you say anything more

guedita
10-19-2011, 11:26 AM
You know a bunch of current illegal aliens who were raised in this country attending public schools that are just frothing at the mouth for an opportunity to go to college so that they can return to their country of birth, a country that they haven't been living in for a good many years, to benefit that country?

Give me their names and I'll give them a call.

And, it was never aggressively implied. Sorry for not bolding the oh-so-important word: IF. I failed to understand that you might not be intelligent enough to understand how to participate in a discussion based around a hypothetical scenario.

guedita
10-19-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm sorry; I guess it was aggressively implied by weekly mix. But his link went straight to the text of the bill that showed you exactly what you were looking for; so again, not sure why you kept asking for more reassurance.

nathanfairchild
10-19-2011, 11:39 AM
we should take a poll

PlayaDelWes
10-19-2011, 11:46 AM
Question: should we enact a law to revoke the citizenship of all Americans who end up working in another country with a degree from a public university?

Now you got it. What a great way to eliminate $37 Billion in IRS tax revenue.

guedita
10-19-2011, 12:06 PM
Lakers Fans: Able or unable to detect sarcasm?

PlayaDelWes
10-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Back peddling from being ironic to claiming sarcasm.

guedita
10-19-2011, 12:32 PM
What?

Starraven
10-19-2011, 12:38 PM
sar·casm  [sahr-kaz-uhm]
noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

jackstraw94086
10-19-2011, 12:46 PM
I say it's racist because the frothing wing of the Republican Party ignores, and in fact angrily rebukes, any attempt at using reason to find a workable solution. This means they have a hidden agenda and I believe that hidden agenda to be racist, it fits in with the English-only laws and so on.

Thought experiment: What would the republican response be to the situation if it were German or Norwegian people trying to illegally cross the borders.

PotVsKtl
10-19-2011, 12:48 PM
Don't be absurd, Republicans don't believe in plate tectonics.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-19-2011, 01:24 PM
go read post #11 in this thread before you say anything more

That is a link to an article which paraphrases the text of an existing bill. It is not a section of or a direct quote from AB 131, which is what I asked for.


I'm sorry; I guess it was aggressively implied by weekly mix. But his link went straight to the text of the bill that showed you exactly what you were looking for; so again, not sure why you kept asking for more reassurance.


Thank you for seeing what I saw in Weekly's post. As for the link in Weekly's post, I am still just getting a picture of his avi. That is why I kept asking.

I'm sorry if I frustrated you, but I felt I was being given the runaround and I couldn't figure out why it was so hard to just point me in the right direction so I could be informed enough to participate intelligently in the conversation. For some reason, my browser still will not allow me to view the corrected link as you and others can.

As I said before, I have no problem with this new bill.

While I don't know a lot of new high school graduates who want in on this, there are plenty of older adults around here who would like nothing more than to receive a good and cheap secondary education and take their new skill set home to make a killing.

TomAz
10-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Thought experiment: What would the republican response be to the situation if it were German or Norwegian people trying to illegally cross the borders.

I don't think the sherriff would be leading massive raids and demanding to see the IDs of the people on the streets of New Oslo.

PotVsKtl
10-19-2011, 01:29 PM
Maybe if Mexicans made better beer we could all get past this.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-19-2011, 01:44 PM
Thought experiment: What would the republican response be to the situation if it were German or Norwegian people trying to illegally cross the borders.

As long as it's not the Dutch, I'm cool with it.

I believe in both tectonic plates and dinosaurs.

guedita
10-19-2011, 03:00 PM
weekly, can you up a link that will point Cheddar in the right direction? He still can't see what the rest of get when we click on your link. Weird.

TomAz
10-19-2011, 03:03 PM
cheddar what browser are you using?

guedita
10-19-2011, 03:10 PM
Maybe I should screen cap what I see when I click the link.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-19-2011, 03:53 PM
I found everything I need. Took me a while poking around in some very boring political sites but it's all good now.

For future reference, AB540 is the current law which allows undocumented aliens on the path to citizenship to be exempt from out of state tuition fees.

Section 68130.5.(a)(4) to be exact.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-19-2011, 03:54 PM
cheddar what browser are you using?


I don't want to say...it's embarrassing.

Stickjohn
10-19-2011, 07:53 PM
Actually AB 540 was an Assembly Bill that passed 10 years ago. Section 68130.5 is the relevant part of the CA Education Code (or law.) The "path to citizenship" thing is that old.

weeklymix
10-19-2011, 08:25 PM
Yeah that is not on the link I gave.

Cheddar's Cousin
10-20-2011, 05:36 AM
Actually AB 540 was an Assembly Bill that passed 10 years ago. Section 68130.5 is the relevant part of the CA Education Code (or law.) The "path to citizenship" thing is that old.


That's why I called it the current law.

Stickjohn
10-20-2011, 09:56 AM
_TI8xqLl_-w

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 12:35 PM
You know a bunch of current illegal aliens who were raised in this country attending public schools that are just frothing at the mouth for an opportunity to go to college so that they can return to their country of birth, a country that they haven't been living in for a good many years, to benefit that country?

Give me their names and I'll give them a call.

And, it was never aggressively implied. Sorry for not bolding the oh-so-important word: IF. I failed to understand that you might not be intelligent enough to understand how to participate in a discussion based around a hypothetical scenario.
One thing is for certain though, it doesn't take an idiot to see what a relentless cunt you are... it get's really old Cara, seriously.

TomAz
10-20-2011, 12:43 PM
your bark'ing up the wrong tree, bdawl.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 12:49 PM
your bark'ing up the wrong tree, bdawl.
Trust me, if I could lift my leg and piss on it instead, I'd be all over that. Don't invalidate my feelings, Mr. Az.

guedita
10-20-2011, 01:39 PM
Gets.


And thank you for your support.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 02:06 PM
Gets.

And thank you for your support.
You're very welcome. It was done out of pity for the fact that someone as intelligent as yourself, gets stuck with a self appointed position to pick apart posts on a fucking message board after all that time spent in college.
But, wait...there's more!


weekly, can you up a link that will point Cheddar in the right direction? He still can't see what the rest of get when we click on your link. Weird.
The rest of what, guedita?

weeklymix
10-20-2011, 02:10 PM
I don't negotiate with terrorists.

TomAz
10-20-2011, 02:13 PM
Trust me, if I could lift my leg and piss on it instead, I'd be all over that. Don't invalidate my feelings, Mr. Az.

I don't know why I'm even engaging you in this: but "you're a cunt" is not a feeling, it's a slur.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 02:18 PM
I don't know why I'm even engaging you in this: but "you're a cunt" is not a feeling, it's a slur.
But, it comes from the bottom of my heart, the pit of my feelings. If it had been a slur, it would have come out of my mouth with a scent of tequila as a chaser.

TomAz
10-20-2011, 02:20 PM
I am not kidding here: regardless of the purity of your motives, it is still not a feeling, it is still a slur.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 02:33 PM
I am not kidding here: regardless of the purity of your motives, it is still not a feeling, it is still a slur.
brb... ;)-





Are you theriouth, Tom? Thinth wiiiiiin hath anything I pothted had p-p-fuck it...p-p-purity?

guedita
10-20-2011, 02:36 PM
You can't "get stuck" in a position that is "self-appointed."

Get the fuck over whatever sort of attempted chivalry you're gunning for here. You ain't no linguistic Robinhood. It's not my fucking fault that after multiple, kind attempts to point out to Cheddar that the word *if* would qualitatively alter the ability to hire them, the people this bill is intended for, mockery occurred.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 02:39 PM
brb... ;)-





Are you theriouth, Tom? Thinth wiiiiiin hath anything I pothted had p-p-fuck it...p-p-purity?
Come to think of it, when has anything I posted had clarity? Huh, huh, huh???

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 02:56 PM
You can't "get stuck" in a position that is "self-appointed."

Get the fuck over whatever sort of attempted chivalry you're gunning for here. You ain't no linguistic Robinhood. It's not my fucking fault that after multiple, kind attempts to point out to Cheddar that the word *if* would qualitatively alter the ability to hire them, the people this bill is intended for, mockery occurred.
I never expected to see the day where calling someone a "Cunt" would be considered chivalrous... Then again, when you consider calling someone, "stupid" in one of your "multiple, kind attempts to point something out," it becomes obvious that your self appointed position should be revoked due to the fact that IF you had clarified that to begin with, I wouldn't have gotten stuck watching you be a cunt through 1/2 the thread.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 03:01 PM
An even bigger question lies behind this rather large void between my posts and my signature... WTF? Should I use it as a place to perhaps advertise jobs available to those immigrants with college degrees?

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 03:03 PM
WHY
IS
THIS
HAPPENING?

TomAz
10-20-2011, 03:04 PM
http://endtimesrevelations.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/afety-agency-raised-severity-rating-of-the-countrys-nuclear-crisis-from-level-4-to-level-5-on-a-7-level-international-scale_-screenshot-from-ap-video-mar_18-2011.jpg

SoulDischarge
10-20-2011, 03:15 PM
Look, BROKENDOLL is doing things and people are paying attention against their better judgement again. Let's throw on a pot of tea.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Look, BROKENDOLL is doing things and people are paying attention against their better judgement again. Let's throw on a pot of tea.
Or, a vat of Kool-Aid... I'll throw in some crumpets and Saltines, how's that?

Stickjohn
10-20-2011, 03:19 PM
Does this make you feel better? From WSJ:

Foreigners' Sweetener: Buy House, Get a Visa (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203752604576641421449460968.html?m od=googlenews_wsj)


The reeling housing market has come to this: To shore it up, two Senators are preparing to introduce a bipartisan bill Thursday that would give residence visas to foreigners who spend at least $500,000 to buy houses in the U.S.

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 03:29 PM
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/1BROKENDOLL/GOOGLE%20IMAGES%20AND%20CLIPART/sheepcollege.jpg

kreutz2112
10-20-2011, 03:30 PM
Regardless of Caras level of cuntiness cheddar still needs to know what weeklys link said.

jackstraw94086
10-20-2011, 03:59 PM
Does this make you feel better? From WSJ:

Foreigners' Sweetener: Buy House, Get a Visa (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203752604576641421449460968.html?m od=googlenews_wsj)

Now that's the sort we want around here.

I'dDoItAllAgain
10-20-2011, 04:03 PM
Would you want to live in Mexico or any other country where speaking your mind may mean your immediate and extended families end up decapitated? You'd probably risk life and limb for a better tomorrow as opposed to life under fear of the cartel or any other crime syndicate or corrupt government.
What...


I'd say the majority of illegal aliens are unskilled, would you really disagree with that statement?
... the FUCK?

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 04:22 PM
Does this make you feel better? From WSJ:

Foreigners' Sweetener: Buy House, Get a Visa (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203752604576641421449460968.html?m od=googlenews_wsj)

http://cs.wsj.net/community/content/images/misc/members/defaultuser.50x50.png (http://online.wsj.com/community/4c62d70c-705a-43bb-ac66-9a28093db724)
"When you run out of other peoples money, find more other people?"

BROKENDOLL
10-20-2011, 04:37 PM
Regardless of Caras level of cuntiness cheddar still needs to know what weeklys link said.

weekly's.

Oh, God, no...

weeklymix
10-20-2011, 05:05 PM
Guedita exists solely to spread misinformation about my ideas and stances on politics and life. I'm sick of it. I will not engage with terrorists. I do not negotiate with terrorists.